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> 6 Celtic Languages, But Only 3 Gaelics!
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barddas 
Posted: 08-Jul-2004, 02:53 PM
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I knew I was somewhere in the playing field!!LOL!
And I never really thought about the point you made that Gaelic being the second language, I just took it for granted, that it was primarily a Highland language and never thought anymore about it.] And before talking yer arm off about Lallans etc.... I only really knew of it in, Burn's writings.

I know personally I have taken a real liking to Lallans. It certainly doesn't hurt that my dads side originates south of Glasgow. Which I believe would be consideredin the 'Central Belt', or upper Lowlands. And that has really changed how I approach songs that we ( My band) play. I try to find things that are in the traditional language to 1) be accurate, and 2) maybe spark someone elses interest as you had mine.

So now I am trying to fill m'brain with 2 additional languages....

Maybe that's why I have headaches???? laugh.gif

This post has been edited by barddas on 08-Jul-2004, 03:05 PM


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Ladybug1258 
  Posted: 08-Jul-2004, 11:14 PM
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I don't know what form of Gaelic she sings in some of her songs, but I have Enya to thank for my interest in learning what little Gaelic I now know. Some of the songs on the CDs I have are in some form or other of Gaelic, except the Lord of the Rings soundtracks, in which she sings Elvish(purely a made-up language, but beautiful none the less!). Olde English was also used in the "Lord of the Rings - The Two Towers" movie when Theodred died and a song of prayer was sung at his graveside by his cousin, Eowyn. It was very moving to hear the old languages used in such an eloquent way.
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barddas 
Posted: 09-Jul-2004, 07:25 AM
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Ladybug, I would guess that it is Irish Gaelic. Being that she is from Ireland, and her former band Clannad sang a lot of old Trad songs in Irish Gaelic.
The Elvish language is rooted around the Welsh language.
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Danann 
Posted: 09-Jul-2004, 09:22 AM
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Enya does sing mostly in Irish Gaelic - Gaelige. The easiest way to kind of tell the difference is that Scots Gaelic - Gàidhlig - seems to have picked up a bit more of the germanic gutteral sound. The ch and guh sounds seem to be a bit more prominate. Someone correct me if I am worng, but that's just what I've noticed by listening.


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SeamusM 
Posted: 22-Jul-2004, 10:55 AM
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Kind of interesting
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The word "Celt" refers to several groups who lived in central and western Europe and can be broken down into two categories: Brythonic Celts and Goidelic Celts.
Hmm how aobut the Celto-Iberians believe it or not they do have a strong influence in their language mixed with latin. I just get peeved that most people never include ALL of the celtic nations when they speak of them.

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Danann 
Posted: 22-Jul-2004, 04:22 PM
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Celtic-Iberians, which is now located mostly in spain's culture, is more of an Italic based language than a gaulish or a celtic origin. It did have its start as a mixture of gaelic and latin/greek, but it is so different from other Celtic branches (P and Q) that its no longer considered one of the main or minor celtic languanges. As I said, its considered to be a Celtic-Italic to some degree, but the spanish and latin influences seem to overwhelm the celtic.

Celtiberian, (Celto-Iberian) is an extinct Indo-European language of the western part of the Iberian Peninsula. Celto-Iberian was written in the Iberic script (borrowed from speakers of the non-Indo-European Iberian language in eastern and southern Spain) and is known primarily from a small number of coin inscriptions and an even smaller number of inscriptions on stone.

QUOTE
The Celtiberians were people who dwelt in the Iberian Peninsula The Iberian Peninsula, or Iberia, is located in the extreme southwest of Europe. It is bordered on the south and east by the Mediterranean Sea, and on the north and west by the Atlantic Ocean. The Pyrenees form the northeast edge of the peninsula, connecting it to the rest of Europe. At Gibraltar in the south, it approaches Africa.

In medieval times the peninsula housed many small
..... Click the link for more information.
who spoke a Celtic language Celtic languages are a branch of the Indo-European languages. They were spoken across western Europe in ancient times, but are now limited to a few enclaves in the British Isles and Brittany.

