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Celtic Radio Community > Philosophy & Science > Does The Truth Matter

Posted by: Raven 23-Nov-2003, 05:54 PM

I thought that this question might bring out some more stimulating conversation

I will start by making this statement that regardless of what you call it there is truth.

First let me qualify truth. I can make 2 statements first my hair is black, second my hair is brown. Both are true because I dye my brown hair black. So sometimes truth is realtive and can be tricky or subjective.

Sometimes truth is absolute. Every person who was born in 1600 is dead to day and has left their corporeal existence behind. This is absolutely true.

What I want to talk about is how important that the truth is to each of us individually. (those of us that believe there is such an animal

)

I personally want to know the truth in everything and I am not looking for a truth that fits what I want is to know the truth even if it is not what I want it to be.

With this knowledge comes empowerment. For example if I am a big jerk to my wife (provided that is not my goal

) I want to know the truth about it so that I can change the behavior that makes me a jerk.

If I am blowing up car engines because I never check the oil and continue to run the engine dry. I would want to know that because it would save me tremendous expense in the future even though it would be at the expense of feeling stupid right now.

I know that these examples may seem a bit trivial and remedial but I think it is a good starting point and it illustrates at least why I think the truth is always important.

Finally I believe as important as the truth is to me, it should always be shared in love and never used in a destructive fashion to tear another person down.

I look forward to your comments.

Peace

Mikel

Posted by: High Plains Drifter 23-Nov-2003, 08:02 PM

I find that most of what I do that I consider important is in the search of truth. Most of my time is spent on unimportant but necessary things like earning a living, keeping my life in order, and being socially acceptable.
I find absolute truths to be elusive things except for some physical things and those are possibly not truly absolute as what is considered to be truth by most today may be proven otherwise in the future. I spent most of my life thinking that science would provide truth but have come to the realization that science creates more questions than it answers.

I don't know how important I think truth is but the quest for truth is the ting that keeps me going. Raven, I don't know if this is what you were looking for when you posed the question but that is where I'm at today.

Posted by: Raven 23-Nov-2003, 09:47 PM

QUOTE (High Plains Drifter @ Nov 23 2003, 09:02 PM)

Raven, I don't know if this is what you were looking for when you posed the question but that is where I'm at today.

Just exactly what you did Drifter. I like to see what others think. Thanks for the response.

Keep on searching you will find what you are looking for.

Peace

Mikel

Posted by: Raven_Whitefang 23-Nov-2003, 11:32 PM

I feel that the truth is a very important thing. Some people cannot handle the truth and go off the deep end when you tell them, others consider what is said or done truthfully and consider what needs to be done. I do not lie, even if there is a good thing at the end of it, as in a surprise. Although I dont tell what it is, I will be honest enough to say it is a surprise. Lies only cause problems, which add up to bigger problems.

The Truth in life...always searching for that truth, and it is something that no one will ever fully know until we have passed into a more enligntened plane.

Posted by: tartangal 24-Nov-2003, 02:22 AM

I guess I do believe in truth, and I try to be honest, BUT,sometimes I lie ,It may be because I am sparing someones feelings... Do they really have to know that an item of clothing does not suit AFTER they have bought it? Or that a loved one does not want to take them home?
As for myself, call it cowardice if you like,but I REALLY don't want to hear how crap I look today,or that my conversation is dull,dull,dull.My poor self confidence wouldn't take it. I think that sometimes truth is used as a weapon and an excuse to hurt people, feeelings have to be taken into consideration.

Posted by: Elspeth 24-Nov-2003, 03:04 AM

Though it is not necessary to say all that we think. (I agree, tartangal, I don't think it's necessary for someone to tell me I look like crap in the interest of 'truth') That to me is not truth, but a club disguised as 'truth'.

I do not lie. I believe in complete truth, with myself above all. Not always comfortable. In fact often really, really uncomfortable. But, unless you identify your flaws and shortcomings, there is no chance in evolving out of them.

Now, just because I look for truth in everything and everyone doesn't mean I speak upon what I see. Discretion is the better part of valor. I won't lie, but I have learned to carefully word responses in order to not hurt someone's feeling when it wasn't necessary. (i.e. - Q - how do you like my dress? A - I've never seen anything like it.) In this senerio, I didn't like the dress, but it wasn't necessary to hurt the other person's feeling because my opinion differed from theirs.

