Everything seems either busywork or diversion.
What is the point of it all?
Are we just marking time until we die?
So, in what do you find meaning and why, how etc....
Signed, the gloomy side of me.
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| Celtic Radio Community > Philosophy & Science > What's The Purpose Of Life? |
| Posted by: Elspeth 08-Feb-2006, 07:44 AM |
| OK, just chalk this up to a mid-life crisis that has lasted way too long, but I just can't see any purpose in life. Everything seems either busywork or diversion. What is the point of it all? Are we just marking time until we die? So, in what do you find meaning and why, how etc.... Signed, the gloomy side of me. |
| Posted by: haynes9 08-Feb-2006, 11:08 AM |
| A really good honest question! And in our society of running form one place to another and seemingly accomplishing so very little, I can totally understand and relate. As a teenager, I committed Romans 12:1-2 to memory. It has been a help and encouragement. I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. I realize that my purpose in life is to spend it trying to be more like Jesus. It is not easy, because I'm a pretty difficult old stink to deal with  . I also know that no matter what the situation, nothing ever takes the Lord by surprise. So, even when life is out of control or I'm seemingly out of control. He is always in control. I have to remind myself that nothing that happens to me catches Him by surprise. And believe me, I have to remind myself of that very thing constantly.You sound very normal to me! I hit the big 5-0 this year and I would be lying to say I never kinda take a look at what I have done and am dong to try and make sense of it all. And when it doesn't make sense or seems so useless, I remember that God will eventually help me to make sense of it all. Maybe not in my time frame, but in His. Hope you have a great day and I hope this may have given a little bit of help for the day. |
| Posted by: Nightchild 08-Feb-2006, 01:01 PM |
| The purpose of life. I've been looking for it for years. I'm not sure whether I found it yet. Maybe there's more to it that I think by now. What I do think is that life is meant for us to learn. We learn so many things and although there are things we see and hear that we can't understand they might prove useful some day. You will remember when you finally can understand. Maybe that's not even in this life, maybe during the next one or some other later on. Learning about the rhythms of life and nature seems to be the meaning of life. At least at the moment. Maybe I'll learn that it's not.  |
| Posted by: Aaediwen 08-Feb-2006, 05:48 PM |
The immortal question pondered yet again  /me thinks about it a bit we're all put here for a reason, and each with a different calling and a different reason for being. Life then, could be seen as a quest. A quest the reason for which we only find through the process of the quest itself. In the process of this quest, we grow spiritually, and we influence others whom we meet on the trail. Hopefully our interactions then enlighten everyone involved. The purpose then would be to fulfill our reason for being and enlighten both ourselves and those we encounter along the way. |
| Posted by: Cordelia 08-Feb-2006, 06:26 PM |
| The meaning of life is to have meaning in your life. Isn't it? Which probably means that one has to try to be good as much as he/she can, and life will unfold the way it's meant to be. |
| Posted by: Antwn 08-Feb-2006, 07:29 PM |
| Better to ask oneself perhaps what you value, what you want and what you wish your life to be about in the highest sense, in lieu of finding some preexisting cosmic purpose. One's answer to the purpose of life is going to be whatever one accepts anyway. Many "mystilliofixations" assuage the insecurity around making a sovereign choice in one's own right and provide the pretense of authoritative permission, since we're often conditioned to believe our own determinations of validity are inconsequential or even arrogant without outside or otherworldly authentication. So we imagine that we have it, therefore we do. In an ultimate sense, maybe life has no purpose save that which we invent. If that's true, what meaning you find is as good as any. I tend to find meaning empirically. Insipration happens within you regardless of its cause, so perhaps the search begins there. What draws forth within you the deepest inspiration? There is a great feeling of beauty in life which finds its most profound expression in Nature. Its indescribable - no attempt does it justice. Nature includes humanity and we are not truly alienated from that same beauty, though we've created an artificial kingdom which abounds in alienation. Think of Nature not just on this planet, but expand your vision to include the universe. Stars, galaxies, the massive unfathomable universe which includes this planet are just as much Nature as what you experience when you go into the mountains, park or secluded beach. The inspiration one feels to experience some sort of alignment with the majesty of Nature is to me....well, natural. I think the driving force is one's intent. If you can find in your heart what you value most and what you want your experience to be, then hold that intent and act from your inspiration, you'll find your own way and your own meaning - and because it would