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Celtic Radio Community > Philosophy & Science > Are Thoughts As Bad As Deeds?


Posted by: peckery 01-Jul-2004, 08:11 PM
I have heard it said many times that your thoughts destroy you as much as your deeds. I don't want to go down the yellow brick road of psychobabble here, but are we as good as our deeds or as guilty as our deepest thoughts. king.gif

Posted by: birddog20002001 01-Jul-2004, 08:35 PM
I think no. I feel that yes, one may have bad thoughts; but the controll of those thoughts is what redeems us. For example say this one fellah wants to go out and shoot people, he knows it is wrong but he does it anyways, he kills 16 people including his wife and mother and injures 30. That was Charles Whitman the UT tower sniper if he had been able to controll his self he could have gone on being an above average student and eventually dying of the brain tumor he had, in obscurity. Now I do feel that there are some psychic injuries, but they fade as do physical injuries only leaving mental scars.

Posted by: WizardofOwls 01-Jul-2004, 08:42 PM
Matthew 5:28 says "But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Posted by: BluegrassLady 02-Jul-2004, 02:57 AM
I believe the same as birddog. We cannot always control our thoughts, but we can control how/if we act upon them.

Posted by: Camchak 02-Jul-2004, 05:49 AM
ISAIAH 55:8

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways," declares the Lord.

MATTHEW 15:19

"For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slander."

2 CORINTHIANS 10:5

.......we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.

Posted by: Aaediwen 02-Jul-2004, 01:03 PM
It's not a good thing to think of ill will toward someone. The above biblical quotes come to mind (Perticularly the first one). But sometimes I do have Racist, Sexist, Murderous, or similar thoughts cross my mind. I try not to give characters in these scenes a name. At least without an identity, then it's not against anyone and the bad karma can filter off into oblivion just leaving me feeling bad about even thinking such a thing. I try not to let any of that show, because it's not who I am. I'd rather only myself get hurt, than myself and someone else because of ill thoughts that invade my mind from time to time.

Posted by: urian 02-Jul-2004, 01:33 PM
I tend to agree with birddog. We are all human(even sock monkeys) and we are weak. We think impure and bad things sometimes. This can be seen as a test of our strength or a sign of our weakness.
Bad thoughts, impure thoughts, and just plain mean thoughts come and go all the time. It is up to us to push them out of our mind before we dwell on them. It is the dwelling that may lead us down the road to temptation and to acting on whatever that thought might be. And there are the thoughts that we may bring about ourselves. Looking at another member of the opposite sex and thinking things is one example. We can avoid these by removing ourselves from situations where we may tend to think as such. I know that is easier said than done sometimes.
In conclusion , thoughts only destroy us if we allow them to monopolize our time and allow them to become manifest in our actions. In overcoming the thoughts we may have, we all take one step closer to becoming who we need to be.

My ramblings
Urian

Posted by: WizardofOwls 02-Jul-2004, 02:41 PM
As far as just the person who thinks a thought is concerned, I would say that I believe that yes, a thought is as bad as a deed, which is why the Bible instructs us to brings every thought under subjection.

However when the thinker involves another person, no. A thought only hurts the person who thinks it. But when you start involving other people then the deed becomes worse than the thought, becuaes it no longer involves just the person who thought it in the first place.

Does that make sense? unsure.gif I'm not the best at expressing my thoughts in writing.

Posted by: Raven 02-Jul-2004, 03:03 PM
QUOTE (urian @ 02-Jul-2004, 02:33 PM)
I tend to agree with birddog. We are all human(even sock monkeys) and we are weak.

I think you have really crossed the line here Urian...I mean come on...Sock Monkeys???? tongue.gif

I often wonder just what exactly people are thinking unsure.gif

Peace

Mikel

Posted by: urian 02-Jul-2004, 05:36 PM
QUOTE (Raven @ 02-Jul-2004, 04:03 PM)
I often wonder just what exactly people are thinking unsure.gif

Peace

Mikel

I don't. It can be a scarey place(the mind) and the mind of others is not a place I care to go. Heck, I get lost just changing trains of thought in my own mind! biggrin.gif

And,in hindsight, I did step over the line. I hope the sockmonkeys of the worl will find it in their hearts to forgive and forget..I'd hate to get stalked by a sock..what was that noise? unsure.gif

Posted by: Camchak 03-Jul-2004, 09:35 PM
ROFL.....I think the Ninja sock monkeys are after you!

