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| Celtic Radio Community > Politics & Current Events > What's Your Opinion Of The Death Penalty? |
| Posted by: scottish2 06-Oct-2003, 05:04 AM |
| What's your opinion of the Death Penalty? Are you for it or against it or unsure? |
| Posted by: RavenWing 06-Oct-2003, 09:57 AM |
| I am wholeheartedly against it for 2 reasons. 1. It's completely hypocritical 2. There are far worse punishments than death. |
| Posted by: scottish2 06-Oct-2003, 10:00 AM |
| Glad I am not the only one against the DP. Killing the person won't bring that persons victim back and why should I join the ranks of people that kill? Reason I am also against the war. To me this is no different killing is killing. |
| Posted by: Welsh Guy 08-Oct-2003, 12:33 PM |
| From a European perspective, this why the United States cannot be considered as a "Civilised" country (Note: I'm talking here about government not people). No country is allowed membership of the European Union if they continue to maintain the death penalty on it's statutes. This is one of the problems with Turkey's application for membership of the EU. |
| Posted by: scottish2 08-Oct-2003, 01:17 PM |
| I agree fully and to some degree I place this even on the people as so many actually still support such barbaric punishments. Not saying what the criminal did was right but why should we sink to their level??? |
| Posted by: Catriona 08-Oct-2003, 04:12 PM |
| Like most Europeans, I am totally opposed to the death penalty. No country that kills its citizens - for whatever reason - can claim to be 'advanced'.....  |
| Posted by: scottish2 08-Oct-2003, 04:17 PM |
You should see some of the neanderthals that oppse me in the tax forums I participate in LOL    |
| Posted by: Catriona 09-Oct-2003, 03:26 AM | ||
   |
| Posted by: scottish2 09-Oct-2003, 04:24 AM |
| Wow this is actually amazing me I think last time we tried this in the old politics thread it was just the opposite now I notice so far no one that participates here in this thread that has voted supports the DP. This is amazing maybe there is hope. |
| Posted by: Catriona 09-Oct-2003, 04:40 AM | ||
Hmmmm, don't get too hopeful..... only four of us have commented, and two of us are Europeans where the DP is outlawed!!!! |
| Posted by: scottish2 09-Oct-2003, 04:43 AM |
| Hey it's a start you have to think positive that is what I keep telling my tennis doubles partner when we're down 2-5 and come back to win the thing in a tie breaker. LOL |
| Posted by: Welsh Guy 09-Oct-2003, 07:25 AM |
| You may be interested to know that today 10th October is 'The World against the Death Penalty Day' http://www.amnesty.org.uk/action/camp/dp/index.shtml In 2002 at least 1,526 people were executed in 31 countries. At least 3,248 people were sentenced to death in 67 countries. These figures include only cases known to Amnesty International; the true figures were certainly higher. The vast majority of executions worldwide are carried out in a tiny handful of countries. In 2002, 81 percent of all known executions took place in China, Iran and the USA. |
| Posted by: scottish2 09-Oct-2003, 07:29 AM |
| Thanks for the link. And boy are you trying to rush the week it's still the 9th LOL |
| Posted by: Welsh Guy 09-Oct-2003, 07:56 AM |
| Doh! I've wound back my system clock to use a piece of trial software a few days longer I thought today was the 10th! Sorry about that. |
| Posted by: scottish2 09-Oct-2003, 08:02 AM |
| What's the program? |
| Posted by: Welsh Guy 09-Oct-2003, 08:09 AM |
| "Home Plan Pro", I'm just finishing off the designs for the restoration work of our Normandy House, but the designs can only be printed out from within the program. |
| Posted by: scottish2 09-Oct-2003, 08:18 AM |
| OK unfortunately no help from me. Sorry First time have heard of the program. |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 09-Oct-2003, 08:19 AM |
| Well it looks like I am the only one who believes in the Death Penalty. As I have said before "I am an ol' soul". If a person intentional takes the life of one of my loved ones. I, for one, would not be content until they were put under. I believe if you gave the Criminals to our Women. I am quite sure that the Crime Rate would go down GREATLY. |
| Posted by: 3Ravens 10-Oct-2003, 11:36 AM |
| Absolutely! There is nothing more vindictive than a group of women whose family/ friends/etc have been harmed! Hooray for the Clan Mothers! |
| Posted by: 3Ravens 10-Oct-2003, 11:42 AM |
| However, with that said, I also think that there are a lot better things that we can do besides the death penalty. The only time we should kill is for defense. The prison system (esp in the US) is punishment enough! |
| Posted by: scottish2 10-Oct-2003, 12:01 PM |
