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free2Bme 
Posted: 14-Jun-2003, 09:36 AM
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Here is another good website about Celtic Mythology:

http://www.geocities.com/~huathe/mythology.html


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Faileas 
Posted: 14-Jun-2003, 04:28 PM
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Ey, fascinating topic and nice stories! I heard about Herne too in Robin Hood, years ago, in that superb tv series that was all over the world.

The Celts make a fascinating people, I think, and they are very often seen in the wrong picture. They have had a high culture, valued storytellers and musicians and a highly developped art as we know through many finds throughout Europe. If I remember what I read years ago right, the Celts as such don't exist as one people. It's rather a group of tribes that happen to have the same types of languages. There are two "strings" of Celtic languages, p-celtic (languages such as Breton and Welsh) and q-celtic (Gaidhlig and Gailge, as weel as Manx Gaidhlig). Anyhow, if ye go looking for sources of Celtic origins, Martin Helm suggests one of the Russian Rivers, i have forgotten which one it was lol, might have been the Lena.

But as to literature on Celts i can recommend John Rhys "Celtic Britain" published by "Senate", a good read for a history and archeology book. On celtic mythology is "Celtic Myths and Legends" by T. W. Roleston worth a read, it tells ye about the true origins of the myths in history and gives ye insight into the legends themselves as they are told today. Just a good read without any background information (except in the short but excellent introduction) are Frank Delaney's "Legends of the Celts", which tells the most popular legends that have come through the times out of Wales, Ireland, Brittany and Cornwall. Happy reading! ph34r.gif cool.gif


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pawnman 
Posted: 14-Jun-2003, 04:45 PM
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Just a follow up to that story about the swans:
They were the children of Lir, god of the ocean, who married one of Bodb Dearg's threee foster daughter's. Bodb Dearg was the son of Dagda and king of the Danu. Lir first married Aobh, the daughter representing spring, who bore him his children. When she died, he married Aoife, the autumn. She was the one who cursed the children. The third daughter, Niamh, was not at all involved. Aoife's punishment was to take the form of a crow with blood dripping from it's beak, the symbol of Macha, Bdb, and Memain, the three forms of Morrigan, goddess of war, death, and slaughter.
The children were named Fionnghuala, Aodh ("fair-shouldered" and "fire", the daughters) and Fiachra and Conn ("Battle-king" and "wisdom", the sons).


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pawnman 
Posted: 14-Jun-2003, 09:30 PM
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Oh, a little more history for you: Bodb Dearg was the king of the Danu, whom the Celts regarded as the native gods to the British Isles, while Lir was a member of the Mil, who were seen as invaders. I'm not sure how this works out historically, but there you have it (Just like my sig says, the Children of Mil basically drove out the Children of Danu)
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RavenWing 
Posted: 17-Jun-2003, 09:59 AM
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The similarities you were referring to is exactly why I had so much trouble with religion. I was an anthropology major in college and I cam to realize that they were all the same with different names. I finally came to the decision to follow the religion that my ancestors followed.



BTW - I have been looking for some text on how the Roman Catholic Church took the image of Kernunnos and used it as the image of the Devil. I remember reading something similar about St. Bran is actually Kernnunos. If anyone know sof anything on this subject, I'd greatly appreciate it.

P.S. - If any comments I made in this post offend anyone, please accept my apologies in advance. Ia mnot trying to stir up a religious debate. smile.gif



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barddas 
Posted: 17-Jun-2003, 10:54 AM
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The Irish Saint Brigid has been linked to the Goddess Brigid. When the church came to Ireland there was an eternal flame that was kept by women, to the goddess Bridid. After the Church arrived, they built a convent on/ near the site. They kept the flame burning to the Saint Brigid.( the flame was then kept by only the nuns) From what I remember reading there is no real proof that the Saint Brigid ever exisisted. It is believed that the goddess was transformd to "saint" to make the transition to Christianity easier...

The old Pagan festival of Imbolc or Brigids fire was Feb. 1st. Now it is known as St. Brigids day....

It happens all over if you look for it. The old transformed into the new....

