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> At Death.., What could happen?
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 11-Nov-2008, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (InRi @ 11-Nov-2008, 02:11 PM)
Once more, I don't want offend sensibilities. I respect all people who believe in (a) god, who believe in a life after death but I can't believe in these.
Incase I hurt anyone, I apologize profusely for that.

Ingo

Your thoughts are fairly close to my own about these matters. And you haven't hurt anyone's feelings -- this is a place where anyone's opinion is heard with respect if it is given with respect.

These thoughts of yours are very close to what I think about often, as a psychologist -- I don't know either whether our ability to change our environment is a boon or bane. You have stated your observation with a lot of insight:

"We as the human race are for the time the highest position, because we are able to think about us . And we are able to change our environment (as the only creature on this globe). (off topic: I don't know if that is a boone or a bane)

It is logical that the human think about god, dead, a life after and many other things too, which for them actually unexplainable. Our brain is too efficient for survive only and too inefficient to understand all."

That's the human problem right there, Ingo -- as we say, in a nutshell.
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SCShamrock 
Posted: 17-Nov-2008, 08:04 PM
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Watching my young son die solidified everything I ever thought about death. I spent his last day by his side. As he lied in bed--heart failing, breathing labored, becoming more incoherent--I tried to continue speaking with him. He, however, had a muttering conversation with someone, but that someone wasn't me. A few moments before he died, he said with his eye's closed "no, no, no." Then a few second later (it seemed an eternity to me) he simply said "ok." A few more breaths, and he was gone. Unbelievers that I know have argued that he was simply resisting what he knew was his moment, and then surrendered as he knew it was the only choice. How can I argue with that? Well I don't. If a person wants to dismiss all they see, hear, and feel as any evidence of the divine, then that's on them. As for me, I know God sent his angels to Aaron to guide him home.

Before this experience, I was never really afraid of death. Watching my son pass...I have no fear at all. Could that be because as a dad I would have gladly taken his place, or that I subconsciously want to share his pain and suffering? I don't know. In fact I can't explain my total lack of fear at all.


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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
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gaberlunzie 
Posted: 18-Nov-2008, 12:42 PM
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What can one say after reading your post, SC Shamrock...it still moves me to tears.

One can always argue; science will always have a different point of view, will always do their best to find a proof for something that is simply beyond human ability to PROVE and comprehend...

You are a witness, in a heartbroking situation. You experienced what death is. Death itself is nothing to be afraid of. As much as it hurts to have to let go a beloved ones it always it's the end of the earthbound path and at the same time the beginning of a new journey, it's a passage fom the Seen into the Unseen World - however you might call it, in the end it's all the same.



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"Now here's my secret", said the fox, "it is very simple. It is only with ones heart that one can see clearly. What is essential is invisible to the eye."

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Antwn 
Posted: 19-Nov-2008, 05:35 PM
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QUOTE (SCShamrock @ 17-Nov-2008, 08:04 PM)
In fact I can't explain my total lack of fear at all.

Nor should you ever need to Shamrock. More power to you pal!


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Donny 
Posted: 30-Nov-2008, 12:54 AM
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Greetings to all.
What a great list of posts. Seems to me this is what sharing is about - letting others provide their thoughts and feelings in a way that does not intimate them or others. When talking about religion this is often difficult to do.
Looks like there were two viewpoints shared. First the materialistic view that states that everything is built from the bottom up so there is nothing beyond this life. The second, that there was a pre-existence that carried through into the present and extends into the future, life and death fit here.
There is an evolving third position in science that discusses the co-evolving universe and consciousness. This model allows for non-material (top down) understanding and activity within the universe. Into this model both others can fit, but not without argument from hardliners on both sides.
However, I take a different position. Seems to me that since the Big-Bang acknowledges a pre-existent something-nothingness out of which the Big Bang developed--and which accelerated at a rate much faster than the material universe including the parts we can not see because they exist outside the limits imposed by light speed-- then there is an aspect of materialism that can not be explained. This unexplained aspect is consciousness. Consciousness is known by many names in many religions but they all somehow describe a God. The part that is missing is generally the inter-relationship of God and humans. (Incidentally, Karl Jung talked about God creating man and man creating god so both could develop.)
If there is an underlying strata of something variously called Holy spirit, akashic field, zero point field, book of life, etc., that has a relationship with all life, per quantum physics recent findings, then this is where I find the answers to life, death, continuation. (for more info on this see http://world-faith.blogspot.com.) There is continuation beyond death. My question is the how not the if. Isn't this where religions differ?
Again thanks for sharing and letting me share.
God bless you all in your journeys
donny smile.gif


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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 03-Dec-2008, 11:11 AM
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QUOTE (SCShamrock @ 17-Nov-2008, 09:04 PM)
Watching my young son die solidified everything I ever thought about death. I spent his last day by his side. As he lied in bed--heart failing, breathing labored, becoming more incoherent--I tried to continue speaking with him. He, however, had a muttering conversation with someone, but that someone wasn't me. A few moments before he died, he said with his eye's closed "no, no, no." Then a few second later (it seemed an eternity to me) he simply said "ok." A few more breaths, and he was gone... As for me, I know God sent his angels to Aaron to guide him home.


WOW - that is one powerful, heartwrenching story. As we say here in the South, "bless your heart, honey"...

What a tragedy, but look at what you witnessed... I really do believe you witnessed angels coming to take your son to heaven (what Jesus called 'paradise', when he was talking to that guy on the other cross when they both were near their end).
My husband witnessed the passing of his father, who also spoke to an unseen presence in the room before he died peacefully. This gentleman's sister, our beloved Aunt Tina, actually spoke to an angel and her own mother who were in the corner of her hospital room during the moments preceding her own passing. Tina wasn't afraid, because her mother was waiting for her! Wow.

Thanks for sharing.


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"All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king..."
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Camac
Posted: 03-Dec-2008, 11:36 AM
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I envy those who have experienced the peaceful death of a Loved one. I on the other hand cursed the powers that be and the Doctors for allowing my Mother to die the lingering horrible death that she experienced. We would not let an animal suffer like she did. Six years after her when my Step-Dad pass away I was also present and I will say this he died the way he lived, on his terms. At 1:00 am on the Sunday he died he woke up asked "Is this the Dying room when told yes he said OK I'm ready Let the B-----d come and get me." Closed his eyes and was gone. He lived his life that way no quarter asked or given.

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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 17-Dec-2008, 12:26 PM
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Oh Camac, I'm sorry for your losses... truly.
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Camac
Posted: 17-Dec-2008, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE (Siobhan Blues @ 17-Dec-2008, 12:26 PM)
Oh Camac, I'm sorry for your losses... truly.

Siobhan Blues;

I tHank you.

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