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> The Gun Control Debate, Please keep 'em holstered
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scottish2 
Posted: 30-Aug-2003, 09:43 PM
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I agree fully Roisin-Teagan.

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Patch 
Posted: 01-May-2008, 09:29 AM
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"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient and the world will follow our lead into the future!" --- Adolf Hitler, 1935

This speaks for its self!

Slàinte,   

Patch
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Camac
Posted: 01-May-2008, 10:02 AM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 01-May-2008, 09:29 AM)
"This year will go down in history.  For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration.  Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient and the world will follow our lead into the future!"  --- Adolf Hitler, 1935

This speaks for its self!

Slàinte,   

Patch

Patch;

In that respect I agree with Herr Adolph. In my humble opinion there is absolutely no need for a private citizen to own a fire arm. The exception is Aboriginal Hunters.
As they use there rifles to provide food.


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John Clements 
Posted: 01-May-2008, 10:17 AM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 01-May-2008, 09:29 AM)
"This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient and the world will follow our lead into the future!" --- Adolf Hitler, 1935

This speaks for its self!

Slàinte,   

Patch

Frankly guys I happen to think that gun control, is more about collecting revenue and not having anything to fight for our right with, rather then randomly killing each other.
I’m sorry, but as long as there are “any” guns out there, I want one too.
JC


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Patch 
Posted: 01-May-2008, 04:35 PM
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Very good thought!!! We just had a drive by in a small neighboring community. It happened in a quiet neighborhood and the middle age woman was unarmed!

In my community a man my age committed suicide (?) by shooting himself two times (last night too)!

A lot of questions!

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Patch
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John Clements 
Posted: 01-May-2008, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 01-May-2008, 04:35 PM)
Very good thought!!!  We just had a drive by in a small neighboring community.  It happened in a quiet neighborhood and the middle age woman was unarmed!

In my community a man my age committed suicide (?) by shooting himself two times (last night too)!

A lot of questions!

Slàinte,   

Patch

He must have been a bad shot.
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Patch 
Posted: 01-May-2008, 08:02 PM
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His nephews wife told me tonight at the restaurant that the gentleman shot himself 3 times. The body was sent to a "criminal forensic site" for autopsy. I suspect this will have a VERY unusual outcome.

until we have a police officer available to watch every citizen 24/7, violent crime will be a problem to some degree. We can not afford to pay for that level of protection. With that many police they will surely then become the problem.

Police can only catch your murderer or rapist after the fact! MAYBE!!! Nothing is as effective at preventing violent crime as a firearm.

Anyone who lives in an area where violent crime is not a problem is very fortunate!

I expect that as the economy continues it's slide, violent crime will increase astronomically.

Slàinte,   

Patch

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Dogshirt 
Posted: 01-May-2008, 09:59 PM
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[/QUOTE]In that respect I agree with Herr Adolph. In my humble opinion there is absolutely no need for a private citizen to own a fire arm. The exception is Aboriginal Hunters.
As they use there rifles to provide food.[QUOTE]

Actually the reverse is that there is no reason whatsoever that a law abiding citizen cannot own any firearm he or she wants. The key phrase being "law abiding".



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Camac
Posted: 02-May-2008, 07:13 AM
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QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 01-May-2008, 09:59 PM)
[/QUOTE]In that respect I agree with Herr Adolph. In my humble opinion there is absolutely no need for a private citizen to own a fire arm. The exception is Aboriginal Hunters.
As they use there rifles to provide food.[QUOTE]

Actually the reverse is that there is no reason whatsoever that a law abiding citizen cannot own any firearm he or she wants. The key phrase being "law abiding".



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Why? Why does any "law abiding" citizen need a gun? Don't use the excuse that the criminals have them that's what the police are for. If you did not have the 2nd amendment then there would not be the proliferation of weapons that you have. The arms manufacturers market would have been limited to supplying the military.
95% of the gun crimes in Canada are commited by weapons smuggled in from the U.S. because of our stricter gun laws.


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Patch 
Posted: 02-May-2008, 08:54 AM
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If one would study our Constitution, Bill of rights and the Federalist Papers one would see that those who drafted those documents gave most powers to the states. They feared a large central Govt. The second amendment was for a two fold purpose. Since there was to be no large standing army, every bodied able citizen would be expected to defend the Republic until an army could be raised. Secondly, an armed populace was expected to "keep the Fed. Govt, in line".

As for police, your choice is, whether to prevent the murder or rape of a family member or rely on police finding the perp after the crime is committed. I will choose the first option in a flash. To accomplish the later, we would need police protection 24/7 or be willing to accept protective custody in prison situations to reduce the number of police required for protection. If we were to go about our daily activities, it would take a minimum of 5 officers for every unarmed citizen to assure safety of sorts! First, we can't afford it and second, it we had that many police think "police State!"

As for fire arms being smuggled into Canada, it is your border to protect. We should not be expected to fix your problems.

