Printable Version of Topic Click here to view this topic in its original format

Celtic Radio Community > The Grove > What Is The Definition Of A Pagan Yours And Others

Posted by: celticwoodsman 14-Sep-2004, 01:14 PM

I set up this topic just to see how diverse paganism really is. It should be noted that Paganism is really just a loose term of non-Abrahamic...But I have compiled a short list of definitions. I just would invite any pagan, pagan friendly, or any person just to state what they think Paganism is, was, could be, or should be.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 14-Sep-2004, 01:15 PM

pa·gan n. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion. One who has no religion. A non-Christian. A hedonist. A Neo-Pagan. adj. Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. Professing no religion; heathen. Neo-Pagan. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Middle English, from Late Latin pgnus, from Latin, country-dweller, civilian, from pgus, country, rural district. See pag- in Indo-European Roots.] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pagan·dom (-dm) n. pagan·ish adj. pagan·ism n.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 14-Sep-2004, 01:17 PM

pagan \Pa"gan\ (p[=a]"gan), n. [L. paganus a countryman, peasant, villager, a pagan, fr. paganus of or pertaining to the country, rustic, also, pagan, fr. pagus a district, canton, the country, perh. orig., a district with fixed boundaries: cf. pangere to fasten. Cf. Painim, Peasant, and Pact, also Heathen.] One who worships false gods; an idolater; a heathen; one who is neither a Christian, a Mohammedan, nor a Jew. Neither having the accent of Christians, nor the gait of Christian, pagan, nor man. --Shak. Syn: Gentile; heathen; idolater. Usage: Pagan, Gentile, Heathen. Gentile was applied to the other nations of the earth as distinguished from the Jews. Pagan was the name given to idolaters in the early Christian church, because the villagers, being most remote from the centers of instruction, remained for a long time unconverted. Heathen has the same origin. Pagan is now more properly applied to rude and uncivilized idolaters, while heathen embraces all who practice idolatry.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 14-Sep-2004, 01:23 PM

I absolutely get a very bad taste in my mouth, when I hear that definition from webster's dictionary or other "literary" sources. I myself am a practicioner or member of a temple for pagans. I am a pagan. I have been raised with Native American Spiritualism, as well as Druidic teachings. My parents taught me well the values of nature, man, and the spirits. To me a pagan is a spiritualist; a person or a group of people known as a coven who follow no defined theocracy. As well as an earth centered belief system seeking perhaps calm or enlightenment in the self through the teachings of the wild. That is just my definition and my 2 cents.

Posted by: Aaediwen 14-Sep-2004, 04:30 PM

Seems to me like it has become a generic term for other than mainstream religons and belief systems. I don't quite agree with all of those definitions and I get bad feelings around the word 'heathen' I see that as some derogatory term that might be used by so called 'Christians' who are to closed minded to see beyond themselves and who would try to convert by force given the chance (Very un-Christian IMHO) I see Paganism as a very generic refrence. referring to the numerous belief systems 'of the people'. The traditional religons or faths of an area, as it was before the Bible was introduced to the area (Druidism, Shamanism, etc...), as well as modern faiths that are outside of the minstream, such as Wicca. To term Paganism as anything non judeo-Christian might be a little too loose, but fairly close I think. (Probably includes some it shouldn't) For any degree of precision at all, a more specific term should be used.

Posted by: Shadows 14-Sep-2004, 09:11 PM

I tend to agree with both of you... dictonaries are so cold! Paganism is a label that was put on us, not one we choose! The fact that the dictonaries say idol worship really burns my britches... I don't worship statues ( unlike some other religions that call themselves christian). I don,t worship satan, but I do have a great respect for all things and see the spiritualism in everything. I believe that every action I take has an effect on everything and everybody around me and it is my responsibility to see that those effects cause minimal disruption in the grand plan.