| That depends. A lot of prisons in the US are more like country clubs rather then prison. I say we should bring back things like chain gangs and such because prison is not suppose to be like Club Med but without the epense to the prisoner. But the death penalty doesn't bring back the prisoners victim. Another thing I personally think on the issue of prisons is drug offenders. Why is it the police go after those that are buying instead o going after the sellers? I saw a cops show the other night and instead of setting up a sting to catch the sellers they posed as sellers and arrested something like 19 people in 3 hours. that's 19 jail cells filled instead of going after the far fewer dealers and stopping the buyers from having a place to buy from. This then also causes us the tax payer to have to pay for every one of these 19 buyers meals and housing (hence the chain gang idea let them grow their own meals instead of living off our backs) But would it not make mopre sense to set up stings to catch the 1 dealer instead of the numerous buyers? Far less time spent and far less people to house and clothe and feed.  |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 10-Oct-2003, 02:58 PM |
| I have to agree with the fact that prisoners (in the U.S.) live better than me. But I do not like the chances of someone who is a real sick killer being able to get the chance to get back out on the streets. To kill someone for greed, hate or just for the fun of it should not just have their fingers slapped, sent to their Country Club for seven to twenty-five years then get out. They would probably miss the lifestyle that they were accustomed to and do something else just to go back in or because they couldn't make it out on the streets. Killing in defense is a totally different matter. They all have their variables. I am not a fighter and I don't like to argue, but I see myself as a Protector. Ad I would Protect your choice even if I disagreed with you unless it causes harm. As far as the Clan Mothers. What would they do to a rapist? What would they do to a person who killed their husband or children? I for one would not want to be recipient in that situation. |
| Posted by: scottish2 10-Oct-2003, 03:15 PM |
| Well main problem I see is the fact that a judge rules without the possibility for pAROLE AND THEN BECAUSE OF OVERCROWDING ISSUES DUE IN A LOT OF CASE TO SO MANY FIRST TIME DRUG OFFENDERS BEING LOCKED UP THE KILLER CRIMINAL THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN COMES UP FOR PAROLE (Opps sorry just realized I hit cap lock To lazy to go back and retype that all) when a judge rules without the possibility for parole it has to remain so not change 5, 10 or even 50 years later just because circumstances change. All this does is tell others that they can commit murder and crime and get out a few years later despite the ruling by the judge. And hey inbetween you get housed fed and in a lot of cases even educated free of charge to yourself and it all gets billed back to us instead ot the criminal getting what he/she deserves and serving a crimianl sentence not just a few years at club med. |
| Posted by: Welsh Guy 10-Oct-2003, 03:15 PM |
| I've always thought that a sentence of life imprisonment should mean "life", I would go further and suggest the authorities offer a voluntary self inflicted euthenasia, with full medical support, to those who demand it. |
| Posted by: scottish2 10-Oct-2003, 04:42 PM |
| I agree Welsh as I don't really like having to pay for the SOB the rest of his/her life either. That's why I said they also need to bring back the chain gangs and force them to grow and raise their own food and hence lighten the load on the people who want to abide by the law. |
| Posted by: RavenWing 13-Oct-2003, 07:51 AM |
| What makes me angry is the free schooling they get while they are ther. I sure don't get any help. Do I have to rob a bank to get financial aid? |
| Posted by: scottish2 13-Oct-2003, 08:11 AM |
| And we have to pay for their education to boot. I seriously feel you folks should take the time to read the tax posts I did and discuss them some as a lot of the junk we have to pay for is just pure abuse.  |
| Posted by: High Plains Drifter 13-Oct-2003, 02:53 PM |
| A rather ironic thing in this country is that most supporters of the death penalty are against abortion because they view it a the taking of a life. Is there something wrong with this picture? |
| Posted by: scottish2 13-Oct-2003, 02:55 PM |
| I'd say and thanks this gives me yet another view point to add to discussions of this nature as I had never thought of that. |
| Posted by: MDF3530 13-Oct-2003, 03:07 PM |
| I have to admit it. I'm one of the two that voted for the death penalty. If you commit the ultimate crime of murder, you should have to pay the ultimate penalty. |
| Posted by: scottish2 13-Oct-2003, 03:57 PM | ||
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| Posted by: Welsh Guy 13-Oct-2003, 04:19 PM | ||
MDF = Medium Density Fiberboard. Hhmmm is that where you get your ideas from?? (Inflexible and has to be varnished before it looks good.) The US is responsible for more state murder (Death Penalty) than any other country in the world except for China and Iran, I hope you're proud of that! The death penalty does not exist in Europe and the murder rate is a small percentage of that of the state of Texas! Then comes the question of false convictions etc. There is no excuse for state killing in a democracy! |
