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Camac
Posted: 09-May-2008, 08:12 AM
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LOA; If you wish go to Wikipedia for a fair overview of the War of 1812. There are also many other sites on the Web to refer to. One should never rely on just one source when reading History.

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Patch 
Posted: 09-May-2008, 11:26 AM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 09-May-2008, 01:46 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 09:48 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 07-May-2008, 02:42 PM)
QUOTE (Rebecca Ann @ 07-May-2008, 08:06 PM)
For the most part the War of 1812 is a forgotten war.† It is rarely taught in schools even in the states.† Infact it was during this war that Francis Scott Key wrote our National Anthem (The Star Spangled Banner).† It is a neat and most wonderful story.†
Rebecca

Rebecca Ann;

The ironic thing about your National Anthem is that it is sung to the tune of an old English Drinking song. Possibly the War is not taught in your schools is the fact on land with the exception of The Battle of New Orleans, Monrovia and a few other minor skirmishes the U.S. Army of the day was beaten. Your Navy on the other hand did a superb job.

Camac.

As I recall from the history I learned many years ago, the pirate Jeane LaFete (sp), his cannons and cannoneers really won the battle of New Orleans.

War is all about alliances.

Slŗinte,†††††

Patch


Patch;

Everything I have read about the Battle of New Orleans merely mentions LaFitte. He is more of a local Character than a National Hero. The main cause of the British defeat was that the Americans were barricade behind a raised pallisade and there was alot of open ground for the Brits to cross. At one point they almost made it but were thrown back by the heavy rifle and cannon fire from the U.S. It has been a while since I have read about the Battle so my memory is a little hazy. I'll do some more checking on Lafitte.


Camac.

As I recall (and I have an interest in Jackson's life) He had a small group of "regulars" and a ragged assortment of local's. He had no heavy armament as there was no practical way to bring that by land to New Orleans. The alliance with Jean LaFete provided the heavy armament and expert's to man the cannons. Jackson's men built the earthen defense (grudgingly) and provided the rifle fire.

Jackson was a very controversial man.

Slŗinte,†††††

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mainopsman 
Posted: 09-May-2008, 12:43 PM
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I grow up in the shadow of Fort McHenry, and a short distance from Patterson Hill, an artillery position for the defense of Baltimore. Today I live on land that is part of the site where the battle of North Point was fought. Both my son and I do living history re-enactments of the period. My son does British Artillery and I portray a citizen defender. What makes this thread interesting is the fact, even those who live here, know very little of the history of the war and what a major part both Baltimore and North Point played in it. It is sad that history takes a back seat to so many other subjects.

A number of Canadian re-enactment units come to take part in the Battle of North Point recreation each year. More then a few Canadian marching bands also come to Dundalk (my community) each year to march in the 4th of July Heritage parade (one of the largest in the US). We canít thank them enough for their interest and friendship.

God Bless both of our Nations!

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Camac
Posted: 09-May-2008, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (mainopsman @ 09-May-2008, 12:43 PM)
I grow up in the shadow of Fort McHenry, and a short distance from Patterson Hill, an artillery position for the defense of Baltimore. Today I live on land that is part of the site where the battle of North Point was fought. Both my son and I do living history re-enactments of the period. My son does British Artillery and I portray a citizen defender. What makes this thread interesting is the fact, even those who live here, know very little of the history of the war and what a major part both Baltimore and North Point played in it. It is sad that history takes a back seat to so many other subjects.

A number of Canadian re-enactment units come to take part in the Battle of North Point recreation each year. More then a few Canadian marching bands also come to Dundalk (my community) each year to march in the 4th of July Heritage parade (one of the largest in the US). We canít thank them enough for their interest and friendship.

God Bless both of our Nations!

JIM (mainopsman)

mainopsman;

It has only been in the last 10 to 15 years that the school ciriculum start teaching History again as a mandatory subject. So many of the younger generation in Canada know little or nothing of our History. There is an interesting book about the War of 1812 from the American perpective, "1812 The War that Forged a Nation" by Walter R. Borneman. I envy you being in a re-enactment group. I live with in an hours drive of the Niagara Peninsula where a great many battles were fought also just 15 minutes from Stoney Creek and Burlington. And Fort York (Toronto) is about 1/2 hour away. To any and all of my fellow posters I am more than willing to share any knowledge I have about this most interesting and mostly forgotten War.

