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Patch 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 12:25 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 19-Jun-2008, 05:27 AM)
USN;

Just one question. When will Humanity outgrow these foolish superstitions?


Camac.

Probably never.

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Camac
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 19-Jun-2008, 11:38 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 19-Jun-2008, 11:27 AM)
USN;

Just one question. When will Humanity outgrow these foolish superstitions?


Camac.

When we are no longer separated from the ground of our being, or another words when we know the why.

USN;

I propose the WHY is one of two reasons put forward by Issac Azimov in the 50's:

1.) We are a natural stage in the Evolution of the Universe and life abounds everywhere.

2.) We are an aberation, a freak, and since Nature abhors a freak we are destined to obliteration.

This is of course my humble opinion.


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stoirmeil 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 19-Jun-2008, 01:35 PM)
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 19-Jun-2008, 11:38 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 19-Jun-2008, 11:27 AM)
USN;

Just one question. When will Humanity outgrow these foolish superstitions?


Camac.

When we are no longer separated from the ground of our being, or another words when we know the why.

USN;

I propose the WHY is one of two reasons put forward by Issac Azimov in the 50's:

1.) We are a natural stage in the Evolution of the Universe and life abounds everywhere.

2.) We are an aberation, a freak, and since Nature abhors a freak we are destined to obliteration.

This is of course my humble opinion.


Camac.

I could propose a third angle on it. At my most pessimistic, and to be honest I don't live in nearly that state all the time -- but at my glummest, I think humanity is an evolutionary experiment that is failing: the higher cortical front-loading of the brain should have been coming along equally to put the brakes of rational consideration and delay of gratification on the more automatic, animal-reflex reactions of the limbic system, which is emotionally driven (emotions in the primitive sense of survival: floods of neurotransmitters and hormones that say "Run away! Fight! Eat! Mate!"). In other words, we should have a great deal more control and choice over these things as a result of all that curly grey matter. But the crap shoot was, and is, that all that front-loading could also be put to other uses, like more and more ingenious ways to do damage. And I think, at my worst, that that has come to be the preferred modality. Almost everything we do or devise or create is a two-edged sword of almost infinite potential to do harm as well as good -- that is what separates us from other animals and puts us so terribly out of balance with the ecosystem. The whole construct of religion is only one example, and maybe the most ironic one, because it is religion precisely that attempts to compensate for the lack or maybe aberrations of development by telling us how to act (in ways that correspond with better cortical control), in the first place, and then by assuring us that we ARE different, special, set apart from the rest of all life, that we were put here to take charge of it all, and in many ways that assurance calls out anything but the best in our shaky natures. Think about it -- we can't do away with the least insect in the chain without compromising the system to our own and all other species' eventual harm, but they could probably do just fine without us.

But don't let me take the joy out of your ice cream today. Most of the time I love us, and even when I don't the species makes me weep rather than rage.
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Camac
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 02:11 PM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 19-Jun-2008, 01:57 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 19-Jun-2008, 01:35 PM)
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 19-Jun-2008, 11:38 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 19-Jun-2008, 11:27 AM)
USN;

Just one question. When will Humanity outgrow these foolish superstitions?


Camac.

When we are no longer separated from the ground of our being, or another words when we know the why.

USN;

I propose the WHY is one of two reasons put forward by Issac Azimov in the 50's:

1.) We are a natural stage in the Evolution of the Universe and life abounds everywhere.

2.) We are an aberation, a freak, and since Nature abhors a freak we are destined to obliteration.

This is of course my humble opinion.


Camac.

I could propose a third angle on it. At my most pessimistic, and to be honest I don't live in nearly that state all the time -- but at my glummest, I think humanity is an evolutionary experiment that is failing: the higher cortical front-loading of the brain should have been coming along equally to put the brakes of rational consideration and delay of gratification on the more automatic, animal-reflex reactions of the limbic system, which is emotionally driven (emotions in the primitive sense of survival: floods of neurotransmitters and hormones that say "Run away! Fight! Eat! Mate!"). In other words, we should have a great deal more control and choice over these things as a result of all that curly grey matter. But the crap shoot was, and is, that all that front-loading could also be put to other uses, like more and more ingenious ways to do damage. And I think, at my worst, that that has come to be the preferred modality. Almost everything we do or devise or create is a two-edged sword of almost infinite potential to do harm as well as good -- that is what separates us from other animals and puts us so terribly out of balance with the ecosystem. The whole construct of religion is only one example.

But don't let me take the joy out of your ice cream today. Most of the time I love us, and even when I don't the species makes me weep rather than rage.

stoirmeil;

I for one have infinite faith in the Human Animal. It has taken us two million long rough years to get where we are and it might take another two million (if we survive) but in the end I think we will make it. For are we not Godlike in our appearance, unrestrainable in our intellect, and above all curious as to our destiny?



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stoirmeil 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 19-Jun-2008, 02:11 PM)
I for one have infinite faith in the Human Animal. It has taken us two million long rough years to get where we are and it might take another two million (if we survive) but in the end I think we will make it. For are we not Godlike in our appearance, unrestrainable in our intellect, and above all curious as to our destiny?



