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Patch 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 10:21 AM
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Ex-Bear Stearns managers arrested at their homes
By TOM HAYS, Associated Press Writer
39 minutes ago

I do not have the complete story yet

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Patch 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 10:37 AM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 19-Jun-2008, 03:17 AM)
C-Span live last nite was interesting. A chart of oil drilling permits, wells drilled and the price of gas, all graphed on one chart.
The price of gas climbed regardless of permits and wells drilled.
In fact there are now more permits issued than wells drilled because the oil companies have no desire to drill at anywhere near their capabilities, nor are they willing to invest in the difficult extractions, even when they did drill to the full complement of permits, oil prices still did not drop, but climbed continously.
Then with refineries, even when there was a 50% tax credit to build them , the major oil companies refused and stated they had no interest in building refineries. The ROI wasn't there. Todays refineries are currently running at 80 t0 88% of capacity and again the oil companies say they have no interest in increasing capacity.

Reasons: the Return On Investment is far greater to do nothing than to put their money into oil drilling and refineries. They make far more money operating like they do than by any other means. Remember, corporations are in the business of making money. The most efficient way to make money and increase profits is to continue to function as they do. How many Mobil-Exxon stockholders are screaming at them to put their profits into non-profit making ventures?

Answers: there is no one answer, though that is the the current public policy approach. OldRaven covered this.

Other shames: Oil companies claiming to be "Going Green" in all their commercials ,Citgo, BP, Shell. What a joke. I forget what Mobil-Exxons total income was, but we all know their profits were 40 billion last year. Out of just their profits, the total investment in alternative energy was 10 million.
With the current policy of oil being an unregulated public commodity, oil companies have absolutely no reason to look elsewhere for profits.

Oil is not an open market product, oil prices are not ruled by the supply and demand model as stated by the oil companies to Congress. Oil is a limited, controlled source supply and limited distribution channels with a fixed growth demand.

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I have pegged the problem all along as being the oil industry. No one, including the government, will solve it. It is up to US. The previous Baer Stearns Executive arrests as report on AP wire service 45 min ago are the kind of things that will shake the system up. The oil Execs lied to the House and Senate when they testified under oath that the profits were justified as they were being reinvested in exploration. I am not brilliant but I know in my little Photography business, if I buy a piece of equipment or new technology with my profits, that portion is no longer profit.

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John Clements 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 04:16 PM
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Question, why didn't Bush drill for oil off shore and else where in the states, when the republicans had controle of the white house, and congress? My guess is, because it was much easier to steal it, at the cost of our rights and the blood of young Americans.


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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 05:47 PM
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There is no short term answer to this oil price issue. Heck, last month Congress stopped diverting oil to the strategic oil reserves and Bush agreed , yet oil prices did not go down, they went up! And as long as Congress insists on grandstanding and playing partisan answer politics, knowing full well neither party will get any results for the near term, this issue will persist. They are just looking to play the game of "see what we are trying to do for you, but they won't let us". Election year rhetoric just produces theatrics for the gullible publics consumption.


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Patch 
Posted: 20-Jun-2008, 11:49 AM
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John Clements & UlsterScotNutt


The last two posts display tremendous insight into the cause of our problems. We may have to wait on History to tell us exactly why it happened.

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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 20-Jun-2008, 05:30 PM
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Has anyone done the math to the volume of wealth that is being transferred from the working class to the wealthy? IT IS PHENOMENAL!!!
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Patch 
Posted: 20-Jun-2008, 05:37 PM
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I suspect that when the dust has settled there will be no middle class.

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Camac
Posted: 21-Jun-2008, 08:16 AM
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Patch;

McCain was up here in Ottawa yesterday giving a speech to The Economic Club Of Canada. At one juncture in his ramblings he advocated the "Harmonization of Energy Policies". As Canada is the largest supplier of energy to the U.S. what that means to most Canadians is "GIVE US MORE". More Oil, more Natural Gas, more Electricity, and by the way we will also take your Water.Some times it seems to us in the North that all that we are is a "Smorgasborg" for the states.