| Posted by: scottish2 13-Oct-2003, 04:46 PM |
| Agreed Welsh. if even .0000000000005% of convictions are wrong that is 1 to many. And from what I have seen figures would seem to indicate more then that are wrongful convictions. |
| Posted by: MDF3530 13-Oct-2003, 05:04 PM |
| Let me clarify my statement. I believe that the death penalty should only be reserved for those caught in the act of committing the murder. No feathers on the dog's muzzle. Caught in the henhouse. Texas has made a mockery of "speedy trial by jury". Their version of that is the Old West version-try it in a kangaroo court then string 'em up. |
| Posted by: maryellen 13-Oct-2003, 05:04 PM |
| I think the death penalty should be abolished. It's too easy. They need to sit in jail, or do hard labor and contimplate what they did wrong. |
| Posted by: scottish2 13-Oct-2003, 05:07 PM | ||
I'll disagree only minor it should be sit in jail and do hard labor.  And your right deaths to easy they don't suffer enough. |
| Posted by: maryellen 13-Oct-2003, 07:21 PM |
Here, here!  |
| Posted by: scottish2 13-Oct-2003, 07:54 PM |
| And no possibility of parole doesn't mean out in 10 or 20. |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 14-Oct-2003, 12:03 AM | ||
QUOTE (MDF3530 @ Oct 14 2003, 12:07 AM)
I am also one of the people who voted for the Death Penalty. If I was to commit such a horrid crime. Then I believe I should pay for the crime by which it was committed. No Gas Chamber, No Hanging, No Lethal Injection unless the Crime was committed in such a manner. For an example: When the Mother (I use the word loosely) drowned her children in the car, in one of the Carolinas. I said that she should be drowned by the same method she did her children. As far as Abortion, I do not know if it should be brought here or on another Thread. But I shall Post my viewpoints on that as well, at the Proper Time and Place. I am not going to change the discussion, it's going well thus far. |
| Posted by: scottish2 14-Oct-2003, 04:32 AM |
| Richard this is fine as it was brought into this trhead for comparison so feel free to talk. Man you don't have to worry so much this is an open forum unlike the outter forum which has to be a little more controled. We can discuss here and not worry and if a discussion gets slightly off topic not to worry is the nature of debate one subject invariablly brings up other close tied topics. |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 14-Oct-2003, 08:03 PM | ||
I do not support Abortion unless the Mother's life is threatened. The Child did not commit a horrid crime or for that matter any crime. The act was committed by two Consenting Adults, whether by accident or deliberate. Thus the child is the innocent one. The Death Penalty is not for the purpose of taking of a life. It is for stopping that killer from committing any more murders and hopefully deterring any others from doing the same. But when that person sits on, so called Death Row for 20 years. They get to live on for another 20 years while the Family of the ones sits and wonders if the murderer of their loved one get the chance to walk free because some Judge someplace doesn't think it is the proper thing to do. If it was a Dog that intentionally killed a Human Being. Would not that Dog be put down? What is the difference? |
| Posted by: High Plains Drifter 14-Oct-2003, 08:09 PM |
| Richard, Thank you |
| Posted by: scottish2 17-Oct-2003, 04:54 PM | ||
And how do you know the Dog was intentionally attacking to kill? Just look at the recent so called attack in that magic Show. Turns out it was an accident but for weeks the media was reporting it as a vicious mauling. When it was later discovered it wasn't and in fact it was almost the act of a mother protecting it's young. How can you be 100% sure that the person did the killing and if there is even a 1% chance he/she didn't do it or had good reason for doing it such as self defense then the DP is wrong period and in my eyes there will always be some doubt. |
| Posted by: maryellen 17-Oct-2003, 05:08 PM |
Rah rah High Plains and Richard! Very excellent point!  I had thought of that, but held back thinking no one would support me. I was silly. I don't understand how many republicans are for the death penalty and against abortion. That's why one can't just vote according to party. |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 17-Oct-2003, 09:06 PM | ||