Camac.

We are indeed unrestrainable in our intellect, and curious as to our destiny. That's one of the gifts/curses of the developmental trajectory. But that's two out of three I agree with. It's one thing to say there is God, and quite another to say we are Godlike in any way the rest of creation is not. That's an irrational leap for comfort and a claim to power against chaos that is not justified in the way we take it (and use or abuse it) to be -- again, most conspicuously through the formal constructs of religion -- and possibly not justified at all.
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Nova Scotian 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 18-Jun-2008, 08:06 PM)
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Question # 1. What is offensive about the fact that the protestant communion is not the Sacred Body and Blood of Christ?

Question #2. What is unfounded about the assertion from the Vatican that the protestant communion is invalid?

Question #3 How do you presume yourself to be a higher authority than the Vatican regarding the validity of the protestant communion?



Who is the vatican to assume themself ANY sort of an authority? The catholic church is not the church of the christ, but is a church of man. NO man, not even the pope can know the mind of the Creator.
YOU, my friend are FAR and away TOO full of yourself!
And NO, I am NOT a protestant, I am of a non-christian church.

Strongly put but over all I agree with you. thumbs_up.gif


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 04:51 PM
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QUOTE (royalosiodhachain @ 19-Jun-2008, 05:38 AM)

Patch, I am not an ordained Priest, you and I both are Priest (sacramentally by Baptism and Holy Matrimony) conferred upon us through the annointing, as "we are a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people set apart". I at one time considered and was accepted to the seminary for formation to the Priesthood then changed my course to Matrimony. I have seven children and 6 grandchildren. Your function and mine as head of the extended church meaning the home is to direct our families and ourselves to the Sacraments and the Catechism as one of our Priestly obligations.

Slainte,

Royal O'siodhachain [/QUOTE]
I thought I detected some theological training.

Slàinte,    

Patch     [/QUOTE]
Patch, Yes theological training and 57 years of persecution and reception of Holy Communion and Penance and 20 years of catechesis and 15 years as Eucharistic Minister and 20 years working on ecuminism with protestants and I might add aiding in the conversion of a protestant minister and several other protestant participants. Converting from a protestant community to Catholic is not a painful process, rather it is pure joy in finding the truth and the Body and Blood of Christ. My aid was loving, kind and caring toward the protestants, I simply refuse to allow them to believe a farce and when they see the honesty of my intent, they convert.

First if I may royalosiodhachain is to welcome you to our community here at CR where most people share one thing and it is the love of all that is celtic.
I see that you have started a hot topic especially your first and respect that but I see also by your strong remarks towards members are a bit inappropriate and disrespectful.
Your remarks borders on the "extremism" & "fanaticism"especially when you talk about "converting protestant".Is this what it is about? Trying to convert? If so, there is only one thing I can tell you is "live and let live". In my eyes there is nothing more disrespectful then to try to convert others.Because it is thinking that what they believe in is wrong and make them think that what you believe in is right.

Are we going back to medieval time here? bag.gif

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Dogshirt 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 06:21 PM
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QUOTE
could propose a third angle on it. At my most pessimistic, and to be honest I don't live in nearly that state all the time -- but at my glummest, I think humanity is an evolutionary experiment that is failing: the higher cortical front-loading of the brain should have been coming along equally to put the brakes of rational consideration and delay of gratification on the more automatic, animal-reflex reactions of the limbic system, which is emotionally driven (emotions in the primitive sense of survival: floods of neurotransmitters and hormones that say "Run away! Fight! Eat! Mate!"). In other words, we should have a great deal more control and choice over these things as a result of all that curly grey matter. But the crap shoot was, and is, that all that front-loading could also be put to other uses, like more and more ingenious ways to do damage. And I think, at my worst, that that has come to be the preferred modality. Almost everything we do or devise or create is a two-edged sword of almost infinite potential to do harm as well as good -- that is what separates us from other animals and puts us so terribly out of balance with the ecosystem. The whole construct of religion is only one example, and maybe the most ironic one, because it is religion precisely that attempts to compensate for the lack or maybe aberrations of development by telling us how to act (in ways that correspond with better cortical control), in the first place, and then by assuring us that we ARE different, special, set apart from the rest of all life, that we were put here to take charge of it all, and in many ways that assurance calls out anything but the best in our shaky natures. Think about it -- we can't do away with the least insect in the chain without compromising the system to our own and all other species' eventual harm, but they could probably do just fine without us.

But don't let me take the joy out of your ice cream today. Most of the time I love us, and even when I don't the species makes me weep rather than rage.



Ilove you Darlin', Tae hell wi' the drink, MARRY ME an' we'll set 'em aright! tongue.gif


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Dogshirt 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE
QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 18-Jun-2008, 08:22 PM)
The catholic church was started by Emporer Constantine and the office of pope was an appointment, christ didn't even enter the picture. AND having 2-3 popes at one time would seem that he doen't have a hand in it.
I strongly suggest you read your own church's history and not just "cherry pick" those tidbits you choose to belive.


