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Celtic Radio Community > General Discussion > Should The US Go Metric?


Posted by: tsargent62 17-Mar-2004, 09:27 AM
What do you think? The United States is the only industrialized nation to not go metric. Do we need to? Why not? Why haven't we? Is it arrorgance (we don't have to because we're the US)?

Posted by: oldraven 17-Mar-2004, 09:46 AM
I look at it this way, we're all using the 24hr clock, we're all using the 365 (366) day calendar, why aren't we all using one standard of measurement? I live in a Metric country, and we are still forced to use standard feet & inches in our industrial sector. Why? Because our closest cousin still uses it, and since the states has a greater impact on industry, we have to conform. But it's confusing as hell.

They started teaching metric when I started school, and that's all I knew, until the day I became a machinist and a drafter. It's like I had to relearn everything I knew. Pain in the arse.

From where I'm standing, it just sounds like a bunch of stuborn old schoolers WON'T change. And I'm talking industrial leaders, not the people. You can teach the kids, but if industry doesn't change, nothing will. You're already using metric in many areas for the same reason I have to use ' & ".

The world automotive market has switched to metric, and American cars use half foreign products, so metric bolts, volume, etc. are beingused. Electronics have made the switch to metric for the same reasons. An American DVD player or camera with Japanese parts.

Then there's always the obvious reasons. It's a hell of a lot easier to devide a number by ten than by twelve or three. sly.gif

It just makes sense. Now it's all up to the local industry in the US to make the change.

Posted by: tsargent62 17-Mar-2004, 10:28 AM
The military is all metric. The medical industry is metric as well. I feel for you OR. I remember when Canada went metric in the late '70s. The only ppl who had real trouble were the older folks.

I'm hoping you're right about the "old school" types. Most ppl of my generation would gladly go metric. So, maybe once Congress is made up of those of us born in the '60s, things'll change. I hope so. It might cause some initial expenses, changing road signs and what-not. But I think the overall effect would be positive.

Posted by: birddog20002001 17-Mar-2004, 10:51 AM
Here in North Carolina the state passed a law stateing that within a certain date they would go metric for all highway jobs. The the Engineers, Construction crews, surveyors, etc... pretty much revolted. We had to use feet (inches), feet (tenths) and metric. The state then reversed its decision stating that no jobs were to be in metric, except the jobs that had already been put on paper. So 8 years later we were still out in the field converting back and forth looking for metric rulers etc. memorizing new pace counts and body measurements. I prefer tenths as my favorite measuring system but I really don't care if every one would stick to the decision they make.

Posted by: Herrerano 17-Mar-2004, 11:05 AM
Down here we are a metric country, although curiously both systems are in use. Gasoline is sold by U.S. gallon, but here at the plant we buy ethanol by liters. Weight is measured by kg and distance by kilometer, but often things will be sold by pounds. Confusing, no, just interesting. As far as I know every other latin country uses the 24 hour clock, here most people will just look at you with confusion if you would say you go to bed at 22.30.

Any sort of drawings we do are usually dual dimensioned to avoid confusion. I keep my trusty SI conversions close by the desk. As far as if the U.S. should go completely to the SI, I don't much care one way or the other since I am accustomed to converting anyway. So, in that vein I didn't bother to vote tongue.gif .

Leo cool.gif

Posted by: Annabelle 17-Mar-2004, 11:54 AM
NO


Posted by: tsargent62 17-Mar-2004, 11:55 AM
QUOTE (Annabelle @ Mar 17 2004, 12:54 PM)
NO

OK, why not?

Posted by: oldraven 17-Mar-2004, 12:17 PM
QUOTE (Annabelle @ Mar 17 2004, 10:54 AM)
NO

Come on. That's not an answer. You just came off as extremely thick and stuborn. You've got to support your answer with some sort of reasoning, other wise there's no debate and you've represented your side as, like I said before, one of those suborn old school types.

I know you love the talk, so let's have it. smile.gif

Posted by: Dugadelphia 17-Mar-2004, 12:43 PM
Personally, I would like to see the US adopt the metric system.

As to why that has not happened yet, I think that is a matter of the approach used to teach the "new" system back in the 70s. Teaching was based upon learning the metric system by converting from inches, pounds, ounces, etc. into metric measurements instead of simply adopting and teaching metric measurements. I think not letting go of the old contributed to never adopting the new.

Posted by: tsargent62 17-Mar-2004, 12:47 PM
QUOTE (Dugadelphia @ Mar 17 2004, 01:43 PM)
Personally, I would like to see the US adopt the metric system.

As to why that has not happened yet, I think that is a matter of the approach used to teach the "new" system back in the 70s. Teaching was based upon learning the metric system by converting from inches, pounds, ounces, etc. into metric measurements instead of simply adopting and teaching metric measurements. I think not letting go of the old contributed to never adopting the new.

I was never taught conversion. I was taught straight out measurement. Maybe it depends on where you're from as to how you were taught.

Posted by: oldraven 17-Mar-2004, 01:06 PM
Same here. I got flat out metric in school. My brother says that his first few years of elementary (grade school in the US) he was taught inches, then when they switched it was full out metric as well. That's why it always made more sense to me than to those that came before.

I never use metric in my job, and it's quite frustrating to know just how much simpler everything could be.

Posted by: Eamon 17-Mar-2004, 01:10 PM
I have enough trouble with the U.S. system, but we do use the metric system alot. I have metric tools, and when we brew beer, we use liters, etc. I personally didn't have a problem figuring stuff out when I was in Europe, but it gave some of my travelling companions fits.

It might be a bit dangerous driving to work the first few weeks when they switched over (folks driving around at 100mph rather than 100kph).

Eamon

Posted by: oldraven 17-Mar-2004, 01:16 PM
Yeah, that's another thing. A speedo that registers 200 is WAY cooler than one that registers 125. laugh.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 17-Mar-2004, 01:35 PM
Depends on the car. My Jetta shows 160 (it'll do 120). Although 200 would be cooler.

Posted by: oldraven 17-Mar-2004, 02:08 PM
Well, mine shows 200 (and it's done that, with lots left to go. but what's the point when you can't tell anymore?) but US versions of the same car were only equiped with 85mph speedos. Don't ask me why. Something to do with gov. regulation or something.

Posted by: JaneyMae 17-Mar-2004, 03:47 PM
Geez Louise Peanut Butter!!! Don't make me learn anything else that will just mess with my tired brain!! I'm still trying to figure out how far a mile is.................... cry.gif no.gif nono.gif

Posted by: Eamon 17-Mar-2004, 04:19 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ Mar 17 2004, 03:08 PM)
Well, mine shows 200 (and it's done that, with lots left to go. but what's the point when you can't tell anymore?) but US versions of the same car were only equiped with 85mph speedos. Don't ask me why. Something to do with gov. regulation or something.

Back in my youth my Dad brought a Datsun 240Z. I remember he let me use it to go to work (heehee, not very smart of him). I was tooling along with the Speedometer halfway up, since in my Nova that equated to about 60 mph. Well in the Datsun, that equaled to closer to 100 mph and a fine...

Eamon

Posted by: oldraven 17-Mar-2004, 04:41 PM
QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Mar 17 2004, 02:47 PM)
Geez Louise Peanut Butter!!! Don't make me learn anything else that will just mess with my tired brain!! I'm still trying to figure out how far a mile is.................... cry.gif no.gif nono.gif

It's called progress, me dear. wink.gif Feet and inches really is an outdated system. And learning metric is as easy as counting to ten. I'm fairly certain all of us can already do that. unsure.gif Decimal inches make more sense, but the truth is that system is rarely used. I've yet to come across it and every job I've had has been using feet and inches.

One really nice thing about metric, when you step on a scale, it's much nicer to see numbers in the double digits. wink.gif

Posted by: JaneyMae 17-Mar-2004, 05:06 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ Mar 17 2004, 04:41 PM)
It's called progress, me dear. wink.gif Feet and inches really is an outdated system. And learning metric is as easy as counting to ten. I'm fairly certain all of us can already do that. unsure.gif Decimal inches make more sense, but the truth is that system is rarely used. I've yet to come across it and every job I've had has been using feet and inches.

One really nice thing about metric, when you step on a scale, it's much nicer to see numbers in the single digits. wink.gif

Are you sure? unsure.gif I have a degree in English..............I don't do math. My puter figures my grades even fear.gif Tried to learn it once................what a fiasco cry.gif Seeing my weight in smaller digits would be good tongue.gif

I'll try..................where to start? fear.gif no.gif Not even sure how to do that sadwalk.gif

Posted by: MacEoghainn 17-Mar-2004, 05:19 PM
The US has been trying, but apparently not very hard, to go metric since I was a kid (and I'm rapidly approaching the big "50"). Does anybody remember when the Interstate speed limit signs were posted in miles-per-hour and kilometers-per-hour?

