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> Scotland's Birth Certificate, The fight to bring it Home
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Harlot 
Posted: 18-Nov-2008, 06:12 PM
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I read this paper every morning and this very interesting and I had to post this. I do hope they can get it back where it rightfully belongs:


Gone but not forgotten fight begins to bring home Scotland's 'birth certificate'



Date: 17 November 2008
By Craig Brown
IT IS described as the "birth certificate of Scotland" and contains the earliest surviving record of the country's existence. But it is held in France.

Now a campaign has been launched to have the 1,000-year-old Chronicles of the Kings of Alba to be returned to Scotland.

The unique document is a list of the 12 kings of the House of Alpin Scotland's first royal family. The priceless documentADVERTISEMENTalso charts a particularly bloody decade of Scotland's history from the reign of Kenneth MacAlpin to Kenneth II, who died in 995, when coups and assassinations were almost every-day occurrences.

Despite the little-known document's historical importance, it has been held since the 17th century in the national library of France the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris as part of the Poppleton Manuscript, a collection of medieval texts.

The manuscript contains the very first mention of the country Albanium the Latinised version of the Gaelic name for Scotland. Before this, the country had been a loose collection of territories, the two major forces being the Picts and the Gaels.

The rare text explains how Scotland was unified under the Alpin family.

The chronicle is considered a vital source for the period it covers, written in Hiberno-Latin by monks during the early 11th century, shortly after the reign of Kenneth II ended.

Now independent MSP Margo MacDonald, and archaeologist and presenter of the BBC's The History of Scotland Neil Oliver, are adding their voices to demands to have the document returned to coincide with next year's Homecoming Scotland 2009.

Ms MacDonald will raise a motion in the Scottish Parliament asking for the document to be returned.

She said: "It is a hugely important document and I'd like to see it returned to Scotland. I'll be raising a motion in parliament to ask for the document to be returned as a loan, which I understand would be the first time it has been on these shores for hundreds of years."

Mr Oliver, whose BBC series The History of Scotland has sparked fresh interest in the manuscript, said: "Holding this important document in my hands was really thrilling. It's the birth certificate of Scotland and yet it is held in France. It was part of a bundle of documents taken over in the 17th century, when no-one really knew what they were worth historically.

"It would be terrific if it could at least visit Scotland to let everyone have the chance to see it."

Translations of the text reveal a pithy and bloody account of each of the kings and their achievements, focusing on the violent struggles they faced.

Of Kenneth I it says: "He attacked Saxonia six times; and he burnt down Dunbar and captured Melrose," but that he died of a "tumour" in the palace of Forteviot. The authors also exhibit an intolerance for what was considered failure. Of King Aed, who ruled from 877 to 878, it was written: "The shortness of his rule has left nothing memorable to history; but he was killed in the town of Nrurim."

The Scottish Government welcomed the call for the return of the document.

A spokeswoman said: "We recognise the interest The History of Scotland has generated in the manuscript and its intriguing part in the narrative of our nation's history.

"We would be keen to explore with the Bibliotheque Nationale the importance of the manuscript, and how it might play a part in celebrating our culture and heritage as part of the Year of Homecoming."

The move comes after the Scottish Government tried so far without success to have the Lewis Chessmen returned to Scotland from the British Museum in London. The 78 chess pieces carved from walrus ivory were found in a sandbank on a beach of Uig Bay on the Isle of Lewis in 1831 and bought by the British Museum the same year.

While they have failed to have them returned, they were the centrepiece of an exhibition in Lewis in 1994.

The Celtic League, an organisation that campaigns for the return of artefacts to Celtic nations, warned any attempts to have the manuscript returned could prove difficult.

Its general secretary, Cornishman Rhisiart Tal-e-bot, said: "It's exceedingly difficult to repatriate artefacts from one country to another. In many instances, the host institutions say the artefacts are not fit for travel or there is no place suitable to store them if they are moved."

The Bibliotheque Nationale declined to comment


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stoirmeil 
Posted: 18-Nov-2008, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (Harlot @ 18-Nov-2008, 06:12 PM)
The Celtic League, an organisation that campaigns for the return of artefacts to Celtic nations, warned any attempts to have the manuscript returned could prove difficult.

