Wake Up America!, Watch and think!

Oh don't worry. There will come a day when all organized religion will be outlawed. I'm not going to discuss here why.

I agree that religion is mostly the problem. Our constitution prohibits the promotion or regulation of any religion. In thinking of our more recent engagements I do not see religion as the reason.

I watched a pbs show on the history of Judaism and it would be hard to find a more blood thirsty group. They spared no man, woman, child or domesticated animal in a battle. They were isolated from thier families for a period of "cleansing" after a battle. It allowed them to come down from their killing high before associating with the rest of society.

I am a practicing Catholic and my church has been a prolific offender in causing wars. They have mellowed over the centuries but if my priest ever tells me I am to attack and kill those of another religion, I am gone as is my money. I suspect they will miss the money more than me.

I believe power and money ruins people, governments and religions. It explains most of the stupid actions taken by my country.

If religion were outlawed, humanity would form groups of like thinking people and the practice of war would start again.

Slàinte,    

Patch       

I didn't watch the video's but read the text. Upon what part of that do you base your comments?

Iran has no nuclear weapons. Iran has not had a military nuclear program since at least 2003. Iran's air power's next to nonexistent, and it's navy is really nothing more than a coast guard. It spends less on defense than Singapore or Sweden. This is all from the latest National Intelligence Estimate on Iran; the one the Bush Administration suppressed last summer while repeatedly lying to the American people by telling them the exact opposite, trying to drum up support for yet another unprovoked war.

I've not only "taken the time" to read the Q'uran, but I've taken the time to read the Bible as well. If I take passages literally and out of context, I can Biblically justify incest, child abuse and murder (Judges 11:29-40, Isaiah 13:16, Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9) slavery, rape, murder and ethnic cleansing (Exodus 21:7-11, Deuteronomy 3, Numbers 31:7-18, Joshua 6, Zechariah 14:1-2, and Judges 21), and yes, murdering "infidels"; people of other religions (2 Kings 10:18-27).
This is precisely what you're doing with your "interpretation" of Islam!

If you do, don't get your feelings hurt when others call it exactly what is is; racist hate speech.

My feelings are not hurt at all. I also respect your right to your beliefs. I do believe you are swinging a little "wide and loose" with the borderline hate crime statement. I probably am not as familiar with the bible as you are. After 9-11 I began to read the Koran (Quoran) and I have yet to come up with any "interpretation" that would eliminate me as an infidel. The description of those who are infidels is quite straight forward and not open to any interpretation that I can find. I will not trust someone who believes Allah has commanded him to kill me. My knowledge of the bible is that it was written in a manner as to be open to interpretation. The Koran as written by Mohammed covers virtually every aspect of islamic life. There used to be a site called "Ask the Imam" on the net which was very enlightening. It is blocked now, maybe by my government. I may look to see if any others pop up.

Slàinte,    

Patch       

You the man Camac! You the man!

JC

[QUOTE=Emmet,23-May-2008, 01:14 PM] I didn't watch the video's but read the text. Upon what part of that do you base your comments?[/QUOTE]

Iran has no nuclear weapons. Iran has not had a military nuclear program since at least 2003. Iran's air power's next to nonexistent, and it's navy is really nothing more than a coast guard. It spends less on defense than Singapore or Sweden. This is all from the latest National Intelligence Estimate on Iran; the one the Bush Administration suppressed last summer while repeatedly lying to the American people by telling them the exact opposite, trying to drum up support for yet another unprovoked war.



I've not only "taken the time" to read the Q'uran, but I've taken the time to read the Bible as well. If I take passages literally and out of context, I can Biblically justify incest, child abuse and murder (Judges 11:29-40, Isaiah 13:16, Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9) slavery, rape, murder and ethnic cleansing (Exodus 21:7-11, Deuteronomy 3, Numbers 31:7-18, Joshua 6, Zechariah 14:1-2, and Judges 21), and yes, murdering "infidels"; people of other religions (2 Kings 10:18-27).
This is precisely what you're doing with your "interpretation" of Islam!



If you do, don't get your feelings hurt when others call it exactly what is is; racist hate speech. [/QUOTE]
You the man too Emmet! You the man too!

JC

What do you mean exactly, by saying we have built it? In saying we have failed by not preventing something (and exactly what were we supposed to prevent, and more important, how?), you go to something we built? I'm not following that one.

You won't hear about detention camps or associated atrocities -- even if we build them within the borders instead of jobbing them out offshore; most people are content not to be told, and the authorities aren't keen on reporting their activities.

Where does vigilance go next, for you personally, when you think you see something and you think you are sure?

It has nothing to do with prevention. We earned the hatred like building a shelter, puting it together brick by brick with our actions. We have set our economy (and the worlds) on a path to disaster with our actions, not failure to act though we had some world wide help with that one. That is how we "built this impending calamity." I may not survive but I will maintain vigilence. Those who are willing to let the govt care for them are the "sheep" My position through out my life has been that of a "leader" and that I will be untill I die.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Well put Patch. Some people refuse to see the real danger until it's too late.

