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glaswegian 
Posted: 12-Mar-2009, 10:11 AM
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[/I]We don't really have the luxury of knowing that our lines trace back to Canada in pre-history, no matter what its' name.[I]

Yes your history is in europe. Just as I have family history elsewhere as opposed from scotland. But I dont look at that to see who I am because its not who I am.

being raised in a specific culture, means that culture makes you who you are and you are oblivious to it. However, a lot of people in america and canada when they reach a certain age (even first generation) simply all of a sudden say im scottish, and then they attempt to assume that identity, which is always false and misinterprated through stories, sterotypes and ignorance.

I think anyone who regards themselves as scottish, if they came to visit scotland they would realise how american and canadian they actually are.
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oldraven 
Posted: 12-Mar-2009, 11:34 AM
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QUOTE (glaswegian @ 12-Mar-2009, 08:06 AM)
I can understand those sentiments. The age of your country has no relevance on who you are. Just because your culture is younger does not mean that it is not who you are. And I am not disputing raven that you dont know who you are, I can see from your posts you well know.

Like most scots I will have roots in scanadanvia, germania, ireland etc. etc. But I am not scandanavian, german or irish.

I actually found out that I had a not a russian great uncle. I however would find it ridiculous and inconcievable to call myself russian.

However I think we both understand where each other is coming from. and I thank you for your posts.

Not a problem at all, Glaswegian. I love the topic, as I'm a bit of an anthropology nut. Not to say I know a great deal more than most, but I love to learn and discuss it.

And yes, I'm positive I'd stick out like a sore thumb in Scotland. A very awestruck and likely lost sore thumb. wink.gif And like you, I always claim to be what I honestly am. A Nova Scotian, or New Scot (you're stuck with that one), first, and a Canadian second.

My surname is Reeves, and so you would think that I identify most with the English, but I don't. It's because of the area I've lived most of my life, which celebrates the traditions that were brought here by the immigrant Scots ages ago, and stuck. And so I identify with my mother's side more, the MacLeans. Not wholy, as I do recognise my attachment to the English side (it's the only side I've traced back to England by a couple of generations), but the only lingering signs of old England that I grew up around are the language I speak and they type of government I live under. Besides, those of NS's history who boasted of their ties to England were never very much liked here, (look up the Newcomers vs. the Oldcomers of Nova Scotia), but the hard working Scottish farmers who came here always did seem more like kin to this boy who was born to the farmer's life.

My story is a bit different from the one you mention, though admittedly not common. I grew up thinking of myself as a Canadian. Then I moved to Alberta and really knew that I was a Nova Scotian. Then the desire to hear the music of my home, which I took for granted until I didn't hear it on the radio every day, brought me here. This kindled a fire for all think Celt in me, and so I started to see myself as a Scot. But the more I learned and the more I talked to others who really took it overboard, (there was a time when many people, perhaps most of the regulars, typed in a fake brogue), the more I realised that I was playing at a fantasy. I now am simply a New Scot again, as I always have been. It's not common because most people don't want to let go of their fantasy.

My point is to not get so frustrated with the people who haven't stepped back and seen the bigger picture of who they really are, and who they pretend they are. The Brigadoons. They romanticise the idea of being a Scot, if only the holywood version, and use it as an escape. It's false, but they come by it honestly. wink.gif


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Caw

"I am a Canadian by birth, but I am a Highlander by blood and feel under an obligation to do all I can for the sake of the Highlanders and their literature.... I have never yet spoken a word of English to any of my children. They can speak as much English as they like to others, but when they talk to me they have to talk in Gaelic."

-Alexander Maclean Sinclair of Goshen (protector of Gaelic Culture)

We need more Stan Rogers.

jams
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oldraven 
Posted: 12-Mar-2009, 11:37 AM
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oops. *fire for all that is Celt in me.*
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Camac
Posted: 13-Mar-2009, 07:48 AM
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oldraven;

I understand you completely but I disagree with your statement that your are a Nova Scotian then a Canadian. There is to much of that type of sectarianism in Canada and it leads to far to much talk of seperation. It is my stance that we are Canadian first then whatever Province we happen to hale from. I see myself as a Canadian then an Ontarian and after that a Torontonian of Scottish birth. I have visited and worked in 32 different countries and when ask where I am from I say Canada, not Ontario.


