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Patch 
Posted: 11-May-2009, 09:18 PM
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An Ohio teenager has been suspended by his Christian school because he attended another school's prom. Officials at Heritage Christian School had warned 17-year old Tyler Frost that he would be suspended and prohibited from attending graduation if he went to the public school dance over the weekend.

Frost says he didn't think going to the dance was wrong even though his fundamentalist Baptist school forbids dancing and etc.

There has been a lot of coverage on talk radio today but the fact is he attended a private school and they have rules. I do believe they can not prevent him from graduating if he completed the requirements. Just from attending the ceremony.

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flora 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 06:39 AM
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I just heard a small lead on the news last night and I didn't get to watch the details on this. So apparently he sought advice before going and still made the decision to go knowing the consequences. I admire him for that. And he still will have a high school diploma whether he walks or not.

I have a hard time understanding people that support the thought of separating themselves because of their strict beliefs. I respect their beliefs but how can they share their beliefs by living in a sheltered life?

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Patch 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 07:32 AM
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Catholics and Lutherans are the most common of the "religious" schools. Many of the problems in public schools today do not exist in the religious schools not because of religion, but because of discipline.

I remember back in the 40's when w Catholic's had to get permission from the priest to attnd a non Catholic church for a funeral, wedding or other event. That has been gone for many years.

I can not speak for others, but Catholic schools accept non Catholics. They do not have to attend the Catholic "catechism" but the parents must sign an agreement to allow the school to discipline their children should it become necessary.

As long as you know the rules going in, there can and should be consequences. Life is the same and many times the rules are not spelled out to all.

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 Patch    
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Camac
Posted: 12-May-2009, 07:33 AM
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flora;

I think the whole thing is ridiculous and just another point showing how religion attempts to control peoples lives. Didn't J.C. attend a wedding had some wine and you know there was dancing going on. Bloody stupid archaic rules.


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Patch 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 07:43 AM
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I agree, Many churches have rules I do not believe are important. However they choose that religion for a reason and and if they do not like it, leave. I suspect that the young man involved has decided to leave this church.

It is said, that Catholics do not recognize the Church of England as the true church, protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of all christians and Baptists do not recognize each other at Hooters. Also they do not recognize the Catholics or other protestants there either.

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flora 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 08:47 AM
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Patch, I was raised Baptist but I have never been to a Hooter's. lol.gif But growing up I always heard that if you shake the bush hard enough a Baptist will fall out. Sad enough no matter what religion, you will always hear about the wrong doing and never enough about the good.

My grandson now goes to a Catholic preschool and I am very impressed by their program.

Camac, that is why I think it is so important to extend yourself to your community. Let them see how you live, not what you think your religion dictates. Jesus started out with apologetics with the church elders first. Knowing what he believed in and why then went into the community.

People are unique and we can always learn from each other.

Flora
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TheCarolinaScotsman 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 08:58 AM
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1. I agree that a private school has the right to expect a student to follow their rules. In this case, the student violated the rules with full knowledge of the end result. He should have no complaints.

2. I vehemently disagree with the notion that dancing is a sin. Many extreme fundamentalists seem to think that anything that is fun is sinful.

3. In my part of the country, "most" church schools are run by fundamentalists. There was a rush in the sixties to build private schools so children wouldn't have to attend school with "bad influences" (read people of color). They then discovered that the best way to spread their extreme doctrines (creationism, intolerence for minority groups and other religions are just a few) was to have access to children, so they stopped emphasizing segregation and tried to seem ecuminical in their recruiting.


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Patch 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 10:45 AM
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I didn't mean to imply that Baptists' supported Hooters, only that some in every denomination are hypocrites.

In Catholic schools, Religion classes are only for Catholic students. Others can take the class but it is not required.

They will take some discipline "cases" from the private schools as long as the parents agree to the "rules."

I had an employee who had three sons who could do no wrong. Only one survives today. However, the youngest in his junior year of public school broke the female art teachers wrist after she observed him making improper contact with a female student. He was expelled and his father told me the Catholic school wanted him for his wrestling abilities. I suspected not and told him that discipline would be swift if he got out of line. In short, he promptly got in trouble and two hefty priests, the guidance counselor and his assistant administered corporal punishment until he stopped cursing. The kid refused to go back and got a GED.