However, if my husband or children are being jerks, I tell them of it. (sometimes in love, sometimes in frustration - sorry, I'm human. ) But I am not doing a service to the people I am in relationship with to not speak the truth. If someone is my friend, they will allow me complete honesty and be completely honest with me. Again, often really, really uncomfortable, but it is the only way to true friendship. And the level of intimacy that results is worth it.

I cannot bear to be lied to, even those 'little white lies' that some believe are necessary to grease the wheels of society. When I discover I've been lied to, even in the smallest of things, I feel betrayed and I never again put the same level of trust in that person. I tell my kids there is nothing they can do that will upset me more than to lie to me. As one who has been lied to in relationship, I cannot emphasize enough the damaging effects of lies. Truth, at every juncture, would have been better. For most things come out eventually. All avoiding the truth does is postpone the fallout. And it makes the ultimate discovery of the truth all the more painful. If my child cheats on a test, that is bad enough. If they cheat and lie about it, now there are two issues involved.

But most of all, it is most important for me to see the truth about myself and my motivations. Why we do what we do is so much more important than what we do.

The truth shall set you free.

Posted by: Raven 24-Nov-2003, 12:17 PM

I think where I try to be brutal with the truth is when I look inward.

And even though I always want to know the truth about me I always appreciate it when it is given in a gentle way

I always strive to speak the truth (in love of course

) as I would want it spoken to me, but it can suprize me what will come out of my mouth on the spur of the moment about myself. I guess that is ego at work(perhaps more exageration) and a flaw that I need to watch for. I hate to then have to find a way to retract a statement with out damaging my ego

but a case like this will always bug me until I do.

I feel the same about people being dishonest as Elspeth does (probably the reason I am bothered if I spout off an inaccuracy) in my line of work (I sell wholesale musical products) if I find someone is not telling me the truth on one thing I immediately discount much else that they say. I have a reputation with my customers of being honest even if it sometimes means losing a sale so that they can get a product that will work.

I find that people that do not trust me or think that I am truthful are quite often not to be trusted themselves.

Like Andy Lucy says (and I think this is hip)

Just my tuppence

Mikel

Posted by: Annabelle 24-Nov-2003, 12:22 PM

Most of the time I think we all speak the Truth. But sometimes the "Truth" is colored by a person's baggage..they believe it to be the truth...
Annabelle

Posted by: Raven 24-Nov-2003, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (Annabelle @ Nov 24 2003, 01:22 PM)

Most of the time I think we all speak the Truth. But sometimes the "Truth" is colored by a person's baggage..they believe it to be the truth...
Annabelle

Good point Annabelle!

I think for me this is another thing to cut through what I percieve as truth and get down to what's real? (I think I saw Celeste make this point in another thread?)

Slainte

Mikel

Posted by: myriad 25-Nov-2003, 04:50 PM

A person can tell the truth without hurting others, like Elspeth stated. And sometimes it is simply okay to say "I don't want to discuss it." - - probably not if their asking about their clothes though

they might take that the wrong (umm right) way. When a person is wearing a suit or haircut that I think looks bad or I think that their boring that is my opinion, not a truth. (I believe this was also hit on by Annabelle and Raven). It is the truth that I don't like it, but that doesn't make it bad or wrong or ugly. It is probably the truth that others will or would like it.

There are in life some certain truths (realities, if you want to put it that way). Is there Light and Dark? Truthfully, yes, natural light is available because of the sun, the moon, the stars, and unnatural light is available because of flashlights, lightbulbs, electricity, you get the point. When you turn out (off) the light it gets dark. We may perceive these two things differently because of the specific understanding that we have of the words. But, in the language that they are written in, they have meanings and to say that they don't exist, considering their excepted meanings would be unrealistic or untruthful.

If you look at words from old texts, and discover that in their original manuscripts they were written in another language, you can look back at that language and with the help of a good librarian and some good books (or the internet) you can determine those words' original meanings. This will lead you to the truths that are written in that book, whatever it may be.

In any religion (if I can discuss that here) one cannot always look to other people to find the truth. As was stated before, many people have views that have been constructed by their life experiences and not their studies. The facts are found in the studies. If you believe in a book, and believe that book was written by or under the inspiration of a deity, then it is the book that you should look for your truths in. If you do not believe in either of those then you must ask yourself if you believe in yourself. Do you exist? Do the trees exist? Are we in the Matrix? Other people can't answer that for you. They can lead you to answers. Should you trust them? What if they're wrong? That is why you study for yourself what they are presenting to you. Is it really worth the time and effort? Some would say yes, some would say no. I say yes. But that is my opinion. And you should decide for yourself.