Just like you Nova, I believe in America too, but then, I’m not about to say; “my country right or wrong”, because Americans shouldn’t even have to pose that question.
You know its one thing to think of ourselves as being, a good and righteous country, (witch is what I used to believed growing up), and it’s another to actually be. Besides, that’s not for us to decide, that’s for others to decide, which is exactly why we’re in the fix we’re in now.
Oh I know what you’re thinking, “but America is still the best country out there”, which I would agree with, (at the moment), but not by much, and not for much longer!
The bottom line is. Instead of America lifting everyone else up, we have allowed ourselves to be dumb down to the point of embarrassment, much less pride, (because of the blatant hypocrisy festering in this country).
By the way, I may be a progressive liberal, (which I’m proud of), but I’m not about to stand by quietly while bring lied too, (as you well know), and I’m certainly not about to cover my eyes, and “cower”. When I see a clear and present danger, to what I believe America should be striving to be, (instead of going backwards), even if that danger comes from with in America itself?
In our hearts, we all know who, and what we are, and I know I’m not alone, in my thinking.
Here’s another fine mess you’ve gotten me into, Stanley.
JC

That was Stoirmeil; the term I used was "hate speech", and I don't consider your posts "borderline" at all; As Lady of Avalon observed, they're clearly racist and bigoted.

"Hate speech. Speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against a person or group of people based on their race, gender, age, ethnicity, nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, disability, language ability, moral or political views, socioeconomic class, occupation or appearance, mental capacity and any other distinction-liability. The term covers written as well as oral communication and some forms of behaviors in a public setting."

Just because you have a right to free speech doesn't necessarily mean this community has any responsibility to give you a soapbox to express it from.

If you interpret my statements to mean that I support bush and his "war games" you are wrong. I personally feel the time has long passed when we should have concentrated on protecting our own land. We are not the worlds police and everyone does not want democracy! If we have surplus food I am willing to share it with those who do not. We do not , however, have the means to eliminate world poverty and hunger. To the extent that we can help, disaster aid is fine also. As for Iran, bush will never get authorization to go there. His credibility went to zip with Iraq. If Iran ever gets close to nuclear capability, it will be between them and Israel it is not our concern until Iran has the capability to fire missiles that can hit us.

The Koran explicitly describes who the infidels are and lists them. It also states that Allah commands that Muslims are TO kill the infidels. It does not say "may kill" or "should kill". I do not find any wiggle room.

Slàinte,    

Patch       

My religion does not teach me to kill any one today. I live 90 miles from a Mosque that does. That is the difference!

Slàinte,    

Patch       

Going back and forth here only re enforces the knowledge that any discussion on politics and or religion, is definatly pointless. Both side will have their own beliefs in how it should be and they won't waver no matter what.

Also, if this is hate speech, as Emmit was so kind to post the defination. One could say some of us are guilty of it in the way the President has been talked about most of the time in here. As well as some of you love to bash Christians. It seems like Christians can't say anything in America without being accused something. If a Christian complains about someone harrassing them, 9 times out of 10 it falls on deaf ears. Now a Muslim complains, it seems like it makes prime time news immediatly.

"Just because you have a right to free speech doesn't necessarily mean this community has any responsibility to give you a soapbox to express it from."

In addition, if this is propagnda, then what do you call "Loose Change" and other 9/11 conspiracy theory movies?

Funny how I'm basically being told to watch how I point my finger.

Nova Scotian;

You are right in that society does not have to provide a soapbox nor does society have to listen . It does howerver have to protect the indivuals right to preach. Whether it be "Loose Change or Wake up America" it is all propoganda put out by someone or some organization with an agenda. Scream loud enough and long enough and the Lie becomes the Truth. I for one am not telling you not to point your finger I do howerver beseech you to be careful it has a nail on the end.



Camac.

Nova Scotian,

This is what I meant in my statement about this is not welcome here in my opinion.

There is nothing wrong about discussing the subjects altough delicate about politics and religion. But when one takes a good look at what YOU found, well it is propaganda and I think that the founder of this site did not intended it as a door for some people that search the net with this kind of negativity to use it to send messages of doom and masquerade it as a topic for discussion.
When in reality it is a message you want to send to people to look at it and realize that a threat is real.
To me this is not right.

LOA

Nova Scotian,

This is what I meant in my statement about this is not welcome here in my opinion.

There is nothing wrong about discussing the subjects altough delicate about politics and religion. But when one takes a good look at what YOU found, well it is propaganda and I think that the founder of this site did not intended it as a door for some people that search the net with this kind of negativity to use it to send messages of doom and masquerade it as a topic for discussion.
When in reality it is a message you want to send to people to look at it and realize that a threat is real.
To me this is not right.

LOA

You speak solid truth, milady when you say this about our beloved VPs favorite website. I pray daily for GWB's continued good health. Without that, I fear that the November elections will not happen....

I am not sure that his good health will insure November elections. With the Patriot Act and the presidents new powers to declare martial law, bad things could happen.

Slàinte,    

Patch