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| Celtic Radio Community > Celtic Music > Scottish/English Ballads In Appalachia |
| Posted by: Haldur 03-Feb-2005, 09:21 PM |
| The morning fog rises above the blue-tinged ridges as the sun casts its creamy, golden light upon every living thing. All around the chatter of the birds can be heard. The cool streams below whisper and sing harmoniously with the dancing wind. You look every which way and see nothing but elderly forests, green with life and full of mystery. You take in a deep breath and feel absolute bliss, observing nature and the quiet of the morn. No, you aren?t dreaming?perhaps you think you are. This is the feeling of walking through the countryside in Appalachia. I grew up in Eastern Kentucky, in the Appalachian Mountains, where life is simple and full of music. In the mountains, one can walk far away from the hustle and rush of the city life and truly breathe pure freedom, uninhibited and sacred. There, one can capture an entirely unique perspective on life as told from the musicians? point of view. I never knew a time in my life when music wasn?t there to soothe me, to excite me, and to fuel my dreams. Much of my family played musical instruments, sang, or spun records in their homes and out on their front porches. Never so much as now have I grown to appreciate the legacy and history that has been fermenting in the hollows of Appalachia. I yearn to go back to the mountains to rediscover their mystique and tap into a culture that is as old as the first white American settlers. I?ve started down this road by discovering the music of artists like Lydia McCauley, Stonecircle, and Jean Ritchie?just to name a few?as they are Celtic and folk musicians brought to my attention by my friends here on Highlander Radio. My interest has been furthered by my viewing of the motion picture ?Songcatcher? and its portrait of an Appalachian community and its local music, inherited from Scottish and English ballads that were brought over nearly 400 years ago. In the movie, several ballads are mentioned or performed in one form or another. Ballads such as ?Barbara Allen?, ?Pretty Saro?, and ?Mattlry Groves? are the backdrop for the film?s plot, as a young musicologist, Dr. Lily Penleric, hears a young girl singing ?Barbara Allen? in her distinctive southern fashion. She then embarks on collecting these ballads, preserved for hundreds of years in the Appalachian mountains of North Carolina. Since seeing this film I have been interested in collecting as much as possible regarding the Scottish/English/Appalachian musical links, their history, and the many similarities and differences between each version. I have posted this in hopes of getting some input on these ballads and any other Celtic music that might have been carried over the stormy seas to present day Southern Appalachia. My main geographical areas of interest are in (but not limited to) Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, West Virginia, and North Carolina. I hope to get some articles that I have found regarding Appalachia and the Scottish/English music of the area, post them in this forum, and siphon everyone?s thoughts in regards to the articles! I also hope to reference more of the ballads I?ve discovered along the way and encourage all who find any information to do the same. I plan on referencing the readily available tools that I currently have: internet search, friends and colleagues, my public library, and of course, this site! As a musician myself, I also yearn to soak up some more knowledge by actually learning the songs both vocally and on the acoustic guitar. I feel that musical heritage is something many take for granted. I plan on researching this heritage for quite a while, perhaps one day searching for musicians in the mountains to record. The technology is there, the drive is there, and most certainly the music is still there in one form or another. To tell you the truth, I feel like a songcatcher already! |
| Posted by: Haldur 03-Feb-2005, 09:36 PM |
| Okay, to start off, here are all the ballads that were listed in the end credits of "Songcatcher"! I'd love to find a good version of each of these as I'm considering purchasing the album Songcatcher II which includes music for the movie (and apparently some that didn't get put in the movie)...happy hunting! Scottish and English ballads from Songcatcher ----------------------------------------------------- Barbara Allen Come All You Fair and Tender Ladies Conversation with Death Down in a Willow Garden Johnnie Scot Leather Breeches Lord Randall Lord Thomas & Fair Ellinor Mattlry Groves Old Joe Clark Pretty Saro Sally Goodin Silk Merchant's Daughter Single Girl Soldier's Joy The Trooper and the Maid The Two Sisters Young Hunting |