be something which springs from you, you will cherish it all the more. Its original and genuine, you will not have picked it like an entree from any philosophical or religious menu. Those all have requirements and conditions. There is a power which has none, needs none but only invites you to partake in its overwhelming inclusiveness and beauty. Though my experience has not been constant, that's where I find meaning. Thank you for your wonderful question Elspeth. Its far from being a gloomy consideration in my opinion. Its probably the most historically pervasive human question of all. Maybe its only considered gloomy out of humanity's happy-faced infatuation with denial. Its as if the expectation is for everyone to assume a smiley perky artificial jubilance like a game show host, and anyone searching for deeper meaning becomes some misanthropic grinch. Yet isn't the first step to discovery to question? |
| Posted by: Dogshirt 08-Feb-2006, 07:54 PM |
| First i would answer your question wit a question. MUST life have a meaning? If so it has eluded many much more qualified to answer that than I. Can not life just be lived and enjoyed without any deep hidden meaning? I do not know. I DO know that I find great pleasure in the things I create such as the houses I build and the art and craft items that I do. I also achieve much satisfaction in watching a team of dogs that I have raised and trained since puppyhood. Do I have an answer for you? I don't know, but I enjoy life VERY much without trying to find a meaning. It works for me. By the way, my signature "Hoka Hey" means "It's a good day to die!" I perceive this to mean live life to the fullest and don't fear to face death when it comes, as it must for ALL things.  |
| Posted by: Elspeth 09-Feb-2006, 07:52 AM | ||
 Amen brother And in response to your question, dogshirt, I can only answer for myself, yes, I must have meaning. It doens't have to be of cosmic proportion, but it's got to mean something. That's me. For years it was raising my babies. That was my purpose. Now, they're not babies anymore and that leaves a chunk of me in a void. I don't belive God has some book that he writes out a plan for everyone's life, I think He give us a lot more credit than that. I do believe we are all created with gifts, skills and talents that lend themselves to some kind of work. And to find and follow where those talents lead us is our purpose. And to do it in harmony with our fellowman. Harmony may not be the best word, because I don't mean that we all float along in 'tolerance' with vacant smiles upon our faces. We struggle, we strive, we listen to each other, support each other, chastise each other. Love each other. Love as we want to be loved. So, I guess I know what the purpose is, I just can't seem to find it anymore. I wonder if I should post a listing in Lost and Found. |
| Posted by: haynes9 09-Feb-2006, 08:15 AM | ||
A great preacher of years gone by preached a message on duty. I remember that it almost left me depressed because I didn't want to think of life as some rote series of actions that left me empty inside. But he made the point (and I found that he was right) that often times if we continue to do the things that used to bring us joy out of duty, eventually the joy often can and does return. For me, that was the case. This may sound like a contradiction in terms, but though I am not always happy, I have an abiding joy that Christ has given me. We have seven kids and four are still at home, but I am beginning to understand the "empty nest" sort of thing. My youngest son leaves for college this fall and that we leave my lovely wife and three youngest daughters here. (I dread the thought of being the only male, finding things unknown to me hanging around the house and the potential battles for bathroom time  )Continue to work through it. You can and will make it. One of my favorite phrases in the Bible is "and it came to pass." Truly, these hard times all do pass eventually. Have a day filled with joy and discovery! |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 09-Feb-2006, 11:51 AM | ||
Ah. Now this is something that can be worked with. First of all, I find myself once again lined up philosophically with Antwn. Not the first time. . . My existential tag line is more like "The only meaning is the meaning you make." I think if anything is given, it's infinite potential in the world, but we still have the make the decision to use it.This empty nest thing is not trivial. It's a big transition, and the more work and love you put into the meaning you made out of raising your kids (a whole lot, I have the feeling), the more you will feel it as a kind of loss. Not a loss like when somebody dies, but a loss of a very concentrated way of life and purpose just the same. So you have to honestly say goodbye to it and mourn it some. Anybody tells you "just cheer up and enjoy your freedom", well -- yes, but there's work to do first, to let the old way go. I have a hunch that's what is making it so hard to find what seems lost -- you're in transition and not ready to "be meaningful" in some other way yet. I think a few visits with a counselor (one that still has the old Eriksonian stages tucked away somewhere in his or her head) would help very much. After that -- you must learn make another kind of meaning, with all the love you put into the