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> The People Behind The "useful Idiot", How does knowledge feel?
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Now that you are a bit more informed about the people behind Cindy Sheehan, are yo ucomfortable being politically associated with her?
I agree wholeheartedly with their sentiments and motives. [ 1 ]  [14.29%]
I really had no idea and don't like it. [ 3 ]  [42.86%]
I don't like these people but I agree with their voice. [ 3 ]  [42.86%]
Total Votes: 7
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sniper 
Posted on 04-Oct-2005, 03:44 PM
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The anti-war movement isn't anti-war and it isn't a movement. It is a loose collection of anti-Americans, plain and simple. It is against anything American, including the war, except the First Amendment and is operated by a core cadre of a couple of hundred anti-corporate, socialist, Marxist, communist activists and Muslims and their supporters.

The principal sponsor of the September 24th protest was International A.N.S.W.E.R. an offshoot of the Stalinist organization, the Workers World Party. A.N.S.W.E.R. is extreme in its support for anti-American dictators. One of its founders, Ramsey Clark, is on the Saddam Hussein defense team.

International A.N.S.W.E.R. describes itself as, "against U.S. intervention in Latin America, the Caribbean, the Middle East and Asia and campaigns for civil rights and for social and economic justice." They are really into contributions and donations.

The website states that "all the major antiwar groups will come together for the massive rally at the White House and march, but it is the A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition that has the full responsibility for the costs of the stage, sound, and setup at the joint rally, where the major speakers will appear."

The secondary sponsors were United for Peace and Justice and Code Pink. These organizations are closely related and are A.N.S.W.E.R. spin-offs.

Please feel free to use the hyperlinks provided, they are filled with other links to allow you to form an informed opinion about the legitimacy of these comments.

Your comments will be appreciated.

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anhrefn 
Posted on 04-Oct-2005, 06:40 PM
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

i have attended anti-war rallies and i am not in the least anti-american. i love this country but, the current administration is making a mockery of our constitution and the bill of rights - and i'm not only referring to the first amendment. there've been many transgression against the bill of rights perpetrated by those who are supposed to be enforcing (serving and protecting) the rights of the governed. the 4th, 6th and 8th, in particular, have been violated at many demonstrations in which i've participated.

but, i DO agree with your assessment of a.n.s.w.e.r.


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Shamalama 
Posted on 05-Oct-2005, 12:12 AM
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This is not the first time International A.N.S.W.E.R. has appeared at a rally. They've been supporting various anti-anything-American for a number of years.

At first they were a silent backer of protests. But once they learned that no one would actually care that they were first and foremost an anti-America organization, one that has high hopes of toppling our government and replacing it with Socialism, they started "coming out of the closet". Heck, we have a number of die-hard, card-carrying Socialists on various ballots across the country for many years. At first the term "Socialist" was a negative word. Many have since dropped that one and started using the term "Progressive", but a few now proudly wear that name in public. Either way they are populated with true Socialists, today's Leftists, and left-over hippies from the 1960's.

Like anhrefn said, being anti-war does not make you anti-American. Those are two different phrases. But International A.N.S.W.E.R. has been, and is today, decidedly anti-American. They simply use disagreement with the current US actions in liberating Iraq as a smokescreen. And those that align themselves with International A.N.S.W.E.R., like Sheehen, are either ignorant of that fact, or are anti-American themselves.


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SCShamrock 
Posted on 05-Oct-2005, 08:07 AM
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QUOTE (Shamalama @ 05-Oct-2005, 12:12 AM)
Like anhrefn said, being anti-war does not make you anti-American. Those are two different phrases. But International A.N.S.W.E.R. has been, and is today, decidedly anti-American. They simply use disagreement with the current US actions in liberating Iraq as a smokescreen. And those that align themselves with International A.N.S.W.E.R., like Sheehen, are either ignorant of that fact, or are anti-American themselves.

That's a very good point. Sheehan very well may be ignorant of that fact. However, I'd be willing to bet my last nickle that should she learn the truth behind A.N.S.W.E.R., that she wouldn't cease her involvement with them. In fact, I'd be willing to make a substantial wager with any of the people on this board who also visit the "Daily Kos", that should you give Sheehan the "skinny" on A.N.S.W.E.R., she will continue her activities without so much as a burp.

