Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )



Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Bush Fighting Gay Marriage, Do we need a constitutional amendment?
Bookmark and Share
CelticCoalition 
Posted: 06-Jun-2006, 11:50 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
Group Icon

Group: Ireland
Posts: 561
Joined: 14-Jul-2005
ZodiacReed


male





So this week Bush and conservatives in congress have brought up the Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage once again.

There are many questions this brings up. Do we need a ban on gay marriage added to the constitution? Should it be up to the States to decide? Is this the right time to even be bringing this issue up with the war continuing, homeless people on the streets, and all the other problems this country is facing? Should gay people be allowed to get married? Why or why not?

Personally I see no reason why gay marriage should be banned. As marriage is a state matter, I also don't believe the federal government needs to get involved. This is deffinately not the time to be bringing up this issue any way. Maybe once all the life threatening problems such as terrorism, the homeless, poverty, the war, etc have been resolved, maybe then this would be an important issue for the government to look into.

Thoughts?


--------------------
user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image
May those who love us love us
And those who don't love us
May God turn their hearts,
And if He doesn't turn their hearts,
May He turn their ankles,
So we'll know them by their limping.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
stoirmeil 
Posted: 06-Jun-2006, 11:57 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 3,581
Joined: 07-Nov-2004
ZodiacBirch

Realm: New York







It is wrongheaded on the level of content (about on a level of intelligence with the idea of "curing" mutants, which is a pretty thinly cloaked analogy for it), arse-backwards in terms of priorities of need, and as you point out it should not even be an issue for federal legislation. Frankly I think the benighted man is desperate to leave some kind of a mark or legacy. What a miserable and inhumane effort to have one's administration remembered for.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
ShadowDarkFyre 
Posted: 06-Jun-2006, 12:53 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



ur-Lord of the Domain and Realms
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 283
Joined: 09-Mar-2006
ZodiacBirch

Realm: Caer RivenMyst, Fantasia I.D.

male





The worst of it is, it leave a door open that shouldn't be. How long before soemone says that interracial marriage is against the law. Or marriage between two people of different classes is against the law.

It's not the government's business to determine this.



Just my $.02...



--------------------
user posted image

There's magick in believing...

The Domain and Realms
http://www.thedomainandrealms.com
PMEmail PosterUsers Website               
Top
McKenna 
Posted: 06-Jun-2006, 01:24 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Servant
**

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 43
Joined: 24-May-2006
ZodiacOak

Realm: Los Angeles, CA

female





Whenever they bring up the gay marriage thing, its just serving as a distraction to all of the major things they are doing wrong: the war, the environment, the economy, etc.

What I don't get is, since the right wing is so concerned with outlawing abortion why they wouldn't want happily married gay couples taking on all those unwanted babies?

If I were in orphan and had to choose btw a living in a trailer park with a hetero couple that is doing drugs and beating each other up or two rich and successful lesbian moms that could send me to music and art lessons, well...not a tough decision there!


--------------------
There is a vitality, a life-force, an energy, a quickening that is translated through you into action and because there is only one of you in all of time, this expression is unique. And if you block it, it will never exist through any other medium and be lost. -martha graham
PMEmail PosterUsers Website My Photo Album               View My Space Profile.
Top
Dugadelphia 
Posted: 06-Jun-2006, 03:33 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 286
Joined: 11-Feb-2004
ZodiacElder

Realm: The Pacific Northwest...land of tall trees, blue water, software and endless lattes

male





I think it is dangerous to add (any) discrimination to the Constitution since the document is largely a statement of freedoms and rights.

As for timing, this is simply an attempt to revisit a very successful strategy employed during the presidential election; namely to spur to action the political right to support this issue and thereby vote in the upcoming midterms with the aim of shoring up the Republican Congress.


--------------------
Welcome to the Machine...
PMEmail Poster               
Top
ShadowDarkFyre 
Posted: 06-Jun-2006, 04:56 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



ur-Lord of the Domain and Realms
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 283
Joined: 09-Mar-2006
ZodiacBirch

Realm: Caer RivenMyst, Fantasia I.D.

male





Agreed.

(shakes his head)

It's going to be nothing but problems if it goes through...

PMEmail PosterUsers Website               
Top
Nova Scotian 
Posted: 06-Jun-2006, 08:07 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
Group Icon

Group: Scotland
Posts: 916
Joined: 09-Mar-2005
ZodiacRowan

Realm: Tampa Florida

male





Why don't we just put it to a national vote? We'll see how everyone feels nation wide. If it's voted in or voted down, then the people have spoken and weather you like it or not, it would be there to stay.


--------------------
ALL4114Christ!

343 Their blood cries out! NEVER FORGET 9/11!

The 2nd Ammendment. The original Homeland Security!

"To those who would follow laws; laws need not apply. Those who would not follow laws; laws will have no affect upon."

