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Will the U.S. attack Iran?
Yes. [ 9 ]  [50.00%]
No. [ 5 ]  [27.78%]
Not Sure. [ 4 ]  [22.22%]
Total Votes: 18
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maisky 
Posted on 14-Feb-2007, 06:09 AM
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Here is letter I sent to my congressman:

"Stop these madmen from irrevocably committing us all to World War III. Just as it was transparently obvious during the buildup to the Iraq war that it was a done deal, so is it now clear that these criminals and madmen are preparing to widen their theater and invade Iran. Despite the lack of credible justification, despite the virtual certainy of disaster along this course, they soldier on, secure that ideology is on their side. Billions or trillions in graft and slush certainly are, at any rate.

Well, that virtual certainty of diaster sure didn't stop them from pulling their PNAC bullcrap in Iraq. The Legislative branch must IMMEDIATELY prohibit any military "adventurism" in Iran by president Hand-Puppet and his evil handler, Darth Cheney. We must all absolutely refuse to continue being accessories to mass murder. Especially since this time, the list of victims could well include ourselves."

I hope that wasn't too subtle. rolleyes.gif


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haynes9 
Posted on 14-Feb-2007, 09:38 AM
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QUOTE (maisky @ 14-Feb-2007, 04:09 AM)
Here is letter I sent to my congressman:

"Stop these madmen from irrevocably committing us all to World War III. Just as it was transparently obvious during the buildup to the Iraq war that it was a done deal, so is it now clear that these criminals and madmen are preparing to widen their theater and invade Iran. Despite the lack of credible justification, despite the virtual certainy of disaster along this course, they soldier on, secure that ideology is on their side. Billions or trillions in graft and slush certainly are, at any rate.

Well, that virtual certainty of diaster sure didn't stop them from pulling their PNAC bullcrap in Iraq. The Legislative branch must IMMEDIATELY prohibit any military "adventurism" in Iran by president Hand-Puppet and his evil handler, Darth Cheney. We must all absolutely refuse to continue being accessories to mass murder. Especially since this time, the list of victims could well include ourselves."

I hope that wasn't too subtle. rolleyes.gif

So, let me see if I understand, Maisky. Are you saying your against any involvement in Iran wink.gif ?


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Emmet 
Posted on 14-Feb-2007, 11:34 AM
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I find it highly amusing that within 24 hours of our idiot king loudly proclaiming that the Iranian government "at the highest levels" is complicit in the deaths of 170 American soldiers, USMC General Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, so much as called him a liar, saying he had seen no evidence or intel to substantiate such a claim.

After the past six years, I can't imagine what would possess anyone to believe a single word emanating from the White House.


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stoirmeil 
Posted on 14-Feb-2007, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE (Macfive @ 09-Feb-2007, 08:14 PM)
I do not think an invasion of Iran is what they have planned. That would be pure stupidity and would certainly result in the president being impeached for sure. Also, we are not even capable of that right now - it would require a military buildup of immense proportions.

I'm thinking along the lines of a sustained air campaign - possibly taking out all of the nuclear R&D sites and setting the Iranian Regime 50 years back.

If Afghanistan and Iraq are not enough to demonstrate that the "Shock and Awe" approach doesn't work alone and even trying it is so monstrously destructive to infrastructure and civilian populations that it ought to be a war crime unto itself, AND that the follow-up ground invasion to preemptive air strikes in a huge, unfriendly terrain we don't know, against people we can't fathom, is a surreal take on hell, including the eternal nature of it, then --

Yes. The administration will do it again. The present regime has little to lose, since Republican supremacy stands to be overturned in the next election, and is obviously thinking it has a slim chance of justifying the mess they've made, as a parting "legacy," by succeeding with Iran where the other engagements have failed. Personally I think there is NO chance of doing it with Iran -- one definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect different results.

But I see the same mentality with students we counsel here at this school who can't pass enough math courses to major in science. Every new semester is a new beginning on a clean slate, in the short run, despite what the lengthening record of C-'s and D's and F's shows with those old courses they took before. And that's how they reason. In this style of thinking, depletion of troops, terrible morale, public opinion circling the toilet bowl and stone-cold hostility from even neutral and allied nations regarding this war mean nothing against the prospect of starting a whole, brand new front. Just like getting a D in Calculus I has nothing to do with your chances of acing Calc II. Weird fragmentation of cause and effect -- there is something truly nutty about it.

In many ways, Bush & Co., Inc. thinks a lot like a mediocre college kid with a weak memory of the past, a dim perception of the future, and the idea that a new start will have a different outcome, even with the same proven ineffective strategies and fundamental lack of aptitude for the job.

Emmet's point pulls me up short, as usual. The issue of nuclear deterrant is necessarily on a real, very short fuse now, and Israel is almost sure to be pulled in as the striking arm, or a significant part of it. We have not yet seen the beginning of World War III, only the run-up -- but that really will be it. Given the nature of all the available weapons, nuclear and otherwise, in five years or less a great deal of the ordinary fabric of everything we do will have changed radically, not just in the field but right on our own turf.
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John Clements 
Posted on 14-Feb-2007, 02:47 PM
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Hey guys…

I almost wish we found Weapons of Mass Destruction. At least then this war might be just. And to think that we’re considering doing it all over again, in Iran, is simply beyond forgiveness.

Of course you all know. That it was that kind of thinking. That brought down Napoleon. When he marched into Russia! And come to think of it. It also brought down the Soviet Union, in Afghanistan.

Have a good day, it might be the last.

JC


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Emmet 
Posted on 15-Feb-2007, 10:56 AM
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On 10 February unnamed US officials (aren't they always?) asserted to the New York Times (remember Judith Miller?) that deadly "explosively formed penetrators" which have killed US soldiers are being smuggled into Iraq with the complicity "at the highest levels" of the Iranian government. "Iran is a significant contributor to attacks on coalition forces."