| Posted by: Haldur 03-Feb-2005, 09:39 PM |
Oh and one more note before someone else catches it... I'm looking into getting the Forum title changed somehow...I was in a rush to post all I had written and had failed to capitalize English in the title. Note that this was not meant to denote the importance of the 'English' ballads, but was just a typo. Hey, I'm only human, right?  (Or at least me thinks I am) |
| Posted by: Keltic 03-Feb-2005, 10:59 PM | ||
| See what I can contribute here: Pretty Saro - A version can be found on "John Doyle - Evening Comes Early" - Notes from liner
Come All You Fair and Tender Ladies - According to the liner notes from the Danu CD - "Think before you think", this had it's origins in North America. There is no shortage of versions of this song but this is the only version that I know that I have on CD |
| Posted by: Haldur 04-Feb-2005, 06:38 PM |
| Very cool! Last night after I posted this thread I was tinkering around on Google and decided to go the Library of Congress's site. Let's just say it was a trip! I wish they only had more regarding Celtic and folk music, but it did point me to a short fiddle version of "Barbara Allen" by a Mr. Henry Reed. Here are the links: http://www.loc.gov/ http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/hrhtml/hrhome.html |
| Posted by: Haldur 05-Feb-2005, 09:29 AM |
| Here's a link I discovered today at work while fishing around for some information on Appalachian/Scottish ballads. Follow this link for more stuff! http://cass.etsu.edu/ARCHIVES/music.htm But here's part of the article I found... From the great treasure of ballads, songs, and tales that settlers first brought to southern Appalachian region in the 18th century, music has been an important ingredient in the cultural inheritance of the region. Such folk music was kept alive in Appalachia into the present century and has been adapted and blended into an array of popular musical forms such as old-time country, gospel, bluegrass, and folk music. In these forms, music continues to be a significant and conscious aspect of life for many people in the region. The first commercial recordings of country music were made in Bristol, Tenn. in the 1920s, and many musical groups and individual recording artists began their careers with performances on local radio stations in the region. Here's another interesting link from the same site...seems these folks have already done plenty of research. No sense in re-inventing sliced bread, I guess! Tell me what you think! |
| Posted by: Haldur 08-Feb-2005, 05:40 PM |
| For the past couple weeks I have had in my position two very interesting pieces of literature. The first is "The Ballad Book of John Jacob Niles" by John Jacob Niles. It details the travels, discoveries, and music of the Appalachians as recorded by this legendary folk musician. Truly is a great borrow, as I have it courtesy of my public library! The second, also a public library borrow, is entitled "Folk Songs of the Southern Appalachians" by Jean Ritchie. It is also a book of ballads, having their roots in Scottish/English balladry. Interestingly enough, it seems that both of these folk artists have brought their own take on the ballads as they learned them. While very creative of them, in my opinion, I don't think that was right. But hey, that's just me! In my opinion, if I were I to go about "catching songs" I would have this sort of equipment in mind: a) some sort of portable recording device w/ microphone(s) - DAT, 4-track recorder, tape deck, etc.)  a walking journal - for writing down notes about songs, the source's anecdotes, folklore regarding the song, and whatever else information might be gatheredc) proper transportation - I wouldn't go walking around getting this information! Would have to be something mechanically reliable and preferably fuel efficient d) a good roadmap - for when you get lost e) a digital camera - for photos, of course And these are just a few of the 'essentials' and I know I've left out a few including but not limited to: names of sources and their addresses, etc., a handy carrying case for the recording equipment, perhaps another for everything else! Of course the meat and potatoes of the whole project would be knowing and recognizing the songs and having proper, legitimate sources from which to gather the songs. I could go on and on...hope to hear some input on this forum soon! |
