Odd Medieval Stuff, different cultural events and music

[Herrerano]

Greetings all from your newest member,

As I was sitting last night, umm, thinking and enjoying a little of that golden beverage that so aids the thought process, it occured to me that I would like to pose a question to the good members of this board. But, being of Scottish descent, and consequently suffering from that affliction so common to many of us, that is not being able to actually get to the point of anything and so rather then risk saying anything we end up saying nothing, I don't know exactly how to ask what I would like to.

First it would probably be helpful to explain a little about myself. I have lived in the Republic of Panama for about ten years. I live out in the interior quite a distance even from Panama City. The part of the country I live in is sort of the center of the folkloric and musical traditions of this country. By far the most popular music down here is called 'musica tipica' which could best be described as this countries version of country music. Only it is really more at a stage where it is still very closely linked to the very traditional folk type music of the country. (a little hard to explain, sorry)

Anyway, there are also a lot of events which take place that seem to me rooted in very traditional forms of musical expression. One of these is the 'cantadera'. The cantadera is an event where two singers will start, first one and then the other will answer. The words are entirely impromptu, sung in a 'decima'. (This means it is in verse, very stylized, following the following rules: Ten lines of verse, each verse composed of eight syllables, and each line is subject to some very strict rules of rhyme.) What is sung is usually of a kind of a comic nature, sometimes sort of insulting to the other singer and when the one ten-line-verse is complete, then the other singer will respond, also singing in the previously described manner. (As you can imagine, each participant must not only be able to sing, but also be very quick witted and knowledgable about whatever the other singer is singing about.)

The singers are usually backed up by a guitarist, and often a fiddle. The form and tune of the music is sort of a standard used for this type of singing and is essential to set the mood and rythym of the singing. (Here is a webpage with a description of the Decima, unfortunately it is in Spanish, but if you are fortunate enough to have a little language skill it is a much better explanation then I have been able to give. http://www.geocities.com/decimas/Que.htm


The point of this is that having been a fiddle player at one time (traditional Scottish tunes mostly), I find this extremely interesting. Some of this music seems to bleed across from one culture to another and often I will hear a musical phrase that is exactly the same as a traditional musical verse in a celtic tune. Sometimes for an instant and sometimes for almost an entire song. (Incidentally, mazurkas are fairly common here, and are even called mazurkas, I once heard a fiddle player in Los Pozos, province of Herrera play a tune that was a dead ringer for Off to California, only in waltz time).

I am just curious if anyone else has had any similar experience or knowledge in other parts of the world. I guess the point of this is that I would like to open up a little discussion of different forms of musical expression in the world and sort of relate them to traditional Celtic music. Another example from here would be a thing called a Tamborito, this is perfomed by ladies with a lead being sung, and then a chorus joining in for the repeats. This is accompanied by a small, homemade type drum and clapping. Rythym wise it reminds me a lot of recordings I have heard of waulking songs. Even down to the style of the voice and rythym. (Only in Spanish of course.)

Well, sorry for the long post here, my fingers are now crying in agony from typing so much and so as I close I would just once again say that I think a discussion on this might be sort of interesting.


Leo

[free2Bme]

Well I know absolutely nothing about this type of music you are describing, but I have never allowed ignorance to stop me before, so why should I let it stop me now?

Being a member of the Society of Creative Anachronisms, and lover of all things medieval (except the Inquisition and Witch Hunts - Yechh - oh and the Plague - Double Yechh) I am intrigued by your questioning the origins of the Panamanian music and its semblance to Celtic traditional music. I am going to hazard to guess that the music is probably of Spanish origin, and being that the Spanish Conquistadores were the first to discover and explore Panama , then I am guessing that the music was imported to Panama through them. Celtic music was known throughout Europe during the Middle Ages, and I would not doubt that they had a great deal of influence on other musical cultures.

Now how is that for a shot in the dark? I want to learn more about this music that you speak of, too!

[Herrerano]

Yes Janet, I think you are absolutely right about being imported from Spain, etc. The URL that I included actually says as much (almost in the same words that you did) and says that it is a form of music from the middle ages, originating in Spain. There is no way to really describe it, and sadly it is not one of the most popular types of world music out there so most people outside of Panama have never heard it. I have a link to a radio staion that plays a lot of 'musica tipica' and you can often hear some Decima on that station, the problem is that unless you knew which was which most folks wouldn't really recognize when a Decima came on unless they were already somewhat familiar with it. (If anyone expresses interest I will be happy to post the link).

I did find another website, this one about the Tamborito and it is in English. If you have speakers on I would advise you to turn them off before opening this page since there is some really irritating midi type salsa music playing in the background. The music that plays when this page opens IS NOT an example of Tamborito. The tamborito has a very medieval sound and is really neat to hear and see the dance.

Just as a side note, the explanation given on this website is concerning the Tamborito in the little town of Pesé, Herrera. This is the town I live in and it is quite small. However it is also the location of one of the three distilleries in Panama and the one located in Pesé are the makers of Seco Herrerano which is sort of considered the national drink.

Leo

[Herrerano]

Gee, that's the problem with getting long winded, here is the link for the site about the Tamborito in Pesé.


http://www.angelfire.com/tx/CZAngelsSpace/.../Tamborito.html


I got so excited there I forgot all about the link.

Leo

[Aon_Daonna]

Welcome Herrerano,

I don't actually know something about this kind of music but I have a galician friend and my best friend lived in Columbia for half his life. I've set those to on your question and they will try to find something out. If I get results I will post them.

Regarding Panama: Did you know that the Scots tried to annect Panama as their Colony in the 18th (or 19th I have to look it up) century?

[Herrerano]

QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ May 31 2003, 07:11 PM)

Welcome Herrerano, I don't actually know something about this kind of music but I have a galician friend and my best friend lived in Columbia for half his life. I've set those to on your question and they will try to find something out. If I get results I will post them. Regarding Panama: Did you know that the Scots tried to annect Panama as their Colony in the 18th (or 19th I have to look it up) century?

Regarding Panama: Did you know that the Scots tried to annect Panama as their Colony in the 18th (or 19th I have to look it up) century?[QUOTE]


Yes, I think you are referring to the Darien expedition. Here is a link to a site about that.

http://www.kinnaird.net/darien.htm

A really interesting story, with a tragic ending. Of course, that probably had little to do with anything concerning music in these parts but still an interesting part of history. I have always been a little curious as to how many Scots might have been members of Henry Morgans raid on Panama as well.

Leo

[Aon_Daonna]

Yup, I meant that I once read a book about Scottish Tragedies, and this was under them. As well as the Tay-bridge-disaster and other things.
Well, since it has nothing to do with the music I put it under regarding Panama.
I don't have news for you yet, but I keep my friends on it.