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|Celtic Radio Community > Polls > Scottish Independence|
|Posted by: CelticRadio 14-Apr-2014, 12:41 AM|
Around 40 percent of Scots plan to vote for independence in this year's referendum, according to a poll on Thursday which showed a three-point rise in support for an end to the country's 307-year-old-union with England.
The poll, carried out by Panelbase, showed that 45 percent of those questioned intended to vote against Scottish independence, a decline of two points from the last equivalent survey.
Scotland, which has a population of just over 5 million and whose territorial waters are the source of much of the North Sea's oil and gas, will vote on September 18 on whether to leave the UK.
Do you think ending 307 years of Union between Scotland and England is the right thing to do? Will this result in a greater Scotland or perhaps result in economic disaster for both Scotland and the U.K? And finally, did Mel Gibson play a role in this independence plan with his 1995 movie "Braveheart"
Read more information about this independence movement here:
|Posted by: haynes9 14-Apr-2014, 07:21 AM|
| Great topic, Paul.
I have my own opinion, but of course I would defer my own thoughts to whatever the Scottish people decide. If it was up to me, I would like to see an independent Scotland. Now, to be sure, I have no idea what the overall economic impact of such a move would be. Would Scotland continue with the British Pound Sterling or opt to go the Euro route? Does Scotland currently benefit from its ties to London or is its economic growth inhibited?
It is easy for me to say "go independent," but I would hope that the Scottish people have done due diligence as they make this decision. I am sure it will be a fairly close vote no matter what the outcome will be. I'll be watching for sure!
|Posted by: camac 14-Apr-2014, 01:54 PM|
|Personally being a Scot by birth I would like to see Scotland Independent but before jumping from one bad situation to another I think Scotland and her people should think long and hard about the possibility of staying in the Union but with some significant political and economics changes. There, after all only 5 million in Scotland and a few other European country with the same population and situation with more in the diaspora than on home soil have had a difficult time since their independence ie. Croatia.|
|Posted by: MacFive 14-Apr-2014, 06:19 PM|
| This is a really tough subject. Coming from a States prospect I think alot of the Scottish drive for independence was brought to light by Mel Gibson's 1995 Braveheart movie.
By as with Hollywood, the truth is probably not as glamorous as the reality.
I think there is great pride among the Scottish peoples and perhaps there is some justification in their desire to break away from the United Kingdom.
Not claiming to be an expert on this subject, but everything now a days is driven by money and I would take a long close look at those political forces that are pushing this referendum to make sure that there is no secret agenda of profit to benefit a select few who will reap the benefits of Scottish resources.
To be very honest with you, I think splitting apart the countries is going to reduce their standing and influence in the world. 300 years is an awfully long time for their shared histories. Perhaps a good outcome would be for Scotland to gain more say in the dealings of the U.K. and better financial support for their programs.
In fact, I would go as far as to say that the entire British Isles should seriously consider thinking about what they are trying to accomplish.
Here in America, we would never consider breaking away from the U.S. Such as New England becoming it's own country or California.
The question of Ireland, Scotland, England, Wales, Isle of Mann is of shared histories and of it's people rising to a level of awareness where they can put behind their age old differences and truly become one people.
The benefits of social, economic and military corporation would reap huge benefits if they could just put their differences aside!
|Posted by: Shadows 16-Apr-2014, 11:34 AM|
| Paul you are wrong about the US, there are 3 states that have referendums on their ballots for succsion.
As for Scotland, it once was sovern until it was taken by force from it's people. Why not again?
|Posted by: camac 16-Apr-2014, 02:12 PM|
|Shadows I hate to admit that in some respects I am not up on the History of Great Britain but it is my understanding that the Kingdom Of Scotland and the Kingdom of England through commissioners set by both agreed to join and become one in May 1707.|
|Posted by: Shadows 17-Apr-2014, 12:23 PM|
|Yes cam but after how many centuries of invassions and battles?|
|Posted by: JACOBITE 18-Apr-2014, 11:06 PM|
| Some interesting comments.
As to the union. Scotland did not have a vote to willingly join the union. There was rioting in the streets when it came about but in those days power was held by a few men who were paid handsomely for selling Scotland's freedom.That and the fact that Scottish trade was being badly affected by the English blocking Scotland and an army ready to invade didn't really make it democratic.
