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Celtic Radio Community > Kirk and Chapel > Christian Stereotyping |
Posted by: Elspeth 04-Mar-2006, 09:05 AM |
Is anyone else feeling stereotyped to be a Christian? As if we all were ultra-conservative, narrow minded men and women who thought they walked six inches above the ground so as to not dirty themselves in the filth of humankind. As if all Christian women spoke softly, wore sensible shoes and no make-up or jewlery, had hair the color of dishwater and personalities not much more interesting. As if Christian men were deluded fools who gave up being real men. As if the only thing we ever read was the Bible or Christian material. Only ever listened to monotone Christian dronings marketed as music. As if we were all ready at a moment's notice to bash anyone who disagreed with us over the head with our Bible's, shoot them with our Bible guns, hog tie and drag them into church, calling on the community to sit on them until they repented, saving them 'for their own good'. Where did this come from? The media? Television and movies? Evangelical Christianity seems swathed in shade of gray. The Amish at least get black and white. OK, just ranting..... But anyone else feel that this perception is being propogated? |
Posted by: celticfire 04-Mar-2006, 09:58 AM |
I agree--I have some non-Christian friends who don't quite understand the full meaning of it. I'm not exactly discriminated, but teased sometimes because, of course, Chrisianity+me=nun--funny! It's a very childish way to get laughs. |
Posted by: Raven 04-Mar-2006, 10:41 AM |
I feel that this perception is propogated. Often inocently by new Christians who are indoctinated to change the outer person in ways that are often on indication of the inside. By people who use their cloak of Christianity to justify all of their actions. In my business if someone tells me with in the first few minutes of conversation that they are a Christian, I automatically put up a sheild because of the high incidence of Slow Pay, unreliability, and no pay. Many making it difficult for the Christians of integrity. Hiding behind their faith saying that they are trusting God to pay their bills or to give them the money for their bank card to get the product in that they are wasting your time with telling you to put it on hold and calling every few days to see if you are still holding it. How can they be so arogant as to think that their misguided faith is a reason to put me at risk. Did God surely tell them to go out on a credit limb. If God did not provide, I think not. The media of course searches for the sensational or not in order for their news to be interesting. Regardless, as I am sure you know, these types were not made up but exist in abundance. It is not fair but I certainly understand they whys. When I became a Christian as an adult over 20 years ago, I had people in the Church constantly trying to dumb me down. Rather than answer straight forward simple questions, they would encorage me to just believe and not worry so much about the truth. The Bible talks of those that are perishing because they did not recieve a love of the Truth. I think this is very very excellant and strong wisdom regardless of what you may think of the Bible. It applies on so many levels. The Bible tells us that the Truth will set us free. I think that people of real faith are confused daily with those who are simply religeous hanger oners. That lack in real substance and conviction. (note that I am not saying that women who wear no make up or who wear sensible shoes fit this category ) But I think this category (having a form of Godliness but denying the power there of) is the category that puts the rest of us in this stereo type. Just my 2 pence Mikel |
Posted by: MacEoghainn 04-Mar-2006, 11:05 AM | ||
I'm wary of anyone who finds it necessary to tell me upon first introduction that they are a "Christian" (unless we are in a church). A Christian should live his/her faith and should not find it necessary to announce to each and every person they meet that they are one. Jesus said: Matthew 7:16-20 (KJV) 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. |
Posted by: Raven 04-Mar-2006, 12:24 PM |
Exactly my point Mr Mac None the less, it is where a lot of stereo typing comes from. Mikel |
Posted by: WizardofOwls 04-Mar-2006, 02:26 PM |