| Posted by: Annabelle 09-Feb-2005, 09:36 PM |
| I love Balladeers. Such earthy music! |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 09:22 PM |
| My sentiments exactly, m' lady! And what's great, is there's a wealth of information (namely the songs themselves) that lurk all around...it's finding them that's the fun part! |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:01 PM |
| To change things up a bit ('cause I've been yappin' away here) here are some pictures of the Southern Appalachians! This one is from my home state of Kentucky, which falls into the Cumberland region of the Appalachians! |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:02 PM |
| Also from Kentucky... |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:04 PM |
| These are some fantastic pictures from the North Carolina Appalachians, which I think (but I might be wrong) are included in the Blue Ridge region. Trust me, I've been proven wrong many a time! |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:05 PM |
| Also from North Carolina! |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:06 PM |
| From the Tennessee/Smokey Mountain region... |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:06 PM |
| Another from the Great Smokies! |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:08 PM |
| From the Virginia Appalachians...Blue Ridge or Shenandoah, one of those regions, if not both! |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:08 PM |
| And you see why they call them the Blue Ridge mountains! |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:10 PM |
| And from the West Virginia Appalachians! Also part of the Cumberland region, I believe. |
| Posted by: Haldur 10-Feb-2005, 11:10 PM |
| Yet another fantastic view of the West Virginian Apps! |
| Posted by: valpal 59 12-Feb-2005, 08:26 PM |
| Beautiful pictures. Thank-you. |
| Posted by: Haldur 14-Feb-2005, 02:13 AM |
| You're very welcome! More to come soon; also more information regarding my journeys through songcatching, including other book references and several other tidbits and goodies I find worth sharing! In all honesty, I think everyone should be knowledgable and appreciative of their state's culture...and our nation's as well! We are very blessed in this country and some of us don't even know it. |
| Posted by: maggiemahone1 19-Feb-2005, 07:33 AM |
Haldur, I live in the Appalachian Mts., too! I know exactly where your coming from. I love the mountains and there's nothing any better than seeing, hearing and tasting what these mountains have to offer. I'm really anxious for spring to arrive so I can see the mountains come alive and display her attire.  I luv going up on a mountain top and looking out and all I can see is more mountains. Spectacular, nothing man made! Thanks for the pictures, makes me fall in love again with the Appalachians, The Smokies and The Blue Ridge! Now I really have spring fever! maggiemahone1 |
| Posted by: Haldur 19-Feb-2005, 06:25 PM |
It's good to hear you're from the Appalachians! I miss the springtimes too...I currently live in the central part of Kentucky, which is still very amazing, but is nothing like the mountains.  More pictures will come, feel free to post some of you like! I've been meaning to go out sometime and take some pictures of them the next time I visit my mother, but I currently don't have a camera. One thing I've kind of strayed away from here lately is discussing the Scottish/English ballads of the area; its been a busy past few weeks in the life of Haldur, I can tell you that much! I'm still researching things though, mostly pertaining to the music itself. There is a very interesting take on "Barbara Allen" recorded by Emmylou Harris and still another that Joan Baez recorded some years ago! Very exciting stuff...I truly admire Joan Baez's approach to the song as it does the song some real justice! I've also discovered some information that hits pretty close to home. My grandpa is currently in a nursing home in Eastern Kentucky and I had the chance to visit him just this past Tuesday. During my visit, the first in like a year, was very precious as my wife, grandma, and myself all sat around talking with him about the good ol' days! We brought along our camcorder and taped most of the discussion, which included some funny stories from his childhood in Eastern Kentucky to his service near the end of the European campaigns in World War II. At one point, I asked him if he had heard any folks playing music in the area and he said there were so many instances he could not recall every one. He did mention a time when a man and his little daughter were playing music together: the father played the fiddle and his daughter, guitar. It was a very rewarding experience because I got to visit my grandpa, talk with him about the good ol' days, and hopefully liven his spirits in the process! |