 


Dogshirt, Your information is historically incorrect. The entire library of historical record would easily prove your falseness, however suffice it to say that Christ established and gave authority to St Peter long before Constantine. I am in worship at the Ukrainian Catholic church which uses a Liturgy developed during the time of Constantine and that Liturgy reverts to the authority of Christ and Saint Peter, not Constantine. Constantine was merely a King who converted to Catholic and prevented persecution of the Christian and himself worshiped in Catholic doctrine. Constantine conferred no authority upon the Bishops nor Popes as he had no authority to do so, rather the Pope blessed the reign of Constantine and wished him well.



At the very real risk of seeming rude, you are SO F'ng stupid you make my PUPPY seem like EINSTEIN! OFFENDED? I really don't care! Join the 21st century or die quietly in your corner, I'm tired of you 2nd grade drivel!
To the rest of my FRIENDS here, my appologies, but I've had enough of blind , arrogant s@@t from this dweeb!


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stevenpd 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 09:18 PM
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Dogshirt 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 09:30 PM
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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 19-Jun-2008, 04:51 PM)


members are a bit inappropriate and disrespectful.
Your remarks borders on the "extremism" & "fanaticism"especially when you talk about "converting protestant".Is this what it is about? Trying to convert? If so, there is only one thing I can tell you is "live and let live". In my eyes there is nothing more disrespectful then to try to convert others.Because it is thinking that what they believe in is wrong and make them think that what you believe in is right.

Are we going back to medieval time here? bag.gif

LOA

First if I may royalosiodhachain is to welcome you to our community here at CR where most people share one thing and it is the love of all that is celtic.
I see that you have started a hot topic especially your first and respect that but I see also by your strong remarks towards members are a bit inappropriate and disrespectful.
Your remarks borders on the "extremism" & "fanaticism"especially when you talk about "converting protestant".Is this what it is about? Trying to convert? If so, there is only one thing I can tell you is "live and let live". In my eyes there is nothing more disrespectful then to try to convert others.Because it is thinking that what they believe in is wrong and make them think that what you believe in is right.

Are we going back to medieval time here?[I]

Lady Godiva, I do not know exactly what it is that you are trying to convert me to? Please explain. Your effort to convert me is in direct contradiction to your own estimation of disrespect.
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royalosiodhachain 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (royalosiodhachain @ 19-Jun-2008, 10:45 PM)
QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 19-Jun-2008, 04:51 PM)


members are a bit inappropriate and disrespectful.
Your remarks borders on the "extremism" & "fanaticism"especially when you talk about "converting protestant".Is this what it is about? Trying to convert? If so, there is only one thing I can tell you is "live and let live". In my eyes there is nothing more disrespectful then to try to convert others.Because it is thinking that what they believe in is wrong and make them think that what you believe in is right.

Are we going back to medieval time here? bag.gif

LOA

First if I may royalosiodhachain is to welcome you to our community here at CR where most people share one thing and it is the love of all that is celtic.
I see that you have started a hot topic especially your first and respect that but I see also by your strong remarks towards members are a bit inappropriate and disrespectful.
Your remarks borders on the "extremism" & "fanaticism"especially when you talk about "converting protestant".Is this what it is about? Trying to convert? If so, there is only one thing I can tell you is "live and let live". In my eyes there is nothing more disrespectful then to try to convert others.Because it is thinking that what they believe in is wrong and make them think that what you believe in is right.

Are we going back to medieval time here?[I]

Lady Godiva, I do not know exactly what it is that you are trying to convert me to? Please explain. Your effort to convert me is in direct contradiction to your own estimation of disrespect.

Lady Godiva, Its ok now, I understand. I had to think about it for awhile but I believe you are trying to convert me to moral relativism or more simply put that if a great many people are doing it, then it must be right. Is that what you stand for?
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 11:39 PM
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QUOTE (royalosiodhachain @ 19-Jun-2008, 10:45 PM)

Lady Godiva, I do not know exactly what it is that you are trying to convert me to? Please explain. Your effort to convert me is in direct contradiction to your own estimation of disrespect.

No one is trying to convert you to anything, sir. The point is that no one here tries to convert anyone to anything. We live and let live in the matter of our wide range of convictions, and in fact the diversity is one of our founding strengths. I don't know how to put it plainer than that for you.

You have, apparently deliberately, misaddressed two of our members now in a manner which is hard to interpret in any other way than insulting, and not as subtly clever as you seem to think, either. Dogshirt is not "Dogstream," and Lady of Avalon is certainly not "Lady Godiva". In my estimation you have pretty much blown it in terms of settling yourself here for a friendly, genuine discussion, and now you are seeking any kind of attention you can get, probably in lieu of nothing at all. If you do honestly value your convictions and the opportunity to share them, you might consider adjusting your interpersonal skills before you get much older.
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Camac
Posted: 20-Jun-2008, 07:32 AM
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I have been reading the Epistles spouted by royal who ever the hell he is. Sounds like a chap I once knew by the name of "Torquemada". As to insulting the good people of this forum; "Take care, people have been known to choke on them"



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