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Viriato  |
Posted: 05-Jun-2005, 06:43 AM
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Braveheart Member
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 136
Joined: 04-Jun-2005
Zodiac: Holly
Realm: In a boat in the North Hebrides
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Hi there!
i'm a new arrival, just few days old into the Forum.
There is something that always has puzzle me...
I come from Galiza and we always thought that Asturias was also a Celt country but I can see that, except us, nobody else seems to reconize them as Celts.
The thing is that I included their flag in my business and personal cards, business website and personal website and all my stationery. Oh, dear, dear, dear...!
Can someone put it clear for me, please?
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Tino, àn Gaileach
"It is better Honour without ships than ships without Honour"
- Admiral Méndez Núñez
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| Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas |
Posted: 18-Jul-2005, 12:55 PM
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Celtic Guardian
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 911
Joined: 18-Nov-2003
Zodiac: Oak
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As I understand it, Galicia and Asturias base their claim to being modern Celtic nations on a the survival of Celtic traditions similar to traditions in other Celtic nations, particularly Brittany, although the Celtic language, which is the most accepted criterion of modern Celtic nation status, has not survived in either Galicia or Asturias. Thus, different commentators speak of six, seven, or eight Celtic nations, depending on whether either Galicia or Asturias or both are included in the list. As I understand it (and I could be wrong, as I don't as much about Galicia and Asturias as other Celtic Nations), some people count Galicia, but not Asturias, because they consider Galicia to have a stronger Celtic consciousness than Asturias.
IMHO, if someone from Galicia considers Asturias to be Celtic, that's enough reason for me to do the same.
The Celtic League, which applies a strict language litmus test, does not include either Galicia or Asturias as Celtic nations. See The Celtic Leage Homepage for more information and a map.
Personally, I think moderm Celticness is largely a matter of self-identification.
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Síochán leat,
Mailagnas
Clan Donald USA
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| GJL |
Posted: 30-May-2006, 08:02 PM
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Peasant
Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 1
Joined: 30-May-2006
Zodiac: Birch
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| QUOTE (Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas @ 18-Jul-2005, 01:55 PM) | Please excuse me for being a little late in my adding to this discussion. As someone of Asturian background living in the U.S., I just wanted to clarify.
In regard to the following statement:
"As I understand it, Galicia and Asturias base their claim to being modern Celtic nations on a the survival of Celtic traditions similar to traditions in other Celtic nations, particularly Brittany, although the Celtic language, which is the most accepted criterion of modern Celtic nation status, has not survived in either Galicia or Asturias. Thus, different commentators speak of six, seven, or eight Celtic nations, depending on whether either Galicia or Asturias or both are included in the list. "
 This is a very accurate statement of the way things presently are.
Here is a map from National Geographic online of the Celtic regions. Asturias is next door to Galicia down at the bottom, in northwestern Spain.
As to the following:
"The Celtic League, which applies a strict language litmus test, does not include either Galicia or Asturias as Celtic nations."
This is correct insofar as the League has not accepted either Galicia or Asturias as members due to the strict language-based definition of Celticity that the League goes by. However, the League has nonetheless acknowledged that under other criteria, such as culture, both Galicia and Asturias can be considered Celtic nations. The website of the Celtic league International states that the League"recognises that in Galicia and the Asturies, not only do vestiges of Celtic influence remain, but that some people (still) consider themselves Celts." The website of the American branch of the Celtic league states that both Galicia and Asturias "can claim a Celtic cultural or historic heritage."
As an Asturian, I strongly assert that the Asturias is indeed a strongly celtic region. Many have already given recognition to this. See this site and this site . Asturias is often included in celtic cultural festivals and Asturian celtic musical groups such as Llan de Cubel are frequent guests on celtic music festivals such as Lorient, Celtic Colours, etc.
For more about Asturias specifically, see this page and this page too!
Hope this helps, and encourages you to include Asturias as a celtic nation.  For more encouragement, click here and page down !!
