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Patch 
Posted: 28-May-2008, 05:48 PM
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I just heard that Scott McClelland's book critical of the bush, white house, himself and the news media was just released. All but Scott are in an uproar!

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oldraven 
Posted: 29-May-2008, 08:30 AM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 13-May-2008, 08:30 AM)
If there had been no Berlin Airlift, we would be living in a radically different world today. The Russians took potshots at the relief planes then, but they never risked shooting one down for fear of engaging the rest of the allied powers by an act of war and blowing the whole mess open again. With the Burmese junta, there's no telling what lame-brained thing they would do if they could, but they don't have the firepower to fend off an airlift. Logistically it's a horror dropping perishables because of all the water, but watertight pallets could be devised with a little thought to get something through. The military has apparently kept the small amount of high quality food that was brought in and then seized, and is handing out decayed rice to the people.

A government ripe for a turnover -- too bad there's no oil under Myanmar, just a load of fancy rubies; no one in this world ever deposed a totalitarian leader just because the people are suffering. Write that one right out of the books. dry.gif

Edit -- just read that the Chinese are welcoming funds and supplies, but not relief workers after the earthquake. Same story. What in God's name are these people hiding that they don't want the world to see, and how is it more important than the lives of thousands of their people? ALthough I must say, their infrastructure and personnel are in better shape than Burma, and the nature of the disaster is different -- access is better, and they don't lack for hands to shift rubble. But still, medical specialists, trauma specialists -- they could use all that.

I think it has a lot less to do with what they are hiding from the outside world and more to do with what they are hiding from their own people. Ideas that they don't want into the locals heads.


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Camac
Posted: 29-May-2008, 10:22 AM
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QUOTE (oldraven @ 29-May-2008, 08:30 AM)
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 13-May-2008, 08:30 AM)
If there had been no Berlin Airlift, we would be living in a radically different world today.  The Russians took potshots at the relief planes then, but they never risked shooting one down for fear of engaging the rest of the allied powers by an act of war and blowing the whole mess open again.  With the Burmese junta, there's no telling what lame-brained thing they would do if they could, but they don't have the firepower to fend off an airlift.  Logistically it's a horror dropping perishables because of all the water, but watertight pallets could be devised with a little thought to get something through.  The military has apparently kept the small amount of high quality food that was brought in and then seized, and is handing out decayed rice to the people. 

A government ripe for a turnover -- too bad there's no oil under Myanmar, just a load of fancy rubies; no one in this world ever deposed a totalitarian leader just because the people are suffering.  Write that one right out of the books. dry.gif

Edit -- just read that the Chinese are welcoming funds and supplies, but not relief workers after the earthquake.  Same story.  What in God's name are these people hiding that they don't want the world to see, and how is it more important than the lives of thousands of their people?  ALthough I must say, their infrastructure and personnel are in better shape than Burma, and the nature of the disaster is different -- access is better, and they don't lack for hands to shift rubble.  But still, medical specialists, trauma specialists -- they could use all that.

I think it has a lot less to do with what they are hiding from the outside world and more to do with what they are hiding from their own people. Ideas that they don't want into the locals heads.

In Knowledge, there lies Power.


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stoirmeil 
Posted: 29-May-2008, 10:35 AM
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QUOTE (oldraven @ 29-May-2008, 08:30 AM)
I think it has a lot less to do with what they are hiding from the outside world and more to do with what they are hiding from their own people. Ideas that they don't want into the locals heads.

You're probably right about that. Even more so for Myanmar -- they are keeping Aung San Suu Kyi in her house illegally for another year. Her release would be a political disaster for the government now, but keeping her this way isn't much better either internally or in the eyes of the world. One of the political experts on Asian affairs commented on NPR recently about Burma: "Order first, humanity second. And it's been that way for forty years." I'm glad they're keeping the issue independent of the effort to get some aid provisions in, but it isn't really independent of it in the larger sense. That regime is on borrowed time.
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John Clements 
Posted: 29-May-2008, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 29-May-2008, 10:35 AM)
You're probably right about that. Even more so for Myanmar -- they are keeping Aung San Suu Kyi in her house illegally for another year. Her release would be a political disaster for the government now, but keeping her this way isn't much better either internally or in the eyes of the world. One of the political experts on Asian affairs commented on NPR recently about Burma: "Order first, humanity second. And it's been that way for forty years." I'm glad they're keeping the issue independent of the effort to get some aid provisions in, but it isn't really independent of it in the larger sense. That regime is on borrowed time.