Posted by: Aaediwen 04-Jul-2004, 12:19 AM
What do sock monkeys have to do with this conversation? Maintain focus my friends. This isn't about sock monkeys, it's about which is worse between thoughts and actions. wink.gif

Posted by: maisky 04-Jul-2004, 04:49 AM
Thoughts are just as bad as deeds when your wife reads them. Mine is telepathic. biggrin.gif

From a Buddhist perspective, we constantly make causes with our thoughts, our words and our actions. We reap the results of the causes in the effects that come from them. One of the goals of my practice is to try to have SOME control over all three of these.

Posted by: freekenny 24-Jul-2004, 11:01 PM
O'siyo,
My opinion only of course smile.gif ..No, I do not believe that my thoughts are as bad as an actual deed~ A thought, if mine, is just that..my thought and my thought does not harm nor affect others unless I act upon it hence it becoming a deed~~ If that thought is of evil or wrong intention and I end up 'acting' out that deed well, I must pay the consequences~ No one caused me to commit a bad deed just as no one is responsible for me having a 'bad' thought..
As far as someone looking at another person, same or opposite sex, and 'thinking' to themself how attractive that person is, do I think that is wrong? NO..we are human and to admire others, I believe, is natural~I have great admiration for others in many ways and if I see a nice looking man and think 'wow, I really would like to meet him' or 'wow, he has a nice butt' then I don't think I am going to be 'damned' for that thought nor do I feel I have done anything wrong~
I don't believe a thought, good or bad, is anything like an actual good or bad deed~ cool.gif When it comes right down to it, the one having the thought, good or bad, is the only one with the power to keep it as a thought or act upon it~ To me there is a big difference~
~~Sty-U red_bandana.gif

Posted by: Wolverine 09-Sep-2004, 06:01 AM
Look, I don't hope that having bad thoughts is thought the same...
My god, there would not be many who would not have sinned.
The next step would be to arrest everyone having a bad thought.

Reminds me of a startrek episode.
Thats what actually happend in that episode.

Now there is however a difference between bad thoughts and wishing something bad happens to someone.
The latter is I think a wee bit worse...If not much worse.

But I also believe in what you do, will come back times 3.


Posted by: maisky 12-Dec-2004, 05:56 AM
QUOTE (freekenny @ 24-Jul-2004, 11:01 PM)
O'siyo,
My opinion only of course smile.gif ..No, I do not believe that my thoughts are as bad as an actual deed~ A thought, if mine, is just that..my thought and my thought does not harm nor affect others unless I act upon it hence it becoming a deed~~ If that thought is of evil or wrong intention and I end up 'acting' out that deed well, I must pay the consequences~ No one caused me to commit a bad deed just as no one is responsible for me having a 'bad' thought..
As far as someone looking at another person, same or opposite sex, and 'thinking' to themself how attractive that person is, do I think that is wrong? NO..we are human and to admire others, I believe, is natural~I have great admiration for others in many ways and if I see a nice looking man and think 'wow, I really would like to meet him' or 'wow, he has a nice butt' then I don't think I am going to be 'damned' for that thought nor do I feel I have done anything wrong~
I don't believe a thought, good or bad, is anything like an actual good or bad deed~ cool.gif When it comes right down to it, the one having the thought, good or bad, is the only one with the power to keep it as a thought or act upon it~ To me there is a big difference~
~~Sty-U red_bandana.gif

Is this like when I look at a picture of a particular "biker chick" and think "WOW, she's HOT!"? biggrin.gif
And when I exchange thoughts via posts with this same "chick" and think of what a BEAUTIFUL spirit she has and think of how great it would be to meet this person (un-named) someday? naughty.gif

