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DesertRose 
Posted: 05-Sep-2007, 09:55 PM
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Something I have been wanting to do for a long time is post about some historical figures in this forum. Time has not allowed but I will eventually get all who I personally enjoy reading about and share with you as well. Hope you enjoy.

Read about Robert the Bruce here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figu...obert_the.shtml


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McRoach 
Posted: 14-Sep-2008, 04:17 PM
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That was interesting to read about. Thanks for the link. I never realized that Robert the bruce helped England invade Scotland. Guess that's what I get for learning my scottish history from watching Mel Gibsons Braveheart. rolleyes.gif


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gandolf3339 
Posted: 20-Nov-2008, 12:28 PM
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McRoach,

Near the end of the movie "Bravehart" is when Robert the Bruce betrays him but then he turns and helps him to escape, I have always wondered if the Bruce actually helped him escape. So I guess I had better read this story.
Hopefully it will change my mind a little on Robert, I know he was no were near as bad as his father.
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Camac
Posted: 20-Nov-2008, 01:18 PM
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The only thing that was acurrate in Braveheart was the way Wallace was executed. The rest was a bunch of Hollywood crap.

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gandolf3339 
Posted: 21-Nov-2008, 02:08 PM
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This is from the BBC Historic Figures:

In May 1297, Wallace attacked the town of Lanark, killing the English sheriff and unrest quickly became full-blown rebellion. Men flocked to join Wallace and he began to drive the English out of Fife and Perthshire. In September 1297, Wallace defeated a much larger English force at the Battle of Stirling Bridge. This and subsequent military successes severely weakened the English hold on Scotland. Wallace then launched raids into England. In late 1297 or early 1298 he was knighted and appointed 'guardian of the kingdom' in the name of John Balliol, the deposed king of Scotland.

So the movie got a little more than his death correct, but the poetic lic. hollywood uses can really alter historic facts, but I have read that the Bruce sided with Edward I because of John Comyn and John Balliol(John Balliol was appointed by Edward I but denounced the English rule in Scotland). During all of this is when Robert rode with Edward I at Falkirk, but what I can not find is if Robert helped W.W. escape after the battle at Falkirk.


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Camac
Posted: 21-Nov-2008, 02:49 PM
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The Bruce up until 1304 when he finally came over to the Scottish Cause for good changed sides between England and Scotland more times than he changed his underwear. This was a common practice amongst the Scottish Gentry as they usually held lands and titles on both sides of the border and many had sworn fealty to Edward for those lands and titles.

There is little credible evidence to show that The Bruce was even at Falkirk in fact shortly after the Battle the English drove The Bruce off his English estate and burned it. Wallace was betrayed by one of his own compatriots a Scots knight named Sir John Menteith. This took place at a tavern outside of Glasgow and it is rumoured that the traitor turned a bannock (flat oat cake) over as a signal that Wallace was present.


In the movie the fact that the Battle of Stirling was fought on a bridge was ignored, at Falkirk the Irish did not change sides nor was Wallace wounded by an arrow. He escaped the Battle with about 300 of his followers at sunset and crossed the River Carron where he personally slew the last English Noble to die at the battle, a Sir Brian le Jay who pursued to closely, was unhorsed and killed by Wallace. Immediately upon crossing the river Wallaces' horse fell dead from the multiple wounds it had received.

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gandolf3339 
Posted: 22-Nov-2008, 11:46 AM
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Bruce's March to Bannockburn

Scots, wha hae wi' Wallace bled,
Scots, wham Bruce has aften led,
Welcome to your gory bed,
Or to victorie!

Now's the day, and now's the hour;
See the front o' battle lour;
See approach proud Edward's power --
Chains and slaverie!

Wha will be a traitor knave?
Wha can fill a coward's grave?
Wha sae base as be a slave?
Let him turn and flee!

Wha, for Scotland's king and law,
Freedom's sword will strongly draw,
Free-man stand, or free-man fa',
Let him follow me!

By oppression's woes and pains,
By your sons in servile chains,
We will drain our dearest veins,
But they shall be free!

Lay the proud usurpers low!
Tyrants fall in every foe!
Liberty's in every blow! --
Let us do or die!

by Robert Burns

I am still looking for any problems between Wallace and the Bruce.


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Camac
Posted: 22-Nov-2008, 11:53 AM
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Gandolf3339

If you wish there is another poem entitled "The Signal of the Bruce" I cant attached it but you will find it if you go to google.

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gandolf3339 
Posted: 22-Nov-2008, 12:03 PM
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I just found this on the Bruce Trust website:
Question to Robert the Bruce

You are often accused of betraying William Wallace - how do you answer this accusation ?