Posted by: urian 14-Sep-2004, 09:22 PM

QUOTE (Aaediwen @ 14-Sep-2004, 05:30 PM) I see Paganism as a very generic refrence. referring to the numerous belief systems 'of the people'. The traditional religons or faths of an area, as it was before the Bible was introduced to the area (Druidism, Shamanism, etc...), as well as modern faiths that are outside of the minstream, such as Wicca. To term Paganism as anything non judeo-Christian might be a little too loose, but fairly close I think. (Probably includes some it shouldn't)  For any degree of precision at all, a more specific term should be used. Again, I agree with my esteemed colleage on this one In this area(dddddddddddeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep in the heart of the bible belt) Pagan is anyone or anything thats not catholic, methodist, baptist, etc. I dont claim the mantle of Pagan because I have my own ideas that have some basis in "crhistian" teachings, buhddism, assatru, gonstic, taoism, etc but I have been called such because I am not a fundamental christian. I do not claim christian either, btw..eh..rambling Personally, I prefer HERETIC but thats just me

Posted by: Aaediwen 15-Sep-2004, 04:04 AM

Personally, I prefer the label (if one need be applied) of Agnostic. I believe in Christ and his teachings, and I also believe in Druidic and Wiccan teachings and schools of thought. In addition, Shadows has been my first real contact with a Shaman, and I have seen nothing to disagree with in what he's said of his faith either. It all fits together, and so it should. I, however, don't think my beliefs really fit under any one label. I've formulated my beliefs over hours of thought on the subject, and comparing the religons I've encountered. And marvelling at how they all say the same thing in different ways. There are so many elements of each one that I believe in, and so many elements I don't follow, that I find it difficult to classify myself. Although above all my faith and belief in God / Goddess is very strong. The only term I've found to describe that is Agnostic. I believe in Christ and his teachings. Even putting his identity as the son of God aside, the man still knew what he was talking about. Listen and learn! If someone wants me to sum up my beliefs, almost the first thing out of my mouth is the Wiccan rede. (sounds nice, easy to remember, doesn't sound Roman, and it sumerises the global truth by which all should live) I believe in a Druidic oneness with Nature. That the devine is manifest in nature, and from nature we can learn to protect, and nurture ourselves. However, if we are to expect Nature to protect us, then we must protect her.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 15-Sep-2004, 07:11 AM

I am so happy that I started this, kinda a pseuophilosophical discussion on labeling, introspection, and "Abrahamic history." As stated before, I referred to myself as a pagan. That term I use only for devout christians, and (for those of you in the US "Hot Topic") goths. I specifically use that so that there is lil or nor explanation. Let them believe what they want, no one has to "justify" their beliefs to me. To my family and friends in my temple. I am a member of a Pantheonic temple; I believe in mom...earth, and dad....spirit. You might have all these different names but to me its just plain and simple.....mom.....and .......dad.

Posted by: Sekhmet 16-Sep-2004, 07:55 PM

I myself was trained as a Gardnerian Wiccan. My thoughts and practices have since drifted considerably, but that's where I cut my teeth. Meanwhile I've picked up Native beliefs and a slew of other things. To address anyone's specific "flavor" of religion, I merely bring up the following: One hundred people could sit in the same church and not one person in there will have the same thoughts, feelings, emotional attachment, or associations as the person next to them. Why? Because we're all individuals, and nobody can claim identical experiences or thought. Therefore there are, sitting in the same church singing the same hymns and reading the same scriptures, one hundred interpretations of God. And they are all correct. It's no different anywhere else. I believe that every God that ever was and are now, are all equally valid. I believe in *all* of them. I just don't worship them all. Now that that's said and I can be a little less stuffy...merrily met, all. ::grin::

Posted by: Shadows 16-Sep-2004, 08:01 PM

Huzzah! Well said friend! You echo my thoughts well! Blessed Be!

Posted by: Sekhmet 16-Sep-2004, 08:23 PM

QUOTE (Shadows @ 16-Sep-2004, 10:01 PM) Huzzah! Well said friend! You echo my thoughts well! Blessed Be! ::grins more:: Why thank you!