first meaning you made, and it will take time to build it. It may take the form of a new kind of work, or new creative interests of some other kind. Any of the passions you had once that have been on hold while you raised your family, even. I would say one good way to start out is to just get yourself physically refreshed and renewed. If you embark on a plan to make yourself stronger and healthier, it can literally lessen any residual blues that are still hanging around. (Also, it's part of the actual adjustment -- now YOU are the one you are going to focus on for a while, to get ready for what may come. It is not automatic -- it really does take some practice, if your salient role has been other little people's mom for so long.) I think the time of blues will pass, as haynes9 is saying, but I think you have a lot of proactive choices about making it pass. It could make this the most fantastic spring you have had in a very long time. |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 10-Feb-2006, 09:09 AM |
| Should have said this -- there's always the possibility that something a little more serious is going on, in the nature of depression, which is also fairly common for midlife moms. A good counsellor ought to be able to see that too, and refer you to someone who can treat it and help you sort it out. |
| Posted by: Elspeth 10-Feb-2006, 01:16 PM |
| Thanks guys. I really didn't mean to make this personal,  more I wanted to know what others found to be the purpose. But thanks for the free therapy  . I was raised with a 'do-er' mentality. Life was about what you could do for others. I never fit into the mode completly - the selfish little black sheep. So, I waver. Life is about what we do for others, but we can't be much to others if we don't make life a quest of learning. I think I need a major vacation. I need to go to Scotland with Annabelle. But seriously, please others chime in with what you feel is the purpose of life. |
| Posted by: Nightchild 11-Feb-2006, 08:49 AM | ||
That's dangerous. When considering life as what you can do for others you tend to do everything you can for them. Not bad, really, except for the danger of putting their needs and wants higher than your own. Someday you'll find yourself drained of all energy, because you gave it to someone else. We can't help others unless we ourselves feel good (speaking of long term). Help yourself to feeling good, then you can help others feeling good much more efficiently. Just needed to throw that in... |
| Posted by: haynes9 11-Feb-2006, 09:11 AM | ||
I hope I didn't come across as trying to put you through "therapy"  . As I previously said, you sound awfully normal to me (of course, those that know me say what I think is normal is "out there" )For my life, I have always found this little acrostic helpful: J-Jesus O-Others Y-Yourself A person cannot and should not hide from their problems and troubles, but I have found help in my own life by keeping things in their proper order. Have a great day, Elspeth, and thanks for bringing this topic up! Lord bless! |
| Posted by: Shadows 11-Feb-2006, 09:32 AM |
| My opinion is: Life is to be lived, you learn from what you live, every phase of life is a teaching and learning tool, what you take and give is in direct relation to your beliefs. The good and the bad, the up times and the down all teach us something! It is what you take away from these experiences that matters. Help could be sought or you could wade through on your own... Just keep in mind that you are never alone on this earth, ever! |
| Posted by: John Clements 21-Mar-2006, 11:19 AM |
| What is the purpose of life? I don’t know, I always thought that it was to become fertilizer, but we even managed too screwed that up, by planting ourselves in impermeable boxes! You know it’s amazing that people put up with me… I can’t even stand myself, and one of these days I’m gonna use one of those Clickable Smiles. Got to go, John |
| Posted by: Elspeth 21-Mar-2006, 01:05 PM |
| "I don’t know, I always thought that it was to become fertilizer, but we even managed too screwed that up, by planting ourselves in impermeable boxes!" Don't you just hate those dang vault things? Like who wants to be preserved but dead, like a pickle or something.. I want to be wrapped up in a quilt I made and put in a pine box. High class funeral would make it a hardwood box. Yep, I'm off topic, but hey, I started the thread. |
| Posted by: John Clements 21-Mar-2006, 03:38 PM |
| I don’t know about being off topic, after all isn’t death a part of life, besides doesn't one thread leads to another. I like the quilt idea, but if it's a really nice one. I think I would rather leave it for the living. As for me, I want to be wrapped in white linen, and slipped overboard, while a single piper blow’s Amazing Grace. Then everyone can get on with fishing. A bit morbid, but it could be an interest new topic? |
| Posted by: Dogshirt 21-Mar-2006, 05:30 PM |
| I really hope you aren't RAPED in white linen, it could muss your creases! |
| Posted by: John Clements 21-Mar-2006, 06:26 PM |
| Hey Dog shirt, can I call Dog for short? That’s funny….wrapped, raped… what difference does it make after your dead. I wish I knew how to write laughter. Thanks, the correction has been made. John |
| Posted by: Dogshirt 22-Mar-2006, 08:09 AM |