My real opinion on Sheehan is that she does not possess the mental ability to have made her alignment with A.N.S.W.E.R. as anything calculated, nor would she be able to grasp the concept of them being anti-American.


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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
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sniper 
Posted on 06-Oct-2005, 08:45 AM
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QUOTE (SCShamrock @ 05-Oct-2005, 09:07 AM)
That's a very good point.

I agree that that is a very good point.

The problem seems to be that the American anti-war movement does not exist. I don't find any anti-war activity that isn't sponsored and orchestrated by the communist movement which, in my opinion, is clearly anti-American.

Another question that I will direct to anhrefn: While I thank you for your comments and clarity of agreement about International A.N.S.W.E.R. is whether or not you actually align yourself with the groups philosophy?

Another question would be for anhrefn: Considering the media coverage of the anti-war movement, with a complete lack of criticism, how is anyone's First Amendment rights to freedom of speech being denied?

Yet another question: Are pasting the first paragraph to the Declaration of Independence before your comments are you trying to insinuate that you are in support of a coup against our present government? Considering that a mojority vote re-elected our current administration, I find it curious, if not enlightening.
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sniper 
Posted on 16-Oct-2005, 02:05 PM
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bump for questions yet to be anwered.
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oldraven 
Posted on 17-Oct-2005, 08:56 AM
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"anti-American, anti-corporate, socialist, Marxist, communist activists and Muslims"

I honestly don't know a thing about this Sheehan character, or her motives. But I do know I'm against the war in Iraq (separate from the war on Terror) and happen to be none of the above.

I don't have any answers for you, I just thought you should keep in mind that being anti-war is not the same as being behind this International A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition. I know I may sound like a broken record, but avoid generalizing the people you can't speak for.


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sniper 
Posted on 17-Oct-2005, 09:40 AM
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QUOTE (oldraven @ 17-Oct-2005, 09:56 AM)
"anti-American, anti-corporate, socialist, Marxist, communist activists and Muslims"

I honestly don't know a thing about this Sheehan character, or her motives. But I do know I'm against the war in Iraq (separate from the war on Terror) and happen to be none of the above.

I don't have any answers for you, I just thought you should keep in mind that being anti-war is not the same as being behind this International A.N.S.W.E.R. Coalition. I know I may sound like a broken record, but avoid generalizing the people you can't speak for.

Perhaps you should go back to page one, first post and read about the anti-American movement, it's called educating yourself. I have provided links to various websites that document the people and organizations that are portrayed by the American media as the "anti-war" movement.

You should, at the very least, realize who you align yourself with and what their motives are, before telling me not to make generalizations, unless you can provide one example of an organized anti-war demonstration that isn't sponsored by the communist party of America and a dozen other anti-American groups.

I would think it would be fair to say that all of us are against war. Some of us are against losing.

I would caution you not to speak for the people you think are representing your ideals.

The person posting the opening paragraph of the Declaration of Independence is a self-proclaimed anarchist. I thought her comments would provide insight to my questions.
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oldraven 
Posted on 17-Oct-2005, 10:36 AM
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QUOTE (sniper @ 17-Oct-2005, 07:40 AM)
You should, at the very least, realize who you align yourself with and what their motives are, before telling me not to make generalizations, unless you can provide one example of an organized anti-war demonstration that isn't sponsored by the communist party of America and a dozen other anti-American groups.

I would caution you not to speak for the people you think are representing your ideals.

I haven't aligned myself with anyone. You took care of that for me.

And I represent my ideals. I don't choose someone else to speak for me unless I vote for them. Last time I checked, that was a Democratic party, not a Communist one.
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sniper 
Posted on 17-Oct-2005, 05:59 PM
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I'm not sure what the problem is.

I have presented empirical evidence that Cindy Sheehan, as the most visible figure of the anti-war movement, is financed by the DemocRATic National Committee, the Communist Party of the United States, and various Islamic terrorist organizations such as the Crawford Peace House, as well as various other anti-semitic and anarchist groups.

The source of this information has been provided via links to the supporting websites for anyone caring to discuss the topic to do their own research.

You seem to want to disregard all this wealth of information and make claims that clearly align you with the anti-American motives of Cindy Sheehan's financiers and claim that I am somehow impugning you by merely bringing this topic to the forum for discussion.