After a dealing of my own when my Wife was pinned in our house by a dog that was from nowhere in the community, tried to attack the Dog Warden when he was called. Then I would have to say this was an intentional act. And by the way, that particular dog was put down by my own hand when the Dog Warden gave me permission to do with the dog what I want. I am a person who lovers his dogs but I will not have a dog that is aggressive. I never once thought however, that the Tiger you are referring to, made any kind of intensional act of aggression. It is the ones who creates the intentional acts of murder whom I believe should be punished accordingly. When the murder kills, as I before mentioned, and shows no remorse. Then this is the type of person who would go out again and kill even if he is jailed for whatever number of years could still kill while they were incarcerated. What then? There are too many variables and different situation to say all murders are punishable by death. But to the ones who deserve it, should get it. In the act of self defence which results in a death, the person doing the defending should not be put to the same punishment. While the one that was acting in self defence may have intentional killed the aggressor, the said person may have done so inorder to prevent the aggressor from carrying out his intentional act. I understand what you are saying when you refer to the 1%. That is why we have Juries. And I understand that a Jury can be manipulated into believing. This is one of my reasons that I think we should take a deep look at our Legal System. |
| Posted by: Shadows 17-Oct-2003, 09:20 PM |
| Death Penalty...????!!! If there is a "Cancer" ... remove it!!! Talking abortion and the death penalty in the same breath really is not right. I think these should be separate topics... one is not the same as the other! Yes they both involve the termination of a life, but for morally and socialy different reasons. |
| Posted by: scottish2 17-Oct-2003, 09:24 PM |
| Well as far as abortion goes I don't see many running to the courts filing cases of murder against the mothers demanding the DP because she killed. |
| Posted by: Shadows 17-Oct-2003, 09:37 PM |
| I was not the one to put the 2 together!! I stated they should be separate topics ! I also could go on and say that all this artifical insemination and fertility drugs for those who can't have children naturally is wrong too... Would like to know how many of those children grow up into unlawful citizens...? Natural selection, has it's place, it is not nice to fool Mother Nature! |
| Posted by: scottish2 18-Oct-2003, 05:35 AM |
| Problem is you're trying to have your cake and eat it to. You are for killing certain people yet not others and then when someone wants to bring life into this world through help in the Scientific feild you don't like that either. artifical insemination and fertility drugs are just advancements in science and are not wrong. Should a couple that desparetly wants a child be deprived when they want to experiance the full child birth experiance? Problem is a civilization advances man kind is slowly trying to drag us all back into the middle ages. I for one and for going forward into the future not back into darkness. |
| Posted by: High Plains Drifter 18-Oct-2003, 11:54 AM | ||
Right on Scottish my man. |
| Posted by: scottish2 18-Oct-2003, 12:01 PM |
| Unfortunately I feel items like the DP are doing just that though dragging us back into the dark ages. What's next? Pistols at high noon in the middle of main street between the family members and the killer? |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 18-Oct-2003, 12:56 PM |
| Our Law Enforcement Officers are suppose to here just to prevent such acts from happening. But it still comes down to our Judicial System that keeps returning these criminals back to the streets. |
| Posted by: High Plains Drifter 18-Oct-2003, 08:47 PM |
| I can think of our penal system paroling criminals that shouldn't be on the streets, and our elected officials pardoning criminals that shouldn't be on the streets but could you please give me a specific example of convicted murderer being put on the streets by our judicial system? |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 18-Oct-2003, 09:30 PM | ||||
High Plains Drifter, I believed you asked for one example. This one took me 10 minutes to find and I am new to this Internet thing. |
| Posted by: High Plains Drifter 18-Oct-2003, 09:48 PM |
| It was a parole board (penal system) and not the judicial system that put the slime back on the street. Parole boards are not part of the Judicial. The Supreme Court decision that ruled the death penalty as it was practiced prior to 1972 to be cruel and unusual punishment did not require that convicted murderers be turned loose. |
| Posted by: Shadows 18-Oct-2003, 10:02 PM |
| The DP in the states is not taken lightly, there are very specific crimes that warrent it. It is used to remove from society those that are incoragable and unwelding to reform or social remorse. The taking of a life is not a minor matter , if you have ever lost a loved one to a violent crime your thoughts might be different... then maybe not. If you have a hang nail that causes you pain, you remove it, if you have a spliter that festers, you pluck it out, if you have a cancer you go to the Drs to have it removed or treated... so why is it so hard to remove a malfunctioning, festering, cancer of a person from society before it causes more harm? I stand my ground on support of the death penalty! |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 18-Oct-2003, 10:09 PM |