Posted by: ANNHAM 16-Sep-2004, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (Shadows @ 14-Sep-2004, 11:11 PM) but I do have a great respect for all things and see the spiritualism in everything. I believe that every action I take has an effect on everything and everybody around me and it is my responsibility to see that those effects cause minimal disruption in the grand plan. Nicely said. I suppose all or most "religions" believe in the responsibility of taking care of the earth and our fellow men. I definately believe that basic moral teachings are paramount and I would not object to belonging to any "denomonation" where those beliefs (ie the Ten comandments or similar belief systems) were adhered to without the requirement of word for word belief in things that seem like fables and ledgends to me. "Paganism" and "Agnostic" have always seemed to me to be derogatory terms, so I think that belief systems that differ from the mainstream would be better served if they had names that didn't conjure up ancient derogatory meanings. I would even steer clear of new terms such as "New Age" because that seems to be generic for everything that is not mainstream and includes a wide variety of belief systems.

Posted by: Sekhmet 18-Sep-2004, 07:44 PM

QUOTE (ANNHAM @ 16-Sep-2004, 10:57 PM) "Paganism" and "Agnostic" have always seemed to me to be derogatory terms, so I think that belief systems that differ from the mainstream would be better served if they had names that didn't conjure up ancient derogatory meanings. I would even steer clear of new terms such as "New Age" because that seems to be generic for everything that is not mainstream and includes a wide variety of belief systems. I have another thought in that direction. While terms may be considered derogatory to the general populous, that doesn't mean that it can't change. Now admittedly, I pretty much despise the "New Age" label because to me it evokes images of crystal collecting and total strangers coming up to you and stating that you were lovers in a former life, so now would be a good time for a reunion lay. But that's me. The point to this is...I have no problems with the words "Pagan", or "Witch". Even "Agnostic" if it applied to me. Words can change their meanings and their connotations. If we're the first couple of generations that have to do that, well...so be it.

Posted by: bubba 18-Sep-2004, 10:45 PM

I can't say there really is a label for my faith. I suppose it's a collection of things from various faiths (note I don't say religion, I dispise religion as a vehicle by some to gain power over others). I don't need preachers of any kind telling me what and how to believe. My own view of the Creator leans toward a Goddess since males don't bring forth life. I suppose if a label is needed I'd have to call myself a bubbaist since my faith is my own and entirely personal, not subject to anyone elses whims or interpretations. I don't really know if you'd call it pagen, heathen or even heretical, it just is.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 20-Sep-2004, 08:41 AM

There are many wise people in this forum, and I do highly respect shadows on the enlightenment he has offered to us Now to take the matter a lil closer to the people who may frequent these forums members of celtic clans, irish families, or just with an interest in the celtic culture...Taoists, Buddhists, Confuscists, Hindus, they are all clustered in the original definition of "pagan" such that they are non-abrahamic in nature. We all agree in that. But with those who are in this list as spiritualists in "the Grove" is there a title or a difference between a "celtic pagan," "eurasian pagan," "SE asian pagan." If there is a celtic cousin in Australia and is a spiritualist (pagan) is he/she an "aussie pagan" because they may have some aboriginal people influence in their culture. I guess that what I am getting at, is we have established that the websters dictionary is a cold, harsh definition of pagan, as I am sure the definiton of witch is not much better. But what to you personally is your distinction, or perhaps as well how does one distinguish one belief from the next. We are all bothers and sisters of the earth, and I am not trying to pigeon hole one belief from the next, just trying to spark a good conversation, as well as trying to find ways to defeat the cold stereotype of witch, shaman, spiritualist, pagan.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 20-Sep-2004, 08:43 AM

witch \Witch\, n. [OE. wicche, AS. wicce, fem., wicca, masc.; perhaps the same word as AS. w[=i]tiga, w[=i]tga, a soothsayer (cf. Wiseacre); cf. Fries. wikke, a witch, LG. wikken to predict, Icel. vitki a wizard, vitka to bewitch.] 1. One who practices the black art, or magic; one regarded as possessing supernatural or magical power by compact with an evil spirit, esp. with the Devil; a sorcerer or sorceress; -- now applied chiefly or only to women, but formerly used of men as well. There was a man in that city whose name was Simon, a witch. --Wyclif (Acts viii. 9). He can not abide the old woman of Brentford; he swears she's a witch. --Shak.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 20-Sep-2004, 08:45 AM

sha·man Pronunciation Key (shämn, sh-) n. A member of certain tribal societies who acts as a medium between the visible world and an invisible spirit world and who practices magic or sorcery for purposes of healing, divination, and control over natural events. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Russian, from Tungus aman, Buddhist monk, shaman, from Tocharian B amne, monk, from Prakrit amana, from Sanskrit ramaa, from ráma, religious exercise.]

