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> I'm Pro-Military So I Support Senator Obama (and I, Frank Schaeffer
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John Clements 
Posted: 18-Apr-2008, 05:19 PM
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Good stuff guys. Now for my thinking, simpleÖ as usual, itís not the military itís the White House and their subordinates (on both sides of the so called aisle) along with us, who are letting them away with it.


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Antwn 
Posted: 19-Apr-2008, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 18-Apr-2008, 09:47 AM)
Antwn, thanks for jumping in with very specifics. It is this type of discussion I was trying to illicit. I have placed my points in behind yours with **. The draft may not be the answer to a problem but a problem does exist within our nation in relation to our military. The military recognises a problem. The most ominous statement in the op-ed piece is the one by Adm. Stanley Arthur. I also think there is alot , that is part of this article that has not been addressed.

I don't want to go into a point by point endless series of rebuttal to rebuttal. We both made our points. I agree with Stoirmeil. Intangible ideologies are separate concerns and to my mind secondary ones. Soldiers have had to purchase their own body armor, their humvees and personel carriers have not been fully equipped. Amid all this mess, their pride may be all they have left.

Regarding Admiral Arthur's statement, I don't see it as being as problematic as you do and certainly not ominous. I do understand however how concerns are exaggerated to crises in this day and age where disaster visionaries abound and Chicken Littles are in every closet. Personally I thought the retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel's comment was far more provocative. The attempt to hogtie military minds with politically correct ideologies is far more damaging.

Frankly I'm less concerned about the level of pride in foot soldiers than I am about the concern that they fulfill somebody's arbitrary humility quotas. They certainly have enough to worry about in just doing their jobs!

As an aside UlsterScottNutt - I think you meant to use the word elicit to describe this discussion - illicit better describes the sex lives of Congressmen, evangelists and New York governors not to mention the accounting jugglers of Enron.


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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 21-Apr-2008, 03:59 PM
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As an aside UlsterScottNutt - I think you meant to use the word elicit to describe this discussion - illicit better describes

I meant to correct that before I sent it.

Bottom line, we lack leadership across the board and we are in disarray.


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Posted: 21-Apr-2008, 05:35 PM
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Patch 
Posted: 22-Apr-2008, 09:27 PM
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With a past military back ground I definitely support our troops! I also believe that one must "pick" ones battles. One should never start a fight that one has not a plan, or the b-lls to win. I say, "decide to do what it takes to win or get out! Unfortunately with NAFTA a lot of our military hardware is manufactured on foreign soil so it generates no tax $ to pay for the war. We are force to borrow from China and Japan to finance the war and many domestic programs.

When I was in the Military, It took care of it's own! That is no longer the case. The thousands of flag draped coffins are not the story. The news should cover the tens of thousands who have returned disabled, many so disabled as to require lifetime custodial care! The Govt. does not have the funds to adequately care for them. For some reason the Govt feels compelled to save people when there is NO possibility of any quality of life. I would not encourage any family member to consider a military career under those circumstances.

After 30 plus years as a Civil Servant I am convinced that Govt. drains the inteligence from elected officials!

Slŗinte,††††

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