Celtic is traditionally split into two branches:

    * Continental -- Celtiberian, Galatian, Noric, Gaulish, Lepontic. Some elements of Breton may originate in the Continental Celtic languages, although this claim is controversial since Brittany is widely believed to have been settled from Britain in historical times. Otherwise, no member of this family is presently spoken. These languages were once spoken on the European mainland.
*


..... Click the link for more information. . They lived chiefly in what is now north central Spain The Kingdom of Spain is a country located in the southwest of Europe. It shares the Iberian Peninsula with Portugal and Gibraltar. To the northeast, along the Pyrenees mountain range, it borders France and the tiny principality of Andorra. It includes the Balearic Islands in the Mediterranean Sea, the Canary Islands in the Atlantic Ocean, the cities of Ceuta and Melilla in the north of Africa, and a number of minor uninhabited islands on the Mediterranean side of the strait of Gibraltar, such as the Chafarine islands, the "rocks" (es: peñones) of Vélez and Alhucemas, and the tiny Parsley Island.
..... Click the link for more information. .

Two other Celtic languages, Tartessian and Lusitanian, were spoken in pre-Roman Iberia. The Lusitanii gave their name to Lusitania

Lusitania, an ancient Roman province approximately including current Portugal and part of western current Spain, named after the Lusitani people. The Lusitani were strong warriors whose origins are uncertain; some authors presume they may have descended from the central Spanish Lusoni.

The first colonized by the Lusitani was probably the Douro valley and the region of Beira Alta; in Beira they stayed until they defeated the Celts and other tribes, then they expanded to cover a territory that reached Estremadura before the arrival of the Romans.
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, originally the Latin Alternative meanings: See Latin (disambiguation)

Latin was the language originally spoken in the region around Rome called Latium. It gained great importance as the formal language of the Roman Empire.

All Romance languages descend from a Latin parent, and many words based on Latin are found in other modern languages such as English. Moreover, in the Western world, Latin was
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name for Portugal Portugal is a republic in extreme southwest of Europe, on the Iberian Peninsula, and the Atlantic Ocean (the islands of Azores, Madeira and Savage). Portugal claims Olivença, administrated by Spain, as part of its national territory. It shares land borders with Spain in the north and east, shares a marine border with Morocco in the south. A Portuguese citizen is usually identified as Portuguese but also as
..... Click the link for more information. . Extant tribal names include the Arevaci, Belli, Titti, and Lusones.

Some students maintain that the Celtiberians had some cultural contacts with the Caucasian Iberians Caucasian Iberia is the term designated to the Kingdom of Iberia (4th century BC - 5th century AD) established in Eastern Georgia by the Georgians (Kartvelians). The king of Iberia, Farnavaz I was a reformator of the Georgian alphabet (284 BC). He was also founder of the dynasty of Farnavazians (284 BC-5th century AD). The capital of this Kingdom was Mtskheta.

In the 4th century AD, Equal-to-the Apostles Saint Nino of Cappadocia took Christianity to the Kingdom of Iberia. In 317 it was adopted as the state religion by the rulers of Iberia, king Mirian and queen Nana.
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(now territory of Eastern Georgia Georgia (საქართველო Sakartvelo in Georgian), known from 1990 to 1995 as the Republic of Georgia, is a country to the east of the Black Sea in the south Caucasus. A former republic of the Soviet Union, it shares borders with Russia in the north and Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan in the south.

საქართველო
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), who were natives of the Caucasus The Caucasus is a region in eastern Europe and western Asia between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea which includes the Caucasus mountains and surrounding lowlands. The highest peak is Elbrus (5642m).