| High Plains Drifter, I beg your pardon and I stand corrected on this one example. I had assumed that the Parole Board was part of the Judicial System. And you know what Red Skelton says about the word "assume". I know you said that the Parole Board was part of the Penal System. But which Branch of Government does this fall under, may I ask? Executive Legislative or Judical However, I shall continue to look for the answer you are seeking. |
| Posted by: scottish2 19-Oct-2003, 04:48 AM | ||
| I think to some degree it sounds like it is up to the individual state. But it does look more like the executive branch then anything else. For instance this first state of Oklahoma is a mixed selection part by the governor and part by the states judicial members. http://www.ppb.state.ok.us/About/AboutBoard.htm But Deleware is chosen by the governor and confirmed by their senate http://www.state.de.us/parole/history.htm And Alaska is also the same chosen by the governor (Top of pg 3 of this PDF) http://www.correct.state.ak.us/corrections/Parole/handbook.pdf Now this one is interesting in that it clearly states though that most have considerable time in the justice system (working not getting convicted )
http://www.drc.state.oh.us/web/parboard.htm But overall it still looks like this might all be under the executive branch. |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 19-Oct-2003, 08:43 AM |
| After about four hours of searching on the Internet last night. I did not find where a Judge returned a murderer directly back to the streets. But I did find that the Legislative Branch creates the laws and the Judicial Branch enforces the laws, while the Executive Branch has the power to pardon. But did find in many cases. Where a Judge, including the Supreme Court Judges, would overturn a first degree murder to a second degree murder, by plea bargaining to the lesser charge, which will allow a non-life sentence. Even if they did receive a life sentence, they still could be paroled after 20 to 40 years. Case in point is the Yates woman in Texas. After murdering her five children by drowning them in a bathtub, received a life sentence in which she will be eligible for parole in 40 years. What about Charles Manson. Even thought he still sit in prison, he has come up for parol. Who is to say, that one of these days, he just might get his parole. No matter who is to blame, it still comes down to that the murderer is put back on the streets. |
| Posted by: High Plains Drifter 20-Oct-2003, 09:44 AM |
| I don't disagree that people get put back on the streets that shouldn't be but to blindly blame the judicial system isn't right either. An interesting thing is that conservatives are usually the ones to most often point to the judicial branch but currently in the federal judicial system the majority of the judges were appointed by Presidents Reagan and George H. W. Bush. Although it is a tragedy to put a murderer back on the street and have him or her kill again, it is just as tragic to execute a person who did not commit the crime for which he is being punished. I know this doesn't happen often but it does happen. You use the Yates woman for one of your examples. It was pretty well established that she was suffering from post partum depression when she drowned her kids. This doesn't justify what she did but it will not be a problem if she is paroled in forty years and she may not be. That Charles Manson has been up for parole and still sits in jail shows that in his case the system does work sometimes. |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 20-Oct-2003, 11:16 AM |
| And what happens when we have a group of people on the Parole Board who feels that Charles Manson has suffered enough, what then? |
| Posted by: Mayte2 20-Oct-2003, 02:32 PM |
| I think if anyone ever touched my kids I`d kill them myself. Give me the button to press, the syringe to inject, whatever it is that would make the b*st*rds be unable to walk this earth ever again. The thought of someone hurting my kids fills me with anger, dread and guilt that I wasn`t there to help them. I`ve seen the scripts of Lesley Anne Downey pleading for her life and for them to let her go back to her Mum. I hope the b*tch (Myra Hindley) rots in hell. |
| Posted by: maryellen 21-Oct-2003, 06:06 PM |
| The Yates woman and others like her are why we need to have Parenting licenses. Some people should not reproduce. They rape, beat, molest their own kids; but we need to get a license to drive a car or fish in the lake.... Doesn't make sense to me. |
| Posted by: scottish2 21-Oct-2003, 06:11 PM |