Well, um, I guess I'm in trouble with both you guys, because I usually try to work in the fact that I am a Christian in any conversation asap with anyone I have just met. I don't do it to try to pressure anyone into my way of thinking or anything like that. I do it for many reasons, but the main one being that I am VERY offended by curse words and harsh language, and it is my hope that if someone knows that I am a Christian, that - perhaps out of respect for me as a persoa - they will refrain from using it in my presence. I am also gauging their reactions to my statement. I want to make sure that any new person I meet is aware of who I am and what I am about in advance, thereby saving us from possibly embarrassing situations later - such as when a new employee told me a dirty joke at work only to find out later that I am a Christian. When you meet someone new, most people want to exchange personal details, at least on an acquaintance level ("So what do you enjoy doing?" etc.) Well, I am a Christian. It is what I do, and its who I am. The sooner other people learn that, the more they will know about me. |
Posted by: marti64 04-Mar-2006, 04:06 PM |
I have to agree with the Wiz on this one. Although I Don't necessarily announce that I am a Christian when I meet someone for the first time, I hope my actions wil let pple know of my religious beliefs. I believe that there is "something"(regardless of what it is called) that is guiding our lives. Short Story to illustrate: I was raised in a Congregational Church. I attended a small Catholic Women's College( although co-ed now. While walking around for the first time, and meeting the Sisters that ran the school, my Mom asked the Sister President how the school treated NON_CATHOLICS(like what, was she thinking, I don't know!!!!!) The Pres. stated something to the effect that all students were treated equally, regardless of faith!!! (DUH???) I preceded to join the Folk Group, attended Catholic Mass, sometimes even after attending my own sunday Services at home. POINT:::: I told the sisters that we all believe in the SAME GOD< and I preferred to be on a DIFFERENT CHANNEL!!!! I made many friends with the sisters at school, some of which have gone on to be with the "MAN UPSTAIRS"!!! I hope they are watching me!!! MARTI |
Posted by: Raven 04-Mar-2006, 05:28 PM | ||
Hey Wiz I don't think anyone said you are in trouble for what you do, only that this is where some of the stereotyping comes from. I personally find that I do not need to anounce my faith in a first meeting do to the reasons sited by Mr Mac. I have done it both ways and find that if there is going to be awkwardness or embarassment that the instant introduction of my faith seems to cause it more and at the least results in my being instantly on the outside. Not that I personally care about in or out, but in order to relate to people and be in good comunication I find it better to be on the in. I think the stereotyping issue is quite probably the reason for the reserve that is to be found as a result of the instant introduction of my faith. I don't keep it a secret either. Most people figure it out in short order. I became a Christian 20 years ago as I said, as an adult, and it seemed (and still seems) that Christians have a hard time accepting that making Jesus your Lord can actually be a totally rational decision with no emotional input what so ever, and that you can walk a walk of faith that is logical and rational. The supernatural is not necesarilly the unexplainable. (but it can be) If it makes you happy by all means I'm not hating. That is just what I have percieved to be the reason for much of the stereo typing. All the best Mikel |
Posted by: oldraven 04-Mar-2006, 06:13 PM |
Simply put, Zealots ruin it for the rest. There are people who put religion far above faith, and that is where the idiotic actions and beliefs come from. Mikel hit the nail on the head with the ignorance of new believers, and stuborn old doctrine dictated people. There is a fine line between what is written in the book, and what people can twist out of it. And, of course, there is 2000 years of maniacs hiding behind the religions that the sane Christians have to try and burry in the past. The problem really is modern day people's lack of ability to tell the difference. |
Posted by: MacEoghainn 05-Mar-2006, 08:50 AM | ||||
Wiz, Ditto what Brother Mike said. As Mike reminded us this thread is about Christian stereotyping. There are lots of evil people in this world that will use any method to obtain what they want, including telling you they are a Christian (or for that matter tell you just about anything else that may gain your confidence so they can take advantage of you or rob you blind). Here's an example I'm personally familiar with: The business I work for (before the mega-corporation bought us) was an locally owned and operated Low-voltage contractor. All bookkeeping was done in the local office (billing/invoicing, paying vendors, rent, utilities, ect.....) by a "lady" (lady is really not a good description of this person) we'll call Mary. This "lady" had the complete confidence