| Dog is fine John, or my friends call me Big Dog. Elspeth, are you feeling better about your search for meaning? I have been ALL over these forums and sometimes loose track of some that I mean to follow. I haven't forgotten you, just got sidetracked for awhile. |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 22-Mar-2006, 09:19 AM | ||
I think it says a lot about a person's mindset as well as suggesting something about what they think life is about. Personally, I would ideally like to be cremated and then strewn over a field of newly-planted chili peppers. Seriously! I have such an affinity for them as a life principle, I can't think of anything I'd rather become part of. |
| Posted by: Dogshirt 22-Mar-2006, 07:47 PM |
| Okay, looks like we're off on a tangent now! I want to be dressed in my dance outfit (Native American, see me photo album), wrapped in my good Pendleton and hung in the big pine on the south end of our property. |
| Posted by: sisterknight 23-Mar-2006, 08:18 AM |
| as it was said before death is part of life......we grow up knowing we are going to out live our parents(hopefully),grandparents and family pets.....when we are dead it's just clay that's left not the spirit and the laughter not what makes you you!!!that stays in the hearts and minds of those that are left behind. as for dying...well who wouldn't be a bit scared.....the funeral i want involves lots of drinking and telling stories about my misdeeds and the good stuff as well,definately want to be creamated and tossed over the land where my heart lies......new brunswick and maquapit lake! |
| Posted by: Elspeth 23-Mar-2006, 08:29 AM |
| OK, this burial stuff needs a thread of its own. Too interesting to get buried in a different thread. Hey Big Dog, thanks for thinking of me. Rather humbling that is. No, the meaning still eludes me. I know my children still need me in ways, but they are getting older, the process of nudging out of the nest has begun. My recovering alcoholic husband is learning to take care of himself and I’m letting him. What I am left with is a too small house that is too crammed with stuff nobody puts away that us supposed to somehow, amidst the clutter, be kept clean. Dishes that just get dirty again. People who want to eat everyday. Clothes that pile up and refuse to jump in the washer and wash themselves. A tiny yard that is nothing but mud from the kids and the dogs. Never-ending chores that no one helps with, no one appreciates, but which weigh upon me day and night. I have writings that probably will never be deemed good enough to be published. Forays into the publishing world end with rejection. Talents that just aren’t quite good enough to make any money off of and money is something I need. My kids need a taxi service to get them to and from three different schools every day and then all the multitude of after school activities. They add up quickly when there are four kids. And so do the costs. Their schedules dictate my life. Their schedules exhaust me. After I get done what has to be done, I have no energy for anything else. And probably a good thing, because there is nothing else. I’ve listed what I want from life and everything I want, except for my children, I can’t have. It used to be enough to immerse myself completely in their needs. It isn’t anymore, in a great part because they don’t need me 24/7 like they used to. So, what’s left? I’m not qualified to be hired to do anything I could feel passionate about. I don’t have the money or time to go back to school. Most masters programs hold their classes at night to accommodate working people. That’s when logistically I’m the busiest. I’ve got four kids fast approaching college and I can’t justify student loans form myself when they need their chance. Not their fault I blew mine. What was the question anyway….. Oh, yeah, meaning…. Fundamental Christianity says the purpose of life is to win souls to Christ. The thing is, I don’t think the way that has come to be portrayed is quite biblical. The purpose is to spread the Good News and then it’s up to the listener to decide what they are going to do with it. The Good News is out there already in this country. Often distorted, but out there. Sometimes I think life would make more sense working with people in their most simplest needs. Food, shelter, medical care, learning… Rocking crack babies to sleep…. This society has gotten way too complicated for me. I want to live in a commune. A community of like minded people who grow their own food, raise their own livestock, have intellectual discussions, make music, laugh, dance, revel in a sunny day, and snuggle down on cozy rainy ones. Know how to divide the work according to talent. Welcome in all for a visit, but only those who believe as does the community to stay. I do not feel the need to be inclusive to the world at all times. I want a place of respite where I can be who I am without having to defend it or accept within my home space to live those whose beliefs differ significantly. I’m not denying anyone their beliefs, but I want a place where I can be with people who believe as do I. OK, weird dream and completely impractical. Maybe I should become a Quaker. |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 23-Mar-2006, 10:48 AM | ||