Posted by: bubba 20-Sep-2004, 09:16 AM

Personally, I think I'd rather be known as a heathen, all things considered. Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural heathens or heathen 1 : an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible 2 : an uncivilized or irreligious person Definition one fits me best I think. Pagan has taken on a bit much of the New Age mystical trappings for my tastes. Don't misunderstand, I have nothing against it if it does anyone good and helps them find balance in life, I just don't need the group thing. In matters of faith I'm very much a solitary sort.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 23-Sep-2004, 10:35 AM

I feel so happy that we have people of so many diverse experiences that we can have such great conversations in this forum, I drift in the other forums but none are as diverse i think than in this one...mind you I havent been in any of the locked forums, thats just because I have not been invited in not like that is a plug for a pw, just a statement. Now it has been stated over and over that we all believe in the concept of be mindful and be respectful, but how does one address conflict. I do not mean that if I see someone and their view is different than mine...I do not say that that person is wrong. Far be it from me to say that their path is different from my path so I must disagree to such a degree that I cause conflict. Too many wars have been caused due to the fact of a conflict in religious practice, not just within the Abrahamic religions but even in the "pagan" faiths. What I want to know through the advice of others is that how do we address a person who wants to be involved in a religion because it is "hollywood cool." It has been my experience, going to different ceremonies including esbats or festivals where you run into people who have watched movies too many times, and aside from wearing the hip clothing they talk of trying to curse a person in their school because of being in a different social circle, or using magick (dabbling) trying to mimic what they have seen in a movie, or worse going up to a priest/priestess...and saying that they are wrong in a ceremony because some book they got in the "new age" section states it has to be done this way. I have even come across people who have said that the priestess was not a "real" practicioner of "witchcraft" because she did not wear black or dye her hair black....any advise on what I can do to help alleviate these situations (other than ignoring them)?

Posted by: bubba 23-Sep-2004, 10:48 AM

I don't think there is much you can do. Outright laughter isn't polite and a sad shake of the head will probably go unnoticed. All you can do is tell them that, in spite of the movies, what works for a person is the right way for them and there isn't any specific way to do such things.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 23-Sep-2004, 01:12 PM

QUOTE (bubba @ 23-Sep-2004, 11:48 AM) Taken fron Bubba on a question in the fae: (abridged) Nobody has convinced me that I need anyone standing between myself and the Creator nor does anyone else have more understanding of the Creator, which I think of as the Goddess, than I can have. Fancy robes and a following don't mean anything more than power over others. I think we all need to find our own path, of which there are many to the same destination. The good thing with "paganism" is that as stated by shadow and myself, this belief "system" IS a spirituality, not a theocracy. We may choose to have a designated leader as a priest or priestess, but this is just like a president of a club lie the Hibernians, masons, or elks. (i hope they don't mind that I lumped them together) We (rather I) do not need a robed person to tell me what to believe, quite honestly I see no fault in a person who does desire this...we all need a guide sometimes. I do not bash theocracy, and neither does bubba, nor shadows, or any one one this list that I know of but I do think that what sets us apart from montheistic theocracies is that we are dependant on solely our personal relationship with the gods, goddesses, mom, dad, whatever.