As for our size. Scotland would be a small rich country much like Norway or Denmark.I know some countries had problems on gaining independence like when Yugoslavia broke up but this is not the same situation or anything like it
I know some especially in the US look at the influence of Braveheart. That was a film that was out many years ago. It was mostly fiction with some basis on facts. There have been Scots campaigning for independence since the day we lost our independence. The SNP have been around for 80 years ,Braveheart maybe got some Scots many years ago to read more about Wallace but it will not influence the vote in Sept.
We are not splitting a country apart. Scotland is a country,one of the oldest in the world we just want to have decisions about Scotland made in Scotland. We want to retain the money made in Scotland in Scotland,we just want to be a normal country again.
I reckon you can tell I'll be voting YES.
|Posted by: Felurian 19-Apr-2014, 07:47 AM|
| Imperialism by any other name smells just as rank.
What's the true difference between Russian, English, German or American imperialism - or any other nation's? Why should one nation be subject to another? One people to another?
|Posted by: Robert Phoenix 19-Apr-2014, 04:00 PM|
|I'm hoping they do because of the fact that I don't like the direction England has been taking lately. Just seems to be getting worse and worse over there.|
|Posted by: RebeccaAnn 19-Apr-2014, 07:21 PM|
| England stole Scotland and their rights. Many fought and died for freedom that was taken from them. England was over bearing and just took what they wanted. What became the United States was under British rule. It was the king of England and his rules that brought about our Revolutionary War. Taxes without representation. No representation in government or say as to what we could and couldn't do. It was the same with Scotland, Ireland and Wales. Only certain landowners had rights that were recognized and the commoner was forced to accept or be killed or imprisoned.
The Scottish Highlanders were put in the front lines of battle because they are the best fighters. But when the battle was over they tended to be forgotten.
It is much the same as we are struggling with in the States. Government is too big and the people are forgotten. There are many states that are for splitting. We must take back our government. Our government is suppose to be of the people, by the people and for the people. Our Constitution is the law of the land. All people have certain unalliable rights given to us by God. We have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Everyone does no matter where they live. This goes for Scotland.
Scotland should have the right to rule itself just as each state should. Many of the states have movements to break-up.
Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Ilse of Mann and England I think should be free to govern themselves and what happens in their own boarders just as are states are suppose to. But as to outside each state (foriegn policy) they should remain the United Kingdom and work together just as we need to remain United. United we stand strong against outside invaders.
The choice is Scotland's to make. If I was Scotland I would vote for state's rights. I rule my own state not England. I would stay part of the UK and England would govern over forign affairs. All the countries including Ireland need to stand united as one nation in these troubled times. The UK is a small nation and can easily be overrun if they do not stand united.
|Posted by: Fin McCool 20-Apr-2014, 02:25 AM|
I think you are right.Is there a true independence in this world ? 307 years of common history is a lot - think twice !
|Posted by: ladysharlyne 20-Apr-2014, 02:33 AM|
| It is nice to see the support of others for this either way but you sad because only scots living in scotland can vote. None living elsewhere can and none living in England, Wales, Northern Ireland, etc can vote. Kind of narrows it down a lot doesn't it. I think scots anywhere in the world that were born in Scotland or have naturalization should be able to vote for Scotland.
Just my idea and yes I am an American living in Scotland but born and raised in the states. I have lived here 13 years and my father was a scot from Cromarty but not married to mum. my husband is a full scot and can vote but I cannot vote. I do not have 'British' Citizenship only indefinite leave to stay.
|Posted by: cb750kman 20-Apr-2014, 11:09 PM|
| Scotland was strong armed into the union of the crowns. And was sold out by its own . Read the history.
I know its not on the same level , but Germany had a common history with western Europe for 5 years.
There is Far Too much money involved .
|Posted by: danthewightman 21-Apr-2014, 06:35 PM|
| I vote Yes... Ireland sought to obtain their independent around 1914 .. (did they get it??)
The issue is, To have compete "sovereignty" Scotland has to cut any ties
with the IMF. Go and watch the video called Life and Debt... this is an excellent
example of how the IMF straggles the life out of a country.
another one is the Panama Deception . this documentary will show so much corruption and about (tricky Dick been awhile since I've seen it of I may be confused of what one) and after this 2 more most important that all ties together. the Zeitgeist Addendum in particular the economic hit man
and this will substantiate/a firm the Zeitgeist Adden.
