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Robert Phoenix 
Posted: 24-Mar-2008, 11:19 PM
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Just my own input but the whole thing seems to be just a matter of technicalities. It would probably be better if most Americans-rather than saying they are Irish-Americans or Italian-Americans, etc which does technically imply a legal duel citizenship-could simply state they are Americans of Irish (or what ever nationality) descent. Some people may not even want to make that distinction or may not think it is that big of a deal. Some use their nationality as a good reason to have a holiday and get drunk-in our town that would be Italiano days which explains the german polka band providing the music.
Also I think we Americans are starting to get a bit bored with our own culture (I know I am) with the same stores, buildings, sporting events, etc in every town and seek to find something unique in the customs and traditions of our ancestors. It gives a sense of our own identity that seperates us from the bland world of shopping malls and Walmarts that make evey town in the U.S. look just like the one you just came from. May be we just need a new label for us who feel we have no identification with a land or culture but are so absorbed by another that any outsider would have a difficult time telling the difference. Something a bit better than "insert culture wannabes"

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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 25-Mar-2008, 09:10 AM
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QUOTE (Robert Phoenix @ 24-Mar-2008, 11:19 PM)

Also I think we Americans are starting to get a bit bored with our own culture (I know I am) with the same stores, buildings, sporting events, etc in every town and seek to find something unique in the customs and traditions of our ancestors. It gives a sense of our own identity that seperates us from the bland world of shopping malls and Walmarts that make evey town in the U.S. look just like the one you just came from. May be we just need a new label for us who feel we have no identification with a land or culture but are so absorbed by another that any outsider would have a difficult time telling the difference. Something a bit better than "insert culture wannabes"

On the lighter side please see my tag line

So true, I am not drawn to malls, chain restaurants, latest fads and really do not like the homogenized pop culture we are becoming.

With regards to being Irish or Scottish, you need to take it in context. Some folks like to live this " identity *". That it should tick other people off, or offend and irritate the actual peoples they emulate is sad. What does it take away from the actual peoples? Is it because they are usurpers? Where is the resentment coming from? I didn't read the article that started this thread but wonder at the cause of the "pissed off'edness".

I guess my viewpoint comes from the fact that anyone can be an American in the USA. I guess you really can't be "Irish or Scottish" just by moving there.

*Identity, and then were are they getting their definition of the identity they choose to emulate? Is it romanticised, is it current, is it historical, ethnic, national, fantasy?


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oldraven 
Posted: 25-Mar-2008, 09:42 AM
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Oops. I had you confused with another new member who moved here when they were a child, from Scotland. My mistake.


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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 26-Mar-2008, 01:31 PM
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Ok, read the article http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/ and the first 102 comments.

No big deal, Just goes to show there are all kinds of people in Ireland and the US.

Though I would add , Stay in school, pay attention to your studies and learn your history. For everything comes from something.

All opinions are based on your knowledge, so be careful when you show your ignorance.
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scotborn 
Posted: 26-Mar-2008, 05:07 PM
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are you refering tome ulsternutt. ?


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AShruleEgan 
Posted: 26-Mar-2008, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 26-Mar-2008, 01:31 PM)
Ok, read the article http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/ and the first 102 comments.

No big deal, Just goes to show there are all kinds of people in Ireland and the US.

Though I would add , Stay in school, pay attention to your studies and learn your history. For everything comes from something.

All opinions are based on your knowledge, so be careful when you show your ignorance.

Fred, I read that article and it's sad that the author (Tim Egan, no relation to me), didn't do his homework. If he truly knew about Irish history, he certainly would have known that the famine of 1845-1850, wasn't due to the blight of the potato. The potato happened to be the food staple for the irish but it was the forced genocide by the English that killed many Irish and gave the Irish a reason to leave their home land. Food was plenty in Ireland during that time but it was all confiscated by the English troops and sent back to England. Only those who were loyal to England, were allowed to have a reasonable life. England has tried to cover this up for years and has destroyed all records of it but the Irish have uncovered many documents to prove other wise.

Butte, Montana was just one of many hundreds of towns and cities that took advantage of the Irish. In the 1800s, the Irish were looked upon as the same level as black slaves. Even after the Civil War, The Irish and Blacks, competed for the same jobs. Hard work and very little pay. Eventually, the Irish joined together and created construction companies and many other industries that brought them wealth and respect.

As for the N.Y. Times article, I found it pretty much idle talk and very little imagination and research. Just a space filler.

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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 26-Mar-2008, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (scotborn @ 26-Mar-2008, 05:07 PM)
are you refering tome ulsternutt. ?

scotborn, heck no, you are one of the more informed and articulate of the group. I actually am not saying that to anyone in particlar but made more of a statement about what opinions are. I for one am very opinionated and am quite sure I show some ignorance on some subject matters. I'm actually not quite sure that ignorance is the word I want to convey. I want a more positive word to explain the lack of knowledge. Its just truly uninformed opinions with no background or foundation that are irksome.
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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 26-Mar-2008, 09:13 PM
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QUOTE (A Shrule Egan @ 26-Mar-2008, 06:58 PM)
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 26-Mar-2008, 01:31 PM)
Ok, read the article http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/ and the first 102 comments.

No big deal, Just goes to show there are all kinds of people in Ireland and the US.

Though I would add , Stay in school, pay attention to your studies and learn your history. For everything comes from something.

All opinions are based on your knowledge, so be careful when you show your ignorance.