Or a Zen Buddhist: “Before enlightenment: Chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment: Chop wood and carry water.” Wu Li This is really hard -- it sounds like a real box you are in, and especially when not having enough money means not having freedom. It isn't going to last, and partly that's good, but on the other hand you have said you already feel sad anticipating the time when being completely consumed by the kids' needs will suddenly be over. I haven't got practical suggestions I haven't already said, but I hope you keep the creative life, especially the writing, clear and coming forth. I think it's far more vital to you personally than a thing to make money with, wonderful as that would be, and as much as I wish it for you. |
| Posted by: Elspeth 23-Mar-2006, 11:37 AM |
| Great proverb. I like to get caught up in enlightenment and think I don't have to chop wood or carry water. That's the thing about caring for small children - you can't ignore their needs. God gave them cries like an airraid siren and stinky diapers for a reason. Impossible to not chop wood or carry water. Yeah, it's a box alreight and time will dissolve the walls. It's what to do in the meantime. Today was writing. As brother Richard says - anyday he fishes is a good day. Anyday I write, or now paint, is a good day. Maybe the meaning is that there is no great big meaning. It's all in the small stuff. |
| Posted by: Elspeth 23-Mar-2006, 04:55 PM |
| Here is my enlightenment for the day. Maybe.... Life really is a bunch of seemingly separate occurrences. And maybe there is no pattern, no master weaver in the sky putting it all together. But if you put a hundred random flowers in a great big vase, what a beautiful picture that would make and how sweet it would smell. |
| Posted by: Antwn 23-Mar-2006, 05:31 PM | ||
I have to tell you Elspeth, I really like the attitude your post expresses about finding beauty in the simple things. From your description of your life, it must be a hard conversion from Oprah moments to Roshi moments. I once read a story about Ralph Waldo Emerson, I dont' know if its true or just a tall tale. Apparantly one day his house caught fire and soon it was engulfed. He and his wife escaped and were standing watching their house burn. His wife turned to him understandably upset saying "My God we've lost everything", and Emerson said "Yes, I know - but isn't it a beautiful fire?" .....and then his wife decked him. Just kidding. |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 23-Mar-2006, 08:10 PM | ||
It reminds me of the story that is told of Sir Isaac Newton, whose spaniel named Diamond overturned a candle onto about twenty years of his work. He said something like "Oh, Diamond, you have no idea in your doggy little brain what a load of damage you just did, do you?" and then sat down right then and there and started to reconstruct his notes. Well, one account says he did that. Another account I ran into says he had his second nervous breakdown first -- but he still reconstructed his notes. |
| Posted by: Dogshirt 23-Mar-2006, 08:32 PM |
| Elspeth, I don't know if this will shed any light, but Black Elk said that if the universe is infinite in all directions, then anywhere you are is the center of the universe. So at any time the ENTIRE universe revolves around YOU. Yes the kids still monopolize your time, yes, your husband has needs, but YOU are the point that it ALL revolves around. Now, to take that a step further, if you should for any reason not be able to be there for them, then thier world will grind to a stop. And at this point they will have to become the centers of thier OWN universe. But at ALL times you are still at the center no matter what you are doing. So take some ME time and reflect on being the center, an perhaps read "Black Elk Speaks" he was pretty sharp for an uneducated Lakota man born in the mid-1800s. Washte! |
| Posted by: Elspeth 23-Mar-2006, 08:43 PM | ||
Since when did 'education' connotate to wisdom? I'll have to look that book up. Afterall I was the kid walking around Jr. high with copies of Light in the Forest, Only Earth and Sky Last Forever and I Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee. About time I read some philosophy as well. |
| Posted by: Antwn 28-Mar-2006, 05:16 PM |
| Well Stoirm, not to reduce Roshi-mind to mere environmental factors or anything, but both Newton and Emerson lived in decidedly less harried times. They had a bit more time to devote to rebuilds and rewrites. If I'd written several chapters of a novel and MS Word froze and it all got deleted in a flash, I wouldn't exactly be saying, "but isn't it just a lovely little program?" Hats off to Emerson and Newton however....assuming the stories are true. Elspeth - I read The Light in the Forest as a kid too! Matter of fact I was just thinking of that book the other day. I'd like to know more about the Eastern tribes, they seem under-represented, though there's some great stuff in 1491. |
| Posted by: le pwner 08-Apr-2006, 05:10 PM |
sorry for interrupting your cozy little chat since all of you seem to know each other, but i would like to add that you must find your own personal meaning of life. It has to be something you're completely interested in/devoted to. I figure you find something worth living for and then you have your meaning. (sounds so simple, right?) I haven't found mine yet, but hey i've got so much life left to live that it doesn't matter so much now!  heh i love reading these things. |