Its general secretary, Cornishman Rhisiart Tal-e-bot, said: "It's exceedingly difficult to repatriate artefacts from one country to another. In many instances, the host institutions say the artefacts are not fit for travel or there is no place suitable to store them if they are moved."

The Bibliotheque Nationale declined to comment

Generally, complete BS -- "host" (=captor) countries always say this. If the document is fit to be viewed for research, it can be moved, be the care in moving it ever so exquisite. And I don't know how anyone can doubt that the best possible location, preservation techniques and viewing conditions will be prepared to receive the document.

How much of this is due to the fact that Scotland isn't seen by the French as its own national entity? dry.gif

Want to have a really stirring experience? Go stand next to an old Greek and whisper "Elgin Marbles" in his ear. Then be prepared to jump wide back and give him room to swing.
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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 19-Nov-2008, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 18-Nov-2008, 08:26 PM)
QUOTE (Harlot @ 18-Nov-2008, 06:12 PM)
The Celtic League, an organisation that campaigns for the return of artefacts to Celtic nations, warned any attempts to have the manuscript returned could prove difficult.

Its general secretary, Cornishman Rhisiart Tal-e-bot, said: "It's exceedingly difficult to repatriate artefacts from one country to another. In many instances, the host institutions say the artefacts are not fit for travel or there is no place suitable to store them if they are moved."

The Bibliotheque Nationale declined to comment

Generally, complete BS -- "host" (=captor) countries always say this. If the document is fit to be viewed for research, it can be moved, be the care in moving it ever so exquisite. And I don't know how anyone can doubt that the best possible location, preservation techniques and viewing conditions will be prepared to receive the document.

How much of this is due to the fact that Scotland isn't seen by the French as its own national entity? dry.gif

Want to have a really stirring experience? Go stand next to an old Greek and whisper "Elgin Marbles" in his ear. Then be prepared to jump wide back and give him room to swing.

I agree with what your saying Stoirmeil,

Countries that own documents or artefacts of any kind that belongs to other countries should be returned to the real owner when asked.

It is complete BS indeed this kind of statement from greedy bureaucrats that the only purpose in mind really has nothing to do with the statements they tell to people about "preservation" and all, it's money signs....

I think that any country that request ancient artefacts or documents belonging to their own history should be returned without questions.No country should have to beg or ask to have anything that belongs to them in the first place as a loan.

Interesting article Harlot thanks for sharing.

LOA...just my two cents. smile.gif


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Harlot 
Posted: 19-Nov-2008, 07:43 PM
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Thank You Stormeil and Lady of Avalon for your thoughts on this. I will keep watch for more news on this and will post if I see anymore. I do hope and pray that they will have this back in Scotland for the Big Homecoming.
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TheCarolinaScotsman 
Posted: 19-Nov-2008, 10:21 PM
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As for being moved safely, some of the Dead Sea Scrolls are on exhibit in Raleigh, NC. The Israeli authorities approved this first ever movement of the fragile framents out of the country. Extraordinary measures were taken to insure the safety of the scrolls. If those two thousand year old scrolls, important to all Jews and Christians alike, and fragile beyond imagining, can be moved safely for an exhibit on another continent, then I have no doubt that these chronicles can make the trip.


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CelticQueenCelticLord 
Posted: 02-Feb-2009, 11:33 PM
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Hello from Los Lunas
Just been with Celtic Radio for a couple days now and really like it.
I was browsing the forums and of course anything about my Caladonia peaks my interest. I just finished reading Micheal Phillips Legend of the Celtic Stone and Ancient Strife. They are excellent reads and clued me in to a lot of history.
So now, to learn some more of my history. Anything new on the Birth Certificate for the Home Coming? It def should be home instead of in France. It is not thier history. Also, please clue me into just exactly what is the Home Coming. My dear departed Grandpa, passed away a couple years ago at 101, came here from Scotland and in his very late years tried to fill me in on what he could remember about home and its history but nothing about this. He may not have known about it either. He and Grandma are now back home where they belong.
Thanks


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