The Century Of The Self -
you can't find the whole series on youtube so here are some links
the one of importance is The Engineering of Consent (about the propaganda
or torrent it http://www.bing.com/search?q=The%20Century%20Of%20The%20Self%20%20torrent&pc=conduit&ptag=AF754AF1322BA499B8FF&form=CONBDF&conlogo=CT3210127
|Posted by: chieftan 21-Apr-2014, 06:35 PM|
Take Independence, Take the oil & gas reserves that belong to Scotland. Sell 50% to the US, England, and Japan. Use the revenue to bolster our academics & technology to place
" Knowledge is power"
|Posted by: chieftan 21-Apr-2014, 08:22 PM|
| Vote yes for Scottish independence. Take the oil, Gas,& mineral leases & sell the rights to develop the wells for royalties to pay for tuition of promising students in the highly advanced schedules of aeronautical engineering, Geophysics, medical research, Ion Propulsion, Knowledge is power used in the correct fashion. The Yoke of English propaganda can be thrown off with great accomplishment, Enlightening the Scotsman who want to lead Scotland into a new and productive future.
Throw off the foreign influence. Knowledge is Power and beneficial to all.
|Posted by: danthewightman 22-Apr-2014, 10:42 AM|
"Why should one nation be subject to another? One people to another?"
Because , some egalitarian - nihilist don't believe in "equality" that all are equal in their
station and standing on the land and by the creator, and thus believe they are above others , by dogma belief of divine right via pedigree, OR , because Might makes right, till someone mightier comes along. One of the oldies codes is "The Mighty shall not oppress the week" .. Thus the week will 'organize' themselves and shall eventually, "... when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security".
|Posted by: MacFive 22-Apr-2014, 02:17 PM|
| My main worry about splitting up the Union would probably be Militarily. What does this mean? And will America step in and put the brakes on this as some articles have suggested.
I think there is an advantage that the former commonwealths of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland and Scotland remain in close coordination. With the events of the world recently there is an advantage of these Allies remaining together in somesort of working framework.
While independence of Scotland sounds like a good idea, is it possible that it will result in diminished world roles for both Scotland and the U.K. Would it be better to find an alternative solution or is the writing already on the wall?
|Posted by: Siorai1922 22-Apr-2014, 03:47 PM|
| I spent the better part of the last decade in Scotland and, whilst my American opinion doesn't really count for much, I think Scotland should regain its independence. Their natural resources (e.g., North Sea crude) are exploited and of the taxes paid by the Scots, very little goes to the Scottish government; most of it stays in London's Exchequer.
The Scottish Pound no longer holds the value that it once did: British Pound exchanges at a higher rate than the Scottish - although buying either one costs consumers the same amount. This move to devalue the Scottish Pound is, in my opinion, a move on the part of London to discourage the Scots from printing their own money.
The subtext is a snub and a subtle reminder of who's "boss."
There will definitely be repercussions on both sides of the border, there's no denying that. However, if both sides will "play nice," the outcome will be a benefit to all concerned - particularly the Scots.
|Posted by: JACOBITE 22-Apr-2014, 11:38 PM|
| As far as military goes Scotland has seen its share of the defence budget cut. We have had air fields shut and army numbers cut. The Russian navy has twice sent ships into Scottish waters in recent years and it has been up to fishing boats and the Norwegian navy to keep an eye on them as there are no naval surface ships in Scotland.
Scotland has no wish to try and claim to be a major player in the world.Our role will be like Norway or Denmark ,quietly efficent.
Scotland currently has no world role. Many people across the world do not even know we exist. To many we are English. I'm not claiming we are going to burst on the world stage and take it by storm but we will finally have a place at the UN and the EU we'll even be allowed our own Olympic team.
|Posted by: camac 23-Apr-2014, 01:42 PM|
|I read in the papers all this talk about Scottish Independence and other members going on about how the Scots should be free. Reminds me of the Separatists here in Canada. The province of Quebec keeps electing the PQ into [power every few years and we go through threats of referendum. It's getting to the point where the rest of Canada is sick and tired of it . Even when the PQ manages to hold a referendum they get beaten but it doesn't stop them from trying and trying and trying ad nauseum. One of theses days the R.O.C. is going to say leave and don't let the screen door slap you in the ass on the way out.|
|Posted by: Shadows 23-Apr-2014, 03:14 PM|
| They do have the right to request that as does Scotland!
If folks are feed up with the way the governmemt is treating them then go for it.
Look at what is happening in other parts of the world right now but that is a different topic, this is about Scotland..
|Posted by: BryanMPyke 23-Apr-2014, 07:35 PM|
|While Scotland should be sovereign unto itself, we are all interdependent. So, Yes, to the Vote and a reminder that no (hu)man is an island unto themselves.|
|Posted by: MacFive 27-Apr-2014, 03:26 PM|
It truly is amazing how little is known about Scotland, but in how mighty they have shaped the world. True to the Scottish persona; sometimes it is the quiet people that sit back and listen that when they speak it has a great impact.