Please feel free to e-mail me if you have a response that you don't want to post in forum. Click my name and it will lead you there.

Posted by: JaneyMae 16-Dec-2003, 04:46 PM

QUOTE (Annabelle @ Nov 24 2003, 12:22 PM)

Most of the time I think we all speak the Truth. But sometimes the "Truth" is colored by a person's baggage..they believe it to be the truth...
Annabelle

Well said! I must agree with this. However I've know people who wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in the rear. I have had students who are compulsive liars. They couldn't tell the truth even if it meant saving their lives. Now, why would that be?

Posted by: maisky 16-Dec-2003, 06:34 PM

QUOTE (Raven @ Nov 23 2003, 06:54 PM)

So sometimes truth is realtive and can be tricky or subjective.

Sometimes truth is absolute. Every person who was born in 1600 is dead to day and has left their corporeal existence behind. This is absolutely true.

That they died is true. But, many religeous traditions would suggest that they didn't stay that way. So, are they alive today. Truth is indeed tricky. It is important that we each judge truth for ourselves and do not just accept another persons version. It is hard to accept responsiblity for ourselves.

Posted by: Raven 16-Dec-2003, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (maisky @ Dec 16 2003, 07:34 PM)

QUOTE (Raven @ Nov 23 2003, 06:54 PM)

perhaps I should have been more specific than "left their corporeal existence behind" let me put this another way. Their bodies are all rotting in the ground. (nothing to do with their spiritual existence) Although biblical Christian faith is that all will be physically resurected at some future point to eternal life.

Anyone is free to deny this or believe that truth is only what we want to believe it is as I know there are people that believe there is no substance to the our world at all but that the solid world as we know it is only illusion. But that does not change what our senses give evidence of.

My point over all would be that if you believe something to be different than the truth (as is everyones perogative and I am by no means giving quantative definitions of truth here) it doesn't change it.

I personally believe that searching for the truth and accepting it even if you don't like it is the best approach. To live in denial can only eventually cause one harm.

I like the attitude of the serenity prayer
Grant me the courage to change what I can
Accept what I cannot
and the wisdom to know the difference (paraphrased by Mikel)

my tupence

Mikel

Posted by: maisky 17-Dec-2003, 07:30 AM

This is a particularly good topic, Sir Bird. Seeing the truth is very hard. That is one part of my Buddhist practice that I disliked intensly, that of looking at my own life with clear sight. I did not like what I saw. I could not POSSIBLY be that big of jerk, could I?

We each have to come up with our own approach to truth. Some people perceive it filtered through sit-coms or soaps. Some have it spoon fed by Rush L. (A Seriously screwed up drug addict). Some get it from a variety of religious writtings. As a kid, I figured that comic books had all the truth I would ever need.
Go figure.

Posted by: Elspeth 17-Dec-2003, 07:55 AM

QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Dec 16 2003, 05:46 PM)

However I've know people who wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in the rear. I have had students who are compulsive liars. They couldn't tell the truth even if it meant saving their lives. Now, why would that be?

This is a good question JaneyMae. I wonder. Is it parents? environment? a society that teaches getting what you want out of life is all that's important? laziness? or is it sometimes pysiological? A genetic abnormality? Or maybe 'the devil made me do it'

Posted by: JaneyMae 22-Dec-2003, 06:27 PM

QUOTE (Elspeth @ Dec 17 2003, 07:55 AM)

With most of my beasties -- er....students, I have found that they follow their parents' lead. Also, they lie and their parents say, "If my baby says it's so then it must be true," teaching the kids that they can lie and get away with it. Our society also teaches that you must get all you can and the rest of humanity be damned.

I always used "the devil made me do it" to keep from getting a taste of my dad's belt. Now I just try to keep my mouth shut...............except when I'm in here

Posted by: Raven 22-Dec-2003, 08:59 PM

and when kids are taught to lie the only ones they end up fooling are themselves because it is very difficult to conceal the tangled web once it is revealed in the morning dew

I believe that in the end because they are not able to face up to the truth on any level it becomes harmful on every level

Posted by: maisky 23-Dec-2003, 07:53 AM

QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Dec 22 2003, 07:27 PM)

I'll tell! I'll tell!!

