Celtic Christianity Debate.

any way to answer a previous qeustion.


scotland church attnedance is 6 % roughly compared with 30 % in europe and 65 % in america.

in fact a lot of old scottish churches in scotland are being dismantled brick by brick and shipped to japan where they are used for weddings etc.

you cannot trust scottish census and polls to estimate the religious belifs of its people as to ask someone if they are catholic or protestant is not to ask them what religion they are but to ask where their political loyalties lie ie. to ireland or the crown.

many athiests and non religious folk in scotland will put down catholic or protestant on their census forms etc as an act of defiance against eire or the crown and also to establish loyalties to the crown or eire.

the pope himself blasted scotland as a pagan country a few years ago and you will easily find resources for that statement on the internet.

scotland is a non religious country and religion no longer plays a part in the life of the average scot.

and i can see many advantages to this.

P.S DELETING THREADS BECAUSE YOUR A FASCIST NO LONGER MEANS THAT THE SUBJECT IN QEUSTION CEASES TO BE FACT.

by doing this you are portraying christians as folk who blindly believe with out the capacity to debate reasoning behind your beliefs, and that shows how absolutly ignorant you are.

Wait a minute, wait. I don't think we know what happened to the thread, I just asked because I couldn't find it and I wanted to add something. It started out as a source of info for someone who needed it for a course she's leading. Heaven knows there's been a lot hairier stuff in this forum and the political forum that stands without having been "disappeared." I am sure there must be some good explanation.

Meanwhile I find your comments interesting, especially the relative linking of religious and political affiliation, which historically makes a lot of sense, and I will take the opportunity you suggest of looking around on the web to find out more about it.

It appears that the originator of this topic deleted it and not the moderating staff... that is what seems evident at this time.

If it is a different story I will let you know..

Be carefull of the stones you throw!

All right then -- I think I can remember how I set up my question near the end of that thread, suggesting that maybe it needs a place of its own. If anything, this makes it clearer that feelings run very high about the whole issue.

It seems that the "hybridization" (I think that was the word?) of the old celtic religious practice and cultural way of life with the first missionizing of Ireland (around 700 CE, am I right?) can be seen in two very different ways. Either one can understand it as a dilution and ultimate loss of a vital heritage -- and feel indignation and sorrow for that, even at this late date -- or one can celebrate it as a blending of elements that have been very hardy combined like that, and as a persistent source of spiritual renewal -- even at this late date.

Neither of these ideas is new to this whole CR site, they've come up separately before. But I'd be interested in seeing it talked about directly here. One of the things about this site that makes it fantastic and almost unique is that celtic music draws people who love it, from very different spiritual orientations (committed Christians, and people equally committed to forms of pre-Christian old practices) and there's also a spiritual claim being made on the culture that makes this music, from both directions.

I hope it doesn't make anyone uncomfortable, it's not my intention at all.

Shooting one's mouth off without knowing what the hell you are talking about is the FASTEST way to show how absolutely ignorant you are! And you seem to do a LOT of it!

Let none of us throw stones please!

Hey Tea, can we have a reasonable conversation?

A lot of times, I find myself stereotyped as a Christian. I don't find that in the Highlander community. I would hope that people would look at me as an individual and not assume what I am like based on others who call themselves Christians.

Therefore, I'm going to do atheists a favor. I strongly disagree with atheism. However, I am going to assume that not all atheists behave the way you have chosen to here. I am convinced I can have strong disagreements without resorting to name calling, which I pretty well gave up in junior high.

Give you an example. Dogshirt and I disagree a lot on these forums. Guess what? We don't call each other names. What a concept! He and I are miles apart on the subject of Israel. We have disagreed on this forum, and yet Dog and I seem to have no problems exchanging "hellos" on the game forum. He and I have never met personally, but I can tell you this. We could probably do lunch together and have a great time.

I, for one, am not attacking you personally. I do not accept the tenets of atheism. But I will fight to the death for your right to express your views.

Sorry the thread was deleted. I don't know who did it or why. I have serious doubts that he/she is a fascist.

How about putting the name calling to rest? If you are trying to be a good advertisement for atheism, you're just not going to do to well in the recruiting department at this rate.

And thanks for answering my question. Have a great day!

......... no problem

If the air feels clearer now and no one minds -- and this is only a suggestion, I'm not trying to play Polly Peacenik or anything -- maybe we could go to PMs if there's anything else to air out? Meanwhile --

I'd like to ask a question, because this really fascinates me. When did this start with churches being dismantled and shipped to Japan? I tried googling it several ways, and I'm not finding anything, but I'd really like to know what the impetus for that was. I'm assuming Japanese tourists came to Scotland and were rightly charmed by the buildings, but it's an odd idea to think about having them moved to Japan. I would think they would be valuable cultural artifacts (including for Scotland's own tourist trade) even if the majority of people were no longer interested in using them for their original purpose.

........ ill try and find articles for you stor about this subject and ill ask friends (cant remember where i came across this information).
indeed churches are of cultural value in scotland but a lot (not all) are hardly of historical value as most scots buildings are historic,
let me try and explain that better, my house for instance is 17 th century as are most in the southside, west end and central glasgow i assume because wherever you are in scotland especially edinburgh and the highlands history is everywhere so i can only conclude that to be reason enough for them to do that to 18 -19th century churches ( 200 odd years isnt considered old in scotland).
I dont actually agree with exporting churches myself but the ones in qeustion where apprently delapedated and the council where unable to find funds to have them restored and maintained

So, in regards to our previous discussion, your thought that the majority of Scots are atheists is based on your personal observations, not any hard verifiable data? Once again, just looking for clarification. I am not saying you are wrong. I'm just one of those guys that likes to be able to verify things. The church attendance figure definitely aids your contention, but do you have any reliable data other than your opinion?

BTW, never been to Scotland, but would love to make the trip someday. I have friends who live in Dingwall.

Take care!

no haynes there is no specific data to specify the religious orientation of scots any polls and census surveys will be completely inaccurate.
From my personal experiance i can tell you thats scots are mainly athiests and many god followers are spiritual not religious ie. they may believe in god but are not practising christians.

I myself have only known a handful of christians throught my life in scotland.
I have never had any friends or family that have been christians, and every one i know in my life have been athiests.
when ever the topic of religion has come up it was always a political debate not a religious one, and myself and my friends have never been baptised or christianed.
I think that reflects the majority of scots in scotland.

That's fair enough. Thanks for following up.