of the owner (a good Southern Baptist like me, well at least as good as we Southern Baptists can be {we try}, a member of the Church my parents and siblings were baptized in) because she was a pastor's wife (different denomination) and a "pillar" of her church. Well this "pillar" of the church tried to take the company for every penny she could get and put it out of business to cover her tracks (the company she worked for before also went bankrupt, I'm betting she did the samething there)! She hired her daughter as an assistant and paid her daughter and herself two paychecks every week, paid her mortgage and car payment(s), paid all her credit cards, bought boats and an RV all with the company's money. The company almost went bankrupt (this is a company that at the time was doing 5-7 million dollars a year in business with about 25 employees). People got laid off, pay raises were non-existent, pay cuts were in the works all because of this "good Christian". The world does not judge us by our statements, but by our actions, and these are the kind of people we have hung around our necks (even if we don't deserve it) when we announce to the world we are a Christian. So I'll repeat the words of Jesus: Matthew 7:16 (KJV) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? |
Posted by: MacEoghainn 05-Mar-2006, 08:52 AM | ||||
Wiz, Ditto what Brother Mike said. As Mike reminded us this thread is about Christian stereotyping. There are lots of evil people in this world that will use any method to obtain what they want, including telling you they are a Christian (or for that matter they'll say anything else that may gain your confidence so they can take advantage of you or rob you blind). Here's an example I'm personally familiar with: The business I work for (before the mega-corporation bought us) was an locally owned and operated Low-voltage contractor. All bookkeeping was done in the local office (billing/invoicing, paying vendors, rent, utilities, ect.....) by a "lady" (lady is really not a good description of this person) we'll call Mary. This "lady" had the complete confidence of the owner (a good Southern Baptist like me, well at least as good as we Southern Baptists can be {we try}, a member of the Church my parents and siblings were baptized in) because she was a pastor's wife (different denomination) and a "pillar" of her church. Well this "pillar" of the church tried to take the company for every penny she could before putting it out of business to cover her tracks! She hired her daughter as an assistant and paid her daughter and herself two paychecks every week, paid her mortgage and car payment(s), paid all her credit cards, bought boats and an RV all with the company's money. The company almost went bankrupt (this is a company that at the time was doing 5-7 million dollars a year in business with about 25 employees). People got laid off, pay raises were non-existent, pay cuts were in the works all because of this "good Christian". The world does not judge us by our statements, but by our actions, and these are the kind of people we have hung around our necks (even if we don't deserve it) when we announce to the world we are a Christian. So I'll repeat the words of Jesus: Matthew 7:16 (KJV) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? |
Posted by: Shadows 05-Mar-2006, 09:15 AM |
I, being non-christian, want to interject some thoughts here... 1st off , don't try to convert me! The thought that christians seem to have is to convert the heathens! I am not a heathen, I believe in a creator and his creations. I do Not need to be preached at by those who think that their way is the only way. Salvation of those that already have more of a handle on what the creator is about turns folks off. These are the things that cause that sterotype to supported as real. Find out what I believe before you preach.. I may be able to teach you some things. These are just my opinions, and mine only. |
Posted by: MacEoghainn 05-Mar-2006, 02:10 PM | ||||||||||||||||||
I believe the original intent of this thread was to discuss stereotyping of Christians as people who pretend to be morally superior when in all actuality they’re just a bunch of hypocrites or con men trying to put something over on someone. But now we’ve finally found were the proverbial rubber hits the road or the s@&% hits the fan in the opinion of a number of people with these two posts. I think oldraven was hinting at it with his Zealot comment and then our beloved curmudgeon, Shadows, in his own immutable way, said it like it is: to some people the stereotypical Christian is what most Christians should be and more than a few people don't like them. I don’t know how a Christian can be a Christian and not, when given the opportunity, share the Gospel with his neighbors. The last words from Jesus before he ascended to heaven were:
If we won’t tell our neighbors about the God’s free gift what good is it? Who are our neighbors anyway? Jesus answered that question this way:
Now there may be those here among us who may actually enjoy being beat up, stripped naked, and thrown in a ditch (both literally and figuratively) but when someone happens by and offers them a hand what cause do they have to take offence. If you like it there just politely say: No thanks, I’m happy were I am. If, as that person departs, they say they’ll pray for you is that enough reason to take further offence? Now Shadows, I know for a fact I have never attempted to “convert” you but since you entered the CR.net virtual church and yelled don't try to help me (I think I’ll ask Macfive to post a warning at the entrance: Christians talking about Christ inside, Enter at your own Risk!) I consider you fair game! Here it goes: Shadows, God has a gift for you and all you have to do is reach out and take it. Here it is in his words not mine:
|
Posted by: Dogshirt 05-Mar-2006, 03:40 PM |
I have to agree with Shadows. As a member of a non-christian religion The LAST thing I want is someone trying to tell me that MY choice is wrong and HIS is right! I was raisedin a christian household, but after I left home and entered the world on my own I realized that it was wrong for ME. Since I have always studied the people of the Northern Plains, (part of my heritage) It was onl natural that I came into contact with their religion. The more I studied the more it made sense to ME. But I only tell people about it if they WANT to know, and I DON"T want to hear about their's. This trying to convert is possibly the most annoying thing I run into. My $.02 |
Posted by: Raven 05-Mar-2006, 03:49 PM |
NO offense to anyone but I agree with Mr Mac that posting off topic in a Christian Forum saying you don't want anyone telling you about Christianity is asking for it. I don't personally believe in shoving something someone doesn't want down their throat regardless of how helpful it may be But I wouldn't go to a Pagan forum and tell them I didn't want them to tell me about their spirituality if telling people about it was a part of their belief. Personal Belief is a 2 way street. My 2 pennies also (almost a most embarassing mispelling their) Mikel BTW I have never called anyone a heathen apart from my sisters kids |
Posted by: MacEoghainn 05-Mar-2006, 04:41 PM | ||
I forgot to ask, where can I get one of them there "Bible Guns"? It might look nice in my gun case next to Remington 700. |
Posted by: MacEoghainn 05-Mar-2006, 05:13 PM | ||
Dogshirt, Everything I said to Shadows also applies to you. If you like it in your ditch I'm not going to climb in and drag you out against your will (at least not until Elspeth tells me where I can buy me a "Bible Gun", when I get me one all bets are off ). |
Posted by: Dogshirt 05-Mar-2006, 05:46 PM |
My choice is NOT a ditch, but that which sustains me! |
Posted by: Elspeth 06-Mar-2006, 01:16 AM |
Hey MacE Haven't you ever been to the 'secret' Christian meetings where they brainwash us, knock 100 IQ points out of our heads and teach us to annoy the crap out of people by sharing our meaningless drivel with them? That's where you get the Bible guns. |
Posted by: haynes9 06-Mar-2006, 06:39 AM |
Interesting posts all! Dogshirt, you always do a great job of provoking thinking! I really believe that some stereotyping is earned. As a missionary to Native Americans, I have had to live down the actions of others with which I had no connection. Because of their hypocrisy, it was assumed that I was just another hypocrite in the mix. I agree with all who have said living out your faith is important. I also agree that in order to see someone saved, you eventually must talk about it! But if your walk doesn't back up your talk, you are wasting time. I am in Florida right now (good news) for a Missions Conference (without my family-Bad News ). On the flight, my faith naturally came up. When someone asks what I do for a living, there is no way to avoid the subject, for which I am glad! It gave me opportunity to witness and also fellowship with other believers. Stereotyping is common on our Reservation. Our people tell me storied about how they are considered by some family as "lass Navajo" because they have taken up the "white man's religion." ( Jesus, of course, was not white, but that's another topic for anther time). Our folks have leaned that there is a difference from having a bold faith and an "obnoxious" attitude for faith. A Christian is no better than any pother person. We just have assurance of our eternal destiny based on the merits of another - Jesus Christ. I will freely admit to being a heathen. I am a heathen saved by His wonderful grace and I am so excited about it that I want to share it with others. I am not trying to step on others beliefs, but you talk about what excites you and means the most to you. I've rambled enough.Everyone have a great day! |
