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> One Church, Vatican document on Ecumenism
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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 18-Jun-2008, 03:29 PM)
Now that we have briefly set out the conditions for ecumenical action and the principles by which it is to be directed, we look with confidence to the future. This Sacred Council exhorts the faithful to refrain from superficiality and imprudent zeal, which can hinder real progress toward unity.

My post does not contain superficiality and imprudent zeal. I state a fact that is real. To love your brother does mean that you are honest with them regarding false behavior. If I were in your company and commiting mortal sin, do you mean to tell me that you would not say a word, considering that you were my true friend? That type of behavior does not exemplify love nor does it correct my falsehood. Nor does it correct the falsehood of the protestants to let them go on thinking they consume a valid Eucharist.
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Dogshirt 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 08:06 PM
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Question # 1. What is offensive about the fact that the protestant communion is not the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ?

Question #2. What is unfounded about the assertion from the Vatican that the protestant communion is invalid?

Question #3 How do you presume yourself to be a higher authority than the Vatican regarding the validity of the protestant communion?



Who is the vatican to assume themself ANY sort of an authority? The catholic church is not the church of the christ, but is a church of man. NO man, not even the pope can know the mind of the Creator.
YOU, my friend are FAR and away TOO full of yourself!
And NO, I am NOT a protestant, I am of a non-christian church.


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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 08:11 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Jun-2008, 02:04 PM)



I suspect we have someone who is either a priest or has been one in the past. Could be wrong though. You are right about the "strong willed" people! I am one!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch, I am not an ordained Priest, you and I both are Priest (sacramentally by Baptism and Holy Matrimony) conferred upon us through the annointing, as "we are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart". I at one time considered and was accepted to the seminary for formation to the Priesthood then changed my course to Matrimony. I have seven children and 6 grandchildren. Your function and mine as head of the extended church meaning the home is to direct our families and ourselves to the Sacraments and the Catechism as one of our Priestly obligations.

Slainte,

Royal O'siodhachain
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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 18-Jun-2008, 08:06 PM)



Who is the vatican to assume themself ANY sort of an authority? The catholic church is not the church of the christ, but is a church of man. NO man, not even the pope can know the mind of the Creator.
YOU, my friend are FAR and away TOO full of yourself!
And NO, I am NOT a protestant, I am of a non-christian church.

Quite the contrary, the protestant communities are appointed by vote within the community. The Pope is appointed by God through Christ Our Lord ascending from Saint Peter. If you have a dictionary, look up the definition of Catholic, this is how Webster's dictionary defines the Catholic church as receiving authority from God through Christ and the Apostles, the Pope being the successor to Saint Peter.
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Dogshirt 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 08:22 PM
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The catholic church was started by Emporer Constantine and the office of pope was an appointment, christ didn't even enter the picture. AND having 2-3 popes at one time would seem that he doen't have a hand in it.
I strongly suggest you read your own church's history and not just "cherry pick" those tidbits you choose to belive.


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Patch 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE (royalosiodhachain @ 18-Jun-2008, 02:11 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Jun-2008, 02:04 PM)



I suspect we have someone who is either a priest or has been one in the past.  Could be wrong though.  You are right about the "strong willed" people!  I am one!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch, I am not an ordained Priest, you and I both are Priest (sacramentally by Baptism and Holy Matrimony) conferred upon us through the annointing, as "we are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart". I at one time considered and was accepted to the seminary for formation to the Priesthood then changed my course to Matrimony. I have seven children and 6 grandchildren. Your function and mine as head of the extended church meaning the home is to direct our families and ourselves to the Sacraments and the Catechism as one of our Priestly obligations.

Slainte,

Royal O'siodhachain

Your belief in and knowledge of Catholicism appears to go way beyond mine. I support your right to believe as you do but I do not think I will be changing, thank you. I will maintain my tolerance of most other religions.

Slàinte,    

Patch    



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subhuman 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 08:34 PM
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Question # 1. What is offensive about the fact that the protestant communion is not the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ?

For starters, the assumption that the Catholic Church's Communion is.
I have yet to see definitive proof of this fact.

QUOTE
Question #2. What is unfounded about the assertion from the Vatican that the protestant communion is invalid?

It's a half-truth that fails to also mention that their own communion is invalid.

QUOTE
Question #3 How do you presume yourself to be a higher authority than the Vatican regarding the validity of the protestant communion?


How does the Vatican presume to be a higher authority than the Protestant churches regarding Protestant Communion?

QUOTE
I state a fact that is real.

No, so far all you've stated are opinions and beliefs.

Anyway, enough feeding the troll. Go crawl back under your bridge and wallow in the stream of ignorance.


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Patch 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 08:35 PM
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QUOTE (royalosiodhachain @ 18-Jun-2008, 02:11 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Jun-2008, 02:04 PM)



I suspect we have someone who is either a priest or has been one in the past.  Could be wrong though.  You are right about the "strong willed" people!  I am one!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch, I am not an ordained Priest, you and I both are Priest (sacramentally by Baptism and Holy Matrimony) conferred upon us through the annointing, as "we are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart". I at one time considered and was accepted to the seminary for formation to the Priesthood then changed my course to Matrimony. I have seven children and 6 grandchildren. Your function and mine as head of the extended church meaning the home is to direct our families and ourselves to the Sacraments and the Catechism as one of our Priestly obligations.

Slainte,

Royal O'siodhachain

I thought I detected some theological training.

