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| Celtic Radio Community > Wales > Absolutely Unacceptable |
| Posted by: Siarls 13-May-2005, 12:22 PM |
| I am a member of a Gaelic forum. I have tried and given up many times to learn the language of my ancestors - Scottish Gaelic. However, while on this site, recently I got drawn into an argument about British English. I feel that British English is an acceptable term while it is also an OFFICIAL term. Yet a pretentious Scotsman insists he speaks Standard Scottish English - which sounds like a Scotsman's attempts to differentiate himself from England and justify why he does not speak Gaelic - the TRUE native language of Scotland. When he suggested I speak English English (a term I think in itself is ridiculous), I said that I did not like to be considered English... my exact words were, "I haven't a problem with the English, but I am NOT English". He replied: Has Wales finally regained its independence then? I didn't think there had been such a country since Edward the Confessor conquered it in the late thirteenth century.... I was so deeply offended, I began to feel sick. I would like to know what you think I should do? Do I email the moderators of this forum? Can we protest at all, as I'm sure you are horrified by this comment as well? |
| Posted by: Cù Dubh 13-May-2005, 01:20 PM |
| I absolutely agree with you Siarls, but I think what you have to remember though that unlike Wales 99% of the population of Scotland have little or no knowledge of Gaidhlig. Which creates a kind of inferiority complex amongst many Scots. Are we Scottish or simply North Britons who speak English with a Scottish accent? All i can say is that not all Scots think like this guy. I see myself more Celtic than Scottish, part of a bigger picture so to speak. I hope your views on Scotland & the Scots won't be affected by this guy. Sounds like he has an inferiorty complex to me, which in Scotland is actual quite common.  |
| Posted by: Cù Dubh 13-May-2005, 01:30 PM |
| Just quote this Gaidhlig saying Siarls:- "S fhèarr Gáidhlig bhriste na Beurla chliste"... ...Better broken Gaidhlig than perfect English.  |
| Posted by: Siarls 13-May-2005, 02:45 PM |
| I've heard the same expression about Welsh actually, not sure where! Yeah, at first, I was really offended and began to lash out in my mind about Scotland, but I am slowly getting over it. I emailed a moderator of that particular forum and may just stick to Celtic Radio as there have been arguments in there before (not me, but others). I've always felt it helped that the word Welsh describes both nationality and language because it makes them one and the same. If you are proud to be Welsh, you're proud of Welsh. I've known many Scots who are not proud of Gaidhlig, but of Scots (which seems to be a lapse in self-awareness). |
| Posted by: gwenynen 13-May-2005, 03:48 PM |
| Besides, Edward who invaded Wales in the 13th century wasn't 'the Confessor.' It was Edward I. Edward the Confessor was the king over 100 years before the latter. |
| Posted by: Cù Dubh 13-May-2005, 03:56 PM |
| As far as Scots is concerned, I think a little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing if you know what i mean. I'm a Lowlander & was brought up speaking Scots Not Gaidhlig. Then i was drawn to learning Gaidhlig. I don't know why, but i was and i'm so glad that i started learning the ancient tongue of Scotland. For many Scottish people though Gaidhlig just doesn't figure in the equation. So the next best thing is Scots - the reasoning being i think...'I'm definitely not English, but hey i don't speak Gaidhlig either - Ah but i do speak Scots...so therefore i'm different from the English'. I'm one of those few Scots who advocate both highland & lowland cultures. Although I have to say the more Gaidhlig i learn the less important Scots becomes to me. But not every Scot can travel the same path as myself. For the moment we have a parliament of sorts. Perhaps someday in the near future we can break away from England entirely & all our insecurities at the same time. Cò aig a tha fios? - Who knows? |
| Posted by: Faileas 13-May-2005, 04:28 PM |
| And then there is me again , lololol. What should I say about this, Siarls? As most of you know I am not born in the British Isles and rather reluctant to admit my true nationality, which is on paper only anyway as far as I am concerned. I loved Britain since I first heard the language (English at the time) spoken when I was eleven and the Scotland - Gaelic fever gripped me about 8 years ago when I first stumbled over Runrig. I have a celtic heritage of which I am proud and which is historically cemented - southern Germany was an area of Celtic population and that was touched and re-animated by these lads. I since have accepted the language and the culture as my own - as some of you know I sing with the gaelic district choir of Port Righ and have studied at Sabhal Mor Ostaig for ten months which got me my Certificate of Higher Education in Gaelic and I truly would love to finish the BA Language and Culture if my finances would allow that. So for me the point is that an official paper states facts carved in stone ..., mostly exact the opposite, sad enough. Shame for that guy who said that remark, Siarls, but I truly can confirm you that only a very small minority are like that. Cu Dubh however is not far off the mark ..., which is no small wonder in my eyes. People should get their facts right before they start arguing about it .... Thanks for that, Gwen!  |
