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barddas 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 12:59 PM
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pawnman quote
* It fascinates me how much Celtic lore is lost on the masses, while people still talk about Thor, Zeus, etc... If only the Celts had managed to organize before the Romans had charged in, eh? *

It almost happened with Boudica. She almost drove them out. I read a good article about her/battle a few months back in Archeology magazine. I'll see if I can dig it up....

I also enjoy the similarities of Cernnunos, Herne the Hunter and that of Robin Hood

Tag. The ball has started rollin'.... smile.gif


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pawnman 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 01:06 PM
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I can't say I'm a real scholar myself. So far, I'm halfway through one book of celtic mythology (the one my sig is taken from). I did read one that sounded strangely similar to the trials of Hercules. Three brothers had to pay a "death price", and the stuff they had to get included the apples from the hesperides and so on...


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barddas 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE (pawnman @ Jun 12 2003, 07:06 PM)
I can't say I'm a real scholar myself.

Nor am I. I just like to read and look info up on the net and TLC, History Channel and so on. That's what this is for, sharing the stories and myths.....And learning a little on the way...

The only thing about the Romans invading as far as the lore to the masses goes. There really wasn 't much of a written language at that time( I believe) . There was the Ogham system but I'm not sure how prevelent that was during that time period?
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barddas 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 01:22 PM
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OH!!!! Just thought of a great book! It's called "The Life and Death of A Druid Prince". It's an Archeology study of a body they found in a bog in England. Around the time of the Roman invasion. He was so well perserved that he still had his eyes!!!!! AWESOME BOOK, and mystery, and look at the druidic religion!!
LOVE this book!


OOPPS I forgot to mention that he was a sacrifice and tossed into the bog some 2000 years ago!!!!
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pawnman 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 01:24 PM
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I think I've heard of that book. I also saw one at Barnes and Noble about how the Celts saved civilization. I guess the Irish and Scottish maintained alot of the written history during the dark ages. At least, that's what I remember about the book. I should have bought it...
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Keltic 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 02:20 PM
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You have to be extremely careful about what to believe when reading about the Celts. Besides the archaeological finds, a large part of what we know is from the writings of the Greeks and Romans who weren't exactly unbiased recorders of history. A lot of the books on the market today are heavily influenced by the new age movement and they are written as though they are known fact and not theory and they come with questionable bibliographies.


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pawnman 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 02:25 PM
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I know, but where else are you going to get any information? I figure since I get so much practice filtering bias out of the daily news, maybe I can work out what's true and what's roman propaganda (not that I really mind the Romans too much - I took four years of Latin in high school). Still, I am upset that the Celts got so thouroughly washed out of history.
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barddas 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 03:04 PM
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Very true Keltic! Good point! That's why I read a lot of Archeology stuff. Less bias, and a broader point of view.
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barddas 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 03:06 PM
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So, where do we start from here?
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pawnman 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 03:15 PM
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Good question. I read a good one about the Children of Danu, who were turned into swans by their wicked step-mother. The king forbid anyone to kill a swan in all of Ireland. Is that still in effect?
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barddas 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 03:18 PM
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I'm not sure. I did see LOTS of swans while I was over there a few weeks back.That didn't even pop into my head. I was just So amazed I had made it there FINALLY!!!!

So, tell me more of this... tell me the story... I know that was it in a nut shell but lets make this fun. smile.gif unsure.gif
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pawnman 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 03:28 PM
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I'm not sure I remember the whole thing off the top of my head, certainly not the names...
Anyway, one king had married the other kings daughter. The daughter was one of three sisters, who represented winter, spring, and summer (I don't know where fall was, but she wasn't mentioned). Anyway, they had four kids (2 boys, 2 girls), then she died. He took one of the other sisters as his next wife, but she died too. Then he took the last one. She was jealous and asked the servants to kill the kids. When the servants wouldn't, she turned them into swans and cursed them to swim for 900 years in three different (and dismal) lakes (300 years apiece). When the kids finally returned, they were old and gray, and the rest of their people had been driven under the hills (the sidhe). Finally, a kindly old man dug graves for them (at their request) while they sang their last song. Rumor has it this is where we get swan song from.
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barddas 
Posted: 12-Jun-2003, 03:47 PM
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Very nice. Thank you. I will be posting something by weeks end. AHHHHH
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barddas 
Posted: 13-Jun-2003, 09:04 AM
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I remembered this story it's not "celtic" per say but it does make for a cool story. Some associate Herne with the Celtic god Cernnunos. Which is represented as a man with stag antlers and roaming the forest. Also the mention of the oak,one of the sacred trees to the druids.