I was always a good and true friend to William - I respected his brave heart, his loyalty and his commitment. In truth - I always believed he followed the wrong man and cause but that was William's way and although I was unable to support him as well as history may think I should have - I would have done him no ill deed and in truth made every effort to protect him from his enemies. I would not have wished the horrific fate that befell him... on any man - least of all that brave soul and his death played its part in hardening my heart and resolve to bring Scotland out from under the influence of that cruel and vengeful heart... Edward I.
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gandolf3339 
Posted: 22-Nov-2008, 12:14 PM
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Thank you Camac,

THE SIGNAL OF THE BRUCE

"What news, what news, thou Carrick carle,
Sae lynart, leal, and true?
For weel I like thy hameart face,
Thy kindly e'e o' blue.

"A wand'rer lang frae freens and hame,
I seek my faither's ha',
And fain wad ken gin weel or wae,
Has been auld Scotia's fa'."

"There's dool and wae o'er Scotland wide"
(The carle said, sighing sair);
"Brave men in sorrow hang their heads,
And maidens smile nae mair.

"The vera bairns upon the green
Hae tint their daffin glee,
And mithers look on sweet wee babes,
Wi' dim and drumly e'e.

"For the wecht o' Southern tyranny
Lies heavy on the land;
While Freedom's fire has paled its licht,
And Hope's red cheek has wann'd.

"Oh that the Bruce once mair wad rise,
Our ain true hearted king!
Aye foremost in the face o' death,
Aye last to leave the ring.

"We a' hae dree'd the tyrant's weird,
we a' hae pree'd its ga';
And yearn to steep our wrangs in bluid,
Or for the richt to fa'.

"Ae glance but of his eagle e'e,
Ae flash but of his sword,
And babes unborn wad leap for joy
O'er liberty restored.

"Yestreen I dreamed a blessed dream-
I thought the Bruce was here,
Wi' twice ten thousand gallant blades,
Stern glittering round his spear.

"I thought the soul o' Wallace wight
Burned in ten thousand eyes,
While quivering banners heaved and fell
In a storm of battle cries.

"I thought I saw the bristling front
Of hostile armies met,
The clash of conflict wild and keen,
The greensward reeking wet.

"The bluidy gaps of death I saw,
The pallid rush of fear,
And 'Scotland, Scotland, has the day!'
Rang in my wak'ning ear."

"Thanks for thy dream, thy leal auld man,
God's help, it shall be true;
Lend me thy honest hand while I
My message tell to you.

"This morn at dawn, the Bruce I left
On Arran's stormy shore,
A lion fretting in the toils,
And all athirst for gore.

"Go forth my trusty Boyd, he said,
Try thou thy country's heart;
If true its beat, my rusted blade
Soon from its sheath shall start.

"And if, as by the rood I hope,
Thou learnest aught of cheer,
One blazing faggot on the cliff
Shall send thy message here.

. . . . . .

When day gaed doon ower Goatfell grim,
And darkness mantled a',
A kingly form strode to and fro,
On Brodick's Castle wa'.

And aye he gazed ayont the Frith,
Where blasts were roarin' snell,
And aft he leaned upon his sword,
Sad, muttering to himsel'.

"In vain, in vain,"at length he cried,
And hung his head in woe-
When, streaming far through storm and gloom,
He saw the beacon glow.

O'er many a wave the red light glanced,
O'er many a crest of foam,-
The sea-bird's wing seem'd stained wi' bluid
Above its ocean home.

With faulded hands the monarch knelt
Unto a mightier King
One moment, and the next his horn
Gart a' the echoes ring.

Swift, at the call a gallant band
Of Scotland's exiled brave
Came rushing, eager, to the tryst
Beside the lashing wave.

'For weal or woe,"outspoke the Bruce,
"I sail for Scotia's shore;
With God's good aid, and yours, brave hearts,
To win my crown once more.

"Here, in the face of Heaven, I draw
The sword that knows no sheath
Till Scotland stands erect and free,
Or I'm laid low in death."

Oh! weel micht England rue that nicht,
Sair cause had she to mourn,
For the licht that gleaned o'er the Frith sae red
Was the dawn of Bannockburn.


It does not list who this was written by if you know Camac please let us know.
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Camac
Posted: 22-Nov-2008, 12:49 PM
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Gandolf;

If memory serves me right it was originally a Ballad not a poem and as to the author, I sorry I don't know. A piece of trivia, you can see the Isle of Arran from the town I was born in, Troon, and the mountains form the profile of The Bruce in full armour laying down on his back resting.

Camac.

PS. I wouldn't take to heart everything that the BBC says about Scottish History. They are after all English (Sassenach)
               
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