At least that is what I have seen, and read


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RavenWing 
Posted: 17-Jun-2003, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (barddas @ Jun 17 2003, 04:54 PM)
The Irish Saint Brigid has been linked to the Goddess Brigid. When the church came to Ireland there was an eternal flame that was kept by women, to the goddess Bridid. After the Church arrived, they built a convent on/ near the site. They kept the flame burning to the Saint Brigid.( the flame was then kept by only the nuns) From what I remember reading there is no real proof that the Saint Brigid ever exisisted. It is believed that the goddess was transformd to "saint" to make the transition to Christianity easier...

The old Pagan festival of Imbolc or Brigids fire was Feb. 1st. Now it is known as St. Brigids day....

It happens all over if you look for it. The old transformed into the new....

At least that is what I have seen, and read

Yeah, they did that to a lot of the native religions. Catholic mass is so similar to Druidic rituals also. When I realized that was when I started to get disillusioned.
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pawnman 
Posted: 18-Jun-2003, 10:58 AM
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Christians took alot of the old Celtic and Germanic traditions. Easter eggs used to be decorated and hung on trees as a prayer for fertile land in spring. Christmas trees were decorated to appease the gods during hard winters. Garland (I'm told) came from the Germanic tribes, who used to disembowl their enemies and hang the intestines as a warning. Mistletoe was regarded by the Druids to be sacred because it grew without touching the ground.
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free2Bme 
  Posted: 18-Jun-2003, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE (pawnman @ Jun 18 2003, 12:58 PM)
Garland (I'm told) came from the Germanic tribes, who used to disembowl their enemies and hang the intestines as a warning.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!


I could have gone all day without knowing that!


Yes Christianity took all of the pagan traditions and built them into their own religion - it was the same when the Jesuit Priests came to the New World and "converted" all of the Native Tribes to Christianity - i.e. kill all the adults, then raise the children in "orphanages" so that they can be thoroughly indoctrinated.

I believe in God, a power greater than myself, but I don't believe in organized religion.

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Aon_Daonna 
  Posted: 18-Jun-2003, 01:14 PM
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What do you think the whole easter fest is?? *grins*
It's actually the days to honor epona, the horse goddess (celtic)..
The holy trinity (father, son, holy spirit [or however that is called in english]) is actually a imitation of the celtic trinity (Cernunnos, Morrigú and one other) and the holiness of the number 3 in itself.

I could go on, but I think I'd bore everybody to death wink.gif


I'm not a believing person and I don't know all the english words that play a role in christian religion, so excuse my careless wording of those things. It's mostly because I don't know better.


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barddas 
Posted: 18-Jun-2003, 01:14 PM
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It's such a shame too. All of the culture of so many different peoples lost forever.... Whatever religion it is, it normally has a basic similarity...

I hate to see my friends that live on the rez. But that is THIER land. it's all they have left. They just now are being able to speak thier own languages in some of the schools ......

Not to mention the loss of thier Native religion too....


From what I am told the younger people on the Rez' are starting to go back to the native ways a bit more....

I know this is not Celtic Mythology, but it does/has happened to every area of the world just about....
sorry for getting on a soapbox...LOL!
back on topic..sorry
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Aon_Daonna 
  Posted: 18-Jun-2003, 02:07 PM
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I think it belongs here like anything else =)

My heart breaks when I see another old house being torn down or abandoned. But things go. I think it were the Inka who completely extinguished the Tolteks in Mexico?
Just today we should create an awareness of all these things that save our own cultural diversity.
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pawnman 
Posted: 20-Jun-2003, 10:37 AM
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I agree with holding on to cultural diversity. Only problem is, most religions make a big deal out of converting other people to your religion. So, many of the ancient traditions are lost, passed down in a bastardized form, or forgotten altogether. Sad.
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RavenWing 
Posted: 20-Jun-2003, 10:53 AM
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It is very sad. I just don't understand how someone can think that they are so right, that those who do not agree must die. (Physically as well as culturally)
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pawnman 
Posted: 20-Jun-2003, 11:36 AM
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Great. Now I'm all depressed. Back to the pub!
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