Posted by: JaneyMae 23-Dec-2003, 04:25 PM

Pleae don't tell Dad!!!! I'll clean your room if you won't

Posted by: JaneyMae 23-Dec-2003, 04:25 PM

Pleae don't tell Dad!!!! I'll clean your room if you won't

Posted by: JaneyMae 23-Dec-2003, 04:25 PM

Pleae don't tell Dad!!!! I'll clean your room if you won't

Posted by: maidsmum 27-Dec-2003, 11:48 AM

My friends mum used to say "I'd rather someone was a thief than a liar, because eventually you will catch the thief out".

I think that the truth is very important - if someone is upfront and honest (diplomatically and tactfully) then that is always better than a lie. Even if it is to spare your feelings, things can be put in a way that doesn't cause too much offence - how much worse would you feel in the long run when you find out the truth??

There are degrees of truth, depending on our own selves, my interpretation would be different to someone elses - but this happens in all aspects of our lives and there is not a lot you can do about it!!

In saying that I cant say I don't ever lie. Some lies are easy (eg knocking a few pounds off the price of stuff!), some are done just to make life a bit easier, rather than get into a row with others, keep the peace, bite your tongue and go along with a lie.

Guess I'm sitting on the fence on this one then!

Posted by: Elspeth 30-Dec-2003, 10:03 AM

QUOTE (Raven @ Dec 22 2003, 09:59 PM)

it is very difficult to conceal the tangled web once it is revealed in the morning dew

That is an insightfully beautiful line, Raven. Is it yours?

Posted by: Raven 30-Dec-2003, 10:21 AM

QUOTE (Elspeth @ Dec 30 2003, 11:03 AM)

QUOTE (Raven @ Dec 22 2003, 09:59 PM)

it is very difficult to conceal the tangled web once it is revealed in the morning dew

That is an insightfully beautiful line, Raven. Is it yours?

Dang Elspeth ---you are right that is a great line

and it is mine --- I think you will find that in a song soon. Thanks for pointing it out. I just typed it in and forgot it,,, I can hardly believe that I wrote something like that. It just goes to show you that even a blind pig (or raven) finds and acorn every now and then.

Thank you so much for pointing this out to me.

Mikel

Posted by: Elspeth 30-Dec-2003, 10:26 AM

And I was going to add if it was yours you had to use it somewhere, it struck right to the heart as soon as I read it, but you're a step ahead of me.

I think that warrents a song all its own.

Dew on the Web has a nice ring.

Posted by: JaneyMae 30-Dec-2003, 12:04 PM

QUOTE (maidsmum @ Dec 27 2003, 11:48 AM)

My friends mum used to say "I'd rather someone was a thief than a liar, because eventually you will catch the thief out".

Your mum was an insightful lady! And that's the truth

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 30-Dec-2003, 01:04 PM

QUOTE

My friends mum used to say "I'd rather someone was a thief than a liar, because eventually you will catch the thief out".

I agree this is very true.

The truth is a very tricky subject...I've read everyone's responses and opinions...

In my opinion the "Truth" is soild and never changes...only our perception or understanding of that "Truth" changes. So "Truth" is faithful. A wise man once said, "Seek and you shall find...knock and it shall be opened to you...You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free indeed"...

Now to be honest with a friend about something touchy or embarassing---this is my take...
It has been said, 'Open rebuke is better than secret love'...'Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.' I think the motivation of your heart should gage whether you should be totally honest. Are you telling your friend to help them or are you being critical?

Just my three pence worth,
Roisin

Posted by: single speed 30-Dec-2003, 10:23 PM

The truth reveals that we, as a race are human. We are mortal. Our humanity reveals that we are both weak and strong, kind and sinister, selfish and helpful. In the context of our envirnoment, one human is no better than the other.

Our vanity gets us into as much troublle as our lies. If we ask a question that we know that the answer may not be waht we want to hear, then we should not ask it, unless we are willing to correct what is revealed by the answer.

By lying in the context of disservice to another, we dehumanize those that we lie to, especially ourselves. If we use the truth for the same reason ("as a club"), we again dehumanize.

The human condition is beset with lots of baggage. Looking inward to discover the truth about ourselves is a way of opening and inventorying and later, disgarding some of our baggage. Yet even this discovery doe'nt make us better tnhan another person. we are still equal.