Slàinte,    

Patch    
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Dogshirt 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 10:00 PM
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Anyway, enough feeding the troll. Go crawl back under your bridge and wallow in the stream of ignorance.



But baiting trolls is one of my favorite things! biggrin.gif


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Robert Phoenix 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 11:14 PM
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As a RC with a Master degree in Religious Education I'm really tempted to jump in on this one but I think that emotions are starting to run just a bit too high here. This topic is something that should be over in some Catholic forum or a interdenominational apologetics forum. Although there is nothing to deter it from being here (since this is the area in this forum were religions are discussed) what is the reasoning in bringing it up here in a celtic radio forum?
Unless I'm proven wrong I'm beginning to go with the troll theory.


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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 04:26 AM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Jun-2008, 01:21 PM)
I do not really understand where he is going. I grew up in a mixed religion family (Presbyterian and Catholic) and we got along just fine. There was a lot of light humor on both sides. Today there is material for a lot more. I restrict my humor to my own religion!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch, It is possible to disagree with a persons lifestyle and still get along with them, however, Pope Benedict XVI recently made a remarkable observation about getting along with others, "It is unreasonable to expect anyone to get along with others until they have addressed the personal conflict of unresolved sin in their lives" This means that those who do not get along have not gone to confession. Insofar as humor is concerned, humor is a method of avoiding reasonable discussion of a serious topic.

Slainte,

Royal O'siodhachain
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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 04:28 AM
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QUOTE (Robert Phoenix @ 18-Jun-2008, 11:14 PM)
As a RC with a Master degree in Religious Education I'm really tempted to jump in on this one but I think that emotions are starting to run just a bit too high here. This topic is something that should be over in some Catholic forum or a interdenominational apologetics forum. Although there is nothing to deter it from being here (since this is the area in this forum were religions are discussed) what is the reasoning in bringing it up here in a celtic radio forum?
Unless I'm proven wrong I'm beginning to go with the troll theory.

The reason for bringing it up here is because there is nowhere that enlightenment is unwarranted.
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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 04:32 AM
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QUOTE (subhuman @ 18-Jun-2008, 08:34 PM)
For starters, the assumption that the Catholic Church's Communion is.
I have yet to see definitive proof of this fact.


It's a half-truth that fails to also mention that their own communion is invalid.



How does the Vatican presume to be a higher authority than the Protestant churches regarding Protestant Communion?


No, so far all you've stated are opinions and beliefs.

Anyway, enough feeding the troll. Go crawl back under your bridge and wallow in the stream of ignorance.

Subhuman, My statements are derived directly from Vatican documents, I have not speculated anything here. The question is do you respect the authority of the Vatican, if not simply say so. As far as trolls are concerned, you may find one staring at you from a mirror.
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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 04:38 AM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Jun-2008, 08:35 PM)
QUOTE (royalosiodhachain @ 18-Jun-2008, 02:11 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Jun-2008, 02:04 PM)



I suspect we have someone who is either a priest or has been one in the past.  Could be wrong though.  You are right about the "strong willed" people!  I am one!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch, I am not an ordained Priest, you and I both are Priest (sacramentally by Baptism and Holy Matrimony) conferred upon us through the annointing, as "we are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart". I at one time considered and was accepted to the seminary for formation to the Priesthood then changed my course to Matrimony. I have seven children and 6 grandchildren. Your function and mine as head of the extended church meaning the home is to direct our families and ourselves to the Sacraments and the Catechism as one of our Priestly obligations.

Slainte,

Royal O'siodhachain

I thought I detected some theological training.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch, Yes theological training and 57 years of persecution and reception of Holy Communion and Penance and 20 years of catechesis and 15 years as Eucharistic Minister and 20 years working on ecuminism with protestants and I might add aiding in the conversion of a protestant minister and several other protestant participants. Converting from a protestant community to Catholic is not a painful process, rather it is pure joy in finding the truth and the Body and Blood of Christ. My aid was loving, kind and caring toward the protestants, I simply refuse to allow them to believe a farce and when they see the honesty of my intent, they convert.
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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 04:45 AM
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QUOTE (royalosiodhachain @ 19-Jun-2008, 04:32 AM)
QUOTE (subhuman @ 18-Jun-2008, 08:34 PM)
For starters, the assumption that the Catholic Church's Communion is.
I have yet to see definitive proof of this fact.


It's a half-truth that fails to also mention that their own communion is invalid.



How does the Vatican presume to be a higher authority than the Protestant churches regarding Protestant Communion?


No, so far all you've stated are opinions and beliefs.

Anyway, enough feeding the troll.  Go crawl back under your bridge and wallow in the stream of ignorance.

Subhuman, My statements are derived directly from Vatican documents, I have not speculated anything here. The question is do you respect the authority of the Vatican, if not simply say so. As far as trolls are concerned, you may find one staring at you from a mirror.

Subhuman, The Catholic communion is valid by historical fact in that Christ instituted the Sacrament and ordained St Peter and the Apostles to minister the Sacrament who ordained the Popes throughout the generations who ordained the Bishops and Priests. The protestants on the other hand historically established their communites lately beginning in the 15th century and without communion. Their presumed authority is invalid by reason of lacking a source. The Catholic church was established by Christ Himself. If your presumption is that the current Pope invented the Catholic church then will you explain the history of the Catholic church which historically dates directly to the birth of Christ?
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