Posted by: Raven 06-Mar-2006, 07:11 AM |
Good points Haynes Great to know that you are out there, and you pointed something out that I think might be a point of contention between some here that need not be. I don't think the point is to avoid sharing faith, or to be afraid to. But the stereo typing often comes when people open the conversation with "I'm a Christian" then when you say "great I am too" you can get a multitude of responses from "let me give you the third degree to see how good a Christian to are" to "instand proselytising" Just one place where the stereotypes come from. I know a lot of people in the Mission field and I will have to say that to date I have not met one who fits that goal. Maybe I have just been blessed, or maybe the people that make that sacrifice are very serious about their faith at least 99% of the time. I myself do missionary work but I have a hard time thinking of myself as a missionary as I work in home missions. But the topic question was does anyone else feel stereo typed as a Christian and do we feel it is being propogated and why. God Bless Mikel |
Posted by: Elspeth 06-Mar-2006, 07:36 AM |
I guess what bugs me is people who claim to be open minded trying to shove me into a niche that doesn't begin to define me. Find out what I believe before defining me. That and people who go to sunny Florida when it is spittin' snow again up here. |
Posted by: Dogshirt 06-Mar-2006, 07:42 AM |
Now, now Elspeth. It sounds like he was DRAGGED kicking and screaming to Fl. |
Posted by: Raven 06-Mar-2006, 08:46 AM |
Was he now??? It is nice if people care enough to know what you are about instead of immediatley assuming you are close minded, think you are better than them and stupid on top of it because of your spirituallity. I'm sure the snow doesn't help, it certainly makes my joints ache. Peace Mikel |
Posted by: Elspeth 06-Mar-2006, 09:00 AM |
Let's All Go To Florida!!!! |
Posted by: MacEoghainn 06-Mar-2006, 04:16 PM | ||
1) If you are coming don't forget to close the door. It gets cold down here when you "Yankees" leave the door open. 2) I know a lot of Floridians who are moving north because they don't like it here anymore. I guess to each his own. 3) Don't forget that if I pick up a "Bible Gun" at the next secret meeting none you may be safe. |
Posted by: Dogshirt 06-Mar-2006, 06:36 PM |
Is it legal to take those across state lines? |
Posted by: Raven 06-Mar-2006, 08:31 PM | ||
I think you can get a permit if you can show that you only plan to use it in self defense, or if you carry large sums of money and are suceptable to fleecing. |
Posted by: oldraven 06-Mar-2006, 08:45 PM |
To clear things up, I have been a stereotyped Christian a good many times in my life. It was a constant battle (Yes, past tense. I am one person who is looking for answers, unwilling to ignore the questions.). I was just pointing out some common excuses. What does, to this day, bother me about a lot of devout Christians, is the tendancy to measure for themselves who is a Christian and who is not, by their own yardstick. Judgement is one thing we are supposed to stay away from. We all know that verse. |
Posted by: haynes9 06-Mar-2006, 10:31 PM | ||
Now look, SOMEONE has to suffer for righteousness! Do you have any idea had bad the sunburn hurts that i have after the boat trip I was on today ? And to think I was going to send photos to everyone! God post, Raven. We are truly all missionaries wherever the Lord has us. Even those of us suffering in Florida right now ! I'll get back to frost northern Arizona next week! |
Posted by: Elspeth 07-Mar-2006, 06:43 AM | ||
I know!! It's bad enough being stereotyped by peopole outside the faith, but to be shoved into a niche designed by fellow Christians. Words fail me. (but not for long ) But, I try and remember many do it out of love. Baby love. A lack of interest and ability to grow in the knowledge and spirit of Christ, but in a miminized way, a way of love. Christians withstood being transformed by the world by banding together and circling the wagons. What got lost in the circling for the protection of the faith is the openmindedness to allow others in who didn't fit the same pattern. And hence why there are so many denominations. Everyone searching for a place where they fit. So, oldraven, yep there will always be those of us who don't fit in. But, hey, we're in good company. Jesus didn't fit in either. And, as for you Mr. Haynes.... ministering to the fish were you? A sunburn in chilly March. You poor baby. |