Posted by: Sekhmet 23-Sep-2004, 01:38 PM

QUOTE (celticwoodsman @ 23-Sep-2004, 12:35 PM) It has been my experience, going to different ceremonies including esbats or festivals where you run into people who have watched movies too many times, and aside from wearing the hip clothing they talk of trying to curse a person in their school because of being in a different social circle, or using magick (dabbling) trying to mimic what they have seen in a movie, or worse going up to a priest/priestess...and saying that they are wrong in a ceremony because some book they got in the "new age" section states it has to be done this way. I have even come across people who have said that the priestess was not a "real" practicioner of "witchcraft" because she did not wear black or dye her hair black....any advise on what I can do to help alleviate these situations (other than ignoring them)? Ahh, the fluffbunnies. Personally, the ones that dress like Stevie Nicks barfed on them or are head to toe black (including hair, nails, toenails, and bad makeup) amuse me, but that's me. The ones so far lost in their Hollywood fantasy that they couldn't tell a wand from an athame, quite frankly, are the ones who give the group as a whole a bad image. You can't exactly be taken seriously with those around. I always hold out hope that they'll someday either drift to another fad or this is a phase and they'll get over it. At least my sister managed that and a few others. I've tried to educate people like that. It's been my experience that they don't want help, they don't want guidance, they want to project this image because it's "kewl". I keep trying, I'll admit it. But eventually I cut them loose. Usually I just smile and nod and let them go about their business. When they irritate me, I ask them what they feed their esbats. The stunned look is priceless.

Posted by: bubba 23-Sep-2004, 03:22 PM

QUOTE (Sekhmet @ 23-Sep-2004, 01:38 PM) When they irritate me, I ask them what they feed their esbats. The stunned look is priceless. That's great! Mind if I steal it?

Posted by: Sekhmet 23-Sep-2004, 03:30 PM

QUOTE (bubba @ 23-Sep-2004, 05:22 PM) That's great! Mind if I steal it? Heck no! Steal away!

Posted by: celticwoodsman 24-Sep-2004, 09:18 AM

fluffbunnies....twinks....LOL I dont want to bash a counter culture or subculture for their tactics, but when you can put them in their place like that it is just so awesome....I have been ablle to sit down and talk to a couple of them where they stop buying "spencer's goods" penticles (the ones with the skulls, & glass eyes) and talk to them, introduce them to my priestess. I just say are you doing this because your friends are, or because you want to...Dependant on the answer...some ( 1 out of A LOT) actually want to be involved, and just don't have the right resources. When I can help that one I feel so happy

Posted by: silverdragon 24-Sep-2004, 02:16 PM

ag·nos·tic Pronunciation: ag-'näs-tik, &g- Function: noun Etymology: Greek agnOstos unknown, unknowable, from a- + gnOstos known, from gignOskein to know -- more at KNOW : a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and prob. unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god Not me... I'm convinced there's something... her·e·tic Pronunciation: 'her-&-"tik Function: noun 1 : a dissenter from established church dogma; especially : a baptized member of the Roman Catholic Church who disavows a revealed truth 2 : one who dissents from an accepted belief or doctrine : NONCONFORMIST There I go... that's me!

Posted by: Aaediwen 24-Sep-2004, 04:40 PM

Hmm, what Agnostic means to me is along the lines of one who does not follow any perticular belief system, yet has their belief in the existance of a supreme diety. I believe very strongly in the existance of God(s)/Goddess(es), but I don't practice or follow any named belief system or religon. I have my own view on the identity of the devine.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 27-Sep-2004, 07:46 AM

perhaps instead of a pagan beliefs and practices title we should call it heritics, and agnostics. I always thought that a heretic was a person who had "hearth wisdom" I guess it can be the case...An old sage or midwife may tell stories warning of lilith towards a lil child, or not to bathe in the river for you might die. I guess that those stories could be considered dissention. I recall an old story from the area around the Great Lakes that originated from Polish immigrants: Do not go swimming in the lake before the feast of John the Baptist. The waters are not consecrated before that, and a curse shall come upon you. Being interested in historical epidemics, a few of us decided to investigate this tidbit of hearth wisdom. People remember stories of children dying from consumption on the shores of Lake Erie up until the 1960's. It just so happens that the number of cases of TB (consumption) before June 24th was quite dramatic. So though this is an example where reverence to a dogma is cherished and respected, there are many other stories of old wives tales or lore that can be stepped in legend or local folk lore, that may seem against the theology of christiandom and still have a good basis to follow. In a way if you do listen to the wisdom of a midwife (not just in the legends of the hearth) you may be labeled a heretic...but you might just live longer.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 29-Sep-2004, 09:05 AM

To further add to this list, does anyone else have any "hearth stories" from their region. Local old wives tales, superstitious sayings, that are unique to your area? I have listed above one on the Lake Erie region of the US. This may not be specifically pagan, but those would be welcome. We have a discussion on Fae, why not lead this forum list further away from pagan/christian differences, and perhaps draw from similarities. If not hearth wisdom, then some traditions or other similarities in culture. Some common examples: Day of the Dead (spanish catholic), Samhain (pagan), All Saints/souls days (catholic). Yule(pagan), Christmas (christian) aside from those perhaps just observations in similarities. I mean we can all look at a calander and see that there are dates that are close...What else?

