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> George Galloway Re: Lebanon & Israel, george rips biased sky news to shreds
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teashoci 
Posted: 11-Sep-2006, 01:17 PM
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interesting debate on israel by george galloway.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNiNS8TnJnI
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stevenpd 
Posted: 11-Sep-2006, 01:49 PM
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There was no debate. Just rantings.


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teashoci 
Posted: 11-Sep-2006, 02:48 PM
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in what part of that video constitutes ranting ......... what part of george galloways argument is wrong ?????????

i am against george galloway in regard to his politics and respect party but the fact is that his argument is spot on and it is most definitaly israelthat is the terrorist state.

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stevenpd 
Posted: 11-Sep-2006, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE (teashoci @ 11-Sep-2006, 12:48 PM)
in what part of that video constitutes ranting ......... what part of george galloways argument is wrong ?????????

i am against george galloway in regard to his politics and respect party but the fact is that his argument is spot on and it is most definitaly israelthat is the terrorist state.

Everything between the beginning and the end. He seemed more interested in demonizing Israel rather than discussing anything. The reporter tried to ask him questions and received the reply that she she knew nothing. That's not debating, that's lecturing or in his case, grandstanding.

The first error was his comment about how Israel occupied Lebanon for the last 24 years. In 1985 Israel pulled back from Lebanon, created a buffer zone, and occupied the buffer zone until May of 2000. Israel then pulled out of Lebanon in May 2000 (about 22 years after first going in) completely, that's over 6 years ago. They only recently went back in after an incursion from Hezbollah into the state of Israel occurred.

Israel went into Lebanon first in 1978 (28 years ago) in response to attacks from the Palestine Liberation Organization operating out of Lebanon. Lebanon was created as a independent state in 1944. So between 1944 and 1978, that would be about 34 years that Lebanon existed before Israel went in. What happened in that 34 years? Palestinians arrive, civil war breaks out, Syria invades to ostensibly to stop the civil war. Syria doesn't leave for 28 years. If anyone should be demonized it should be Syria, they have not respected the sovereignty of Lebanon. They are still heavily influencing Lebanese politics to this day through Hezbollah. They had made certain demands as a requirement for pulling out, guaranteeing their involvement in Lebanese politics.

Doesn't a sovereign nation have the right and the moral obligation to its people to defend itself? Why is it that every time Israel burps it is an affront to the world and should be eliminated? Why is it that every disaster is a Zionist conspiracy? Why is it that every problem, the world over, is a product of Jews?
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 11-Sep-2006, 07:52 PM
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Teashoci, for some reason when you posted the last few links (here and in the celtic christianity area) they didn't make real links. We shold try to fix that. I'd like to see what you're referring to. When I hand entered them there wasn't enough info to open them.
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stevenpd 
Posted: 11-Sep-2006, 08:11 PM
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Here is the link:

George Galloway
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teashoci 
Posted: 13-Sep-2006, 06:55 AM
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I dont belive you can describe the recent atrocities israel as committed against lebanese civilians as self defence.

what makes these arrogant , arrogant israelis think that the life of one of their soldiers is worth destroying 3000 lebanese civilian lives.

israel have never given a thought to un resolution (ironic since britian created israel)
and AMERICA SUPPLY THEM WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO DO WHAT THE HELL THEY WANT WITH.

americas previous occupations of lebanon have been ilegal not to mention unsuccesful with regards to suppressing palestinian fighters.

and i think george galloway is right when he says hezbollah is given israel a good kicking .......... theyre asking for it.
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teashoci 
Posted: 13-Sep-2006, 06:56 AM
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********* i meant israels occupation of lebanon in one of my sentances their not america , typo*********
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 13-Sep-2006, 09:50 AM
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"Britain created Israel". Wow, good buddy! That in itself is an irony. If bugging out of a dismally failing colonial enterprise and leaving the soon to be Israelis utterly defenseless against something like 20 to one odds, knowing that if they didn't swim alone they'd go under, then yes, they did create Israel. Quite a dicey but ultimately dramatic way to go about it, no?

None of that excuses any present arrogant behaviour, I'm not saying that. It's more than troubling -- it's eating at the ideological roots for the very founding of the state, and I do believe it could bring it down. I for one would not rejoice at that.

Steve -- I think the world gasps every time Israel "burps" because we've always had unrealistically moralistic expectations about the Holy Land and its Chosen Tenants. (I do mean thatsomewhat ironically.) But I think teashoci is right in that this was way too overkill for the overt stated reasons. Of course, there are always the 16 tons of unstated reasons. The space we have to read between the lines with operations in the Middle East is always vast.
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John Clements 
Posted: 13-Sep-2006, 10:22 AM
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It doesnít surprise me that the Israeliís think that they are superior to every one else. After all, they think they are the chosen, and they take their lead from us, who learned how to be imperialists, from the once best at it. Remember when the sun never set on the British Empire. Why, they even declared victory, even though the fat lady hasnít sung yet. I take this particular problem personally, because my wife is a Jew, but fortunately she doesnít practice Judaism anymore. Which leads me to have say, no gods, less conflict, and so I think Galloway is dead on.