Posted by: haynes9 07-Mar-2006, 07:34 AM | ||
This is tough! I don't even have any aloe vera, Elspeth! The ministry is tougher than I thought! As for ministering to the fish, the Word says we will be fishers of . . . (Hey, I know it says "of men," but that interpretation does not fit my current application ). Excuse me, but I have to go lie down |
Posted by: Elspeth 07-Mar-2006, 07:50 AM |
No aloe vera in FLORIDA???? You do have it rough. |
Posted by: oldraven 07-Mar-2006, 09:43 AM | ||
Very good point. |
Posted by: Raven 07-Mar-2006, 12:41 PM |
I personally believe that not fitting in is the higher ground |
Posted by: Nova Scotian 28-Mar-2006, 03:00 PM | ||
I do believe we are ALL guilty of pointing the finger. Reciently I've had to pull the plank from my eye. All I can say is thank God for "Amazing Grace". |
Posted by: Nova Scotian 28-Mar-2006, 03:00 PM | ||
I do believe we are ALL guilty of pointing the finger. Reciently I've had to pull the plank from my eye. All I can say is thank God for "Amazing Grace". |
Posted by: Siobhan Blues 29-Mar-2006, 09:59 AM |
Wow, what a fascinating topic this is! And what interesting responses too... cool. It's often been the comment of people I've met that they don't attend church because they witnessed some professing Christian do something crooked like cheat their company, or cheat on their spouse... or buy liquor, which is actually what my husband's coworker told him earlier this week. We attend church regularly but are careful to nurture our personal relationship with Christ thru Bible reading & such. So we consider ourselves Christians first and foremost, and Baptists second - know what I mean? Anyway, my husband encourages others to attend a church of their choice but will discuss what Christ has done for him personally too. Well, he works with this one guy who never talks about faith or church at all and Reid was curious as to what he believes; so he mentioned our church, something about what was going on there, then asked this guy if he went anywhere. That cut loose the flood, man. This guy said he's totally turned off church and Christianity because he once saw the pastor of the church buy alcohol on Saturday night. We wonder if there's more to the story and don't see it as our job to judge the pastor or this coworker on his attitude... but the coworker sees the pastor as hypocritical. Reid told the guy that he enjoys an occasional beer, he said, but he didn't elaborate on what else they discussed. To turn away from church because of one pastor's action makes me think the coworker sure is missing out on something great because of what he perceives to be a transgression. That opens a whole can of worms: are Christians supposed to drink or not?? Jesus turned the water into wine, not soda pop or fruit juice... personally I've seen a very negative side of drinking and I simply don't like the taste of the stuff so I very very rarely have any kind of alcohol. But I also searched the Bible once for every reference to drinking and it never once says its forbidden: it consistently says 'don't do it in excess.' So I'll abide by that! We Christians do have to deal with a lot of stereotyping, but if we are well grounded in Bible teaching at least we can be armed with a Biblical response to the accusations. |
Posted by: Nova Scotian 31-Mar-2006, 08:06 PM |
Sometimes we as Christians forget we are still human. |
Posted by: Nova Scotian 31-Mar-2006, 08:07 PM |
Sometimes we as Christians forget we are still human. |
Posted by: Celtic cat 01-Apr-2006, 10:55 AM | ||
You don't want to go to Florida. It is a chilly 70 degrees here right now.... Anyway, I don't immediately profess my faith, but if someone asks I will tell them. Faith usually comes up with college friends because we are all taking classes like world religions... which is an excellent open minded course at my school. I was trying to minister to my mother and a friend for a time, but I just can't anymore. I have made my peace and they have the right to full heartedly believe what they want to believe as long as they truely believe it and they aren't just doing it for kicks. We as Christians believe we hold the absolute truth on many aspects of faith but so do many other religions who are even more steadfast in holding to their beliefs. So I ask myself, how is it any different from someone in another religion telling us that we are wrong and that they have the absolute truth to salvation. Oh wait one more thing...I do get stereotyped but it is only when I ask people not to get drunk or not to do hash in a vehicle. my 2 pence if we all give some more 2 pence we are going to have alot of money. |