Plato

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
C. S. Lewis
PMEmail Poster                
Top
Dogshirt 
Posted: 06-Jun-2006, 10:21 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline





Lord of the Northern Plains
Group Icon

Group: Founder
Posts: 2,400
Joined: 12-Oct-2003
ZodiacElder

Realm: Washington THE State

male





Agreed, and while we are at it let's put INCOME TAX to the vote and see how THAT fares? wink.gif


beer_mug.gif


--------------------
Hoka Hey!
The more Liberals I meet, the more I like my dogs!
PMEmail PosterMy Photo Album               
Top
Nova Scotian 
Posted: 07-Jun-2006, 08:23 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
Group Icon

Group: Scotland
Posts: 916
Joined: 09-Mar-2005
ZodiacRowan

Realm: Tampa Florida

male





QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 06-Jun-2006, 10:21 PM)
Agreed, and while we are at it let's put INCOME TAX to the vote and see how THAT fares? wink.gif


beer_mug.gif

LOLOL! Now that one would be voted out REAL QUICKI!
PMEmail Poster                
Top
Senara 
Posted: 07-Jun-2006, 08:45 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Musican/Ruler of the Dells/Warrior
Group Icon

Group: Ireland
Posts: 1,134
Joined: 03-Nov-2005
ZodiacHazel

Realm: Caer Portshire, Mist Hollow

female





The rite of marriage has been performed for centuries between couples that either found each other and were willing to commit to a lifetime together or arranged by their families to honor the same committment.

Why is it then that our national leaders want to create a world where it is illegal to make such a committment to a person of the same sex? Because some book that has some "religious" value says it's a sin? Or is it because it would reduce the amount of children being born, therefore reducing the future tax base? Or is it simply because they think they can because it's just "icky" to think about.

I'm sorry but we are all grown ups here. We may not like the idea, but it is not for us to dictate who can and can not be wed. Adding a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage only introduces distrust and negativity into a document that was supposed to help provided "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for all."

Just because a person is gay doesn't make them a secondary citizen. It doesn't make them any less human, hold any less emotion, or dream less of a future they could possibly have.

If such an admendment was ratified and accepted what would be next? An amendment for all Muslim citizens to wear patches on their arms, or move them all to a reservation in the desert? Would urban/rap/hiphop radio stations be shut down because their music incites gang violence and illegal drug sales? Would we add an amendment that requires people to work 50 hr weeks and they must start at the age of 12? Likely not but it demonstrates the same single-mindedness that the President is demonstrating on this subject.

I just don't see it feasible to restrict same-sex marriages. There are many other problems that are much more severe that need fixing before we add another amendment to the Constitution.


P.S. I'll hop on that No more Income Tax wagon too. I think I've paid more than my fair share this year.


--------------------
Senara-ism : Life is like a theatrical production only you get to be actor, director, and audience all at once. So break a leg, sit back and enjoy the show!

"When the waves are high and the light is dying, raise a glass and think of me..." -Gaelic Storm

Cha chir drn a thoirt an aghaidh pig.
A kiss ought not to be met with a fist.

Thig crioch air an saoghal, ach mairidh gaol is cel.
The world will pass away, but love and music last forever.

"I am a crazy, rabid squirrel! I want my cookies!" Hammy-Over the Hedge
PMEmail Poster               
Top
stoirmeil 
Posted: 07-Jun-2006, 09:32 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 3,581
Joined: 07-Nov-2004
ZodiacBirch

Realm: New York







QUOTE (ShadowDarkFyre @ 06-Jun-2006, 12:53 PM)
The worst of it is, it leave a door open that shouldn't be. How long before soemone says that interracial marriage is against the law. Or marriage between two people of different classes is against the law.

It's not the government's business to determine this.


Interracial marriage, or even interracial sexual interaction, did used to be against the law. The rationale was that it was "unnatural, and therefore against God's or Nature's intentions." Specious arguments like "you don't see blackbirds mating with bluejays, do you?" used to be quite common, and not only below the Mason-Dixon line. BTW: There was an interesting talk last night on NPR's "On Point" about the issues crossover regarding civil rights, between interracial marriage and gay marriage.

So -- on with the responsible investigation of the premise that marriage lies exclusively within the province of heterosexuality. Google on Stephanie Coontz for yourselves, to look at an analysis of marriage historically. Here's some articles of hers:
http://stephaniecoontz.com/articles/

And a quote from her:
Coontz: It's not so much that I agree as it is that I think for once he has understated the case. James Dobson says that allowing gays and lesbians marriage threatens to end marriage and family as we have known it for 5,000 years. I usually disagree with people who make catastrophic claims, but I think in this case Dobson is understating the case. Marriage and the family as we've known it has already been decisively overturned.

Where I continue to disagree with him is that it is heterosexuals who changed marriage and gays and lesbians are simply responding to that change. It was heterosexuals who said marriage does not have to be about procreation. It was heterosexuals who pioneered the reproductive revolution that allowed infertile people to have kids. It was heterosexuals who gave you a choice whether to marry. And it was heterosexuals who said we don't have to organize marriage around rigid gender roles; men and women can construct what roles they want to play, or they can play equal roles.