Learning the truth is difficult. Doing something about it is a gift.

terence

PS Fantastic thread, Raven. Thanks

Posted by: maisky 31-Dec-2003, 08:02 AM

The biggest problem I see is that we are ALL lires. We lie primarily to ourselves, but there you are...A clear view of reality is rare and difficult. Our conclusions based on the view through a "clouded glass" are lies, as often as not. As for "absolute" truths, the universe just doesn't work that way.

After studying philosophy, social sciences, physical sciences, and most of all, higher mathematics, all questions wind up having multiple valid answers. Confusing huh?

Posted by: Elspeth 31-Dec-2003, 10:09 AM

I know I already responded, but this is bugging me.

When we lie to people to 'protect' them, who are we really protecting? Them or ourselves?

To follow up on what Terence was saying, we aren't doing those we lie to a service. In fact, I find being lied to horrifically patronizing. It is that other person deciding what I can or cannot handle. Deciding for me what is best for me. Taking it upon themselves to label me too infantile to handle the truth.

Then what happens when the truth comes out? Do I feel 'protected'? No, I feel humiliated and angry. Very angry.

I tell my family I can handle anything but being lied to. Lying ruins relationships, erodes trust and separates people. And I mean all types of lying. From the big ones to the little white variety.

I am not a comfortable person to be around, for I make a point of not lying. People who know me, know better than to ask me what I am thinking, for I will tell them. But I don?t share my thoughts unless invited to do so with anyone other than those nearest and dearest to me. And those nearest and dearest to me aren?t always too happy to hear what I have to say, and yet one and all have thanked me for my honesty later, for it helped them to grow. Something that doesn?t happen when we stay comfortable.

(six paragraphs this time single speed)

Posted by: Raven 31-Dec-2003, 10:33 AM

QUOTE (Roisin-Teagan @ Dec 30 2003, 02:04 PM)

I agree with this completely Roisin. It is only our perception and vanity that make the truth seem fuzzy or inconsistent. I.E. it is either not what we would like for it to be and is therefore offensive or we are trusting the wrong sources and it is therefore confusing.

I like Maisky have studied the philosophy,social sciences,physical sciences,(including quantum if you want to call that physical - I find it to be metaphysical and personally believe it should be grouped with philosophy) and some higher math (depending on what higher math means to you - mathematical indications for other dimensions etc - calculus, differential equations etc). I started these studies in college and after graduation had a lot of time to do continuing study which I found to be the most profitable for sorting out independent of the pressures for a grade ideas which seemed to lack merit based on a logical argument.

I'm not saying that I am any smarter than those who put forth certain "scientific arguments" but I am good at following their arguments to holes, for example when they make a quantum leap to an idea that is not proven and will present "their perception" as the reality.(oddly enough this does occur in the sciences and people are believed for who they are rather than what they say) This is something that seems to be common whether in science, philosophy, or religion (oddly enough the 3 subjects grouped together in this forum--scratches head) This problem is further amplified when people give theories or postulates the same weight as laws or if in perceived difficulties (generally arising from different perspectives or symatical issues) the evidence is percieved as giving conflicting answers.

However, like Single Speed says and Maisky alludes to. When it comes to the Truth, the worst problem we all have is being truthful with ourselves let alone in general.

I personally think that the worst sort of bondage that any person can put themselves into is that of not being as totally truthful with him/her self as they are capable. There truly is freedom available in honesty.

I want to thank you all for your posts in this thread as I truly have enjoyed seeing all of your thoughts and hopefully we are learning more about each other as a result.

Peace

Mikel

Posted by: Elspeth 31-Dec-2003, 10:58 AM

I think in some ways this can be simplified by using the Golden Rule - asking ourselves how we want to be treated. If we don't want to to be lied to then we shouldn't lie to others.

If being lied to doesn't bother you, that is another issue entirely. Then it becomes clouded and fuzzy. But there still is a responsibility to do what is best for the community.

Lying, more often than not, is a way to shirk responsibility - to other individuals, to the community and mostly to ourselves.

Posted by: maisky 31-Dec-2003, 11:49 AM

That's it!!! We are being too serious again! More Li'ker!!! Must make a New Year resolution for more Li'ker!

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 31-Dec-2003, 12:26 PM

QUOTE

This problem is further amplified when people give theories or postulates the same weight as laws or if in perceived difficulties (generally arising from different perspectives or symatical issues) the evidence is percieved as giving conflicting answers.