Isn’t it amazing how they always get it backwards. Put Humanity first, and Order comes along for the ride.

That regime is on borrowed time? So is this one! So you better get ready for another terrorist attack, followed immediately by Martial Law. (And this time, they won’t care if they get caught!)


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Patch 
Posted: 29-May-2008, 02:07 PM
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It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market. That market is the engine driving fuel prices. It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released! This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

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stoirmeil 
Posted: 29-May-2008, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 02:07 PM)
It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market.  That market is the engine driving fuel prices.  It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released!  This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

[irony]
shocking.gif
PRICE MANIPULATION??!!
You can't mean they've been jacking it up and down (or just up) on PURPOSE, can you? [/irony]

You know, when something like that breaks the only thing I can think of is "Who does it benefit that they are exposing this TODAY?" Especially in a high-tension political climate. dry.gif
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Patch 
Posted: 29-May-2008, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 29-May-2008, 09:35 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 02:07 PM)
It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market.  That market is the engine driving fuel prices.  It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released!  This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

[irony]
shocking.gif
PRICE MANIPULATION??!!
You can't mean they've been jacking it up and down (or just up) on PURPOSE, can you? [/irony]

You know, when something like that breaks the only thing I can think of is "Who does it benefit that they are exposing this TODAY?" Especially in a high-tension political climate. dry.gif

Yes my thinking also. The price did drop $4.00 plus a barrel with the announcment. I think for the most part the release for whatever reason is to benefit the GOP. There could be criminal activity (based on the immediate drop in price.)

Slàinte,    

Patch    
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John Clements 
Posted: 29-May-2008, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 04:48 PM)
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 29-May-2008, 09:35 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 02:07 PM)
It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market.  That market is the engine driving fuel prices.  It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released!  This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

[irony]
shocking.gif
PRICE MANIPULATION??!!
You can't mean they've been jacking it up and down (or just up) on PURPOSE, can you? [/irony]

You know, when something like that breaks the only thing I can think of is "Who does it benefit that they are exposing this TODAY?" Especially in a high-tension political climate. dry.gif

Yes my thinking also. The price did drop $4.00 plus a barrel with the announcment. I think for the most part the release for whatever reason is to benefit the GOP. There could be criminal activity (based on the immediate drop in price.)

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Well SURPRISE SUPRRISE!
Didn’t the Baseball team owners do the same thing, (back in the day), conspiring to keep the players salaries down! All the clichés fit, and I think this “Boil” is coming to a head. So you better brake out the bandages!
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Patch 
Posted: 29-May-2008, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE (John Clements @ 29-May-2008, 11:54 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 04:48 PM)
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 29-May-2008, 09:35 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 02:07 PM)
It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market.  That market is the engine driving fuel prices.  It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released!  This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

[irony]
shocking.gif
PRICE MANIPULATION??!!
You can't mean they've been jacking it up and down (or just up) on PURPOSE, can you? [/irony]

You know, when something like that breaks the only thing I can think of is "Who does it benefit that they are exposing this TODAY?" Especially in a high-tension political climate. dry.gif

Yes my thinking also. The price did drop $4.00 plus a barrel with the announcment. I think for the most part the release for whatever reason is to benefit the GOP. There could be criminal activity (based on the immediate drop in price.)

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Well SURPRISE SUPRRISE!
Didn’t the Baseball team owners do the same thing, (back in the day), conspiring to keep the players salaries down! All the clichés fit, and I think this “Boil” is coming to a head. So you better brake out the bandages!

I am in total agreement. Retail prices were rising on the basis of oil futures prices. It will be interesting to see how many investors" loose their nerve over night and bail tomorrow morning.

Slàinte,    

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Patch 
Posted: 31-May-2008, 03:16 PM
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According to prominent Democrats last night, they want to enter the Michigan/Florida primary results and the super delegates according to a formula. Depending on the formula, Hillary may still have an outside chance to win. Who would have thought such!!