As an aside: I find it ironic that a great number of American Militiamen refused to cross the border and Invade Canada. They would defend their own state and country but would not take part in agression. Good thing for us up here or we might have ended up as part of the States.
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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 09-May-2008, 07:25 PM
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Camac,
You are right about relying on more than one source when reading history.
Because history changes all the times because of new discoveries from scientists and archeologists. And of course from one historian to another some details in history can be interpreted differently thus written differently. So some times the accuracy can vary.

Patch,

This is what I found about Jean Laffitte and his connection to the war which is very little like Camac mentioned. Now with the net although maybe not as acurate as a book but all the same can be interesting. Here it is.

"Lafitte sometimes receives credit for helping defend Louisiana from the British in the War of 1812, with his nautical raids along the Gulf of Mexico."
"He commanded more than 3,000 men and provided them as troops for the Battle of New Orleans in 1815, greatly assisting Andrew Jackson in repulsing the British attack. The actual number he commanded was more likely a few dozen, although since they specialized in artillery their effect was substantial."
This pretty much it but again there maybe more in books.

Camac,
Here in Quebec,they teach a bit of history in elementary school and in some course in high school it is mandatory but they do not linger on general history or the world's history it is more like different subjects of history.In my time even then there was subjects that we did not even discussed about. One interested in more had to find it in the library school. It is sad that history and culture is not part of the schooll system.And yea it is thrue that the young generation just don't know enough about history, even me I have to admit that I read more about other countries history than mine in Quebec. I know about it I just don't cultivate it so I guess there are a few mishap in my memory of things as well because I haven't read about it enough to refresh my mind.

mainopsman,
I guess that history took a back seat because for one subject to be interesting one teacher,(in my humble opinion) has to make it interesting. And of course one must have the interest of it too. In Europe, history is tought at all school levels. They organize outings with the kids eveywhere museums, castles, mansions, palaces.
Everywhere we went we saw coaches with students and teachers explaining differents artifacts here and there and all kinds of stuff. That is interesting.
But here we rarely see outings like this. That why it is on the back seat, in my opinion.


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 09-May-2008, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 09-May-2008, 04:00 PM)
As an aside: I find it ironic that a great number of American Militiamen refused to cross the border and Invade Canada. They would defend their own state and country but would not take part in agression. Good thing for us up here or we might have ended up as part of the States.
Camac.

I think I know why Camac.

They were afraid of all the snow we had up here. Canada was referred to as the north pole. although maybe not anymore but in those days we were piled up to our eye balls in snow.Only the natives would know how to walk in that much snow and not to mentioned the bitter cold. biggrin.gif

Just tought to add a bit of humor here.Forgive me.
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Camac
Posted: 10-May-2008, 07:37 AM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 09-May-2008, 08:22 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 09-May-2008, 04:00 PM)
As an aside: I find it ironic that a great number of American Militiamen refused to cross the border and Invade Canada. They would defend their own state and country but would not take part in agression. Good thing for us up here or we might have ended up as part of the States.
Camac.

I think I know why Camac.

They were afraid of all the snow we had up here. Canada was referred to as the north pole. although maybe not anymore but in those days we were piled up to our eye balls in snow.Only the natives would know how to walk in that much snow and not to mentioned the bitter cold. biggrin.gif

Just tought to add a bit of humor here.Forgive me.

LOA;

There is a story of a regiment of Militia that marched from New Brunswick to Upper Canada (Ontario) in the dead of winter. I will have to look up the details but it was quite the feat. Also as you read about the War you will come across the "Militia Myth" this was started by the Reverend Strachan (Strawn) of York (Toronto) who claimed that it was the Canadian Militia who defeated the Americans. It is exactly that a myth. The war was fought and won in Canada by British Regulars and Indian allies like the Mohawk. The Canadian Militia was involved but not to the extent that the Reverend would have people believe.

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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 11-May-2008, 08:32 AM
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Hi Camac,
I will make sure to read this story.If I can find the time though.
But I take note of all you send me as information. I rest assure that when my dad will get better that I'll take more time for reading.
Keep the infos coming.

LOA
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Camac
Posted: 12-May-2008, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 11-May-2008, 08:32 AM)
Hi Camac,
I will make sure to read this story.If I can find the time though.
But I take note of all you send me as information. I rest assure that when my dad will get better that I'll take more time for reading.
Keep the infos coming.