MacE

Posted by: JaneyMae 17-Mar-2004, 05:23 PM
I do not believe they are teaching much metric in the schools. I've seen no evidence of that anywho. cry.gif

Posted by: JaneyMae 17-Mar-2004, 05:24 PM
I remember the signs and just figured the college kids stole them for their dorm rooms tongue.gif They were here and then gone................

Posted by: JaneyMae 17-Mar-2004, 05:26 PM
How are the children to learn if they don't teach it in school? Maybe we need some educated Europeans to come over here and do some teaching in our classrooms! That's the ticket. clap.gif

Posted by: oldraven 17-Mar-2004, 06:17 PM
Janeymae, I'll mail you a meter stick, (our version of a yard stick). The hardest part is remembering all the greek prefixes that go before meter, gram, litre, etc.

Let's see.

milli, centi, deci, meter, deca (?), kilo, and after that I'm just lost. laugh.gif

Posted by: Richard Bercot 17-Mar-2004, 06:46 PM
QUOTE (Annabelle @ Mar 17 2004, 12:54 PM)
NO

Sis, you took the words right out of my mouth.

Posted by: Richard Bercot 17-Mar-2004, 06:49 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ Mar 17 2004, 07:17 PM)
Let's see.

milli, centi, deci, meter, deca (?), kilo, and after that I'm just lost. laugh.gif

What happened to Dohnor and Blitzen

Posted by: tsargent62 17-Mar-2004, 06:49 PM
Is it something that runs in the family? Both of you gave an emphatic "NO" with no explanation. So spill already!

Posted by: mingkee 17-Mar-2004, 06:49 PM
I say
America should connect with the rest of the world
do you think only America uses F when all other countries uses C is strange?

Posted by: Richard Bercot 17-Mar-2004, 06:51 PM
QUOTE (tsargent62 @ Mar 17 2004, 07:49 PM)
Is it something that runs in the family? Both of you gave an emphatic "NO" with no explanation. So spill already!

How about, I am just set in my ways. wink.gif

Posted by: kidclaymore 17-Mar-2004, 06:56 PM
QUOTE (Richard Bercot @ Mar 17 2004, 06:46 PM)
Sis, you took the words right out of my mouth.

I agree with both y'all, I have to use both standard and metric in law enforcement, when we get drug bust we have to measure them in metric everything else is standard. The real problem is, if we get small amounts its hard to come up with the right metric amount.

Posted by: Aaediwen 17-Mar-2004, 07:00 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ Mar 17 2004, 07:17 PM)
Janeymae, I'll mail you a meter stick, (our version of a yard stick). The hardest part is remembering all the greek prefixes that go before meter, gram, litre, etc.

Let's see.

milli, centi, deci, meter, deca (?), kilo, and after that I'm just lost. laugh.gif

pico, nano, milli, centi, deci, meter, deca, kilo, mega, giga, tera, exa...

can't 100 vouch for accuracy, and I think I'm missing at least one, but just to make you feel bad, that's from an American who went to school in the 80's and 90's

I wouldn't remember several of those were it not for computers and physics. Don't ask me conversions though. I know 30 cm to a foot and ~4ft to a meter. Some other common refrences I have in memory are 120F == 100C, 0C=32F.

I use metric for files or anything computer related, SI for distance and mass, and some of both (mostly SI) for volume. I still think metric for accelleration though (m/s/s) Fun fun.

I'm all for the US going metric. Although I seem to think that for temperatures everyone should go the other way around. Metric measurements, and deg F on temperature. just my -- two <B>CENTS</B>--

Posted by: tsargent62 17-Mar-2004, 07:01 PM
The most common units of measure:

<u>distance:</u> metres (m) = approx 39 in
kilometres (km) = 1000 m
millimetre = .001 m

There is roughly 1.6 km to a mile, or .6 miles to a kilometre.


<u>volume:</u> litre (l) (a bit bigger than a quart)
millilitre (ml) = .001 litre

There's about 3.78 litres in a gallon

<u>temperature:</u> still use degrees but use the Celsius or Centigrade scale (same thing) and is based on the freezing and boiling points of water

0 C = 32 F (freezing point of water)
100 C = 212 F (boiling point of water)


Just to give an idea of temperature as it relates to weather

4 C --> 40 F
20 C -- > 72 F
30 C --> 87 F

Hope this helps you old, stodgey, fearful types who hate change. You know who you are. wink.gif

Posted by: maisky 17-Mar-2004, 07:04 PM
and one quarter of a years is 91.25 days..... unsure.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 17-Mar-2004, 07:06 PM
QUOTE (maisky @ Mar 17 2004, 08:04 PM)
and one quarter of a years is 91.25 days..... unsure.gif

Dude, don't confuse the issue with facts!

Posted by: Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 17-Mar-2004, 07:35 PM
angel_not.gif Seems to me we are a dual-measurement society already. For example, beer is sold in bottles measured in ounces, while wine and whisky are sold in bottles using liter measurements. I have both toolsets in both systems, because I can't alwasy predict which one I'll need for a particular job. To me, the real question is how long do we want to continue with two measuring systems, because we don't want to join the rest of the world, which has mostly gone metric.
I can't help but wonder whether when the price of gasoline gets high enough, we'll go metric so gas can be priced per lliter, to disguise the true cost increase. angel_not.gif

Posted by: peckery 17-Mar-2004, 08:57 PM
DEAR GOD NO. MAKE IT GO AWAY. OUR SYSTEM IS MORE MONTY PYTHON THAN MONTY PYTHON. WE NEED THE COMIC RELIEF OF OUR WEIGHTS AND MEASURES.
Perhap if we built a large wooden badger....... king.gif :

Posted by: MDF3530 17-Mar-2004, 09:06 PM
As long as I can have my beer_mug.gif in pints, I don't care tongue.gif biggrin.gif .

Posted by: kelaorqu 17-Mar-2004, 09:59 PM
Being Canadian, I tend to be more biased but I think the metric system is a lot easier and would make things a lot simpler in the States! (although i don't know if they could handle taking something from another country... I'm surprised they even know the metric system exists) tongue.gif Just Kidding!

Posted by: High Plains Drifter 17-Mar-2004, 11:21 PM
What's with all you people stuck with the old system and not wanting to go metric.(I refuse to call it standard, metric is standard everywhere else.) Any doper stoned out of his head can tell you what a kilo is. Why are you supposedly sober sane folks out there fighting the true standard system?

Posted by: oldraven 18-Mar-2004, 12:04 AM
QUOTE (MDF3530 @ Mar 17 2004, 08:06 PM)
As long as I can have my beer_mug.gif in pints, I don't care tongue.gif biggrin.gif .

That's protected territory. laugh.gif You can still get pints up here, even schooners, if you find the right place. Oddly enough, Boston Pizza has something damn close.

Posted by: tsargent62 18-Mar-2004, 08:13 AM
The only thing that messes me up with metric distances is figuring out how long it's going to take to get somewhere. There's no direct corollary between time and distance. At least with Imperial measure you could base on travelling at 60 mph. I have to base it on quarter hours. If I'm really awake I can go on tenths of hours, but it is a bit more difficult.

That being said, it is a small inconvenience for the sake of using a superior system of measurement.

Posted by: maisky 18-Mar-2004, 09:50 AM
QUOTE (tsargent62 @ Mar 18 2004, 09:13 AM)
The only thing that messes me up with metric distances is figuring out how long it's going to take to get somewhere. There's no direct corollary between time and distance. At least with Imperial measure you could base on travelling at 60 mph. I have to base it on quarter hours. If I'm really awake I can go on tenths of hours, but it is a bit more difficult.

That being said, it is a small inconvenience for the sake of using a superior system of measurement.

What's so difficult about base 6 math? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 18-Mar-2004, 12:27 PM
QUOTE (maisky @ Mar 18 2004, 10:50 AM)
QUOTE (tsargent62 @ Mar 18 2004, 09:13 AM)
The only thing that messes me up with metric distances is figuring out how long it's going to take to get somewhere.  There's no direct corollary between time and distance.  At least with Imperial measure you could base on travelling at 60 mph.  I have to base it on quarter hours.  If I'm really awake I can go on tenths of hours, but it is a bit more difficult. 

That being said, it is a small inconvenience for the sake of using a superior system of measurement.

What's so difficult about base 6 math? rolleyes.gif

Kind of defeats the purpose, now doesn't it? Hmmm?

Posted by: Herrerano 18-Mar-2004, 02:24 PM
QUOTE
QUOTE (maisky @ Mar 18 2004, 10:50 AM)
QUOTE (tsargent62 @ Mar 18 2004, 09:13 AM)
The only thing that messes me up with metric distances is figuring out how long it's going to take to get somewhere.  There's no direct corollary between time and distance.  At least with Imperial measure you could base on travelling at 60 mph.  I have to base it on quarter hours.  If I'm really awake I can go on tenths of hours, but it is a bit more difficult. 