Perhaps you see this forum as a school yard where you can bully people into complying to your demands. Funny, the islamic extremists waging war against us are trying to do the same thing. Neither you nor the Islamo-fascists will achieve that goal.
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CelticCoalition 
Posted on 17-Oct-2005, 08:56 PM
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Sniper, you are making a sweeping generalization, and you are also using bully tactics. You are basically condemning anyone who decides they are against the war as anti-americans simply because their are anti-american groups who are against the war. You are personally attacking and throwing veiled accusations at those who are simply trying to say that they are against the war and are not anti-american.

Simply agreeing with a group on an issue does not make you member of that group.

The problem is hiding behind rhetoric to attack those who would refute your opinions in an attempt to ridicule them into silence. People are free to their opinions, but personal attacks, no matter how intelligently worded or disguised are not only a TOS violation, they also erode open debate.


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SCShamrock 
Posted on 18-Oct-2005, 08:01 AM
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QUOTE (CelticCoalition @ 17-Oct-2005, 08:56 PM)

The problem is hiding behind rhetoric to attack those who would refute your opinions in an attempt to ridicule them into silence.  People are free to their opinions, but personal attacks, no matter how intelligently worded or disguised are not only a TOS violation, they also erode open debate.

C.C.

This is not the first time that the T.O.S. has been thrown about as something of a weapon. Personally, I'm getting quite weary from it, and think it should be canned until absolutely necessary. Do you have a comment on Sniper's post? Do you think he is wrong for posting this information in the first place? Perhaps what you should do, rather than constantly ridiculing others because you find their opinions offensive, is to either stay away from sensitive material, or make a purposed effort to remain on topic. I read another thread in which commenters deliberately distracted from the topic for the apparent purpose of staying off topic. This too ended in a personal attack volley that eventually killed the thread. Sad. Here is what Sniper said:

QUOTE (Sniper)
You should, at the very least, realize who you align yourself with and what their motives are, before telling me not to make generalizations, unless you can provide one example of an organized anti-war demonstration that isn't sponsored by the communist party of America and a dozen other anti-American groups.

I would think it would be fair to say that all of us are against war. Some of us are against losing.

I would caution you not to speak for the people you think are representing your ideals.


At no time did Sniper accuse oldraven of aligning himself with anyone. His generalization was in the organized anti-war demonstration. Obviously, you are seeing what you want to see because it is becoming very apparent that you want to argue and point fingers at others more than you want intelligent debate or conversation. I see Sniper's comments here, while being direct and to the point, as being very diplomatic. I think he has chosen his words carefully, and you are failing to thoroughly read them. So please, stop with all the T.O.S. pooh.gif
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sniper 
Posted on 18-Oct-2005, 08:12 AM
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QUOTE (sniper @ 17-Oct-2005, 10:40 AM)
I would think it would be fair to say that all of us are against war.

Just repeating what has already been said. Maybe the discussion can move forward.
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CelticCoalition 
Posted on 18-Oct-2005, 10:02 PM
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I apologize for my off topic remarks. I didn't realize that all comments must be made regarding the original post and not subsequent posts. To answer your questions:

My comment is that I do not believe that everyone who is against this war in anti-american, nor that everyone in the movement is either. Simply demonstrating that anti-american groups protest against the war does not make all memeber of the anti-war movement anti-american.

I do not believe anyone is wrong for posting any information they choose on this site as long as it isn't false or plagerised.

Finally, in my defense, your quote did not include the material I was concerned about, nor were you quoting the most recent post made by sniper. However, I realize it isn't my job to moderate this forum.

Once again I apologize for my intrusive comments.
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Sonee 
Posted on 06-Nov-2005, 08:17 PM
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I may not have been around here for as long as some of you, and I may have been absent lately due to my schooling, but it has been my experience, and is my opinion, that oldraven is not now, nor has he ever been, anti american.

It appears to me that this has become more of an arguement over everybody's opinion instead of a discussion involving everybody's opinion. It seems that sniper is for the war, oldraven and cc are against the war (do not read against the war on terror as they are two seperate entities) and that shamrock has an aversion to the term TOS. Does that about cover it? Now, as far as I remember a person's opinion is neither wrong nor right it just is. We are all allowed to disagree with each other's opinions without being bullies but I don't believe we are allowed to call people names on the basis of those opinions either.

Answer me this: does anyone disagree with the notion/idea/opinion that A.N.S.W.E.R et al. is anti-american? If so, why?


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