Thank you to my brother from Galicia for supporting us! |
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| oldraven |
Posted: 26-Mar-2007, 06:30 AM
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The Protector of the Unknown
Group: Scotland
Posts: 3,316
Joined: 20-Oct-2003
Zodiac: Hazel
Realm: Guysborough Co., Nova Scotia
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Considering that the entire of the western part of modern Spain was at one time considered to be a unified Celtic region, at least in Anchient literature, as well as the enormous region of Celtiberia (the cultural mix of Celts and Iberians), I would quite comfortably call Asturias a Celtic region (if not nation) of antiquity. So far as I know, when this was an Independant Celtic State (and I use the words State and Nation loosely), there may have been tribal borders, thought no national border between the two modern principalities.
What we know today, through archeology and anchient literature, of the area actually seems to divide the principality of Asturias directly down the middle (from what I can see, the line can vaguely be drawn from around Piedras Blancas and Llanos de Somerón, and on to its borders). One side in Celtic Spain, (which has now been reduced to Galicia) and on the other the Celtiberian region.
Nova Scotia and Newfoundland can never be considered Celtic Nations, since there has never been a Self Governed Independant Celtic State here. If we look to Europe to see what constitutes as a Celtic Nation, we must look at these new world lands as so. It would be Mi'kmaq (as Welsh is...), as Algonquian (...to the Celts). By the time the Celts got here, even with their surviving Celtic languages, they were British by Government.
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Caw "I am a Canadian by birth, but I am a Highlander by blood and feel under an obligation to do all I can for the sake of the Highlanders and their literature.... I have never yet spoken a word of English to any of my children. They can speak as much English as they like to others, but when they talk to me they have to talk in Gaelic." -Alexander Maclean Sinclair of Goshen (protector of Gaelic Culture) We need more Stan Rogers. jams |
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| oldraven |
Posted: 26-Mar-2007, 06:41 AM
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The Protector of the Unknown
Group: Scotland
Posts: 3,316
Joined: 20-Oct-2003
Zodiac: Hazel
Realm: Guysborough Co., Nova Scotia
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| QUOTE (A Shrule Egan @ 25-Mar-2007, 06:47 AM) | | QUOTE (Rebecca Ann @ 24-Mar-2007, 10:09 PM) | My grandmother told me that the Black Irish are the Scots that went to northern Ireland and they were called black because of their ruddy skin which is much darker than that of the Irish.
RebeccaAnn |
I was always under the impression, that the Black Irish were Spaniards, who fled Spain during the Inquisition. Can't say that I have ever heard the Scots referred that way before. Since Ireland was a vacant land and had no true natives, the people had to come from somewhere and Scotland is certainly a strong possibility.
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In addition to that, consider who the Scots were to begin with. They were Irish Raiders, calling themselves Scotti, who entered Pictish lands and began assimliating the people there (assimilating, in this case, is a nice way of saying erasing, without killing, which was all but complete by 800ad. A date that is quite recent, by documented history's standards. Too recent to have pretty much no indications left of who the Picts were. A few carved standing stones). Scots are, in essence, Irish mixed with Pict (which would explain why the English/Saxons refered two both people with the one name of Irish for so long).
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| oldraven |
Posted: 27-Mar-2007, 08:10 AM
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The Protector of the Unknown
Group: Scotland
Posts: 3,316
Joined: 20-Oct-2003
Zodiac: Hazel
Realm: Guysborough Co., Nova Scotia
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Being from Illinois (state motto: Thanks for not pronouncing the 'S'), I'd say your nation is The United States of America. 
I too am made of a varied mix of Celt/Gaul and Germanic. Genetically, at any rate. My family (John Reeves) arrived in Chebucto (Halifax) in 1749, and my mother's family (MacLean and Jewers) came much more recent, though I haven't gotten to that point yet. It's safe to say I'm Canadian.
I don't think it's as easy as saying 'I'm Welsh/Irish/Breton/Manx, etc.' anymore. By the end of the Dark Ages, the Atlantic Celts had so much influence and interweaving of cultures and peoples that they were essentially one mass people who put their own distinct spin on Medieval life. Most surviving Celtic Nations at the time were dealing with the same issues (and enemies) at the same time. Norse Raiders and Anglo/Saxon (English) expansionism (later Protestant Reformation). What nation didn't have internal feuding? Amazingly, they still couldn't see the bigger picture enough to unite against their common enemies.
You're a Celt, my dear. They were one people, they just didn't know it yet. 
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