That being said, it is a small inconvenience for the sake of using a superior system of measurement. 


What's so difficult about base 6 math? 


Kind of defeats the purpose, now doesn't it? Hmmm?



I'm confused. What are you talking about here Todd? There is no direct corollary between any unit of distance and time. You have to make the corollary. For Example, The speed limit on the Interamerican Highway (except for populated areas) is 100 kph.

The town I work in is 250 kilometers from Panama City so if one could drive 100 kph for the entire trip then it would be a two and a half hour trip. In reality it takes about three to three and a half hours but that is because there are some pesky towns in the way and stuff.

Did I misunderstand something here? That wouldn't be hard to believe either since I have been running a fever since last night. Maybe I am delusional. blink.gif



Leo cool.gif





Posted by: tsargent62 18-Mar-2004, 02:33 PM
Leo, you used a very simple example. What if the place you want go is 287 km away. You know it's going to take close to 3 hours, sure. But how long <u>exactly</u>? It's a small point, I know. You know it's going to be at least 2.75 hours, but less than 3. That's what meant when I said I could guess using quarter hour increments.

Posted by: Herrerano 18-Mar-2004, 02:42 PM
Ok, I just don't see it as that different then speed in mph and the distance. Actually it would take 2.87 hours at 100 kph (2hours, 52 minutes, 12seconds).

However for me it would take about three hours or so cause I would have to make a rest stop. biggrin.gif

Leo cool.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 18-Mar-2004, 03:06 PM
It is different. If you're going 60 mph (hypothetically) and you have 287 miles to go, it'll take 287 minutes or 4 hours, 47 minutes. Now I go a lot faster than 60 mph. More like 75 - 80. So I know I can trim some off the time.

Posted by: Herrerano 18-Mar-2004, 03:08 PM
Must be my fever, gonna take some aspirin and think about this for awhile. tongue.gif

Leo cool.gif

Posted by: oldraven 18-Mar-2004, 04:02 PM
I think you're making it more complicated than need be. Dividing distance by speed works exactly the same for miles and mph as it does for km and kph. unsure.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 19-Mar-2004, 08:22 AM
QUOTE (oldraven @ Mar 18 2004, 05:02 PM)
I think you're making it more complicated than need be. Dividing distance by speed works exactly the same for miles and mph as it does for km and kph. unsure.gif

Who's making it complicated? Me or Leo? You must mean me. Guess I'm just not used to driving at speeds measured at kph. Maybe if I was I'd be more used to thinking about the time in a simpler way.

Posted by: oldraven 19-Mar-2004, 08:53 AM
Well, that's really the whole issue, isn't it. Breaking off from familiarity. smile.gif Once you become used to thinking in Kilometers, I don't think you'd have any more problems with figuring driving time than you used to.

Posted by: Elspeth 19-Mar-2004, 09:23 AM
I'm too old to change!! wheelchair.gif

It's funny when I was in elementary school over 30 years ago we were told we had to learn metric, that the US would be changing over in a few years. What happened? huh.gif

Posted by: Blue_Rogue 19-Mar-2004, 09:25 AM
Your right, Why haven't we already gone metric??
I think the biggest problem is that people try converting in their head and find it to confusing and complicated.
I've been in the automotive repair business for over 20 years, dealing with German cars, needless to say.... metric.

I say just change and use it, it's easier anyway...just don't try figuring out out what it would convert to, it doesn't matter.

Posted by: tsargent62 19-Mar-2004, 10:22 AM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Mar 19 2004, 10:23 AM)
I'm too old to change!!  wheelchair.gif

It's funny when I was in elementary school over 30 years ago we were told we had to learn metric, that the US would be changing over in a few years. What happened?  huh.gif

Yeah, being 2 months older than me might just make you too <b><u>old</b></u> to change.

Yeah, right! wink.gif

We were told the same thing in school. I think someone nailed earlier when they said the ppl in congress were of a generation that didn't want to switch and that when our generation got there things might change.

Oh, yeah! That was me! angel_not.gif

Posted by: Elspeth 19-Mar-2004, 06:30 PM
Yep! Those two months are a killer! laugh.gif Now if I were as young as Sis A, then it would be a snap.

Realistically, what dif would it be? We would get used to it, but I'm stubborn. It's an oldfashioned word thing. Meter, liter where's the romance in that? Now a yard or a foot - the mile. Those words have mystery, a vagueness about them. biggrin.gif Meters and liters are for accountants. We artists need ambiguity. lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 20-Mar-2004, 11:11 AM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Mar 19 2004, 07:30 PM)
Yep! Those two months are a killer! laugh.gif Now if I were as young as Sis A, then it would be a snap.

I thought you were the baby of the family. ???

Posted by: Aaediwen 20-Mar-2004, 11:36 AM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Mar 19 2004, 07:30 PM)
Yep! Those two months are a killer! laugh.gif Now if I were as young as Sis A, then it would be a snap.

Realistically, what dif would it be? We would get used to it, but I'm stubborn. It's an oldfashioned word thing. Meter, liter where's the romance in that? Now a yard or a foot - the mile. Those words have mystery, a vagueness about them. biggrin.gif Meters and liters are for accountants. We artists need ambiguity. lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif

Speak for yourself. I like mystery in words, but when it comes to numbers, I want them to be nailed down. That's what they're for aren't they? for precision? if not, then why am I running a 32 bit CPU instead of an 8 bit?

With words, lines, etc... one neds to be able to control how precise or vauge they are. imprecision can be a good thing there on occasion. But for measurements and numbers, give me the ability to represent 15.0372262190585104623 if I need to.

Posted by: Elspeth 21-Mar-2004, 04:29 PM
QUOTE (tsargent62 @ Mar 20 2004, 12:11 PM)
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Mar 19 2004, 07:30 PM)
Yep! Those two months are a killer!  laugh.gif  Now if I were as young as Sis A, then it would be a snap.

I thought you were the baby of the family. ???

Annabelle likes creative accounting!

And Aaediwen, I joking - mostly. My brother is the CPA, MBA, CFO, M-O-U-S-E of the family. I don't like to be too tied down to numbers. That's why I love the idea of a yard being the distance from the tip of your nose to the end of your fingers. But, alas, when paying for things, I want the full gallon or liter, or whatever.

Posted by: Pirata72 21-Mar-2004, 04:37 PM
Maybe phase it in eventually but not right now.

Posted by: maisky 21-Mar-2004, 08:57 PM
Annabelle is wonderful, so she can be any age she wants!!! biggrin.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 22-Mar-2004, 07:09 AM
QUOTE (Pirata72 @ Mar 21 2004, 05:37 PM)
Maybe phase it in eventually but not right now.

Why not? That's exactly why we haven't converted. It's been put off. Be brave! Make the jump! It's not so scary.

Posted by: Elspeth 22-Mar-2004, 08:00 AM
QUOTE (tsargent62 @ Mar 22 2004, 08:09 AM)
Why not? That's exactly why we haven't converted. It's been put off. Be brave! Make the jump! It's not so scary.

AAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! fear.gif fear.gif fear.gif

And yes, Maisky, Wonderful Sister A has the ability to choose her age. But it gets real annoying when she wants to be 12 and I have to put the training wheels back on my bike so I'm still her litte sister. biggrin.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 22-Mar-2004, 08:27 AM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Mar 22 2004, 09:00 AM)
AAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! fear.gif fear.gif fear.gif

And yes, Maisky, Wonderful Sister A has the ability to choose her age. But it gets real annoying when she wants to be 12 and I have to put the training wheels back on my bike so I'm still her litte sister. biggrin.gif

Coward!

Posted by: Elspeth 22-Mar-2004, 08:31 AM
Moi???????

Really, I don't care if we switch, it will just make me nostalgic.

But if we do, I want it to be all the way. Learn it once and be done. No converting. Having some things measured or sold one way and other things another.

Posted by: Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 22-Mar-2004, 08:56 AM
Training wheels are an impediment that just get in the way of any real leaening.
IMHO, we've all been using enough of the metric system long enough that completing the job would be less burdensome than having to constantly decide which system to use in a particular situation, which is where we are now.

Posted by: tsargent62 22-Mar-2004, 09:03 AM
Elspeth and MMD, I agree with both of you. Just cut the cord and move forward. A great example of why we should is the failure of the Mars Polar Lander mission a couple of years ago. NASA uses metric measurement and calculations. The contracter that built and ran the mission used US. The calculations for the landing were done in US and not converted to metric, so the parachute being used for the landing was released too early, causing the probe to crash. Stupid. Hundreds of millions of dollars down the toilet. A pile of twisted scrap metal on the surface of Mars.

The world would be much less confusing if we would just switch.