LOA

LOA;
I notice some mis-information in my last posting. The 104th Regiment (New Brunswick)were British Regulars and in February 1813 set out to March to Montreal via Quebec City. This was in the dead of winter and the march was done in snowshoes. Upon arrival at Montreal they were immediately dispatch to march to Kingston. On 12 April 1813 the six hundred men of this Regiment arrived in Kingston a march of 700 miles in 52 day with out the loss of one man.There arrival thwarted the American plans to attack Kingston and caused them instead to attack York (Toronto). This is another story.


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 22-May-2008, 06:14 PM
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I've read a bit about the war and if I understand correctly this was one war that started for practically nothing and nobody won anything and the signing of the Treaty of Ghent was all about territorial concessions.

It is almost as if the Americans (no offense) had nothing to do better than to declare war because they found the Brits to slow to answer their demands!!!! I hope that I've misunderstood this because if so no wonder it is not spoken very much about.

LOA
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Camac
Posted: 23-May-2008, 11:05 AM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 22-May-2008, 06:14 PM)
I've read a bit about the war and if I understand correctly this was one war that started for practically nothing and nobody won anything and the signing of the Treaty of Ghent was all about territorial concessions.

It is almost as if the Americans (no offense) had nothing to do better than to declare war because they found the Brits to slow to answer their demands!!!! I hope that I've misunderstood this because if so no wonder it is not spoken very much about.

LOA

LOA;
You are partly correct with the slowness of negotiation but the main causes were the New Brunswick/Maine border (See Aroostook War & Jays Treaty)), American exspansion into the Ohio valley, the blockade of French ports , and of course impressment of possible American citizens into the Royal Navy. Most disputes were settle but the slow communications of the day gave the Hawks in the U.S. the excuse they wanted to declare war. Your right, no one won and everything returned to the Status Quo Ante Bellum. (Exactly before the War started) Impressment was settled, the blockade of Neutrals partially lifted and the N.B/Maine broder would be settle after long negotiations.

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DesertRose 
Posted: 23-May-2008, 03:59 PM
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I am so happy to see someone bring this subject up. As an 18thc re-enactor, I must admit I know very little about this war and there are very few re-enactors here in AZ, if any, who are interested in teaching about this period of history. I have only recently been reading a wee bit about it myself, trying to get the gist of it and why and you all explained very well.

I found the comment made by Camac to be very interesting and insightful. "War is about alliances." wow! I had never thought about that before. Thanks!

I look forward to reading more here on this long forgotten part of our North American history. smile.gif


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 23-May-2008, 06:33 PM
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Hi Celtic Rose,
Glad you joined us in our topic about this interesting if not popular war that we all try to understand.

If you happened to have some knowledge about it and want to share it with us please do so anytime.

LOA
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Camac
Posted: 23-May-2008, 06:33 PM
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As an aside to the war of 1812. The same year the Russians were establishing a colony at or near Fort Ross Northern California giving them control of all lands on the Pacific coast from the Aelutians south . They were also up to their arm pits with Napoleons Invasion.


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 23-May-2008, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 23-May-2008, 12:05 PM)
QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 22-May-2008, 06:14 PM)
I've read a bit about the war and if I understand correctly this was one war that started for practically nothing and nobody won anything and the signing of the Treaty of Ghent was all about territorial concessions.

It is almost as if the Americans (no offense) had nothing to do better than to declare war because they found the Brits to slow to answer their demands!!!! I hope that I've misunderstood this because if so no wonder it is not spoken very much about.

LOA

LOA;
You are partly correct with the slowness of negotiation but the main causes were the New Brunswick/Maine border (See Aroostook War & Jays Treaty)), American exspansion into the Ohio valley, the blockade of French ports , and of course impressment of possible American citizens into the Royal Navy. Most disputes were settle but the slow communications of the day gave the Hawks in the U.S. the excuse they wanted to declare war. Your right, no one won and everything returned to the Status Quo Ante Bellum. (Exactly before the War started) Impressment was settled, the blockade of Neutrals partially lifted and the N.B/Maine broder would be settle after long negotiations.

Camac.

Camac,

In all this is a sad war, because yes war is all about alliances like Patch mentioned in one of his posts.

I will make sure to go and get some books and read more even though on the net there is some very interesting information I found it incomplete.
Books are more detailled and prefer the reading.

P.S. Out of topic...did you look up your P.M.? If so give me some news.Thanks.

LOA
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