(A) At least 60% of US deaths have occurred in areas where Sunni insurgents are active. Iran is Shi'ite; not Sunni; they passionately hate each other's guts (look at Baghdad). The Ba'athists and Sunnis are the historical enemy of Iran; it is extremely unlikely that Iran would provide them with weapons to overthrow their natural allies, the Shi'a dominated government of Iraq. Only 4% of US casualties have taken place in Shi'ite controlled areas in the provinces, while about 25% of total US fatalities have taken place in Baghdad, where both Shi'ites and Sunnis engaged in open civil war.

(B) Despite their ominous insinuations, "Explosively formed penetrators" are not some sinister new secret weapon. Shaped-charge munitions have been well-known since WW I, and are now as common as grass around the world, particularly in anti-tank munitions, including the venerable and ubiquitous RPG-7. Iraqis even make home-made ones for their roadside IED's.

By insisting that Iran is "providing material support" for fighters who were killing US troops, Bush is none-to-subtly proposing a de jure justification under the UN Charter for attacking Iran. As with his duplicitous justifications for attacking Iraq, Bush is actively spouting "alternative analysis" which is every bit as mendacious and deceitful.

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John Clements 
Posted on 15-Feb-2007, 11:49 AM
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Isn’t it at all suspicious, that the "markings" on the weapons. Supposedly smuggled into Iraq, from Iran, are printed in English. Could it be that those weapons are actually coming from Saudi Arabia?
You know the same place that most of the alleged hijackers on 9/11 came from.
JC
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John Clements 
Posted on 26-Feb-2007, 05:45 PM
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(A letter to the Editor of the NJ Record, February 22/07)

Dear Editor,

So, on questionable evidence we went to Iraq looking for weapons of mass destruction, and so far. All we’ve found is death, by improvised bombs, small arms, and shoulder mounted rockets. Of course that’s not to forget suicide bombers. And just the thought, of doing it all over again, in Iran, “once again, on flimsy evidence”, is simply unforgivable.

Don’t the words imperialism and hypocrisy, have meaning anymore? I know one thing, and that is. If I were an Iraqi, I would probably be an insurgent, and I’d be willing, to give you ten to one odds, that you would too.

John Clements
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Shadows 
Posted on 26-Feb-2007, 08:07 PM
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We all need to wake up , as some of us here have.
The times are not looking good for mankind and dear "king" is at the lead of this avenue of distruction ( humm, could it be he is the one predicted? )


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maisky 
Posted on 27-Feb-2007, 08:10 AM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ 26-Feb-2007, 07:07 PM)
We all need to wake up , as some of us here have.
The times are not looking good for mankind and dear "king" is at the lead of this avenue of distruction ( humm, could it be he is the one predicted? )

Careful, I remember a couple of folks catching lots of flack in the past for inferring that The Shrub is the AntiChrist. I get little satisfaction from having predicted all this stuff BEFORE the US invaded Iraq. sad.gif
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maisky 
Posted on 01-Mar-2007, 05:22 AM
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After looking closely at the interests of the closest groups backing the two main factions (besides the US) in Iraq, it is apparent, to me at least, that our best course would be to pull out, immediatley, in a controlled fashion and let Syria and Iran have their war with each other, with Iraq as the battlefield. The civil war and the war will occur whether we are there or not.

I dont see Shrub allowing control over his toy soldier set to go away. He doesn't care that the soldiers are real people, who die. He doesn't care that his play is crippling the US economy and leaving a huge debt for our grandchildren. He doesn't care that his toy soldier set is getting worn out. He still has 2 years left to play with it. Nobody can take it away from him! sad.gif
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Antwn 
Posted on 01-Mar-2007, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (maisky @ 01-Mar-2007, 05:22 AM)
After looking closely at the interests of the closest groups backing the two main factions (besides the US) in Iraq, it is apparent, to me at least, that our best course would be to pull out, immediatley, in a controlled fashion and let Syria and Iran have their war with each other, with Iraq as the battlefield.  The civil war and the war will occur whether we are there or not.


You may have a point Maisky. Both Iran and Syria will want to establish a government in Iraq amenable to their interests. Trouble is that whoever wins is trouble for the US. A larger fraternity of religious states after the bomb, hating Israel and the US is not a good prospect. I don't know at this point what chance democracy has/ever had in Iraq, whether failures are because of US bungling, nascent Iraqi government bungling, regional sister state "extracurricular activities" or combination thereof, but what I think is stupid is premature pullout or failure to provide additional troops to at least attempt to succeed at what we've started.

Whatever anyone says about the war's initial justifications, we remain responsible for the mess we've created. What does it say to the world for us to leave the situation in shambles now? The US will overthrow dictators at will and leave your country in chaos, good luck cleaning up after us? Hey, avoiding civil war, building a viable economic sovereign state with minimal outside interference is a learning experience boys and girls, you'll grow so much stronger for it. Yeah, aren't we the morally preeminent ones.... leave it to the good ole boys to ruin your nation in their national interest and be sloppy enough to give/gain nothing out of it. If our intention is to give democracy a chance, then lets do so. I agree that we should leave, but I'm disagreeing with your timeframe. At some point the Iraqis will have to take over, but its irresponsible and disingenuous of us to leave prior to ensuring their best chance for success.

To extend the theater to Iran is insanity, agreed. Rhetorical sabre rattling is a political and diplomatic tactic which is not always serious however. Moving military pieces around the geo-political chessboard may be prelude to war or just making our barking loud enough to disturb the neighbor's sleep.


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