Posted by: Catriona 22-Mar-2004, 09:32 AM
The UK shilly-shallied about metric for 25 years! I have never really 'converted' - although I do convert 'new' recipes to old imperial measures! My family, however, cannot work in feet and inches or pounds and ounces... They say 'Oh mum, we don't do old-fashioned measurements' - and I have always replied 'and I don't do 'foreign'!!!.

However, for about a year shops have stopped offering dual pricings for weights - but I still ask for 'a pound' of something - the staff in the deli and supermarkets know exactly how to convert my request into kilos and grammes!

Posted by: Eamon 22-Mar-2004, 09:33 AM
Lord Snocknoggle is correct. NASA looked REALLY bad when they blew several million dollars on a conversion mistake. I don't know how difficult it would be to switch, but just dont mess with the Pint measure, unless your going to increase it...yum... beer_mug.gif

Eamon

Posted by: tsargent62 22-Mar-2004, 10:22 AM
QUOTE (Eamon @ Mar 22 2004, 10:33 AM)
Lord Snocknoggle is correct. NASA looked REALLY bad when they blew several million dollars on a conversion mistake. I don't know how difficult it would be to switch, but just dont mess with the Pint measure, unless your going to increase it...yum... beer_mug.gif

Eamon

Too right!

Posted by: tsargent62 22-Mar-2004, 10:23 AM
QUOTE (Catriona @ Mar 22 2004, 10:32 AM)
The UK shilly-shallied about metric for 25 years! I have never really 'converted' - although I do convert 'new' recipes to old imperial measures! My family, however, cannot work in feet and inches or pounds and ounces... They say 'Oh mum, we don't do old-fashioned measurements' - and I have always replied 'and I don't do 'foreign'!!!.

However, for about a year shops have stopped offering dual pricings for weights - but I still ask for 'a pound' of something - the staff in the deli and supermarkets know exactly how to convert my request into kilos and grammes!

Do still give weights in stone?

Posted by: Eamon 22-Mar-2004, 10:31 AM
Yeah, and I love that!!! I am a bit over 15 stone, which sounds a hell of a lot better thatn 210 pounds!!!

Eamon

Posted by: Catriona 22-Mar-2004, 12:36 PM
Nope - kilos!

But, as I've said, I still work in 'imperial'.... so it will probably be stones and lb to my dying day!

All bathroom scales have shown kilos/stones/lb for 20 years - I haven't looked to see whether the newer ones are kilos only...

As Eamonn said stones and pounds are the way we traditionally weighed heavier objects, like people!

Posted by: oldraven 22-Mar-2004, 01:19 PM
Yeah, I still go by lbs, as far as body weight goes. The same for everyone I know. No one I know says, 'I'm so many kilos'.

Posted by: Catriona 22-Mar-2004, 05:03 PM
My children's generation weigh themselves in Kilos - downright unpatriotic to the UK is what I call it! tongue.gif

Luckily, I never got to grips with the American habit of weighing people in pounds - it seemed SUCH a huge amount - i mean 8 stone 6 lb is my weight - by the time I do 8 x 14 + 9..... - I'm even beginning to believe it is easier to use kilos!

Posted by: Arianrhod 22-Mar-2004, 06:39 PM
The Scales at Penn National Race Track are still in Stone ...
I'd be willing to bet Churchhill Downs are too ..

Come to think of it,
when I used to race over timber..
it was in stone too...

Interesting, I had forgotten about that ...

In Service to the Dream,
Paula

Posted by: corrigan 23-Mar-2004, 07:29 AM
During my 5 years as a quality manager at a metal stamping plant, I found out why converting is such a big deal. For the toolmakers, the prima donnas of metal stamping, .358 of an inch is a visual physical reality. You and I might have to get a ruler to know how big that is, but they just know. And they know how each dimension works with the others in the 4 dimensional puzzle presented by metal stamping presses. I have a lot of respect for toolmakers.

On the other hand, they do need to convert. All automotive is metric so our engineer had to convert each print. Not only was it more work, but it was another place mistakes could be made. I had a devil of a time convincing him that he had to convert into the tolerance. Anyway, I voted 10 years so all those who actually work with dimensions can adjust.

Posted by: maisky 23-Mar-2004, 07:34 AM
QUOTE (Catriona @ Mar 22 2004, 06:03 PM)
My children's generation weigh themselves in Kilos - downright unpatriotic to the UK is what I call it! tongue.gif

Luckily, I never got to grips with the American habit of weighing people in pounds - it seemed SUCH a huge amount - i mean 8 stone 6 lb is my weight - by the time I do 8 x 14 + 9..... - I'm even beginning to believe it is easier to use kilos!

When you weigh in kilos instead of pounds, it makes your weight seem less... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Arianrhod 23-Mar-2004, 07:54 AM
Poor wee jockies... I really don't think those men want to weigh any less wink.gif

In Service to the Dream,
Paula

Posted by: Eamon 23-Mar-2004, 12:15 PM
QUOTE (Catriona @ Mar 22 2004, 06:03 PM)

Luckily, I never got to grips with the American habit of weighing people in pounds - it seemed SUCH a huge amount - i mean 8 stone 6 lb is my weight - by the time I do 8 x 14 + 9..... - I'm even beginning to believe it is easier to use kilos!

I have to use the weights and measures calculator that Aon posted a few months ago. Its great for figuring that stuff out.

Eamon

Posted by: tsargent62 23-Mar-2004, 12:17 PM
Speaking of Aon, where's she been lately? She hasn't made an appearance in must be at least 3 weeks. Anyone heard?

Posted by: Knightly Knight 27-Mar-2004, 11:41 PM
Annabelle I LOVE YOU and your resounding [SIZE=14]NO[SIZE=14]

Im trying to understand why i need to know how much soda(only thing i know is measured in liters) fit in my engine. Guess what. Soda does not work in combustion engines. ( well not for long)

Posted by: tsargent62 01-Apr-2004, 10:25 AM
Do you drink wine? Maybe some liquor? That's already measured in metric. A "fifth" of liquor or bottle of wine are each 750 milli-litres. I bet there's more metric in your life than you realize.

Posted by: maisky 01-Apr-2004, 10:43 AM
I rented a car while in Ireland in the mid 80s. When refueling I noted the price to be about the same as in the US, after converting Irish poinds into US dollars.......until I realized the price was per liter rather than per gallon. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Knightly Knight 01-Apr-2004, 09:13 PM
Tsargent No i dont drink alcohol of any kind, as a matter of fact I gave soda up this January. I dont want to change to metric for the following reason.

In my country, the good Ole USA, change means I get screwed.

Whats the first thing you think when you hear the followng statements?

1 We've improved our product ( less ingredients, more cost) or larger box, same ingredients. more air, more cost)

2 This change is good for the TEAM ( TEAM = TOGETHER EVERYONE ACHIEVES MORE FOR THE SUPERVISOR) you make the change and the boss gets the change.

3 This is a no tax increase bond issue ( well kinda, but your property taxes are raised to pay the bill, the property is worth more so the escrow goes up and so do the insurance because of the new value in the neighboorhood)

4 We have to change your benefits package ( Hmmm means lower wages or losing benefits which equal to dollars.

5 This change will help everybody ( NO change can help everybody)

6 you need to change your wardrobe ( means you need to please someone else again at your expense) Just change your friends!!

Tsargent If I sound cynical its because I am. I just want people to stay out of my pocket for awhile, like the rest of my life.

See my Avatar Tsargent? Although I love people, I really do. Somedays I have to live in this tin suit and keep away from someone who want me to pay for the changes of others. Ill vote for your metric system if you can PROVE to me it will put coinage IN my Pocket

Can we compromise and work on feeding the hungry instead?

One day i was watching two congressmen standing out side their office building, hands in their pockets just talking. I cried aloud because they had their hands in their pockets that day. Not mine



Posted by: Annabelle 01-Apr-2004, 11:24 PM
I'll go to an all Metric system when everyone changes to be left handed!
Ok?

Posted by: tsargent62 02-Apr-2004, 08:40 AM
Just because we go metric doesn't mean anyone's going to get screwed. Because of my pipe band activities, I've spent a lot of time in Canada, so I have many Canadian friends. The only ones I ever heard complaining about going metric were the old people, those who resist any kind of change in general.

Believe me, I understand the tax issue. In our school district we've passed 3 millage increases and a bond issue to build new schools and improve the existing ones. I only would vote for more $ coming out of my pocket after careful reflection.

Posted by: Knightly Knight 02-Apr-2004, 09:58 PM
QUOTE
Just because we go metric doesn't mean anyone's going to get screwed


Oh yeah? whos going to pay for manufacturing changes if we should go metric. Whos going to buy me a new set of metric tools? If you will pay for all these changes we can change tomorrow. And the "OLD PEOPLE WHO DONT WANT TO CHANGE" aren't just idiots who have never lived. They (I) have had experiences of their (my) own. They have seen good AND bad changes in their life. They dont need your hypothesis. Im telling you exactly why i don't want it. Ignore it if you like. I didnt want the country to change to the metric system when I was young, So dont call me old because I still dont want it. SEE ME 30 years ago.
Lets rephrase your quote "JUST because we go metric doesnt mean anyones NOT GONNA GET SCREWED!"