The independent nations that comprise today's Caucasus include Russia (Northern Caucasus district), Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan. Large, non-independent areas of the Caucasus include Ossetia, Chechnya, Ingushetia and Dagestan, among others. The Caucasus is one of the most linguistically and culturally diverse places on earth.
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. Very little remains of the language Celtiberians spoke. Any theories of their extinct language have to be grounded on the linguistic origins of some pre-Roman placenames ("toponyms") in the Iberian peninsula that survived long enough to be recorded in documents, on the formulas that were used in some personal names (giving hints of grammar), and on some untranslated inscriptions on bronze and lead plaques, written in an alphabet that combines Phoenician and Greek characteristics. Enough has been preserved to suggest that, unlike the P-Celtic or Brythonic Brythonic is one of two major divisions of modern-day Celtic languages (the other being Goidelic). Also known as P-Celtic, for the way it uses a "P" to begin words that, in the hypothetical base Indo-European language, began with "Qu".

The main living Brythonic languages are Breton and Welsh; other notable tongues are Cornish (which has no native speakers, but is being resurrected), Cumbrian
..... Click the link for more information.
Gaulish language Gaulish is a now-extinct continental Celtic language that was spoken in Gaul before Gaul was conquered by the Romans and then the Franks. It is known from a few, quite small pieces of writing.

It is a Continental Celtic language, with a fairly complicated inflecting morphology. It has six or seven cases. Unfortunately for the future of the language, it was, in fact, quite similar to Latin. This meant that the Gauls had little trouble learning Latin, and, as that was the dominant language at the time, the language died out, though not until after Gaul began to be conquered. Gregory of Tours mentions that there were still some people in his area who knew how to speak Gaulish at the time he wrote, in the sixth century. However, the language must have died out shortly thereafter.
..... Click the link for more information.
spoken in what is now France France, in the context of names of towns or villages, may refer to the original feudal domain of the capetian Kings of France around Paris. See Île-de-France.

The French Republic, or France, is a country located in western Europe, bordered by Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Monaco, Andorra, and Spain. It is a founding member of the European Union.

République Française

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, the Celtiberian language was Q-Celtic or Goidelic Goidelic is one of two major divisions of modern-day Celtic languages (the other being Brythonic). It is also known as Gaelic, or Q-Celtic because of the way that words in Brythonic that begin with "B" or "P" begin with "C" or "K" in Gaelic languages.

Only three Goidelic languages survived into modern times: Irish Gaelic, Scots Gaelic, and Manx Gaelic. Goidelic languages were once restricted
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. The longest extant Celtiberian inscription is on one of several bronze

Bronze is the traditional name for a broad range of alloys of copper, usually with zinc and tin but not limited to just those metals. First utilized during the Bronze Age, to which it gave its name, bronze was used to produce tools, weapons and armor which proved either more durable or harder than their stone and copper predecessors. During the bronze age, arsenic was often included in the bronze (mostly as an impurity), which made the alloy harder still.
..... Click the link for more information.
plaques from Botorrita, near Saragossa Zaragoza redirects here. For other referents, see Zaragoza (disambiguation).

Zaragoza (Latin Caesar Augusta, English traditionally Saragossa) is the capital city of Aragon, Spain, located on the Ebro river near the centre of Aragon.

It is also the capital of the province of Zaragoza.

The population of the municipality of Zaragoza was 620,419 in 2002.

It is linked by legends to the beginnings of Christianity in Spain. According to legend, the Virgin Mary appeared miraculously to Saint James The Greater in the 1st century, atop a pillar. This legend is commemorated by a famous Catholic basilica called Nuestra Señora del Pilar ("Our Lady of the Pillar").
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, late 2nd century BCE.

The Celtiberians had their largest impact on history during the Second Punic War History -- Military history -- War

The Second Punic War was fought between Carthage and Rome from 218 to 204 BC. It was the second of three major wars fought between the Phoenician colony of Carthage, and the Roman Republic, then still confined to the Italian Peninsula.

Background

After Carthage lost its holdings in Sicily to Rome in the First Punic War, Carthage moved
..... Click the link for more information.
, during which they became the (perhaps unwilling) allies of Carthage Carthage (from the Phoenician Kart-Hadasht, the "New City", written without vowels in Punic as Qrthdst), was a city in north Africa located on the eastern side of Lake Tunis, across from the center of modern Tunis in Tunisia. It remains a popular tourist attraction.