| Posted by: Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 13-May-2005, 05:36 PM |
| Siarls, You should feel free to contact a moderator any time you feel someone is getting out of line, whether it's the moderator of the forum or any other moderator you feel comfortable with. I am one of those whose own ancestry includes deep Celtic roots (DNA studies suggest my paternal line was in 3d Century Ulster) and many Confederate soldiers who are the source of Celtic roots my mother's side of the family. IMHO, the Celts have been the subject of attempted cultural genocide at least since Roman times, and my Confederate heritage is also under attack. I would be gravely concerned both personally and as a moderator if the thread at issue were yet another facet of the English attempt to suppress Britain's Celtic roots, which as many are well aware has been rather brutal in past centuries. One of my own Scot lineages--the Livingstons--is a lowland family, likely of Saxon descent. As I understand it, and my understanding is far from perfect, Scots language and modern English both derived from Old English. A brief history, which includes the English effort to extinguish both Scots and Gaelic, can be found at: http://scotsyett.com/anent/brief_history.htm. In my view, attempts to denigrate Gaelic as being less worthy or less Scottish than Scots are totally unwarranted. |
| Posted by: Siarls 15-May-2005, 03:43 PM |
| It's warming to see so much support for the Celtic lands. |
| Posted by: Eiric 16-May-2005, 12:28 AM |
| Ah must say that this Scottish person must be a very stupid person... And by the way, There's not even a real English English as far as I know. No one really speak English. I have heard so many Eglish dialects all laiming that they are true English, but none of them sounds exactly the same, and btw, I think it is stupid to use the term English English... Keep on fighting for yer language(s) and ignore those who try to make them self a better refletion in the mirror than they earn... |
| Posted by: Siarls 18-May-2005, 05:07 AM |
| I find it is quite common to be snide toward Wales. When I was in London, a lot of English people seemed to express resent. One boy told me, "The Welsh only speak that language to rubbish the English". I replied, "First of all, Welsh is a language far older than English - we didn't invent it just to rubbish you. Secondly, get over yourself - you aren't that important. We have so much to talk about, we do have lives. Thirdly, if I were to rubbish you - I'd do it in English to your face, so you'd understand me". |
| Posted by: susieq76 18-May-2005, 08:14 AM |
| Siarls, I am so sorry that you had an issue with someone here! I am also sorry that he felt the need to blatantly point out his stupidity and ignorance in public, lol! I am glad that you have decided to stick around, as you are a big part of this community and someone I consider a friend! It's like we say here at work (in reference to this guy): Consider the source, and pay it no mind. Let me know if you need anything. |
| Posted by: Siarls 21-May-2005, 02:17 AM |
| Diolch yn fawr. But don't worry, I love Celtic languages too much to let someone deter me. I got some book vouchers for my birthday, so later I am off to look at resources for Scots Gaelic, maybe Irish and Breton. Perhaps Catalan as well, although it's not Celtic - I love the look of Catalan and Barcelona is just SOOOOOO amazing. Top 5 list!  |
| Posted by: Shadows 21-May-2005, 05:57 AM | ||
Susieq76 I don't think Siarls' problem was here on CR. If I read the initial post correctly it is another forum that Siarls belongs to where the problem was encountered If the trouble was here then shame on us. |
| Posted by: MacEoghainn 21-May-2005, 07:29 AM | ||
Yes I know I've gone  here, but here I go anyway. Pardon my lack of knowledge of this particular colloquialism (what can I say, I'm just a dumb Yank ). Could someone please define the use of the word "rubbish" in this instance (I think I know how the word is being used, but I want to be sure). |
| Posted by: WizardofOwls 21-May-2005, 11:21 AM |
| Yes, unless I am mistaken the original incident took place on a Gaelic forum that Siarls and I both visit. I'm not a moderator there, so I couldn't say anthing. I think the situation was handled fairly well there by the moderators, but they could have come down a little harder on the offender in my opinion. |
| Posted by: Siarls 23-May-2005, 05:03 AM |
| rubbish means to, well, the word that was actually used was an obscenity so I was trying to be diplomatic. it's to disparage. is that a word? |
| Posted by: MacEoghainn 24-May-2005, 06:57 PM | ||
Ok, now I see where you were going with that word. I'd ask what the original word was but I think I'll "leave sleeping dogs lie". |
| Posted by: susieq76 25-May-2005, 03:37 PM | ||||
Yeah! I was having a jet-lag, blonde moment and completely misunderstood him! Thanks so much!! |
| Posted by: Shadows 26-May-2005, 03:21 PM |
| No problem and you are welcome! |
| Posted by: Siarls 27-May-2005, 11:22 AM |
| And I apologise for my ambiguity! |