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Patch 
Posted: 21-Jun-2008, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 21-Jun-2008, 02:16 AM)
Patch;

McCain was up here in Ottawa yesterday giving a speech to The Economic Club Of Canada. At one juncture in his ramblings he advocated the "Harmonization of Energy Policies". As Canada is the largest supplier of energy to the U.S. what that means to most Canadians is "GIVE US MORE". More Oil, more Natural Gas, more Electricity, and by the way we will also take your Water.Some times it seems to us in the North that all that we are is a "Smorgasborg" for the states.



Camac.

We got no coverage of that trip at all. That is the policy of our representatives. Use all others reserves first. I have been contacting my representative and senators expressing my opposition to piping water from the great lakes to our South and West. The water is jointly owned and there is no way we could divide it by ownership. China's one child policy is almost a necessity but will never happen here. Along those same lines, the lack of water in Georgia is due to the fact it is being used by Florida. (an extreme concentration of people) In the West and Southwest water was "gold". Water rights were purchased years ago and belonged to the land owner. People were killed for trying to steal water. We could again have civil wars over water. It is a necessary item of survival.

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Camac
Posted: 21-Jun-2008, 02:39 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 21-Jun-2008, 01:51 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 21-Jun-2008, 02:16 AM)
Patch;

McCain was up here in Ottawa yesterday giving a speech to The Economic Club Of Canada. At one juncture in his ramblings he advocated the "Harmonization of Energy Policies". As Canada is the largest supplier of energy to the U.S. what that means to most Canadians is "GIVE US MORE". More Oil, more Natural Gas, more Electricity, and by the way we will also take your Water.Some times it seems to us in the North that all that we are is a "Smorgasborg" for the states.



Camac.

We got no coverage of that trip at all. That is the policy of our representatives. Use all others reserves first. I have been contacting my representative and senators expressing my opposition to piping water from the great lakes to our South and West. The water is jointly owned and there is no way we could divide it by ownership. China's one child policy is almost a necessity but will never happen here. Along those same lines, the lack of water in Georgia is due to the fact it is being used by Florida. (an extreme concentration of people) In the West and Southwest water was "gold". Water rights were purchased years ago and belonged to the land owner. People were killed for trying to steal water. We could again have civil wars over water. It is a necessary item of survival.

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Patch

"Love your Country but never trust your Government!"

Patch;

I can't remember who said it but it was stated that " Just as the majority of Wars to-day are being fought over oil, in the future Wars will be waged over Water."


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Patch 
Posted: 21-Jun-2008, 03:55 PM
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I saw that quoted a week or two ago. You can survive without food for a month or more. Lack of hydration will remove one from the picture in days. Mexico I believe is already complaining that we are not following water treaties.

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dcampbellmcarthur 
Posted: 21-Jun-2008, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 21-Jun-2008, 03:55 PM)
I saw that quoted a week or two ago. You can survive without food for a month or more. Lack of hydration will remove one from the picture in days. Mexico I believe is already complaining that we are not following water treaties.

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Patch;

I am not really up on it and will have to do some more research but if I'm correct there are clause in NAFTA governing the trade of water.


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Camac
Posted: 21-Jun-2008, 04:45 PM
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How did I end up becoming dcampbellmcarthur?


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Patch 
Posted: 21-Jun-2008, 05:38 PM
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QUOTE (dcampbellmcarthur @ 21-Jun-2008, 10:31 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 21-Jun-2008, 03:55 PM)
I saw that quoted a week or two ago.  You can survive without food for a month or more.  Lack of hydration will remove one from the picture in days.  Mexico I believe is already complaining that we are not following water treaties.

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Patch    

Patch;

I am not really up on it and will have to do some more research but if I'm correct there are clause in NAFTA governing the trade of water.


Camac.

As I recall the complaint was, that too much water was being diverted to California.

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Camac
Posted: 21-Jun-2008, 08:57 PM
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Patch;

Methinks that people do not realize that water is not a renewable resource. All the water that ever was or ever will be has been here from the beginning and is just recycled.


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