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stoirmeil 
Posted: 13-Sep-2006, 10:41 AM
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John, in some ways I agree with you. But I think it's best to keep the practice of Judasim distinct in the mind from the State of Israel. There's nothing either fortunate or unfortunate about being a practicing Jew. I know better than most why political, ideological and religious identity of a nation with an official religion can get very blurred -- and Israel is also identified, to its practical disadvantage, by being "not muslim" in the region. But look -- Judaism (which is so far from monolithic in its nature I don't know where to start telling you why) is not Zionism, and is also not liberal secular Jewishness. There are many, many Jews in many parts of the world that are far more horrified than you will ever be when Israel breaches good policy and good sense in these events, largely due to the erroneous, indiscriminate lumping together of all these factors based on the way it looks to non-Jews from the outside.
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stevenpd 
Posted: 13-Sep-2006, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE (teashoci @ 13-Sep-2006, 04:55 AM)
I dont belive you can describe the recent atrocities israel as committed against lebanese civilians as self defence.

what makes these arrogant , arrogant israelis think that the life of one of their soldiers is worth destroying 3000 lebanese civilian lives.

israel have never given a thought to un resolution (ironic since britian created israel)
and AMERICA SUPPLY THEM WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION TO DO WHAT THE HELL THEY WANT WITH.

americas previous occupations of lebanon have been ilegal not to mention unsuccesful with regards to suppressing palestinian fighters.

and i think george galloway is right when he says hezbollah is given israel a good kicking .......... theyre asking for it.

The recent "atrocities" were not of Isreal's making. They had left Lebanon thinking that they would be left alone. But Hezbollah had other ideas. Not to be outdone by Hamas, Hezbollah invaded Israel on July 12, capturing two Israeli soldiers. It wasn't until July 15 that Israel went into Lebanon with force.

QUOTE
At around 9:00 AM local time (06:00 UTC), on 12 July 2006, Hezbollah initiated a diversionary Katyusha rocket and mortar attack on Israeli military positions and border villages. At the same time, a ground contingent of Hezbollah crossed the border into Israeli territory and attacked two Israeli armoured Humvees patrolling on the Israeli side of the Israel-Lebanon border, near the village of Zar'it, capturing two Israeli soldiers and killing three. Five others were killed later on the Lebanese side of the border during a mission to rescue the two kidnapped soldiers.
Wkipedia Article

The decision to start this conflict was NOT Israel's, but Hezbollah's. All Hezbollah had to do was not to do what they did. But instead they WANTED to fight, they picked a fight. Also note that Hezbollah fired Katyusha rockets INDISCRIMENTLY into Israel. These rockets have no guidance system. If they land on military or civilian targets in makes no difference and they continued throughout the conflict. they had fired a total of approximately 3, 970 rockets troughout the conflict

Atrocities? Do you call what Hezbollah did innocent? What would you do if you were attacked?

During the conflict did Isreal:

* Fire rockets into civilian population centers?
* Hide weapons in civilian centers?
* Fire from from civilian centers?

Hezbollah created this conflict. As much as the deaths of civilians is unfortunate, so is war. Especially since it was so unnecessary. Unfortunately, urban combat is the new face of war. Long gone are the days when combatants were easily identified. And when it is impossible to identify who your enemy is, civilians will be hurt in the process. Israel did everything but tell Hezbollah what they were specifically doing. This whole conflict can be laid at the feet of Hezbollah, Syria, Iran, and Islamic fascists.

Further, the Hezbollah Open Letter creating the organization occurred on February 16, 1985 and states:

QUOTE
* The Necessity for the Destruction of Israel

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile. Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated. We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.


Hezbollah Manifesto

The entire point to the existance of Hezbollah is the destruction of Israel and by extension, the United States. This is not peacful, harmonious co-existance. So no matter what Israel does they are still attacked. And this is what you support? This is good? Destruction of a soverign nation just because it exists is right?
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MDF3530 
  Posted: 13-Sep-2006, 05:21 PM
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Thank God for people like George Galloway. Remember, SKY News is Fox News' British counterpart.


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stevenpd 
Posted: 13-Sep-2006, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE (MDF3530 @ 13-Sep-2006, 03:21 PM)
Thank God for people like George Galloway. Remember, SKY News is Fox News' British counterpart.

What value does Mr. Galloway provide?
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MDF3530 
  Posted: 17-Sep-2006, 05:52 PM
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QUOTE (stevenpd @ 13-Sep-2006, 09:00 PM)
What value does Mr. Galloway provide?

You know how on the False News Channel, they often line up some milquetoast liberal to be a punching bag for O'Reilly or Hannity (when he gets tired of just doing it to Alan Colmes)? I give my kudos to George Galloway for having a spine and defending himself.
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