| Posted by: 3Ravens 21-Feb-2005, 10:03 AM |
| Haldur, Add Shelia Kay Adams to ypur list of balladeers.....amazing woman! Raised in western North Carolina, learned most of her songs from her Granny" |
| Posted by: Haldur 22-Feb-2005, 03:55 PM |
| Thank you very much for the reference there 3Ravens! I'll add that to my list! |
| Posted by: Haldur 28-Feb-2005, 10:31 PM |
| I have found out from my father-in-law that he has an Appalachian dulcimer in his posession! This is very exciting because I'd love to learn it one day. He said he purchased one down in Tennessee one year when they went to the Smokies...he's since retired it to a shelf in the basement, covered in a cloth. It pains me so because I'd love to play it...he told me he'd let me jam out on it a bit the next time we come see them! Not much in regard to other news, just been doing a little more research into traditional music altogether: a little bluegrass, country, Celtic, balladry mix if you will! Life's been grand and well, so has the music!!! |
| Posted by: maggiemahone1 28-Feb-2005, 11:22 PM |
| I have a dulcimer that I bought at Blowing Rock, NC a few years back. I wanted to learn to play, but got interested in other things. Maybe one day, when I get older than what I am now, I'll take it up and learn to play. maggiemahone1 |
| Posted by: Haldur 01-Mar-2005, 01:54 PM |
| You'll have to send me some recordings of your work! I've seen some Appalachian dulcimers, particularly the hourglass shaped variety, at our town's annual Pioneer Festival that's held in September. There are several artisans in the area that specialize in handcrafting them and they are beautiful! I guess you can say I'm a fanatic about them! |
| Posted by: Haldur 11-Mar-2005, 12:42 AM |
| Some updates: First off, today I purchased the movie that started it all, "Songcatcher"! It's finally a part of my DVD collection and quite a prize for what I'm perservering to do. Secondly, I probably won't be able to post much for a couple of weeks after March 16th because of financial issues. But never fear! I shall return...my DSL bill was much larger than I expected this time 'round. But once again, I will post as much as I'm able from work!And lastly, I feel closer to my songcatching duties for I have started researching several contact points throughout Kentucky including Renfro Valley, The Kentucky Artisans Center in Berea, and several local points of contact including music stores and the like. Its truly exciting to know that such contacts can be made essentially right outside my door! So keep your ears open for anything that might tickle ye heart and feel free to post here all ye want! Most gracious blessings and wishes! j--> |
| Posted by: MidnightPeapod 17-Mar-2005, 06:22 PM |
| That which I have read on your thread, thus far has been really interesting to be. I just finished reading a book ('Son of the Sword' by J. Ardian Lee) which is about a guy in 1999 who travels back in time to medieval Scotland. Anyway he ends up learning Gaelic (obviously) and notices that many parts of Southerners' speech is very close to Gaelic grammar. For example, in Gaelic the verb "to be" is conjugated "tha mi, tha thu, tha e, tha i" just like Southerners' say "I be, you be, he be, she be"; and just as in Southern dialect, verbs tend to have an "a' " attached "A'dol and a'tighinn" are the same as a southerner saying "a-going and a-coming". Just a little tidbit - all I have to offer you.  ) |
| Posted by: WizardofOwls 17-Mar-2005, 07:46 PM |
| Sorry for going off-topic here, Haldur, but I jsut wanted to extend a welcome to MidnightPeapod! So glad to have you here with us! Stick around for a while and help us to get to know you better, okay? And welcome to the family! Now back to your regularly scheduled program... |
| Posted by: Haldur 21-Mar-2005, 03:58 PM |
| Thank you for the information there MidnightPeapod, its much appreciated! It is indeed very fascinating the connection between the Appalachians and the Isles! Sorry I didn't reply sooner, but I've been delving even deeper into Appalachian music. Been researching some things out of the movie Songcatcher now that I own it! Oh and by the way, I'd love to travel back in time, myself...just haven't got around to building my time machine yet! Many blessings and good tidings upon ye all! |