Unforunately with world events Europe may have to play a greater role militarily including Scotland. We are entering very dangereous times with the rising of China Nationalism, Russia Nationals and the former Turkish empire of Iran/Syria. And what about North Korea?
The Western Culture is under attack from all sides and as we say in the states, United we Stand, Divided we Fall....
The one thing that really bothers me about the drive for Scottish Independence is that it is being touted by Vladimir Putin himself and one must ask what his motives are for that which certainly can not be good...
|Posted by: JACOBITE 02-May-2014, 03:47 AM|
| You may find this interesting MacFive
|Posted by: Reb83 08-May-2014, 09:07 AM|
|Ha.... the United States is notorious anti-secessionist! After all, it waged an entire war to keep the wealth of the South under its taxation thumb. It is very telling that the US has remained silent on this matter since, they are very good at trying to mind other people's business. However, the Scottish people must do what is in their best interest... though I think independence would reenforce their own unique culture.|
|Posted by: haynes9 13-Aug-2014, 02:16 PM|
| Spoke with a Scotsman that works at a bank out here on the Navajo Rez. I asked what he thought about the independence vote.
He was not very encouraged. From his viewpoint, he would love to see it happen, but he feels like the fear of change will keep it from happening. He also feels, probably rightfully so, that if it does not happen now, it will not happen in his lifetime (and he is fairly young).
As an American, I know that in the great scheme of things that it is none of my business, but I do hope Scotland votes to break away. What that will mean for Northern Ireland in the future, I have no idea.
|Posted by: haynes9 03-Sep-2014, 05:34 PM|
| Looks like the "yes" vote is gaining ground on the "no" vote. This thing may go down to the wire.
It will be interesting to see how both sides approach the campaign during these last two weeks.
|Posted by: apAidan 08-Sep-2014, 03:31 PM|
| While I'm of Scots decent and am an American (several of my ancestors ended up in the Colonies via Ireland after the 45 in time for the Revolution), I think that this is a situation that has a great number of ramifications that people haven't really thought about.
I haven't read the referendum question, but does it only undo the union between the kingdoms or does it also sever the crowns? If if doesn't, then the Scots find themselves a independent country while sharing a monarch with the English. Queen Elizabeth II becomes Queen Elizabeth II / I much as James was King James II / VII. If you sever the crowns, who takes the throne? Which of the various Stuart claimants or do you do a worldwide dna search to find a descendant of one of the other royal houses? Or do you have yet another referendum and chuck out the monarchy altogether?
Does the newly independent Scotland become a nuclear power? Are they a member of the EU or do they have to apply for admittance? The same for NATO, though the relevance of that organization is becoming more in doubt as time goes on it's still a question that needs to be answered. Do they even want to be a part of either body?
What happens when Putin discovers seven Russian expats living in Dundee and he decides that Tayside needs to go the way of Crimea? Silly question, but what keeps an eternal squabbling between London and Edinburgh over various border districts as to which are Scots and which are English? Me, I'm worried about the President of Mexico claiming San Diego and Los Angeles if this Crimea precedent is accepted so it's probably something the Scots should worry about.
Speaking of who invades what, what parts of the UK military devolves to Scottish control? Which treaties that Scotland is currently a part of do they honor or do they follow in the steps of the old DDR and declare they don't have to honor any of them since 'they' didn't sign them. And this isn't just military treaties, but things like international copyright accords and the like.
And if Scotland bolts, is Wales far behind? Mercia? East Anglia? Do all seven of the kingdoms that coalesced into England make a break for it?
As someone of Scot decent, the concept of an independent Scotland is attractive and something good, but I don't believe anyone has addressed the other issues other than politicians saying 'we'll work that out after the vote'. Wouldn't it be better if people knew exactly what they were voting for before they did it? Or is this a matter of 'we have to vote for it to find out what's in it'?
Good luck and Godspeed to all of the Scots in the coming days as the day of the vote approaches
|Posted by: Robert Phoenix 13-Sep-2014, 06:44 PM|
| Well Groundskeeper Willie from "The Simpsons" has chimed in with his response!
|Posted by: MacFive 15-Sep-2014, 05:02 AM|
| Here is an open letter piece addressed "Dear Scotland." I think it addresses a lot of the same issues and concerns that Canada experienced with the Quebec Independence movement. Having been there during that time period, it was not even safe to be an English speaker in some parts.