Raven,

I too have studied philosophy, religion, and science (now math is another story---I went far as I had to go---I hate math

) at a well known Jesuit university. I have learned from great thinkers and theorists, but it never shook what I truly believed in. I took all this "thought" into consideration, but it could not over shadow my experience or relationship with God. I found that God is Truth. Now, I'm not talking about "religion" but a relationship. It is from this relationship, I've have come close to seeing the face of God. I have felt his love and mercy since I was about eight years old. But some will say this is your truth according to your preceptions or dellusions---well, I'm not raving, only stating what I know to be true in my own life.

Let me give this example: There are "laws" set in this physical world---right? Laws of gravity, chemistry, physics that we as a human race have discovered to be certain truths. I am sure after the atom was finally seen under a micro-scope it blew some of the orignial theory out of the water in how it was made up. Another example, before man believed that the world was round---it was still round. Correct? Just because we can't see something or have actually scientific data to back up what we believe is true doesn't negate that truth from being.

What I'm trying to say is I have data to back-up what I believe in. Some might laugh in disgust or say the poor girl is loopy---but God's love for me is more real than the air I breath. For me, He is the foundation of the truth I try to live by. I believe there are two realms---the physical and the Spiritual. They are coexisting side by side and yet interwined...

I think my 15 minutes are up...time to give someone else a spin on the ol'soapbox.

Posted by: Elspeth 01-Jan-2004, 09:14 AM

QUOTE (Roisin-Teagan @ Dec 31 2003, 01:26 PM)

Some might laugh in disgust or say the poor girl is loopy---but God's love for me is more real than the air I breath. For me, He is the foundation of the truth I try to live by.

Roisin,

You, most definately, are NOT loopy.

Intangibles are more real than anything touchable. I think we can all know the truth. We just don't want to have to live by it.

Elspeth

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 01-Jan-2004, 12:12 PM

Thanks Elspeth.

Posted by: Raven 01-Jan-2004, 01:33 PM

I agree with all that you said Roisen and feel much the same way. I know why I believe what I believe and can present evidence to anyone who is willing to look at it. (I'm kind of a law and order kind of guy when it comes to science and theology -- you are absolutely right it is all about relationship and religeon is a separate and often relationship destroying issue)

Just because something is intangible doesn't mean it isn't real or true. I don't think anyone appreciates being lied to.

Also just so it is clear where I stand.......I think that the truth is more important than anything....I think that there is both absolute truth and relative truth(perhaps conditional truth would be a better word)

Sorry if I come off as a smart alec with this next one,,, but I just can't help myself

To anyone who truly believes that there are no absolutes or absolute truths.....Is that an absolute statement?

Peace to all and a happy new year.

Mikel

Posted by: Roisin-Teagan 02-Jan-2004, 07:44 AM

QUOTE

Sorry if I come off as a smart alec with this next one,,, but I just can't help myself
To anyone who truly believes that there are no absolutes or absolute truths.....Is that an absolute statement?
Peace to all and a happy new year.
Mikel

You are absolutly...funny!

That's a good one Mikel.

Roisin

Posted by: Kiwi Gael 05-Feb-2004, 01:15 AM

Does The Truth Matter...

http://www.vision.org/rfl/2002/rfl020319.html

Posted by: freekenny 17-Aug-2004, 10:53 PM

O'siyo,
Question: 'Does the truth matter'?...*note this is my opinion only*

Bottom line, the truth is just that..whether it be about your hair or a dress or pondering about life and perhaps an answer that you aren't ready to accept..still remains the same..if you wish to have/know the truth then accept it and go on..if there is such a thing as an absolute truth then no matter how one may dread it (truth), feel it may be painful, or perhaps it may be something they don't wish to hear, the truth does matter..if you don't want the truth from others, don't ask of it from them... find your own truth and leave others out of your realm of truth, honesty and deceit

In my opinion, truth can never be just half of an answer nor can it be half accepted

~~Sty-U

Posted by: Mayte2 18-Aug-2004, 10:47 AM

Aaaaaaah Truth. user posted image

I believe it is something we all seek in one form or another. Whether it be the truth of how we came about and continue to exist or whether it be the truth of how we look, feel, and act with others.

Personally I agree with Elspeth. I could have written exactly what she said. I have been lied to horribly in the past. I have had things hidden and I feel I need to know everything and be told the complete truth in everything because of it. (Even if I do look like a complete pile of cr*p!!!!)