Posted by: freekenny 14-Dec-2004, 12:57 PM
QUOTE (maisky @ 12-Dec-2004, 06:56 AM)
QUOTE (freekenny @ 24-Jul-2004, 11:01 PM)
O'siyo,
My opinion only of course smile.gif ..No, I do not believe that my thoughts are as bad as an actual deed~ A thought, if mine, is just that..my thought and my thought does not harm nor affect others unless I act upon it hence it becoming a deed~~ If that thought is of evil or wrong intention and I end up 'acting' out that deed well, I must pay the consequences~ No one caused me to commit a bad deed just as no one is responsible for me having a 'bad' thought..
As far as someone looking at another person, same or opposite sex, and 'thinking' to themself how attractive that person is, do I think that is wrong? NO..we are human and to admire others, I believe, is natural~I have great admiration for others in many ways and if I see a nice looking man and think 'wow, I really would like to meet him' or 'wow, he has a nice butt' then I don't think I am going to be 'damned' for that thought nor do I feel I have done anything wrong~
I don't believe a thought, good or bad, is anything like an actual good or bad deed~ cool.gif When it comes right down to it, the one having the thought, good or bad, is the only one with the power to keep it as a thought or act upon it~ To me there is a big difference~
~~Sty-U red_bandana.gif

Is this like when I look at a picture of a particular "biker chick" and think "WOW, she's HOT!"? biggrin.gif
And when I exchange thoughts via posts with this same "chick" and think of what a BEAUTIFUL spirit she has and think of how great it would be to meet this person (un-named) someday? naughty.gif

O'siyo maisky,
~ You humble me and it would be my honour to meet you someday! hug.gif
~~ Ni Ya We for the kind words dear maisky..I must say, you kind one, bring tears of laughter to my eyes, then on some days when I read your posts such as this one, well, you bring tears to these eyes of mine because, it is so rare now days for someone to have such kind words that are shared with such a sincere heart and spirit!! You dear maisky are rare...like precious diamonds!! Ni Ya We to the Great Spirit for affording me the opportunity to have encountered such a wonderful spirit such as you and so many others on CelticRadio! cheers.gif
~~Sty-U red_bandana.gif

Posted by: Ceciliastar1 14-Dec-2004, 01:41 PM
Hmmm... tht is a good question. I do not think that thoughts are as bad as deeds. In the Christain faith they can be. I look at it this way, thoughts can lead to bad deeds and people need to get control of those thoughts. I don't know if it makes any sense.

A good example are the guys on my college campus. It's a catholic school so you meet a lot of whackos. Anyway, girls are not allowed to dress certain ways because they are guilted into not wearing the clothes. there is no dress code. Girls can't wear low-rise jeans, or v-neck shirts, or belly shirts or thins to that effect. The guys on the campus have walked up to me before and told me I shouldn't dress like that because I just led them to sin by their thoughts. (For one that was rude). Anyway, obviously I was insulted. I still dress the way I want. I am not dressing that way to lead people into sinfl thoughts. I did nothing wrong. I don't even show cleavage for crying out loud. What I'm trying to say is that those men need to control their thoughts because they may lead them into bad things, instead of blaming their thoughts on what someone is wearing they need to admit they are horny and that they need to stop thinking about women that way. All I'm trying to say through all of my babbling is that thoughts can lead to bad things and they need to be controlled by the individual.

Posted by: birddog20002001 14-Dec-2004, 06:45 PM
QUOTE
I shouldn't dress like that because I just led them to sin by their thoughts. (For one that was rude).

For two dollars to pesos he was hitting on you, but didn't know how to do it.

Posted by: maisky 15-Dec-2004, 08:26 AM
Ceciliastar1, ladies are ALWAYS welcome to wear provocative clothes around ME. tongue.gif

Posted by: dbull 15-Dec-2004, 08:53 AM
biggrin.gif As a Christian let me tell you this. NO. Just because you thought something, doesn't mean you're gulity of anything. Of course there are some radicals out there that forget that we're human and inperfect and that God loves us no matter what. They sometimes may try to tell you different. But if someone or anyone told me they never had an inperfect or inpure thought, then the just sinned with a lie.
Now of course thoughts put action into motion but, only you have the responsibility and are capable to stop yourself.