| While I may agree that some people should not reproduce it is also one thing that could never get passed becasue thet would be government getting way to involved in a persons PRIVATE life not that they don't already do this but that would surely cause the 2nd revelutionary war. |
| Posted by: Shadows 22-Oct-2003, 08:26 AM |
| The government is already involved in your parenting decissions... just spank your child in public and see what happens! They also allow artifical births to folks that nature has determined should not have kids! See my reply above ( about 2 pages I think.). |
| Posted by: RavenWing 22-Oct-2003, 11:09 AM | ||
What horrifying idea. Parenting Licenses? Sounds too Orwellian for my tastes. The right to bear children is not a something that should be granted by some government official. That is truly a horrifying idea. *shudder*  |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 22-Oct-2003, 02:53 PM | ||
I am going to have to think on this one (pause) NO!!! It is bad enough for the Government to CONTROL every thing else, but not Parenting. When my wife applied for her Day Care License. They were trying to impose Rules and Regulations within my own household. Such as: At no time was Alcohol or Tobacco allowed to be on the premises. I told them when the children was there, I did not have a problem with that, but when there were no children in my house then my house is my house and NOT UNDER THEIR CONTROL. After a couple of weeks they complied. This only goes to show that they want to Control every part of our lives. And a Parent's License would be another step to who knows what. I say enough is enough |
| Posted by: scottish2 22-Oct-2003, 03:14 PM |
| You should all look for a book entitled "The Death of Common Sense" -How law is suffocating America written by Philip K. Howard I just started reading it and chapter 1 starts out with a story of how back in the Winter of 88 Mother Teresa tried to buy 2 burned out buildings from the city in order to rebuild them into homes for the homeless. Well they got going to had to go to a lot of different hearings as no one group could sell them because they were city property. Well they finally got them and then the city government stepped in and said they had to also install elevators. Since finances were not alloted for this extra $100,000 cost the project never even got off the ground. Now tell me if you were homeless would you care if you had to climb a couple flights of stairs (building had 4 floors in it) and also have a roof over your head and a nice clean place to eat as one floor was also going to be a soup kitchen. Yet the city would not budge kept saying it's the law it's the law and now (actually then unsure about now) but this never came off so now these homeless have no elevator and no roof or soup kitchen. How crazy is this society becoming??????????? |
| Posted by: Richard Bercot 22-Oct-2003, 06:18 PM |
| I have often said that I was going to start a Party called Common Sense. However Several of my friends said that it would be a mute point because people today do not have any Common Sense what so ever. I do know there are a few of us out there, someplace, I hope. But I am not giving up an Man Kind as a whole, yet. The problem that I am seeing, is the Special Interest Groups throwing the All Mighty Dollar around in front of our so called Legislators, then they can not make a good judgement call. When the Dollar diminishes Common Sense, that is when you know we are in trouble. |
| Posted by: scottish2 22-Oct-2003, 06:32 PM |
| Well for the most part it seems our rowdy bunch is at least using their common sense. I know I am on several tax boards and it's amazing how stupid some people are you given them fact and they give back pure fiction and think that will shut down the truth LOL |
| Posted by: maryellen 22-Oct-2003, 06:47 PM |
| okay. perhaps I should've clarified. the parenting licenses idea were tongue in cheek. But anyone that has worked for Department of Social Services would know exactly what I meant. |
| Posted by: Shadows 22-Oct-2003, 07:00 PM |
| My wife has always said that on 9/11 more then the planes destroying buildings happened... she says DUMB DUST was spread world wide... I tend to agree! The human race is heading for total control by one group or one person, mark my words it will happen in your life time! We have become so gulable and complacent anything can happen and we would just shrug and say .."that is life ! " AARGGGH!!!! |
| Posted by: scottish2 22-Oct-2003, 08:09 PM |
Well I have become gullable but I agree the majorty has between the death of common sense and those unwilling to stand up for themselves it is heading toward a New World Oder (NWO) and it smells like  |
| Posted by: maryellen 23-Oct-2003, 05:23 PM |
ewww. you stink.  |
| Posted by: Catriona 24-Oct-2003, 04:48 AM | ||
Ahem, Mayte.... she did! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2481193.stm |
| Posted by: scottish2 24-Oct-2003, 05:07 AM | ||||
And this is how prison is suppose to work the US needs to take a lessons from this
Life means life not 2-30 then out. |