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oldraven 
Posted: 13-Mar-2009, 09:42 AM
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I'll tell you why. I have more in common with, and act more like, Nova Scotians on the whole, than I do with Canadians on the whole. And seeing NS get put on the back burner EVERY time an issue or opportunity for Canada comes along since Confederation, (did you know that Halifax was supposed to be the Capital of Canada, the country that was Howe's dream, but MacDonald and another founding father from Ontario, who's name I don't remember, came in and stole the show. Also, there was a gathering of leaders going on in PEI, to form a Maritime Union, but Central Canadian Leaders literally CRASHED the party, which stopped it from happening.), makes me root for the home team. It's not that I don't feel like a Canadian, or I don't tell people I'm Canadian. I just usually say Nova Scotia, one of Canada's maritime provinces.

It's not as though I could take or leave Canada like so many in Alberta, Quebec, and understandably Newfoundland can. I just know that calling myself Nova Scotian tells more about myself than simply saying Canadian.

I also think it's time the Maritimes stopped taking the back seat in politics, and started getting selfish. Every other province in Canada acts this way, and it's high time we did. If we had United all those years ago, and had told MacDonald to take a hike, we would be in a lot better shape. Do you know that regional development organisations were created for the Maritime provinces to help boost our local economies that were all but non-existent? Now every area code in Canada has one, including inside the city of Toronto. Imaging Toronto needing regional development. I just don't relate to all of Canada. It doesn't mean I don't love the Country any less.


Wow, this is way off topic.
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oldraven 
Posted: 13-Mar-2009, 09:45 AM
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*imaging=imagine*
*It doesn't mean I love the Country any less.*
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Camac
Posted: 13-Mar-2009, 10:07 AM
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oldraven;

Yeah it is getting way off topic. To get back to the Scots culture in Can. and the US. if you get the opportunity read "An Unstoppable Force" (The Scottish Exodus to Canada) by Lucille H. Camprey. For a minority (15% of the population) out numbered by the English and Irish they did pretty good.


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Camac
Posted: 30-Mar-2009, 10:00 AM
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glaswegian;

Methinks young man I owe you somewhat of an apology. I must admit when first reading your comments on what is a Scot I was really perturbed that you were insinuating that I was not a Scot. I have done a lot of thinking on this of late and I am a Scot but I am not Scottish. I was born there of Scottish parents but I was raised a Canadian and it was just recently with the posting on U-Tube of the insulting Fox News programme with Greg Gutfeld slammed that fact in my face. I am proud of and Love my Scottish Heritage but I am after all is said and done a Canadian through and through. This is my Home not Scotland. My Daughters are Canadian and although I have many many relatives in Scotland I have only blood in common with them not culture or outlook. It took me years to find myn lost Family in Dundee and I love them dearly having visited and met them but they have their lives and I have mine and really, " nary the twixt shall meet."



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glaswegian 
Posted: 30-Mar-2009, 12:34 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 30-Mar-2009, 10:00 AM)
glaswegian;

Methinks young man I owe you somewhat of an apology. I must admit when first reading your comments on what is a Scot I was really perturbed that you were insinuating that I was not a Scot. I have done a lot of thinking on this of late and I am a Scot but I am not Scottish. I was born there of Scottish parents but I was raised a Canadian and it was just recently with the posting on U-Tube of the insulting Fox News programme with Greg Gutfeld slammed that fact in my face. I am proud of and Love my Scottish Heritage but I am after all is said and done a Canadian through and through. This is my Home not Scotland. My Daughters are Canadian and although I have many many relatives in Scotland I have only blood in common with them not culture or outlook. It took me years to find myn lost Family in Dundee and I love them dearly having visited and met them but they have their lives and I have mine and really, " nary the twixt shall meet."



Camac.

No apologies are needed Camac My father is irish and as a result I have had to think long and hard what my identity is. I have always been interested in irish culture, history etc and I have lived there for a number of years. But the fact is that when I look at myself and define whop I am I am not irish in any sense I am scottish.

However please dont apologize, there is no need for apologies. I think it is good to live out your life with clear perceptions on your own identity and be proud of who you are

cheers
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