While emotionally a free and independent Scotland seems like a wonderful thing, ripping apart the United Kingdom at its heart seems like it would put Scots at a disadvantage and diminished influence over the wrong term. As I have heard many people from England saying their "Grandmother" is from Scotland - it seems the two countries share more in common than not. 300 years is an awefully long time....
Read the whole article, it is a very interesting take...
As we say in the States, United we stand - Divided we Fall...
|Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 17-Sep-2014, 06:07 PM|
| If you read the Scottish press, there is virtually no influence from the movie Braveheart. Few make reference to the selling of Scotland by the "Parcel of Rogues". What motivates most is a desire for Scotland to be able to steer it's own course in the world. While England is busy privatizing the health service, Scotland is trying to keep the NHS intact. While the UK has a nuclear arsenal (which it maintains in Scotland), Scotland wants to be totally nuclear free. Many in Scotland opposed the UK's involvement with the US wars in the mid-east. In short there are myriad issues driving the desire of many Scots to break away. Not the least is the basic fact that Scotland is a very liberal country with left of center views while the UK is much more conservative politically. Scotland feels that their voice is not heard in Westminster.
Yes, the banks have come out in favor of the UK. Remember that they (the UK banks) were bailed out by Westminster after gross mismanagement caused an economic melt down. As long as suckling pigs are getting milk, they are not going to turn loose. But many folks feel it's time for the people to get some bacon out of the deal.
Scotland (many, we'll see after the vote how many) wants to join the world of nations as a free and independent country that is not subservient to anyone else's ambitions.
|Posted by: Robert Phoenix 17-Sep-2014, 07:04 PM|
| Last I checked the poll at Celtic life magazine had 94% at a yes vote. While not a poll coming strictly from Scotland it does seem to be the trend among most for the polls I've seen. Saw John Oliver's commmentary on the vote. Funny stuff and he does make some good points even though he is for a no vote.
|Posted by: MacFive 17-Sep-2014, 07:44 PM|
| I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Scotland will vote not to leave the U.K.
In fact, I am still of the personal opinion that this break-up would be bad for Scotland, England and the U.K. What this will do for the financial markets is terrible and could send the markets in a tailspin.
But seriously, Scots and English have a shared history and shared families from cross border marriages. Take Princess Diana and her two sons who share Scottish and English history.
I think for us Americans we like to think of Scotland as in medieval times and what it was like in the romanticized versions of history. We've always been freedom loving people.
Scotland does not have the industry nor finances to make this successful. To be honest with you the political forces in Westminister should have never allowed this question on the ballot. Would us as Americans ever allow Texas or California or Alaska to become independent nations.
In the end if Scotland does vote to leave the U.K., then it is very possible this could be the end of the U.K. It would just cumulate the self-destruction of the Western Powers in Europe and create a vacuum that will some day be filled by those bigger nations that have bigger plans to extend their influence beyond their borders - mainly Russia and China....
In the course of human history, all empires eventually come to an end and what we might be witnessing is the final blow to that great and brutal empire called the United Kingdom...
|Posted by: haynes9 18-Sep-2014, 12:20 AM|
| The discussion has been hearty, good and spirited! At least among those of us on the forums! I guess we will all find out how it goes today!
I have been on record as in favor of a "yes" vote, but whatever the Scottish people decide, that should be the end of it. I wish them well no matter what the outcome!
Now, about Northern Ireland . . .
|Posted by: MacFive 18-Sep-2014, 08:05 PM|
| It has been very exciting because everyone is talking about it. At work, on the news and in the family.
We are heading up to the New Hampshire Highland Games this weekend and it will be interesting to hear if there is any discussion.
Guess we will know in several hours, certainly by morning what the vote results in. Even if the vote for no wins, I think Scotland will gain politically and financially with more say in the UK government.
|Posted by: togo 19-Sep-2014, 04:58 AM|
| It's official. Scotland stays with the U.K.!
55% no votes
45% yes votes
The people of Scotland has made their choice. I was really torn myself with this issue. Great discussion and excitement for the past several months.
|Posted by: haynes9 19-Sep-2014, 08:44 AM|
| Scotland has spoken! I'm a little disappointed personally, but this is what the process is all about. No violence, just make a choice!
I'll say this . . .things will never be the same! Maybe London will listen a little more closely after they have their collective sigh of relief!
Interesting to see the responses from Northern Ireland.
Have a great day everyone!!
|Posted by: MacEoghainn 20-Sep-2014, 08:54 AM|
| What many of the Yes faction here in the US forgot (or never knew) was this gem by Thomas Jefferson in our own Declaration of Independence:
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."