Our cross to bear is the illegal alien and drug problem at our southern border. That is our problem to fix, not Mexico's.

Re: your more recent registration law, friends in Ontario, Alberta and BC laughingly relate that it is a VERY expensive failure. They contend that only a small number have registered their firearms. The one thing they indicated that registration did was build the "third" (conservative) party. I have read news articles to that effect down here too.

Slàinte,   

Patch

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Dogshirt 
Posted: 02-May-2008, 10:05 AM
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QUOTE
Why? Why does any "law abiding" citizen need a gun? Don't use the excuse that the criminals have them that's what the police are for. If you did not have the 2nd amendment then there would not be the proliferation of weapons that you have. The arms manufacturers market would have been limited to supplying the military.
95% of the gun crimes in Canada are commited by weapons smuggled in from the U.S. because of our stricter gun laws.



If we follow your thinking then only carpenters should be allowed hammers or plumbers / pipe wrenches, etc.


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John Clements 
Posted: 02-May-2008, 10:25 AM
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Guys I think this dilemma is a wash, (that is to say that you’re damned if you do, and your damned if you don’t) because whether you are a law biding or not, (and you own a gun), someone could get shot, either deliberately or accidently? You know even as “liberal” minded as I am, I’ll take that chance, rather then not be able to defend myself, or my loved ones.

As far as “law enforcement" is concerned. I’m more concerned about being shot by them. Then I am of being shot by a criminal.

Hey, I wonder if you can beat someone to death with a bouquet of flowers,
I suppose you could, providing they don’t beat you to death with one first?

JC
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Camac
Posted: 02-May-2008, 10:26 AM
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QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 02-May-2008, 10:05 AM)
QUOTE
Why? Why does any "law abiding" citizen need a gun? Don't use the excuse that the criminals have them that's what the police are for. If you did not have the 2nd amendment then there would not be the proliferation of weapons that you have. The arms manufacturers market would have been limited to supplying the military.
95% of the gun crimes in Canada are commited by weapons smuggled in from the U.S. because of our stricter gun laws.



If we follow your thinking then only carpenters should be allowed hammers or plumbers / pipe wrenches, etc.


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Dogshirt;

Stop comparing apples to oranges. Your reply is absurd. Because of your 2nd admendment, which has been misinterpeted and corrupted, in a lot of States a person can walk into a gun store and buy just about any concievable weapon he chooses. What in the name of hell does a person need with a .50cal sniper rifle or for that matter an A.K 47 OR M. 16. One other question; Have you ever been shot at or shot? If you had you might change your thinking.


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Patch 
Posted: 02-May-2008, 11:09 AM
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In answer to your question, YES I have both been shot at and shot. I worked in upper management in both industry and govt. Also was educated in Political Science and Economics. That is why I believe as I do. That I have the right to defend myself and family. I also, over the years, intervened in two domestic violence situations. I injured both perps. In no instance was a police officer near by. Survival was in my hands. You must have a lot more law enforcement than we have!

Second, until one has read and understands our Constitution, our Bill of rights and the Federalist papers, one can not form reasonable ideas as to why we have the laws that we do. America has the right to live as we see fit. Canada has that same right.

I will (even at my age) fight for the American way of life and will fight to defend yours also. (With no intent to press upon you our beliefs) I would guess that as open as your border is with us (both sides) that for the firearms that go North, we get drugs and terrorists back in at least equal measure. (some have been caught coming here with one or the other or as terrorists!)

Slàinte,   

Patch
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Camac
Posted: 02-May-2008, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 02-May-2008, 11:09 AM)
Camac

In answer to your question, YES I have both been shot at and shot. I worked in upper management in both industry and govt. Also was educated in Political Science and Economics. That is why I believe as I do. That I have the right to defend myself and family. I also, over the years, intervened in two domestic violence situations. I injured both perps. In no instance was a police officer near by. Survival was in my hands. You must have a lot more law enforcement than we have!

Second, until one has read and understands our Constitution, our Bill of rights and the Federalist papers, one can not form reasonable ideas as to why we have the laws that we do. America has the right to live as we see fit. Canada has that same right.

I will (even at my age) fight for the American way of life and will fight to defend yours also. (With no intent to press upon you our beliefs) I would guess that as open as your border is with us (both sides) that for the firearms that go North, we get drugs and terrorists back in at least equal measure. (some have been caught coming here with one or the other or as terrorists!)

Slàinte,   

Patch

Patch.
My Friend believe it or not I understand your stance it is that it is almost unconceivable for me or most of us in the North to go along with the gun thing.
In my limited experience I have noticed though that Canadians seem to have more respect for police than most Americans do. I lived in the states and served in your military for 6 1/2 years and in most cases I could not get over the contempt for the police that I saw.

As to the Terrorist coming from Canada, only one ever did so and he was allowed to by the RCMP, in con-junction with US authorities, who were tracking him because your laws were stricter in those cases than ours were at the time.
I am not trying to force our way upon you as you are not trying to do so with me I am merely stating that we do have different opinions.


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