Posted by: JaneyMae 03-Apr-2004, 04:38 PM
NO NO NAY NEVER NAY NEVER NO MORE!!!!!! puke.gif

Posted by: Knightly Knight 03-Apr-2004, 07:44 PM
Im with you JaneyMae. Lets hold strong with this one.

Posted by: manxman 03-Apr-2004, 08:49 PM
Hi

Conversion is easy. 1 Pound = 1/2 Kilo approximately.

I live in Switzerland, and we still say "Pfund" in German to mean 1/2 kilo e.g. at the butchers.

The Romans actually invented the Mile - (Mille = 1000 strides ?)

Old German Pubs are often called "zur Pinte" (= Pint ). A pint is a bit more than 1/2 Litre.

So really the imperial english system is the original european system as well.

Regards

Posted by: tsargent62 04-Apr-2004, 05:44 AM
QUOTE (Knightly Knight @ Apr 2 2004, 10:58 PM)

Oh yeah? whos going to pay for manufacturing changes if we should go metric. Whos going to buy me a new set of metric tools? If you will pay for all these changes we can change tomorrow. And the "OLD PEOPLE WHO DONT WANT TO CHANGE" aren't just idiots who have never lived. They (I) have had experiences of their (my) own. They have seen good AND bad changes in their life. They dont need your hypothesis. Im telling you exactly why i don't want it. Ignore it if you like. I didnt want the country to change to the metric system when I was young, So dont call me old because I still dont want it. SEE ME 30 years ago.
Lets rephrase your quote "JUST because we go metric doesnt mean anyones NOT GONNA GET SCREWED!"

I didn't mean to imply you were old. Heck, you're only 6 years older than me. I can see through my "hypothesis" I struck a nerve. And you are certainly entitled to your opinion, sir. I'm merely engaging in spirited, friendly debate. Changing to metric would certainly come at a cost and there would be some "growing pains", so to speak. IMHO, it would be worth it.

Posted by: JaneyMae 04-Apr-2004, 10:40 AM
QUOTE (Knightly Knight @ Apr 3 2004, 07:44 PM)
Im with you JaneyMae. Lets hold strong with this one.

gunsmilie.gif We are taking our stand, Knight and A!!!! Not gonna do it! beer_mug.gif

Posted by: JaneyMae 04-Apr-2004, 10:43 AM
QUOTE (manxman @ Apr 3 2004, 08:49 PM)
Hi

Conversion is easy. 1 Pound = 1/2 Kilo approximately.

I live in Switzerland, and we still say "Pfund" in German to mean 1/2 kilo e.g. at the butchers.

The Romans actually invented the Mile - (Mille = 1000 strides ?)

Old German Pubs are often called "zur Pinte" (= Pint ). A pint is a bit more than 1/2 Litre.

So really the imperial english system is the original european system as well.

Regards

I have a degree in English, not math. I have no idea what you just said cry.gif The change isn't coming to my world! Let the world adapt to our system! Not interested in getting cheated because I can't figure the thing out. Maybe my grandkids can make the change tongue.gif

Posted by: greenldydragon 04-Apr-2004, 04:14 PM
NONONO....and....NO! fyou.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 05-Apr-2004, 08:56 AM
QUOTE (greenldydragon @ Apr 4 2004, 05:14 PM)
NONONO....and....NO! fyou.gif

If we went metric you'd only have to say "NO" twice. wink.gif tongue.gif

Posted by: peckery 05-Apr-2004, 09:12 AM
Doesn't a metric week have 10 days???? king.gif

Posted by: Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 05-Apr-2004, 09:20 AM
The conversion to metric is well along--the real question is how soon do we finish the job.
My wife and I were discussing this the other day. She pointed out that she noticed when working on making a dress with our daughter that our daughter knows the metric measurements much better than the traditional ones. Seems that in the school our kids went to, they were taught metric first, then the more traditional measures. So, it may be just a matter of time before the younger generation decides to finish the job for us.

Posted by: RavenWing 05-Apr-2004, 01:15 PM
I say no, and it is for purely selfish reasons. I have a very hard time judging distances and amounts anyway. For example, if you had a group of people in front of me, I would not be able to estimate how many there were. The number would be WAY off, like tens rather than hundreds.

If we change the system of measurement here, I would have that much more of a problem guessing or estimating measurements. I have a hard enough time figuring out how long a foot is, but if you thow meters, decimeters, dekameters and centimeters in there instead I would be completely lost.

I am going to be realistic and say it will probably happen, but I hope it doesn't.

Posted by: manxman 05-Apr-2004, 02:10 PM
QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Apr 4 2004, 11:43 AM)
QUOTE (manxman @ Apr 3 2004, 08:49 PM)
Hi

Conversion is easy.  1 Pound = 1/2 Kilo approximately.

I live in Switzerland, and we still say "Pfund" in German to mean 1/2 kilo e.g. at the butchers.

The Romans actually invented the Mile -  (Mille = 1000 strides ?) 

Old German Pubs are often called "zur Pinte" (= Pint ). A pint is a bit more than 1/2 Litre.

So really the imperial english system is the original european system as well.

Regards

I have a degree in English, not math. I have no idea what you just said cry.gif The change isn't coming to my world! Let the world adapt to our system! Not interested in getting cheated because I can't figure the thing out. Maybe my grandkids can make the change tongue.gif

My degree is in Physics, unfortunately not in English. I meant to say that our system (imperial) is much older and goes back to the romans. The problem was that various european lands couldn't standardise their variations. In fact isn't an English mile compared to an American mile slightly different ?

The metric system was chosen because it corresponds better to many scientific constants. This is fine if you're a scientist.

I learnt the metric system at school and uni because I studied Physics, but living in the UK at that time.(1972) Normal life in England was imperial. This wasn't a problem for me. I shopped in pounds, gallons and inches and did scientific calculations in metric units. I never got confused.

England is being forced to go metric today because of the political power of the European government in Brussels.

I think the calls for metric in the USA will probably have something to do with the strenghtening of your North American Trade Area. There will be lots of reasonable sounding arguments in favour of metric, but at the end of day it is all about making global trade easier, more profitable and the greed of the large corporations.

As usual the little man will probably lose out.


Posted by: greenldydragon 05-Apr-2004, 02:23 PM
I'm already confused as it is....metric is fine....I don't have anything against it...but I get enough of it in science. I understand inches and I know roughly (without looking at a yard stick) how long a foot is. I'd have to learn all over again how long a meter is...I know centimeter, because it is on most rulers. That is the only metric unit I'm comfortable with. Plus it isn't just the old folks, who are too ground into their ways, like groundhogs in their holes (no offense rolleyes.gif ) I am younger than a lot of people here...and I really don't want to go metric. I know enough that I won't get confused if someone needs help with distance and knows only metric...... well, maybe I would....but I guess I'm just used to the mixture of metric and imperial that we have at the moment....

Posted by: JaneyMae 05-Apr-2004, 03:48 PM
QUOTE (manxman @ Apr 5 2004, 02:10 PM)

My degree is in Physics, unfortunately not in English. I meant to say that our system (imperial) is much older and goes back to the romans. The problem was that various european lands couldn't standardise their variations. In fact isn't an English mile compared to an American mile slightly different ?


As usual the little man will probably lose out.

At least with a degree in physics you could understand it. I tried and lost. cry.gif

The little guy usually does lose -- why's that?

Posted by: JaneyMae 05-Apr-2004, 03:49 PM
QUOTE (peckery @ Apr 5 2004, 09:12 AM)
Doesn't a metric week have 10 days???? king.gif

I think you are right, Peckery!!! biggrin.gif That's the way I understand it anyway unsure.gif

Posted by: Knightly Knight 05-Apr-2004, 04:32 PM
Peckery, if a metric week has 10 days then i say NO. 8 days on and 2 weekend days off. rolleyes.gif

TSargeant Im sorry that I got testy. What on earth could be Good about going metric as far as Joe 6 pack goes?

I changed from a Ephiphone 12 string (300 dollars 29 years ago) to
a Martin DC-1e (1400 dollars 2 years) ago. I understand why i made the change
and it was done after much study. Heres where im going. Why does Knightly Knight want a metric system in his life? Let you answer not include because of the good of the group. How on earth can it help ME?

Posted by: JaneyMae 05-Apr-2004, 09:23 PM
Oh Knightly! I love a man who talks guitars!! WOW band.gif

Posted by: Knightly Knight 05-Apr-2004, 10:14 PM
Janeymae If talking guitars gets you fired up let me mention, tuners, picks, humidifires and amps. Hows that kind of talking?