Once you've gotten rid of the idea that it has to be for procreation, that is has to be between two people who can physically reproduce, and that you must have kids if you can, and that one has to play the male role and one the female role, then many of the arguments for denying marriage to gays and lesbians go out the door.
http://citypages.com/databank/26/1280/article13408.asp


Here's one link that makes a good opener:

http://www.alternet.org/story/23400/


Has anybody seen the Indiana bill that was being considered last fall, about "unauthorized reproduction"? Gotta be married to make a baby, or it's a criminal offense, is the gist of it. Now, where does that leave women who are not allowed to form partnerships and marry because they are lesbians? Do we doubt that that's part of the reasoning? (Or is it just because we want to increase the number of that delightful social institution called the "shotgun wedding"? sad.gif )

Republican lawmakers are drafting new legislation that will make
marriage a requirement for motherhood in the state of Indiana,
including specific criminal penalties for unmarried women who do
become pregnant "by means other than sexual intercourse."

According to a draft of the recommended change in state law, every
woman in Indiana seeking to become a mother throu gh assisted
reproduction therapy such as in vitro fertilization, sperm donation,
and egg donation, must first file for a "petition for parentage" in
their local county probate court.


see link for full article:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/10/3/213554/300

Now, this was withdrawn, but I don't think it's an isolated case, or that it will not rear its head again in some revised form. Maybe in the arena of what kinds of procedures will be covered with insurance, and who is eligible.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti.../510060442/1008
PMEmail Poster               
Top
j Padraig moore 
Posted: 07-Jun-2006, 12:01 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 1,098
Joined: 23-Apr-2004
ZodiacBirch








With much trepidation I am entering this fray...
As a Christian, I understand the reasoning behind this "ban gay marriages" movement. The way I understand it, the logic is that the union of non-heterosexuals is an affront to God's law (The Bible does have many verses relating to homosexuality). By allowing gay marriages, we would allow this immorality (or sin if you would) to flourish.

Now if we were to apply this same reasoning to other issues of "sin", we should consider the following:
1. Poverty. I personally find it heinous that people, especially in this country can live in abject poverty.
2. Pornography. This can be traced as the root of all sorts of evil. Read the story of Ted Bundy and see what role porn had in his slide into being a serial killer.
3. Greed. Need I say more.

These are just a couple of things that one can call sin. But...
Do you hear an outcry for Constitutional amendments to combat them? No.
I guess the point I want to make is that I think this whole issue of gay marriage is a diversion. A diversion from other, more serious issues.

War...
Political Corruption...
Economy woes...
The list could go on.

Gay marriage is called a threat to the family. How? I agree with the comments in stormeil's post. The family as we knew it is already different. And honestly, I've seen some hetero-families that are nowhere near what God wants in a family.

I've said enough. Hope it made sense.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
McKenna 
Posted: 07-Jun-2006, 12:14 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Servant
**

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 43
Joined: 24-May-2006
ZodiacOak

Realm: Los Angeles, CA

female





If marriage = man + woman, then marriage = babies. Babies = More Soldiers to send to war! :-(
PMEmail PosterUsers Website My Photo Album               View My Space Profile.
Top
stoirmeil 
Posted: 07-Jun-2006, 12:17 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 3,581
Joined: 07-Nov-2004
ZodiacBirch

Realm: New York







Yes, McKenna, especially if you have qualms about gays or supporters of gays in the military. sad.gif

I would be genuinely grateful if some knowlegeable person here would attempt a point by point map between what God wants from a family spiritually and what the adults and children in a family need, physically and psychologically. I am not playing the devil's advocate for the hell of it here (though I'm not above that sometimes). I am beginning to believe this is a far too fuzzy assumption of what we think should be self evident but isn't, and it's a recipe for disaster if there isn't a lot clearer and more specific set of terms understood mutually between the partisan members of this potentially national debate.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
ontrose1969 
Posted: 07-Jun-2006, 12:21 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 235
Joined: 04-Jun-2006
ZodiacBirch

Realm: Graham, WA USA

male





Okay... here is my two cents on the issue. I personally believe it is not for the government to decide who can and can't get married. Second, it is crossing the line into religion and here in America there is supposed to be a definite separation between church and state. Often there is not... but I am all for the separation of church and state. So I'm neither for nor against it. It is a personal choice. Period.

Again, just my own $.02.


--------------------
I hope to be the kind of person my dog thinks I am
PMEmail PosterMy Photo Album               
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 








Celtic RadioTM broadcasts through Live365.com and StreamLicensing.com which are officially licensed under SoundExchange, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC and SOCAN.
2014 Celtic Radio Network, Highlander Radio, Celtic Moon, Celtic Dance, Ye O' Celtic Pub and Celt-Rock-Radio.
All rights and trademarks reserved. Read our Privacy Policy.
Celtic Graphics 2014, Cari Buziak


Link to CelticRadio.net!
Link to CelticRadio.net
View Broadcast Status and Statistics!

Best Viewed With IE 8.0 (1680 x 1050 Resolution), Javascript & Cookies Enabled.


[Home] [Top]

Celtic Hearts Gallery | Celtic Mates Dating | My Celtic Friends | Celtic Music Radio | Family Heraldry | Medival Kingdom | Top Celtic Sites | Web Celt Blog | Video Celt