Posted by: Ceciliastar1 30-Sep-2004, 05:19 PM

celticwoodsman your definition pretty much sums up what I have alway thought a pagan to be.

Posted by: urian 30-Sep-2004, 06:12 PM

celticwoodsman, dont forget lupercalia and Valentines day as well but the similarities only exist due to the powers that be at the time trying to find ways to convert the pagan "dogs". SO they made their holidays coincide with the pagan ones. anyway...I'll shut up

Posted by: Balachasen 01-Oct-2004, 01:48 AM

Hallo, Ciamar a tha leibh? 'S mise Raff as an Sealainn nuadh....Feumaidh mi canain de m' clann..... Tha m' clann an clann Rosaich, an clann Ghill' Innein, an clann Grannt agus an clann Marr. Im from NZ, and as you can see im proud to pay homage to my clan ancestry. I greet all gaedhlig speakers with particular warmth.....despite my own Gaedhlig not yet being so strong. Pagan for me signifies culture, a bond with nature and people, good things pre-christian and post-christian, muffins and cider, Gaedhlig, clann affiliations, grounded spirituality, warm natural colours, being close to one's soul, personal unfixed religion, modan, rejoicing in and being proud of a full, rich life, that links past present and future. I think Pagan means rejoicing all the good things in life. Slainte mhath, Balachasen Raff Dellavaris

Posted by: celticwoodsman 01-Oct-2004, 08:38 AM

urian, there is no need to shut up, that is actually a very strong belief that christians adapted other religious holidays in order to convert. I am not putting a spin on this to say if it was right, or if this is the actual thought behind the practices but here are some more examples that i have found in my armchair discussions, and historical research: (references provided on request): Sunday, rather than saturday for the christian sabbath was not decided by a "pope" but rather an emperor. A final act of "spite" by the emperor that followers of Jesus the Nazarean honor their sabbath on the day of the sun god. (assumption by theologins and cultural anthropologists) It is fabled that Justinian of the Eastern Roman empire (527-65) was converted though his wife was a "pagan" from Syria: The Corpus Juris is full of laws against paganism (apostasy was punished by death, 10 c., "De pag.", I, 11), Jews, Samaritans (who began a dangerous revolt in 529), Manichaeans, and other heretics. The decrees of the four general councils were incorporated in the civil law. There was no toleration of dissent. True to the ideal of Constantinople, the emperor conceived himself as "priest and king", supreme head on earth in matters ecclesiastical as well as in the State. He filled his codex with canon law and assumed the most outspoken Erastianism as the law of the empire.

Posted by: celticwoodsman 01-Oct-2004, 08:40 AM

on the "communion of saints" ...the Christian religion; and they manifested their devotion to them both in public and private worship: in public, by celebrating the anniversaries of individual saints, and keeping annually the feast of All-Hallows as a solemnity of the first class; and in their private devotions, by observing the instructions to worship God and then to "pray, first to Saint Mary, and the holy apostles, and the holy martyrs, and all God's saints, that they would intercede for them to God". In this way they learned to look up to the saints in heaven with feelings of confidence and affection, to consider them as friends and protectors, and to implore their aid in the hour of distress, with the hope that God would grant to the patron what he might otherwise refuse to the supplicant. Believed to be initiated in Eire, and other Iles by Patrick as an explaination to "pagans" why they should pray to one god, as opposed to their many.