Posted by: oldraven 06-Apr-2004, 09:07 AM
It'll help you, KK, by helping you understand them, and them understand you, without having to go through conversion in our heads. Everyone speaking the same language. Now that IS a lot easier for everyone, isn't it?

Posted by: JaneyMae 06-Apr-2004, 01:49 PM
QUOTE (Knightly Knight @ Apr 5 2004, 10:14 PM)
Janeymae If talking guitars gets you fired up let me mention, tuners, picks, humidifires and amps. Hows that kind of talking?

Oh! Be still my heart!!

Posted by: JaneyMae 06-Apr-2004, 01:50 PM
What? You mean the world doesn't all speak English? unsure.gif idiot.gif

The same language is good for those who can learn it. cry.gif

Posted by: manxman 06-Apr-2004, 01:57 PM
Ja, für mich wäre es auch viel einfacher, wenn Sie alle Deutsch sprechen würden.

Or if you follow logic, wouldn't spanish be the best choice of standard language for the USA ?

Posted by: JaneyMae 06-Apr-2004, 01:59 PM
Ah, buenos diaz senore! Dos Cerveza por favor cheers.gif

Posted by: oldraven 06-Apr-2004, 02:01 PM
Honestly, Janey. I've had to learn both systems. Metric was by far the easiest to figure out.


It may not have as much finesse as Imperial, but finesse has no place in the world of measurement. Simple and accurate is all that is needed.

Posted by: manxman 06-Apr-2004, 02:04 PM
Ah that's what's important. To order a beer in nearly every language going. When you can do that, you don't need anything else.

Santé, Prost, Cheers

Posted by: JaneyMae 06-Apr-2004, 03:06 PM
OldRaven, I'll just measure anything -- but beer biggrin.gif I'm old enough to be your mom. My son understands the metric system and my daughter learned it but lost it in her car wreck. Guess it landed by the side of the road..... Anyway, I'm having trouble learning how to run my new entertainment system. It sounds good tho.

ManxMan, how do you say more beer in German?

Posted by: Herrerano 06-Apr-2004, 03:10 PM
As far as the metric stuff, it is just not a big deal. Here the systems are mixed. Gasoline is sold in U.S. gallons, every thing else liquid is sold in liters. But it really doesn't make any difference. Since we are inside the system, there is never a need for most people to convert from one to another.

I do have to convert, but the conversions are easy to memorize and easy to do. It takes all of one week to become accustomed to it.

Interestingly beer here is ordered by the pint, but a bottle only has ten ounces. Those are just convenient words to use.

Quiero otra pinta por favor.

Leo cool.gif

Posted by: Herrerano 06-Apr-2004, 04:07 PM
Oh yeah, This is for the U.S. (sheesh) maybe my opinion doesn't count.

Sorry.

Dame otra pinta, no. Mejor traige dos.

Leo cool.gif

Posted by: Knightly Knight 06-Apr-2004, 06:39 PM
If we are changing to the metric system how about that lanuguage thing. You know Spanish and Chineese are the two upcoming languages. I can flip a coin and decide which to learn along with my Scottish Gaelic. How do you say 6 kilometers in Chineese?

Posted by: Annabelle 06-Apr-2004, 07:04 PM
Hey we should go Metric when everyone starts driving on the right side of the road. Have you noticed some country always has to go their seperate ways. Like us here in the USA haven't changed to the metric system when alot of the world has.
When they changed to the Euro over in Europe only a few countries didn't change.
So that's the way things are. Nothing is ever going to be 100% change about anything, but that's what keeps life interesting.

Posted by: tsargent62 06-Apr-2004, 08:15 PM
QUOTE (Knightly Knight @ Apr 6 2004, 07:39 PM)
If we are changing to the metric system how about that lanuguage thing. You know Spanish and Chineese are the two upcoming languages. I can flip a coin and decide which to learn along with my Scottish Gaelic. How do you say 6 kilometers in Chineese?

If you live in the US, Spanish would be the logical choice. 25% of the population is Latino.

Posted by: Annabelle 06-Apr-2004, 08:22 PM
Se, no abla espaniole!
Se, tu Scottish Gaelic!

Posted by: JaneyMae 06-Apr-2004, 08:54 PM
QUOTE (Herrerano @ Apr 6 2004, 04:07 PM)
Oh yeah, This is for the U.S. (sheesh) maybe my opinion doesn't count.

Sorry.

Dame otra pinta, no. Mejor traige dos.

Leo cool.gif

Of course your opinion counts!! biggrin.gif

Oh, does that mean two more pints? cheers.gif

Posted by: CeltWolf 06-Apr-2004, 10:41 PM
Eh, go into physics sometime. My physics classes are half in metric, half in ... uh, english, I guess. Isn't that SI? SI!=metric, correct?

ANyrate, it's half and half, and in my physics classes, they're mostly COMPLETELY separate, so it's like they don't measure the same things. Of course, I could gladly go to physics. It's just a lot more logical. Everything makes sense, none of this bizarre stuff w/ 5280 ft in a mile, 12inches in a foot, 2 cups in a pint, 2 pints in a quart, 4 quards in a gallon, 55 gallons in a barrel (I think), and then hogsheads and othe rmeasurements. That's CRAZY. Besides, we already use metric for measuring certain things, like energy. Kilowatt hours and micropharads. Anything electronics-related is in metric and metric along. You'll notice it's not the six-and-a-half foot wavelength, it's the two-meter wavelength. 144Mhz, roughly. Oh, look, another metric measurement.

Really, we're already half-way there... Just need to convert a few more measurements over, and we'll be ready to have our 4800km-wide country.

Posted by: JaneyMae 07-Apr-2004, 08:08 AM
I'm so impressed but have only half-a-clue ( idiot.gif ) about what you just said CeltWolf. I can do the 2 cups to a pint and a pints a pound the world around but other than that I'm just a gray-haired blonde trying to get by teaching the English language to a bunch of kids who could give a hoot about anything but ugly things. tongue.gif

Spanish would be a good language tho for us to learn and universalize in the US. Like Sarge said, our population is headed that way biggrin.gif

Posted by: Herrerano 07-Apr-2004, 09:13 AM
Bueno, vaminos con español.

¡OYE! ¡Mas cerveza! Y fria, bien fria.


Leo cool.gif

Posted by: JaneyMae 07-Apr-2004, 10:18 AM
Mas Cervesa, Por Favor! Donde la Banya?

Posted by: Herrerano 07-Apr-2004, 01:43 PM


QUOTE
Donde la Banya?


¿Como? No lo se que es eso. Pero el baño es la segunda puerta a la derecha. Recuerde, baja la tapa. biggrin.gif

Leo cool.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 07-Apr-2004, 01:54 PM
Ok, you 2. I haven't learned Spanish yet. I do plan on learning it after I'm finished with my BS in September. That way I can talk to my wife's Mexican relatives -- and you guys!

Posted by: manxman 07-Apr-2004, 02:33 PM
QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Apr 6 2004, 04:06 PM)


ManxMan, how do you say more beer in German?

Noch ein Bier bitte !

Klein oder Gross ? (big or small)

Ein Liter bitte ! ( a big beer = 1 Litre = 1 3/4 pints)


Posted by: greenldydragon 07-Apr-2004, 04:37 PM
Which language is this topic in? I could of sworn it was english, but maybe it is spanish... unsure.gif

Posted by: loialarent 07-Apr-2004, 04:49 PM
The Unites States of America should not go metric. But, if you look logically, it would be best. When why, you ask, should they not go metric? Plain and simple: we give up heritage. We lose some of being American if we do this. It may not seem like much, as Communists seem to be a bigger threat than changing road signs, but for Americans it is. A good deal of Americans are patriotic towards their distances. Besides, what could our Government know whats good for us? Americans don't have a say in Government policies anyways. Democracy is a lie.

Posted by: goaltndr 07-Apr-2004, 05:20 PM
I think the US Should convert to metric and I am an American. It doesn't make sense not to switch it is just lazy and stubborn not to. Start teaching both to kids now and phase it in if the older people are stuck in their ways. Like someone else said, the miltary uses it. Industries are using it. Everyone uses it but us. I think it is easier with everything based around measures of ten instead of 12 inches in a foot, etc.

I don't know it very well now, but I would be willing to learn. it isn't as if I was taught it and now i want everyone else to convert to the ways I know.


Posted by: JaneyMae 07-Apr-2004, 08:35 PM
QUOTE (Herrerano @ Apr 7 2004, 01:43 PM)

¿Como? No lo se que es eso. Pero el baño es la segunda puerta a la derecha. Recuerde, baja la tapa. biggrin.gif

Leo cool.gif

perdone senore -- Got my French and English and Spanish and useless brain mixed up. Just give me a beer!! and show me where the bathroom is! tongue.gif

Posted by: JaneyMae 07-Apr-2004, 08:37 PM
QUOTE (manxman @ Apr 7 2004, 02:33 PM)
QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Apr 6 2004, 04:06 PM)


ManxMan, how do you say more beer in German?