Posted by: Ceciliastar1 15-Dec-2004, 11:28 AM
QUOTE (maisky @ 15-Dec-2004, 09:26 AM)
Ceciliastar1, ladies are ALWAYS welcome to wear provocative clothes around ME. tongue.gif

maisky and birddog you guys are hilarious. Well I thank you for the offer, lol. My point was though that I wasn't wearing anything provocative. Maybe I should though and see what kind of reactions I would get.... naughty.gif

Posted by: maryellen 15-Dec-2004, 01:33 PM
Matthew 5: 27"You have heard that it was said, `Do not commit adultery.' 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."

So what Jesus said is wrong? If you lust after someone (thought), you don't commit adultery (action)?

I only mention Jesus because of the reference to Christian several times. I am aware it is the Philosophy forum.

Posted by: maisky 16-Dec-2004, 08:13 AM
QUOTE (Ceciliastar1 @ 15-Dec-2004, 11:28 AM)
maisky and birddog you guys are hilarious. Well I thank you for the offer, lol. My point was though that I wasn't wearing anything provocative. Maybe I should though and see what kind of reactions I would get.... naughty.gif

Pictures? Please? laugh.gif

Posted by: maisky 16-Dec-2004, 08:16 AM
QUOTE (maryellen @ 15-Dec-2004, 01:33 PM)
Matthew 5:    27"You have heard that it was said, `Do not commit adultery.' 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."

So what Jesus said is wrong?  If you lust after someone (thought), you don't commit adultery (action)?

I only mention Jesus because of the reference to Christian several times.  I am aware it is the Philosophy forum.

Does this mean we should "go for the gold" and take ACTION on these impulses? Wouldn't that put us on the same level as animals? Doesn't self determination imply that we learn to control these impulses? I don't honestly think feeling guilty about these subconsious impulses accomplishes anything good. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: maryellen 05-Jan-2005, 11:11 AM
Feeling guilty about those subconscious impluses keeps people from turning those thoughts into action.

Perhaps

Posted by: maisky 06-Jan-2005, 06:41 AM
QUOTE (maryellen @ 05-Jan-2005, 11:11 AM)
Feeling guilty about those subconscious impluses keeps people from turning those thoughts into action.

Perhaps

It's true, that many people rely on guilt and fear to limit their impulse-action package. Personally, I prefer to examine my impulses and consciously decide between action/non-action. I may STILL mess up, but at least I am in control of the cause/effect cycle. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Haldur 06-Jan-2005, 05:22 PM
Life is a series of mistakes, learn, mistakes, learn...life is weird.

Posted by: erickbloodax 06-Jan-2005, 08:51 PM
Sensei says, "where the head goes the body will follow." Thoughts that pop in and out are not a problem, but dwelling on thoughts can be.

We can control how happy or sad we are by how we choose to think about our circumstances. Should we dwell in bitterness and anger, we become bitter angry people.

I hope that is what the lesson is, otherwise the thoughts I have had about a redheaded member, well just put me in a chute in the basement straight to hell. lookaround.gif

Posted by: maisky 09-Jan-2005, 07:22 AM
QUOTE (Haldur @ 06-Jan-2005, 05:22 PM)
Life is a series of mistakes, learn, mistakes, learn...life is weird.

The wisdom that comes with age allows us to recognize mistakes when we make them again.... biggrin.gif

Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 09-Jan-2005, 08:08 AM
QUOTE (erickbloodax @ 06-Jan-2005, 09:51 PM)

I hope that is what the lesson is, otherwise the thoughts I have had about a redheaded member, well just put me in a chute in the basement straight to hell. lookaround.gif

You are in a large company sir.

Posted by: maisky 10-Jan-2005, 10:34 AM
I am also a member of the elite company to which you are refering, Sir!

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