Question ... Is the following a lie?

Scenario ...

He gets a text message on his phone.
I ask .. What does it say?
He says .. She (his ex) wants to know what time I'm picking the kids up tomorrow.
I say .. What time are you picking them up?
He says .. about 9ish.

Conversation ends. Later, I found out that she had also asked him (in the same text message) to take her to work. Note .. I find out .. he doesn`t tell me.

Did he lie when he didn't tell me the additional info? I say yes. As it happened he didn`t take her to work. He lied outright to her and told her he had to be elsewhere. (He didn't) Again, I found this out, he didn`t tell me. Kids eh? Don't you wish they'd keep their mouths shut!!!!

I know why he doesn't tell me stuff like that. Its because he doesn't want me to get angry - She (his ex) treats him like dirt because she's got the kids and threatens him with access every time he doesn't do what she wants. I get REAL angry user posted image

at the way she treats him sometimes. So, to keep everyone happy, he keeps things hidden. Problem is .. the truth always comes out. I get more angry at him lying (omitting things) than I do at him telling the truth (giving me the full facts)

I know in the great big scheme of things (life, the universe and everything) that its not a huge issue, but it is to me. And thats whats important, how I feel, and how I want to be treated.

And thats the truth (or is it??)

Mayte

Posted by: reddrake79 20-Aug-2004, 06:06 PM

"Truth" doesn't matter what we think about it. It is still going to be the truth about something (I apologize if someone has already covered this ground, I got excited reading some of the posts and jumped ahead) To some degree truth can be relative to the person speeking it. Make sure everybody involved has the same understanding of certaing things or what referance you are using for your statement.

One day as I walked through the door to my room in college, my roomate (who is known for making the truth bend like an olympic gymnast)

asked me "Was teaching secondary on your mind when you came here (college)?"

I said, "Yes"
He started typing furiously on his computer. I went over and read over his shoulder. He was saying that I came to college looking for a girl and that studies were seconday to everything else. Now even though I answered his question truthfully,as I saw it, He was writing a lie because of the answer I gave.

See, I was a History Education Major, science minor, Both of these emphasize Secondary School (High School) teaching. I understood the question to be "Was teaching high school on your mind when you came here. Even When I corrected him, and pulled out a dictionary

to prove that secondary means High School, he continued to write the original anyway because I gave him the answer He was looking for. ( he was only writting a letter home:)) The truth was that Teaching High School was why I went to college. However, Was his letter telling the truth too because I had a different understanding of the question than he ment?

A person can say, "The earth is flat." and be absolutly correct as long as he is talking about the 6 feet or so of ground in front of him. It depends on what you are using as a referance, but i do believe in asolute truths and laws and that the truth is not relative to the observer.

Police officer, "Do you know that you were speeding back there?:
idiot driver, "No officer."
Police officer, "How fast were you going?"
idiot driver, "45 mph"
Police officer, "What was the speed limit?"
idiot driver, "25"
police officer, "Don't you think thats speeding?"
idiot driver, "No officer, 50 would be speeding."
The truth was the guy (not me) was speeding and still got a ticket.

two phrases
"The truth will get you" "The truth will set you free"

Posted by: reddrake79 20-Aug-2004, 06:16 PM

Im going to pick on maisky a little, no harm intended

, just want to hear your answer to this. If there are no absolute truths, then your statement "...as for absolute truths, the world just doesn't work that way." would be an absolute truth and thus make your own statement false. I am curious as to how the world doesn't work with absolute truths. Wouldn't the laws of science be absolute truth? not talking about theories but the laws of thermodynamics, law of gravity, etc.

Posted by: Aaediwen 21-Aug-2004, 03:46 AM

There's always a chance all those laws could be complete hogwash and we could all be living a lie. I agree that it's not likely. And I agree that, in all probability, they are true. But it just takes one radical idea to change the world. One radical idea made the world round instead of flat. One radical idea placed the sun, not Earth, at the center of our solar system. It could happen. It has before.

Posted by: maisky 21-Aug-2004, 07:27 AM

QUOTE (reddrake79 @ 20-Aug-2004, 06:16 PM)

Im going to pick on maisky a little, no harm intended

I hate to say this, but you COULD be right!

There ARE some of the basics of how the universe functions that SEEM to be absolute, but that could simply be because of our limited understanding.