Noch ein Bier bitte !

Klein oder Gross ? (big or small)

Ein Liter bitte ! ( a big beer = 1 Litre = 1 3/4 pints)

danka mein heir!

Posted by: JaneyMae 07-Apr-2004, 08:39 PM
QUOTE (manxman @ Apr 7 2004, 02:33 PM)
QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Apr 6 2004, 04:06 PM)


ManxMan, how do you say more beer in German?

Noch ein Bier bitte !

Klein oder Gross ? (big or small)

Ein Liter bitte ! ( a big beer = 1 Litre = 1 3/4 pints)

danka mein froiden!

Posted by: maisky 08-Apr-2004, 06:47 AM
QUOTE (tsargent62 @ Apr 7 2004, 02:54 PM)
Ok, you 2. I haven't learned Spanish yet. I do plan on learning it after I'm finished with my BS in September. That way I can talk to my wife's Mexican relatives -- and you guys!

BS in September? You have been BSing all the time I've known you! You are very good at it. biggrin.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 08-Apr-2004, 06:56 AM
QUOTE (loialarent @ Apr 7 2004, 05:49 PM)
The Unites States of America should not go metric. But, if you look logically, it would be best. When why, you ask, should they not go metric? Plain and simple: we give up heritage. We lose some of being American if we do this. It may not seem like much, as Communists seem to be a bigger threat than changing road signs, but for Americans it is. A good deal of Americans are patriotic towards their distances. Besides, what could our Government know whats good for us? Americans don't have a say in Government policies anyways. Democracy is a lie.

What does the Imperial System have to do with American heritage? It is not an American system. It has its roots in Roman history. Besides, isn't one of the strengths of American society adaptability? Isn't that why we've flourished and grown the largest economy in the world?

I think the metric system would be a way to strengthen our global economic picture. I wonder how many businesses outside the US don't want to deal with us because they would have to convert to Imperial measures.

Communism a threat? Not so much anymore, IMHO. There is only 1 major country left with communist government: China. And they're growing more and more capitalistic. I bet they use the metric system there. wink.gif

Posted by: JaneyMae 08-Apr-2004, 10:20 AM
QUOTE (loialarent @ Apr 7 2004, 04:49 PM)
Democracy is a lie.

Just curious, and not meaning to ruffle any feathers, but if democracy is a lie, why are you living in the USA? Why not move to Iraq? wink.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 08-Apr-2004, 10:23 AM
QUOTE
Democracy is a lie.
QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Apr 8 2004, 11:20 AM)
Just curious, and not meaning to ruffle any feathers, but if democracy is a lie, why are you living in the USA? Why not move to Iraq? wink.gif

Uh, oh! I sense a libertarian coming on!

Posted by: JaneyMae 08-Apr-2004, 10:25 AM
QUOTE (tsargent62 @ Apr 7 2004, 01:54 PM)
Ok, you 2. I haven't learned Spanish yet. I do plan on learning it after I'm finished with my BS in September. That way I can talk to my wife's Mexican relatives -- and you guys!

You must then be the best 'BSer' in your college! You do a wonderful job here lol.gif

Seriously, congrats on your work! And it is truly a lot of work! What is the degree in besides entertainment and BS?

More Guiness, barkeep!!! cheers.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 08-Apr-2004, 10:29 AM
It's in Information Technology. In other words, computer stuff, geek work, etc. nerd.gif

Keep the Guiness flowing. I'm off for the next 4 days. WOOHOO! beer.gif

Posted by: JaneyMae 08-Apr-2004, 10:35 AM
Computer "geeks" are so awsome! Really! Wish I could understand all that. I'm way too right brained to figure anything mathmatical out -- and too old biggrin.gif -- I'm impressed!

4 days off? I have to work. Keep the Guiness flowing anyway and I'll play catch-up as I can! WooHoo! It's a party! cheers.gif

Posted by: tsargent62 23-Apr-2004, 05:14 PM
Here's something for you "old farts" who don't want to update to the metric system.

http://www.slonet.org/~rloomis/metric2.wav

Posted by: Knightly Knight 24-Apr-2004, 01:37 PM
Well Tsargeant, I couldnt run that wav file for some reason. I guess I need to buy some more propane for this old compter. Lol

what is the gist of the file?

by the way its raining in St.Louis does it rain faster in CMs?

Posted by: tsargent62 24-Apr-2004, 07:44 PM
It was Grandpa Simpson ranting about the metric system. I thought someone like you might identify with it. wink.gif

Posted by: Derfel 25-Apr-2004, 03:30 PM
QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Apr 7 2004, 09:39 PM)
QUOTE (manxman @ Apr 7 2004, 02:33 PM)
QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Apr 6 2004, 04:06 PM)


ManxMan, how do you say more beer in German?

Noch ein Bier bitte !

Klein oder Gross ? (big or small)

Ein Liter bitte ! ( a big beer = 1 Litre = 1 3/4 pints)

danka mein froiden!

Should I restart my german lessons again? biggrin.gif

Sláinte! beer_mug.gif

Derfel

Posted by: Derfel 25-Apr-2004, 03:35 PM
I am not shure if they should go metric....
It would make some things easyer.
By the way, a lot of people in Germany even use old
units of measure like pond and dozen....
(I am one of them! laugh.gif ) But nobody use miles or inches
for distances.....

Sláinte! beer_mug.gif

Derfel

Posted by: Derfel 25-Apr-2004, 03:42 PM
QUOTE (Derfel @ Apr 25 2004, 04:35 PM)
I am not shure if they should go metric....
It would make some things easyer.
By the way, a lot of people in Germany even use old
units of measure like pond and dozen....
(I am one of them! laugh.gif ) But nobody use miles or inches
for distances.....

Sláinte! beer_mug.gif

Derfel

Oh, I forgot.... in Ireland they use both, miles and kilometers. On signposts they have both, or they have one with "miles" and one with "kilometers". biggrin.gif

Sláinte! beer_mug.gif

Derfel

Posted by: Knightly Knight 25-Apr-2004, 08:16 PM
How about a system which could tell you how many beers to get to a particular place?

such as

St.Louis to Kansas City 300 miles or 12 beers
would this worK?

Posted by: Ceciliastar1 28-Sep-2004, 10:59 AM
Please don't change it on me!!! I'm stupid as is!!! I can't hardly figure out whatever system we use now. Metric is going to kill me!!! ARGH!!! NO NO NO NO!!!!

Haha!!! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: oldraven 28-Sep-2004, 11:17 AM
QUOTE (Ceciliastar1 @ 28-Sep-2004, 09:59 AM)
Please don't change it on me!!! I'm stupid as is!!! I can't hardly figure out whatever system we use now. Metric is going to kill me!!! ARGH!!! NO NO NO NO!!!!

Haha!!! rolleyes.gif

Wow! This thread's back from the depths of the forgotten realms. laugh.gif

As I must have said a thousand times. Nothing is easier to figure out than counting to ten. wink.gif

Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 28-Sep-2004, 01:10 PM
QUOTE (Ceciliastar1 @ 28-Sep-2004, 12:59 PM)
Please don't change it on me!!! I'm stupid as is!!! I can't hardly figure out whatever system we use now. Metric is going to kill me!!! ARGH!!! NO NO NO NO!!!!

Haha!!! rolleyes.gif

If we had changed forty years ago (when I was first aware of folks trying to change the system), everyone would be used to it by now and Ceciliastar would never have known anything else. But the good ole US of A will probably never change and this from a country that had the first metric monetary system.

Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 28-Sep-2004, 01:12 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 28-Sep-2004, 01:17 PM)

As I must have said a thousand times. Nothing is easier to figure out than counting to ten. wink.gif

Unless you go binary and only have to count to two. Of course I knew a blonde that had to take off her blouse to do that. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Monarch's Own 28-Sep-2004, 01:30 PM
Since I grew up with the metric system it's no problem for me at all. I actually like the metric better because everything is in 10 , 100 or 1000 steps.

So much easier. not those uneven numbers. For me go ahead better today than tomorrow.

You can't even buy eggs in a dozen - only in 10 at least in Germany. LOL

and our pounds are an even 500 gr and not like the american 454 gr. or so.

So much easier. Everything in round numbers LOL

biggrin.gif

but every country needs to choose what it's best for their needs.

Posted by: susieq76 28-Sep-2004, 01:44 PM
I agree with most of the posters. Although, as someone who is very bad in math, the transition would be scary it is scarier that my European friends can convert things and I can't. So I actually don't even know our system....smile.gif But it makes much more sense that the world all be under the same systems. And I think Mingkee is right on the temperature issue - to me, F actually makes more sense than C. But that is just my humble opinion. My boss has this quote she gave me that's great:

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those that understand binary, and everyone else."

