Realm: second star to the right, straight until morning
For those interested in finding out more about the languages in which Catriona speaks so proudlyt of, I started looking into them. ( Just skimming the surface) I will post more as time allows.
Just wanted say Thanks Catriona for peaking my interest....
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"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." Oscar Wilde
Some men are drawn to oceans, they cannot breathe unless the air is scented with a salty mist. Others are drawn to land that is flat, and the air is sullen and is leaden as August. My people were drawn to mountains- Earl Hamner Jr.
As you have discovered, there are a number of Scots 'languages' - although the argument is still ongoing about whether Auld Scots, the Doric, Lallans and Braid Scots ARE languages or just dialects. You know which side of the argument I favour.
The first two sites are very good (I know both of them well As I told you, I am involved in a number of sites which promote Lallans!
Are there any websites dedicated to learning the Scottish language. I know there are for Irish, so I'm hoping there's one for Scottish.
I have a friend who speaks Welsh, but I want to move to Scotland or Ireland, mainly Scotland (I'm shallow, I like the kilts), and I would love to learn the language before I go.
Also, forgive my ignorace, but the Gaelic reminds me a lot of Danish (which I am and don't speak). Is it because there Northern languages?
Are there any websites dedicated to learning the Scottish language. I know there are for Irish, so I'm hoping there's one for Scottish.
I have a friend who speaks Welsh, but I want to move to Scotland or Ireland, mainly Scotland (I'm shallow, I like the kilts), and I would love to learn the language before I go.
Also, forgive my ignorace, but the Gaelic reminds me a lot of Danish (which I am and don't speak). Is it because there Northern languages?
Thanks!
Briana
Hello Briana Welcome!
If you are asking about the Scots language, then the sites above are a good starting place. However, if you are talking about Scots Gaelic - and I rather think you must be as you mention Welsh and Irish Gaelic - then I'm afraid I can't help. I do not speak the Gaelic. My interests lie in preserving Auld Scots/Lallans/Doric/Braid - and I'm afraid that these really have to be acquired by listening to speakers, rather than working through a grammar text....
I am new here, but I have enjoyed looking at the websites listed. Gaelic is clearly a very different language from English, but I am not so sure about Scots. I read over some of the text in Scots and I was able to follow a fair amount of it. The grammar structure is, as far as I can tell, the same as English. Some words are different, to be sure, and the spelling and pronunciation would always be different.
But in the US, different regions of the country had very different accents and different words for the same things, and at one time different spelling conventions. Television has a way of homogenizing everything, so the differences are not so sharp as they once were, but they are still there. (In 1984, a native of Charleston, South Carolina sought the Democratic nomination for President. In the all critical New Hampshire primary election, he received almost no votes. Later, it was realized that people in New Hampshire had great difficulty understanding his thick Charleston accent.)
To those more learned on this subject than I, may I pose a question: What is the case to be made for Scots to be a language rather than a dialect? Thanks.
I am new here, but I have enjoyed looking at the websites listed. Gaelic is clearly a very different language from English, but I am not so sure about Scots. I read over some of the text in Scots and I was able to follow a fair amount of it. The grammar structure is, as far as I can tell, the same as English. Some words are different, to be sure, and the spelling and pronunciation would always be different.
But in the US, different regions of the country had very different accents and different words for the same things, and at one time different spelling conventions. Television has a way of homogenizing everything, so the differences are not so sharp as they once were, but they are still there. (In 1984, a native of Charleston, South Carolina sought the Democratic nomination for President. In the all critical New Hampshire primary election, he received almost no votes. Later, it was realized that people in New Hampshire had great difficulty understanding his thick Charleston accent.)
To those more learned on this subject than I, may I pose a question: What is the case to be made for Scots to be a language rather than a dialect? Thanks.
It is a complex question.... and I have been involved in the promotion of Lallans/Braid/Auld Scots/Doric for many years. This URL has put the argument quite well. This is an extremely well-regarded site by Scottish natives - I have been involved with a number of the sites which promote Lallans... http://www.lallans.co.uk/furthsettins/info.html
You are wrong about the grammar being the same by the way - ask any of the natives on here - although we are very much in the minority!
'Wir ain leid'..... 'our own speech/language' - Tell me what's 'English' about that?!
Thanks for the link. It was very interesting. The author's point seems to be that Englich and Scots derive from the same language, hence the similiarities between the two. It brings to mind Spanish and Portugese, which are related but different. I still think that the grammer is similar. Scots spelling is intimidating, but then if one reads Cranmer's 1549 Book of Common Prayer, the English spelling from that time is pretty bizarre to the modern eye.
This article was very illuminating on one point close to home. In the 19th Century American Southland, working class Southerners were usually of Scots or Scots Irish ancestry and they referred to themselves as "Southrons." I have always been puzzled by that name until reading in this article that some Scots once refered to English as "Southron." I suppose that as these American Scots lived in the South, that is how they thought of themselves.
I am glad you enjoyed the link. Wir Ain Leid is one of the better Lallans sites....
The spelling of Lallans (when I say Lallans, I mean Doric/AS/Braid as well - but too longwinded to spell it out each time!) is at best, fluid.... However, you need to know how it is pronounced by a native to know where to 'accent' the word. For instance in some cases, the same 'English' word would be pronounced quite differently in each country! Ask Barddas - he visited Scotland earlier this year - and had to 'tune' in to the cadence of our speech. And, as a East Coast, Central-Belter (as we are known) from Edinburgh, I would find Aberdonians speaking together quite intimidating.... I might only get one word in every 3 or so - but write it down, and I'd have no problems. The Weegies for example, have their own version of Lallans - quite different to Edinburgh. AD is a German, living with her partner in Fife... her English is really good - but she had a bit of difficulty tuning into the conversation when Fifers were talking together!
Your analogy re Spanish and Portugese is a good one....
Catriona! This has been a very interesting thread to me. I did not see it before. Not sure how I missed it! I am involved in two Scottish sites where there are both Scots and people from all over the world and the emphasis is always on learning to speak Gaelic. I had the impression that Gaelic was the language of the Highlands, not the lowlands. No one I have ever spoken to has ever mentioned Lallans to me. I looked over all the links that barddas so graciously provided and does the Lallans look like the first link he posted? It looks like a mixture of English and a Scottish dialect to me and I was just wondering if that is what the Lallans language looked like. In Gaelic, Ciamar a sibh, is how are you. How would how are you be written in Lallans? I hope I am not being too stupid here. You must really roll your eyes when you see my posts!
quite right Catriona, just imagine that poor wee German coming to Fife for the first time ! I'm actually starting to speak it myself. I have to say I don't have much problems understanding other accents by now, northerners sometimes give me a bit of problems, but I listen to different radio stations to get into all these accents..
I think Scots (might it be Doric, Fife, Lallans, Weegie or whatever) is quite nice to listen to. although it's hard to understand at first, when you're not used to it. My BF's stepdad comes from the Trossachs, he speaks nice
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I forgot to add something Rose, casually here in Fife you would usually say "Hows you?" You can compare Scots to a dialect of English, although I myself have another theory about it.
In Scots, I know is "I ken" which reminds me alot of the German "Ich kenne" and there is other examples of it. English & German have the same roots, the only difference being that English developed of the northern form (same with Dutch, for example) while modern German developed from the southern form (as well as Austrian and Switzerdütch (swiss-german). I personally have the theory that English and Scots again have the same roots, but developed differently. I would have to talk to a linguist but that is my personal idea of it.