Fred, I read that article and it's sad that the author (Tim Egan, no relation to me), didn't do his homework. If he truly knew about Irish history, he certainly would have known that the famine of 1845-1850, wasn't due to the blight of the potato. The potato happened to be the food staple for the irish but it was the forced genocide by the English that killed many Irish and gave the Irish a reason to leave their home land. Food was plenty in Ireland during that time but it was all confiscated by the English troops and sent back to England. Only those who were loyal to England, were allowed to have a reasonable life. England has tried to cover this up for years and has destroyed all records of it but the Irish have uncovered many documents to prove other wise.

Butte, Montana was just one of many hundreds of towns and cities that took advantage of the Irish. In the 1800s, the Irish were looked upon as the same level as black slaves. Even after the Civil War, The Irish and Blacks, competed for the same jobs. Hard work and very little pay. Eventually, the Irish joined together and created construction companies and many other industries that brought them wealth and respect.

As for the N.Y. Times article, I found it pretty much idle talk and very little imagination and research. Just a space filler.

I think the article is far less interesting and telling than the comments
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scotborn 
Posted: 27-Mar-2008, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 26-Mar-2008, 07:50 PM)
scotborn, heck no, you are one of the more informed and articulate of the group. I actually am not saying that to anyone in particlar but made more of a statement about what opinions are. I for one am very opinionated and am quite sure I show some ignorance on some subject matters. I'm actually not quite sure that ignorance is the word I want to convey. I want a more positive word to explain the lack of knowledge. Its just truly uninformed opinions with no background or foundation that are irksome.

apologies ulster
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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 27-Mar-2008, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE (scotborn @ 27-Mar-2008, 10:25 AM)
apologies ulster

scotborn, No need for an apology , you just asked a question. It is me who apologizes for leaving my comments too vaque and ill directed.

UlsterScotNutt
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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 27-Mar-2008, 10:46 AM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 26-Mar-2008, 09:13 PM)
QUOTE (A Shrule Egan @ 26-Mar-2008, 06:58 PM)
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 26-Mar-2008, 01:31 PM)
Ok, read the article http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/ and the first 102 comments.

No big deal, Just goes to show there are all kinds of people in Ireland and the US.

Though I would add , Stay in school, pay attention to your studies and learn your history. For everything comes from something.

All opinions are based on your knowledge, so be careful when you show your ignorance.

Fred, I read that article and it's sad that the author (Tim Egan, no relation to me), didn't do his homework. If he truly knew about Irish history, he certainly would have known that the famine of 1845-1850, wasn't due to the blight of the potato. The potato happened to be the food staple for the irish but it was the forced genocide by the English that killed many Irish and gave the Irish a reason to leave their home land. Food was plenty in Ireland during that time but it was all confiscated by the English troops and sent back to England. Only those who were loyal to England, were allowed to have a reasonable life. England has tried to cover this up for years and has destroyed all records of it but the Irish have uncovered many documents to prove other wise.

Butte, Montana was just one of many hundreds of towns and cities that took advantage of the Irish. In the 1800s, the Irish were looked upon as the same level as black slaves. Even after the Civil War, The Irish and Blacks, competed for the same jobs. Hard work and very little pay. Eventually, the Irish joined together and created construction companies and many other industries that brought them wealth and respect.

As for the N.Y. Times article, I found it pretty much idle talk and very little imagination and research. Just a space filler.

I think the article is far less interesting and telling than the comments

A Shrule Egan, I didn't mean to give such a short response to your comments, for they deserved more from me.
You are absolutely right about the history behind the popular culture we hear and read about and the starvation of millions being a manmade occurence.
My "no big deal" comment is really directed to the article in that it is filler with sentimentalities and is not a great discertation. It touches some softly and others its more of an irritation. I did read the first 102 comments and some are well said and others less on both camps.
We all come from different perspectives and relate differently to this article.
Thanks for listening.
UlsterScotNutt
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oldraven 
Posted: 27-Mar-2008, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 27-Mar-2008, 08:32 AM)
scotborn, No need for an apology , you just asked a question. It is me who apologizes for leaving my comments too vaque and ill directed.

UlsterScotNutt

A good way to avoid that would be to point out these ignorant comments. wink.gif "Some people in this room are wrong on a few counts." only serves to make people wonder what the heck you're talking about, and allows the ignorance to continue. In the Politics Forum, if you call someone out, call them out all the way. thumbs_up.gif If someone is wrong, tell them the difference, or they'll just keep on spreading the untruths. And yes, if it's me, I want to know. I've been off my game for a few weeks in here.
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oldraven 
Posted: 27-Mar-2008, 12:09 PM
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QUOTE (oldraven @ 27-Mar-2008, 09:17 AM)
In the Politics Forum, if you call someone out, call them out all the way.

Talk about being off my game. This is the World Showcase. I need a vacation. blink.gif
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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 27-Mar-2008, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE (oldraven @ 27-Mar-2008, 12:09 PM)
Talk about being off my game. This is the World Showcase. I need a vacation. blink.gif

oldraven, regardless of forum , your point is well taken.

My point about opinions is we base them on our knowledge of the subject and they are colored with our relationship to that knowledge. A person may be missing a piece of information that may completely change their opinion and that person could very well be me..
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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 28-Mar-2008, 06:48 PM
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For me who don't know nothing about my background because I was adopted I find this topic quite fascinating.

Regardless of what you may all think about either being American this or Canadian that or whatever...all of us here in the north or you in the USA. We are all coming from different nationality like it or not.

So, in my humble opinion one cannot call him or herself American Irish or American Scottish anymore than here the Quebeckers who wants to be recognize as a distinct society just because they speak french??? In my eyes it is pretending to be someone that your not. We are all on borrowed lands here. We came and we took. We did not ask permission.

And talking about Irish heritage as nothing to do with being Irish today.

Hope you don't mind a lady's opinion.Thank you.LOA


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