Posted by: Ceciliastar1 01-Oct-2004, 09:26 AM

Okay, so I've been Catholic all my life (not really practicing anymore) but celitcwoodsman that is the best explanation of what Catholics do when it comes to Mary and the saints. I have never heard it put better. Not priest has ever been able to explain it to me. Wow! Thanks for making me finally understand! haha!

Posted by: urian 01-Oct-2004, 12:53 PM

Celtic, We could discuss this all day. (its one of my passions) but I think we should start another thread on it. Similarities / forced and otherwise. between christian faiths and others. Having studied a myriad of books and religions I think we could had a wonderful times discussing this topic

Posted by: celticwoodsman 04-Oct-2004, 12:15 PM

Just stating a similarity in some pagan religions that have been christianized. If you want to start another thread that is cool, but I will not be involved if there is a paganism is better because... I like to show that we are all one, and even the evangelicals see some types of paganism as "lost 'brothers & sister'" where I see that I am not lost, just an a path with a better view. I am glad that I was able to help out with the explaination of sainthood. No christian can speak of that as slander because it was originally from a christian source. If anyone has more questions on the similarities of paganism and christiandom I can also help out, (especially if there is another forum started for it). I am here to educate and have intellectual "arguments" (if you do not understand the terms of argument see philosophy) .

Posted by: urian 04-Oct-2004, 12:56 PM

QUOTE (celticwoodsman @ 04-Oct-2004, 12:15 PM) Just stating a similarity in some pagan religions that have been christianized. If you want to start another thread that is cool, but I will not be involved if there is a paganism is better because... I like to show that we are all one, and even the evangelicals see some types of paganism as "lost 'brothers & sister'" where I see that I am not lost, just an a path with a better view. I grew up around "Fundamentals" and "Devouts" that believed their way was better and everyone else was going to burn. Likewise I have friends who believe Paganism is better because... Myself. I am not that way. I have my own beliefs and they are different from (well everyone's so far ). I dont belief my school of thought is better or worse than anyone elses so I would never start a thread that would be anything akin to that.

Posted by: bubba 04-Oct-2004, 08:27 PM

To my way of thinking the only inferior beliefs are ones that cause harm. There are many paths to the same destination and no one path is the right one for everyone. Each person has to choose what's right for them. If it causes no harm do it and protect the weak from the strong.

Posted by: Annham 04-Oct-2004, 09:36 PM

QUOTE I grew up around "Fundamentals" and "Devouts" that believed their way was better and everyone else was going to burn. Not a very good reason to adopt a belief system is it? What if there were no consequences (ie...to go to heaven or hell) in believing in this or that? What if we were all to believe and aspire to what is right and just? Then, what would we all believe important? I think we need to separate the wheat from the chaff. Really, I think we would pretty much all come to the same conclusions as to what is important. Anne

Posted by: urian 04-Oct-2004, 09:39 PM

QUOTE (Annham @ 04-Oct-2004, 09:36 PM) Not a very good reason to adopt a belief system is it? What if there were no consequences (ie...to go to heaven or hell) in believing in this or that? What if we were all to believe and aspire to what is right and just? Then, what would we all believe important? I think we need to separate the wheat from the chaff. Really, I think we would pretty much all come to the same conclusions as to what is important. Anne very true , Ann. I think it was that narrow view that helped spur me on to learn as much I could and to become my own person in many ways.

Posted by: Shadows 04-Oct-2004, 09:48 PM

You all are finding the true issues of faith and beliefes... the creator is a personal things and no one can tell you that you are wrong as long as you believe it in your heart.

Posted by: Annham 04-Oct-2004, 09:58 PM

Me Too!

Posted by: bubba 05-Oct-2004, 08:58 AM

QUOTE (Shadows @ 04-Oct-2004, 09:48 PM) You all are finding the true issues of faith and beliefes... the creator is a personal things and no one can tell you that you are wrong as long as you believe it in your heart. There is faith and there is religion. They are not neccesarily the same thing. My parents were rather unhappy when I abandoned the Lutheran religion that they raised me with but over time they've come to see that my choice of faith is as valid as theirs.