He wrecked a motorcycle while in the military, was discharged because of the steel plates, came home and found the keys to his fathers bike, a "crotch rocket", and died when he dumped it at a speed estimated in excess of 125 MPH

Some kids never learn.

In todays paper, a neighboring state passed and put in effect legislation that provided representation by the state AG's office to all teachers for petty suits re: discipline. In signing of the bill the governor said it was time the schools took control back from the students and misguided parents. It does have the potential for abuse by the state though. If it works, it could be a model for other school systems.

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SCShamrock 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (TheCarolinaScotsman @ 12-May-2009, 08:58 AM)
1. I agree that a private school has the right to expect a student to follow their rules. In this case, the student violated the rules with full knowledge of the end result. He should have no complaints.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying you think the school has the right to set rules that determine what a student does during their offtime...meaning things that are, of course, perfectly legal? I can't imagine. Being a student does not turn a person into the school's property, and I think that holds especially true for students when they are on their own time. What should happen is the ACLU should contact this boy and agree to take his case for free. It should be publicized from start to finish, with the appropriate apology from school officials plus whatever else can be sucked out of them. Any predictions on whether the ACLU will even be mentioned in this case, considering this centers on a religious institution and one of their own? Hmmmm.


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TheCarolinaScotsman 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (SCShamrock @ 12-May-2009, 07:07 PM)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying you think the school has the right to set rules that determine what a student does during their offtime...meaning things that are, of course, perfectly legal? I can't imagine.

Many institutions have rules of conduct that pertain to the individual who is on his "own time". If you are speaking of schools specifically, just check the rules for West Point, Annapolis or the Air Force Academy. Many private schools enforce a code of conduct for their students on and off campus. The key is that it is a private school and the individual by attending has agreed to follow all the rules. A public school does not have the same kind of authority, but because attendance at a private school is strictly a personal choice and not a requirement, they have carte blanch in promulgating rules compatable with their "core beliefs".
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Patch 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 07:18 PM
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Actually, in this case yes for the following reasons.

I know in the case of Catholic schools, the rules are spelled out and an agreement signed prior to the student being accepted. We Catholics are, or can be, a rather rowdy bunch when we celebrate so some of the things the Baptist school prohibited (dancing, hand holding and kissing) would be acceptable with us. The article stated it was a violation of church beliefs and the rules of the church school agreed to by all parties.

If the student had not been given a diploma, I would have taken exception but he did"graduate." I suspect the state would have stepped in if they tried to with hold his diploma and the school could have lost its state "certificate." He just was not allowed to participate in the actual ceremony. The expulsion had little bearing as classes were already completed. The expulsion might prevent him from entering a church affiliated university but should have little if any bearing if he attends a public school of higher education.

The key to all of this is the "contract" signed between the school and the parents. The young man was 17 so being a minor, he would have no legal standing. He, with his parents blessing broke the contract so "they" defaulted. Thus they would have no grounds for a suit. Had a public school done this I suspect the ACLU would have considered the matter. Also, the school and the rules were the choice of the family and they paid out of pocket for their child to attend. They were not forced to put their child in this school.

You might remember a while back when a young man wanted to wear a formal gown to a public school function and was prohibited. The ACLU took it under consideration and refused stating that the school could legally set reasonable dress codes.

With obama talking about closing the non-performing public schools and reopening them, rehiring only the best of the teachers, I suspect the ACLU will have all the business it can handle. This was done multiple times in Ill. and they claim it worked.

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Patch 
Posted: 12-May-2009, 09:23 PM
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QUOTE (TheCarolinaScotsman @ 12-May-2009, 08:04 PM)
Many institutions have rules of conduct that pertain to the individual who is on his "own time". If you are speaking of schools specifically, just check the rules for West Point, Annapolis or the Air Force Academy. Many private schools enforce a code of conduct for their students on and off campus. The key is that it is a private school and the individual by attending has agreed to follow all the rules. A public school does not have the same kind of authority, but because attendance at a private school is strictly a personal choice and not a requirement, they have carte blanch in promulgating rules compatable with their "core beliefs".

That is pretty much how the religious schools operate.

Slàinte,    

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