Hee hee

Posted by: oldraven 28-Sep-2004, 02:29 PM
Well, F and C are pretty much identical, just at different ratios. They are both perfectly linear, it's just 0 & 100 are closer together in F, and at different temps. The reason C makes sense to me is I can see how they derived it. 0 = the freezing point of water, 100 = the boiling point. How did they derive, F? Does anyone know? Really, does ANYONE know?

Posted by: Gordon 28-Sep-2004, 03:13 PM
I believe we should use the metric system although, as a cook, I'd of course have to relearn everything since all recipes in the US are in our measurements and all conversions, etc. also. We've grown so used to 'our' way of doing things in the states, that we don't much think about it until we are faced with converting metrics to a US standard equivalent. Multiply by this, Divide by that. It would be so much easier to just adopt and be done with it.
Teaching would also be streamlined if we forget the US standard and go straight to metric except for those that will need to be taught to convert of course. They can look at it as 'We can do that' in the case of converting.

Gordon

Posted by: talleyrand 28-Sep-2004, 03:23 PM
For standard temperatures that humans deal with, C to F and back again is easy. F -> C Subtract 30 and divide by 2. C -> F multiply by 2 and add 30. It looses its precision when you start talking about cooking as such but for talking about the weather, it'll make you look like you think natively in the other system.

As an ex-engineering student, it seems like the first weeks of every course covered converting from english units to their SI equivalents and back again. But then again if we did away with it, it'd eliminate a portion of my Trivial Pursuit winning. How many inches are in a kilometer? Stones in a pound?

Posted by: oldraven 28-Sep-2004, 03:33 PM
What's messed up is, the general populous here in Canada still use '&" for our hight, and lbs for our weight. Oh, and all of our Stoves (ranges) use F. 'Splain dat a me.

Posted by: Dugadelphia 28-Sep-2004, 03:48 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 28-Sep-2004, 12:29 PM)
Well, F and C are pretty much identical, just at different ratios. They are both perfectly linear, it's just 0 & 100 are closer together in F, and at different temps. The reason C makes sense to me is I can see how they derived it. 0 = the freezing point of water, 100 = the boiling point. How did they derive, F? Does anyone know? Really, does ANYONE know?



Daniel Fahrenheit established three fixed points on his thermometer. Zero degrees was the temperature of an ice, water and salt mixture. When he omitted salt from the slurry, he reached his second fixed point when the water-ice combination stabilized at "the thirty-second degree." His third fixed point was "found as the ninety-sixth degree and the spirit expands to this degree when the thermometer is held in the mouth or under the armpit of a living man in good health."

After Fahrenheit died in 1736, scientists calibrated his model of thermometer using 212 degrees, the temperature at which water boils, as the upper fixed point. When the Fahrenheit thermometer was recalibrated, normal human body temperature registered 98.6 rather than 96.

Posted by: Herrerano 28-Sep-2004, 04:19 PM
Panama uses an odd mix of both. Distances are in Kilometers, temperatures are in Celsius, beer is in ounces (volume) and gasoline is sold in U.S. Gallons. A persons wt. and ht are measured in kilogram and meters, but food may be in ounces and pounds or grams and kilograms. It doesn't seem to make much difference, in day to day living no one really cares and in cooking most measurements are relative to each other and therefore arbitrary if you stick to whatever base you are using.

My work is kinda sorta scientific in nature, but oddly, we use both. When you have to use them you learn them. For anything difficult or that is used less often I wrote out a trusty excel spreadsheet to do my conversions. tongue.gif And the things that are really important are almost always figured first in relative numbers (ie: molecular wts. and combining wts. and stuff) so there it makes no difference at all until we get to the point where we have to decide how much we want to make.

In short, both systems have their pluses, and if you have to use them, you learn them or starve. laugh.gif

Leo

Posted by: Keltic 28-Sep-2004, 09:19 PM
There are pros and cons to both systems:

Under the metric system, you can drive faster - 100 instead of 60. The only problem is that everything moves further apart. Even though I drive faster, it still takes the same amount of time to get to Toronto.

In Canada, there isn't as much of an obesity problem since the metric system came in to effect. In Canada, a person who weighs 113 comes in at a hefty 250 in the U.S.

Anyways, the list goes on...

Posted by: Aragorn 29-Sep-2004, 09:23 AM
I would say NO, and the reason is why??? Why should we change just to appease the rest of the world?? Yeah, I know it sounds a bit arrogant but just who started the measurement thing anyhow? This is a question because I really don't know. Is metric any better then Standard measurement? Is it any more accurate? I mean what would be our motivation to change? Just because the rest of the world is doing it is not justification enough. Hey, if the rest of the world jumps off the earth does not mean the US should too. The rest of the world can keep the metric system, I see no benefit.

just my opinion.

Posted by: oldraven 29-Sep-2004, 10:29 AM
Wow. That sounded astoundingly stubborn, but whatever. Something I noticed a lot with the American view. 'We shouldn't change, because we don't have to. Wether it makes good sense is irrelevant'. Having the right to keep an outdated system doesn't mean it's the correct choice. (realise that I'm not trying to stir up .... stuff. This topic effects my daily life, far beyond that of most, so I'm strongly opinionated when it comes to this topic.)

The benefits of Metric are many. For one, yes, the rest of the world has switched. The US staying with standard measurement holds the rest of us back, especially to the north.

Constant converting is such a pain, and it directly effects my life and job. Not just converting between systems, but within itself. We all count in multiples of ten, but the outdated system of counting to twelve, simply to have to break it up into tens again, is foolery. A vicious circle. Fractions? Why? Decimals are more accurate, (ask any machinist), and are linear. 1.7656 will always be 1.7656, from the designers head to the fabricators hand. 1 49/64 just complicates it by forcing you to convert it to decimal in order to make the measurement usable, or put it in linear perspective. Or even converting to the nearest common fraction.

Now, when it comes to the general public, it doesn't have much bearing, which I realise is where most who are pro standard are coming from. But the truth is, only about 10% of the time are those people using standards of measurement. Industry and its proffesionals are the ones using measurement day in and day out, 24/7. If you want to say "I'm 5'-9", and 195lbs." then by all means go ahead. That's the way I do it. But when it comes to work, at any level of engineering and fabrication, metric is the system that adds up. Literally.

So, if the public doesn't like the idea of a switch to metric, fine. That doesn't force them to use the system. But I strongly believe that industrially, the nation should catch up and stop speaking Latin in an English world.

Posted by: Avonlea22 29-Sep-2004, 08:59 PM
I like your reasonin, OR.

I feel the U.S. should go metric. To me, it just makes sense. The U.S. is supposedly a world leader, yet we use a system that's outdated and confusing to many. Go metric, I say!

Posted by: Gordon 01-Oct-2004, 04:13 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 29-Sep-2004, 11:29 AM)
Wow. That sounded astoundingly stubborn, but whatever. Something I noticed a lot with the American view. 'We shouldn't change, because we don't have to. Wether it makes good sense is irrelevant'. Having the right to keep an outdated system doesn't mean it's the correct choice. (realise that I'm not trying to stir up .... stuff. This topic effects my daily life, far beyond that of most, so I'm strongly opinionated when it comes to this topic.)

The benefits of Metric are many. For one, yes, the rest of the world has switched. The US staying with standard measurement holds the rest of us back, especially to the north.

Constant converting is such a pain, and it directly effects my life and job. Not just converting between systems, but within itself. We all count in multiples of ten, but the outdated system of counting to twelve, simply to have to break it up into tens again, is foolery. A vicious circle. Fractions? Why? Decimals are more accurate, (ask any machinist), and are linear. 1.7656 will always be 1.7656, from the designers head to the fabricators hand. 1 49/64 just complicates it by forcing you to convert it to decimal in order to make the measurement usable, or put it in linear perspective. Or even converting to the nearest common fraction.

Now, when it comes to the general public, it doesn't have much bearing, which I realise is where most who are pro standard are coming from. But the truth is, only about 10% of the time are those people using standards of measurement. Industry and its proffesionals are the ones using measurement day in and day out, 24/7. If you want to say "I'm 5'-9", and 195lbs." then by all means go ahead. That's the way I do it. But when it comes to work, at any level of engineering and fabrication, metric is the system that adds up. Literally.

So, if the public doesn't like the idea of a switch to metric, fine. That doesn't force them to use the system. But I strongly believe that industrially, the nation should catch up and stop speaking Latin in an English world.

Total agreement here. It's a pain in the backside when you have to convert, especially when the conversions themselves can tend to be questionable. For example, in school they tell us 28.30 grams equals one ounce but if you use that to figure out a measurement in baking, the baked goods are spoiled since an ounce is actually 28.3495 grams. Baking is a precise science in itself. One missed measurement will throw off everything. And, they can't seem to agree on ounces with caviar either since they label a 30 gram container as 1 U.S. ounce....Go figure disgust.gif

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