'Herne' was one of the keepers of the 'Forest of Windsor' in the reign of 'King Richard II' and known for his great hunting and woodcraft skills. Whilst King Richard favoured Herne his fellow hunters it is said hated him and plotted to cause Herne's downfall.

One day the royal party were out on a hunt the king was nearly killed when attacked by a stag. Herne stepped in to help the king taking the main blow and fell to the floor. He seemed to be dead. Suddenly a dark figure appeared amongst the party and announced himself as 'Philip Urswick'. He then proceeded to inform the king that for a reward he would cure Herne.

After cutting the head off the stag and binding it to Herne's head, the party took Herne to Urswick's own hut which was located on 'Bagshot Heath'. Urswick vowed that he would take great care of Herne. King Richard then announced that if Herne recovered he would promote Herne to be the chief keeper.

Unbeknown to the king the other hunters were later in contact with Urswick and told him of their loathing for the favoured keeper announcing that they were disappointed that he had not died in the incident. Urswick promised the hunters revenge but only if his first wish and the reward was granted. He told them that Herne would recover but would loose all his hunting skills. Satisfied with his answer, the hunters agreed.

Keeping his promise to the king it seemed, Urswick soon had Herne returned to court whereupon he was promoted to chief keeper. Herne seemed to have recovered thoroughly until it became apparent that his hunting skills had disappeared. The king was extremely disappointed with Herne revoked the promotion. It is said that this is the reason why Herne, being so grieved by the king's actions, hanged himself from an Oak tree in Windsor forest. His body disappeared under suspicious circumstances.

Urswick did not reveal the charm that he had cast upon Herne to the king. A new chief hunter was appointed but he too, once promoted, lost his skill. The same happened to his successor too. Urswick was asked to remove the charm. Before making any agreement, Urswick informed the hunters that they would have to meet him at the Oak. Once there they would be told what had to be done to dispel the charm.

The group of hunters arrived at the Oak as asked and after waiting a short time Urswick appeared. He told the them that Herne's death was on each of them and that horses and hounds should be brought to the oak the next night. Agreeing they made preparations and returned to the forest. On reaching the Oak Herne appeared on a horse and told them to follow him to another area of the forest. Herne took the party to a Beech tree and whilst there Urswick suddenly appeared out of the tree covered in flames. Herne had summoned Urswick to appear. Urswick then made the party swear an oath to Herne that they would form a band of hunters with Herne as their leader to dispel the charm.
Urswick's promise had been satisfied and the hunters became a faithful if not loving band of men loyal to Herne. For many nights the group would raid the forest taking deer until very few were left. King Richard came to learn of their pursuits, and decided to make a visit to he oak. He was angry and desired revenge upon the men.

Once there Herne appeared to the king and learnt of his anger. Herne listened and said that if the king wished him to leave the forest, taking his power with him, the king would have to agree to a request. Doubtless Herne wanted revenge upon his enemies who had desired his death. The king agreed to his request, and the group of men were hanged. Herne was then never seen again.

It is reputed though that Herne returned and reigned supreme, taking control of the forest of Windsor for eight years after the death of King Richard.

Many versions of the Herne legend exist. Some say that Herne hanged himself after committing a terrible crime, whilst another tells of a forest demon that takes on his appearance. The demon is said to place stag horns on its head haunting the forest still trying to convince keepers that it is Herne and that they should sell their souls to him.
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barddas 
Posted: 13-Jun-2003, 03:34 PM
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ZodiacWillow

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Here's a site that has a bit more on the Herne myth.

http://www.greenmanreview.com/hernethehunter.html
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