Founding of Carthage

In approximately 814 BC, Carthage was founded by Phoenician settlers from the city of Tyre, bringing with them the city-god Melkart. Traditionally, the city was founded by Dido, and a number of foundation myths have survived through Greek and Roman literature.
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in its conflict with Rome Alternate meanings: See Rome (disambiguation)

Rome (Italian and Latin, Roma) is the capital city of Italy. It is located on the Tiber river, in the central part of the country near the Mediterranean Sea, at 41°50'N, 12°15'E. The Vatican City, located in an enclave within Rome, is the seat of the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church (see also under Roman Catholicism).
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, and crossed the Alps The Alps is the collective name for one of the great mountain range systems of Europe, stretching from Austria in the east, Slovenia, Italy, Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Germany, through to France in the west. The highest mountain in the Alps is the Mont Blanc at 4808 meters on the French-Italian border.

    * Position and name of the Alps
    * Limits of the Alps
    * Climate of the Alps
*


..... Click the link for more information.  under Hannibal

Hannibal Barca (247 BC-182 BC) was a military commander of ancient Carthage, best known for his achievements in the Second Punic War in marching an army from Spain over the Pyrenees and the Alps into northern Italy and defeating the Romans at the Battles of the Trebia (218 BC), Lake Trasimene (217 BC) and Cannae (216 BC). After Cannae, the Romans refused to fight him in pitched battles, and gradually captured all the strongholds he had gained in Southern Italy. An invasion of Africa by the Romans under Scipio Africanus in 204 BC forced Hannibal to return to Africa, where Scipio defeated him at Zama (202 BC).
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's command. As a result of the defeat of Carthage, the Celtiberians first submitted to Rome in 195 BC Centuries: 3rd century BC - 2nd century BC - 1st century BC

Decades: 240s BC 230s BC 220s BC 210s BC 200s BC - 190s BC - 180s BC 170s BC 160s BC 150s BC 140s BC

Years: 200 BC 199 BC 198 BC 197 BC 196 BC - 195 BC - 194 BC 193 BC 192 BC 191 BC 190 BC
Events

    * Cato the Elder is elected consul at Rome and campaigns in Spain; he avoids one defeat by paying the Celtiberians 200 talents, a much-criticized tactic.
*


..... Click the link for more information. ; In 182 to 179 T. Sempronius Gracchus spent years pacifying (as the Romans put it) the Celtiberians; however, conflicts between various semi-independent bands of Celtiberians continued. After the Numantine War (154 - 133 BCE), Roman cultural influences increased; this is the period of the earliest Botorrita inscibed plaque; later plaques, significantly, are inscribed in Latin. The war with Sertorius, 79 - 72 BCE, marked the last formal resistance of the Celtiberian cities to Roman domination, which submerged the Celtiberian culture.


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Siarls 
Posted: 10-Feb-2007, 01:50 PM
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Just answering the question:

Can speakers of Brythonic languages understand each other?


I speak Welsh fluently. I have never met a Cornish or a Breton speaker but have seen the languages written.
I don't really understand what's going on, but can see a lot of similar words and sometimes can see connections when pointed out to me.

I have heard that Cornish and Breton are more similar though. Perhaps Welsh is the more distant, like say Romanian is from the other Romance languages? Portuguese and Spanish speakers can understand each other to a large extent, but would have difficulty with Romanian. Perhaps this is a similar situation with the Brythonic languages?

Breton is quite difficult because it has the French 'R' and a lot of French influence. This has probably widened the gap between Breton and its sisters, especially considering how heavily influenced Welsh is by English.

Pointing out a bit more to you, there are differences between Northern and Southern Welsh. As a Southerner, I find Northerners difficult to understand. So there are even fractions within the Brythonic Languages. Such a sad case because I think we are becoming increasingly distant from each other when we should be supporting each other.


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