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Robert Phoenix 
Posted: 01-Jun-2008, 12:16 AM
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Check this out. Obama, Bush, and Cheney are all distant cousins.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obam...treea09.article

And don't worry the pice of gas won't go up until we are all comfortable with $4.00 a gallon. Then they will raise it to $6.00/gal to get us to freak out and be grateful for $5.00/gal


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Patch 
Posted: 01-Jun-2008, 03:21 AM
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QUOTE (Robert Phoenix @ 31-May-2008, 06:16 PM)
Check this out. Obama, Bush, and Cheney are all distant cousins.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obam...treea09.article

And don't worry the pice of gas won't go up until we are all comfortable with $4.00 a gallon. Then they will raise it to $6.00/gal to get us to freak out and be grateful for $5.00/gal

This "shortage" in the supply of oil per the House and Senate testimony just ended is reminiscent of the past toilet paper, sugar, coffee and fuel shortages. For some strange reason since last Friday, I haven't heard the oil futures price announced on TV. The investigation was announced on Thursday. If I hear nothing on monday, I will have to buy a Wall Street Journal.

As to the cousins, I do not think bush and cheny will admit it.

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Emmet 
Posted: 02-Jun-2008, 12:29 AM
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Fossil fuels, particularly petrochemicals, are the sine qua non of the Industrial Age. At some point it was inevitable that global demand will outstrip supply; demand will continue to rise while production precipitously declines. The discovery of new oil reserves peaked in the 1962 and has declined to virtually nothing in the past few years. The last year we discovered more oil than we extracted was 1979. Today we consume 6 barrels of oil for every single barrel we find. In 2005 world oil production peaked at just under 82.5 million barrels a day, while global oil consumption was 83.6 million barrels a day. Since then oil production has declined while demand has continued to grow; this year it's projected to be 86.8 million barrels a day.
Reigning in profiteering and re-regulating futures markets, while laudable (and much too little, too late, if it happens at all) won't change the basic equation.

If you think $4.00 a gallon is bad, just wait. Goldman Sachs (one of the leading offenders in backroom commodities trading) predicted gas might be $6.00 a gallon by Christmas, and what do you think will happen if King George (or his anointed heir apparent) gets his wish and bombs Iran, who in turn pops a couple of supertankers in the Straits of Hormuz with Silkworms? Think of the global economy having the equivalent of a massive myocardial infarction.


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Patch 
Posted: 02-Jun-2008, 02:18 AM
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QUOTE (Emmet @ 01-Jun-2008, 06:29 PM)
Fossil fuels, particularly petrochemicals, are the sine qua non of the Industrial Age. At some point it was inevitable that global demand will outstrip supply; demand will continue to rise while production precipitously declines. The discovery of new oil reserves peaked in the 1962 and has declined to virtually nothing in the past few years. The last year we discovered more oil than we extracted was 1979. Today we consume 6 barrels of oil for every single barrel we find. In 2005 world oil production peaked at just under 82.5 million barrels a day, while global oil consumption was 83.6 million barrels a day. Since then oil production has declined while demand has continued to grow; this year it's projected to be 86.8 million barrels a day.
Reigning in profiteering and re-regulating futures markets, while laudable (and much too little, too late, if it happens at all) won't change the basic equation.

If you think $4.00 a gallon is bad, just wait. Goldman Sachs (one of the leading offenders in backroom commodities trading) predicted gas might be $6.00 a gallon by Christmas, and what do you think will happen if King George (or his anointed heir apparent) gets his wish and bombs Iran, who in turn pops a couple of supertankers in the Straits of Hormuz with Silkworms? Think of the global economy having the equivalent of a massive myocardial infarction.

I agree with you with one exception and that would be the reserves of oil shale that we have. The recovery cost is now feasible and is less than the cost of recovery on oil sand in Canada. We could not get it into the system quick enough to forestall the impending economic crisis. In my area there is a move toward Methanol. I have been told that for Methanonl to be economically feasible, gasoline needs to be selling for about $7.00 a gallon at this point.. As the price of corn increases so do production costs. There is a "still" about 30 miles from me which has been in the "planning stage for a number of years. They have been drawing incomes from it but there has been no meaningful production to date. I believe Hydrogen is the fuel that will eventually win out. Again a local fork lift manufacturer is producing demand units that will run their lifts. The key is that they are used indoors where the water does not freeze. Nothing will happen until the oil companies figure out how to control and profit from the system. The world economies are so entertwined that they will all collapse at the same time. Any economic "infarction" today will make 1929 look like a picnic!! I personally blame king george and his minions. Unfortunately our fate is in the hands of countries who have at best, an intense dislike for us!!! I fear we are in for quite a ride.

Slàinte,    

Patch    
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