| Posted by: Aaediwen 12-May-2005, 05:58 PM |
| TNTales' intro thread got me rambling on the subject of this thread again. The connection between Appilacian music and Taditional Celtic music, is deeper than just having the roots. Many of the songs that are thought of as Appalacian are, in fact, old Celtic songs that have been at best thinly veiled, if at all. "Barbara Allen", "Two Sisters", and several other songs came across the pond, and have remained largely unchanged. A few months ago, I encountered "The Bluebird Song" for the first time, on a CD of Appalacian music from Jennifer Rose. When I went to Ireland, on the second day, the bus driver started telling the exact same story, except that he was talking about all the magpies that were all over the place. He started telling the story, and if I had better memorised the song to think of it sooner I might have completed it for him. He said it was extremely common to find that song anywhere in Ireland. Something everyone would likely be familiar with. It is interesting the connections you'll find. If you know what to look for, you can still hear Celtic roots in contemporary country. Other styles have Celtic roots as well, but Country has what I believe the purist and strongest surviving Celtic vibe of any current, commercial genre. The line being something like as follows: Traditional Celtic --> Appalacian Mountain/folk Music --> Bluegrass --> Honky Tonk --> Contemporary Country And then, of course, modern Celtic artists are listening to and influenced by the Country and Pop Rock that has come from those old traditional styles, and that influences how they play the old tunes... The cycle completes itself, to begin anew. |
| Posted by: Haldur 13-May-2005, 11:34 AM |
| I completely agree, Aaediwen! A lot of country music goes back to that, whether instrumentally or vocally. Me wishes I still had my mandolin, you could create some spine-tingling music with it and it wasn't a heavy, bulky instrument. Kind of like your whistles!! I'd love to tap into the unbound resources here in Kentucky. Just can't seem to find the time (or the money, for that matter) to get those sort of things done. However, I did recently pay a visit to Berea, KY and discovered a wealth of sights dedicated to Kentucky folk music, art, and much much more related to Kentucky and the Appalachian regions in general. It was a very insightful journey as my wife and I looked upon literature/books, crafts, artwork, and music albums by Kentucky musicians. I loved my trip to Berea, KY and will definitely make another visit soon! |
| Posted by: Aaediwen 13-May-2005, 06:00 PM | ||
Let me know when, man. I'll tag along with ya if a certain place of evil and chains will let us escape at the same time |
| Posted by: Haldur 11-Jul-2005, 01:28 PM |
| Just thought I'd bring this thread out of hiding just in case anybody else happened to have any comments, suggestions, or information regarding the thread topic. Why, you might be asking? I'm lazy and haven't really been researching anything. I am planning on getting some equipment together to possibly do a documentary on Appalachian music, seeing as there's plenty of resources in the area. Fun fun! |
| Posted by: OBH 11-Jul-2005, 06:14 PM |
| Here's a site for you: http://www.bluegrasspreservation.org/ The founder, Ewell Ferguson, does a radio show from Gassaway, W. Virginia that is also available as podcasts. The whole show is made up of music he records at local shows with mostly local bands. I've become a big fan because it's raw, no studio wizardry here, and the music is wonderful. The bands range from kids to old timers but the quality is remarkably good and the hour goes by really fast. He has a long list of songs on his download page that can be downloaded for like $1 each so you might take a look to see if any of it interests you. I was glad to see young bands playing that wonderful old music, that's the only way it'll survive. |
| Posted by: stoirmeil 12-Jul-2005, 10:07 AM |
| I hope this is the right place to put this. Here is an extraordinary site devoted to the single ballead "Tam Lin," put up by a woman who has researched and collected all sorts of versions, including some new world variants. http://www.tam-lin.org/ |
| Posted by: Haldur 12-Jul-2005, 02:40 PM |
| Thank you both for these wonderful links...much more work than I've done here lately! "Tam Lin" is a beautiful song, have heard it several times here on HR (Melbourne Scottish Fiddle Club's version) and always love to crank the song when it comes on. Thank you both for your posts! |