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 05-Oct-2004, 08:42 PM

If I may please join this discussion, I have chosen to go with out a "Label" yet I am called a Pagan, which is fine. Call me what you wish but do not judge me. I am searching for something more then what "Man" says is available to me. I am searching for unity, oneness, true happiness. A way to become what I know I have in me for the betterment of all. All of us are connected to each other and everything around us. Pagan to me means the ability to be my true self, letting the Prana of the Universe take care of me and those around me. Having a REAL relationship with Mother Earth and Father Sun or what ever you want to call them. In doing this I am able to have better relationships with those around me. I do not worship Idols. But I do give thanks every day all day to the higher power for what I receive. I am sure you can tell I am not a theologian but I am a very spiritual person. I know that there is a higher Power then myself but, I also know that I am a part of that higher power and so are all of you, Just as are the rest of the people on this level of existence. Faith is believing, Religion is brain washing to an extent. I am searching for "True Happiness" that comes from within and from the one. This might not make any sense to some of you and that is ok. we are all on our own paths. To live in the moment and be content and happy to know with out a doubt that no matter what there is always good in every thing. To love everyone and everything unconditionally. Those are my goals and my path. With deepest love for you all, Angel

Posted by: bubba 06-Oct-2004, 07:34 AM

Angel, sounds to me like you found your path. Everyone is different and there is no one correct path anymore than there's one true faith. May the God and Goddess be with you and guide your steps.

Posted by: Angel Whitefang (Rider) 06-Oct-2004, 12:56 PM

LOL! Bubba to be honest I don't know if this is it or not but it feels right to my heart and as long as it feels that way I will walk that path. I Thank you for your blessing and encouragement though

Posted by: celticwoodsman 06-Oct-2004, 02:36 PM

well spoken angel, to be happy is be love yourself, and love one another....and I am sure that you just didnt type it but I have to state to love of your god(s). Basic accross the board on all religions and spiritual paths. Thanks for entering this conversation, and please continue to add to this conversation. I was so nervous to create a forum thread like this because I did not know if people would respond or care....I am glad i was wrong.

Posted by: freekenny 11-Oct-2004, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Shadows @ 14-Sep-2004, 10:11 PM) I do have a great respect for all things and see the spiritualism in everything. I believe that every action I take has an effect on everything and everybody around me and it is my responsibility to see that those effects cause minimal disruption in the grand plan. O'siyo Shadow, ~ Here! Here! Respect earned is Respect given~ Personally, I enjoy causing 'minimal disruption' in the everyday scheme of things for I have found that on more than one occassion it causes a 'flurry of change'..if not change then it damn sure made people, as well as myself, contemplate I 'see' the importance of my spirituality in the everyday 'interactions' I have the privilege of experiencing~ ~Sty-U

Posted by: Aaediwen 12-Oct-2004, 05:41 AM

QUOTE (celticwoodsman @ 06-Oct-2004, 03:36 PM) well spoken angel, to be happy is be love yourself, and love one another....and I am sure that you just didnt type it but I have to state to love of your god(s). Basic accross the board on all religions and spiritual paths. Thanks for entering this conversation, and please continue to add to this conversation. I was so nervous to create a forum thread like this because I did not know if people would respond or care....I am glad i was wrong. Remembering the core truths in a day when so many seem to have forgotten is something to be proud of. Many of us like to voice our beliefs in an environment where we won't get flamed for the truth. We care, we like to talk, and we know where we stand Stand proud! Blessed be

Posted by: urian 13-Oct-2004, 11:14 PM

QUOTE (Aaediwen @ 12-Oct-2004, 05:41 AM) Remembering the core truths in a day when so many seem to have forgotten is something to be proud of. Many of us like to voice our beliefs in an environment where we won't get flamed for the truth. We care, we like to talk, and we know where we stand Stand proud! Blessed be Well said , brother. I couldnt have put it any better. THough I dont post much here, I do enjoy the fact that ther is a boschetto to come to when I need a voice and a sanctuary.

Posted by: dragonboy3611 06-Nov-2004, 04:19 PM

The way everyone implies pagan could be really different. Someone who is spiritual, friendly, kind, and worshipes the earth-goddess. Or one who is non-christian Or one who... Or one who... Or one who....

Powered by Invision Power Board (https://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (https://www.invisionpower.com)