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Celtic Radio Community > Philosophy, Science & Religion > God And E. T.


Posted by: WizardofOwls 18-Nov-2005, 07:09 PM
Recently, in the God... and Science thread, Nightchild and I had a very interesting exchange. For the benefit of those who may not be keeping up with that thread, here are the pertinent bits (I have edited out some parts which do not pertain to this particular thread)...

QUOTE (Nightchild @ 14-Nov-2005, 02:12 PM)

1. It's said god does not lie. (Let it be he can't or just he plainly doesn't, I don't care...)
2. In terms of law, not telling something counts as a lie. (I'd go with that even outside law terms.)
3. Taking the bible it says god created heaven and earth, he created all kinds of animals (including mankind), he created the sun and the stars. Noone is ever mentioned there was created some other life forms on other planets.
4. Since god doesn't lie (as stated in 1.) and don't telling something true is included in lieing (as stated in 2.) there is no life on other planets (since this would be included in 3. else).

What if we ever encountered life on some other planet? Wouldn't that be a prove that the bible can't be read literally? Not that I claim to ever have met an alien, I'm just wondering...

QUOTE WizardofOwls @ 14-Nov-2005, 04:40 PM

Leaving out information does NOT make it a lie! If you told me you had a child, but you did NOT tell me all of the intimate details about how the child was conceived, the 9 months of misery you went through carrying it, or the 26 hours of pain and torment you went through in delivery, that does not mean that you did not have that child! Nor would it change the fact that you gave birth to this child if you did not tell me that you had other children in addition to this one! It just means that you thought those other details were irrelevant to the discussion.

If God chose to create life on other planets but chose not to tell us that He had done so, that would NOT make Him a liar, just as you not telling me the fact that you had given birth to other children would not mean that you did not give birth to a particular child. It would simply mean that you (and He) felt that it was not relevant to the topic at hand. Would the existence or non-existence of life on other worlds have any relevance to the salvation of your soul? Would it change the fact that Jesus was born, lived, and died to give us the opportunity to restore ourselves to a right relationship with God? Nope! The fact is that such a detail would be completely irrelevant to the discussion of God and His infinite grace, and so would not require mentioning in a book devoted solely to the purpose of helping us find forgiveness for our sins.

Sorry, dear, your logic is flawed.

QUOTE Nightchild @ 14-Nov-2005, 05:00 PM

See, that's what science is. You find an idea, try to prove it and sometimes you are right and sometimes someone finds some mistakes in you premises. That's how life is. But as I said, I was just wondering...


So I would like your opinions. Do you think that there is life on other planets? Does the Bible preclude the possibility of life on other planets, since it does not mention there being life anywhere else? I'd love to hear what you think.

As Nightchild would say, I'm just wondering... smile.gif

Posted by: Nightchild 19-Nov-2005, 12:27 PM
Well, I still think that not telling something true means lieing.
But I thought about your point. (I really like your analogy, btw) I still am pretty sure there might be intelligent life somewhere out there. But then again I think that my 2nd point wasn't quite right.
Taking it completely as I stated it that would mean that we permanently lie to one another, since we don't tell everyone everything. This would mean that we'd know every little detail of the lives of everyone we ever met, maybe even of everyone who ever lived.
The statement can be corrected by adding something: A lie is something true that is not told although asked for.
Sticking with your example that would be it was a lie if you asked me to tell you everything about the birth of my (not existent wink.gif) child and I'd mention nothing about it being painful although it was. It would be no lie to not mention the pains if you didn't asked me for it directly or indirectly by asking me about the deails of it.
Considering that the existence of life on other planets would mean nothing as to the bible being true or false, since noone ever asked the christian god whether or not he created other life forms on other planets and noone asked him to tell us about all the details of his working.
So this is my point of view explained completely. Hopefully you understood what I meant smile.gif

Posted by: Raven 21-Nov-2005, 03:42 PM
A lie of omision would be determined by intent.

If you omit pertinant details in order to sway an opinion or perception, or if your omision was with intent to defraud.

ET phone home

Mikel

Posted by: SCShamrock 21-Nov-2005, 06:57 PM
I want to make my addition, but don't have time for details such as chapter/verse. I'm sure Wizz can fill in those blanks.

Jesus did tell his disciples that he had "another flock, not of this flock." That has been interpreted in a number of ways, but I think it may well mean life on other planets.

Also, I think it is Ezekiel that there is that pesky vision that is strangely futuristic, and has been noted by many a prominent theologian. Again, I think it could have well been visitors, but wouldn't assert that it is or isn't.

Lastly, the pyramids have confounded mankind forever. Why, pray tell, is there no accurate record of their construction or method of construction?

Ok, got to go, but I wanted to ramble here first. I hope this discussion gets going!

Posted by: WizardofOwls 21-Nov-2005, 07:46 PM
QUOTE (SCShamrock @ 21-Nov-2005, 07:57 PM)
Jesus did tell his disciples that he had "another flock, not of this flock." That has been interpreted in a number of ways, but I think it may well mean life on other planets.

The verse you are thinking of is John 10:16, which says

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold and one shepherd."

I always took this to mean Jesus was talking to Jews, and he was implying that there would be a Gentile flock, and that - in the end - they would become one, under the Good Shepherd, though I am FAR from secure in that opinion and could easily be persuaded otherwise! smile.gif

So, if there WERE life on other worlds, would it look like us? According to the Bible, man was created in His image. So would He continue in that same mindset when it came to populating other worlds? Or are we special in that we alone bear His image?

Another thought on this topic. I am thinking that if there WERE life elsewhere, God would most likely have offered them a similar choice to the one He offered us: to fall or not to fall... to eat of the fruit or not to eat... to obey or disobey. So unless our hypothetical "aliens" were made of stronger stuf than we are, they most likely fell too. So if they too fell, then Jesus would most likely have offered Himself a sacrifice for them too! sad.gif A very sad thought. Almost enough to make me hope there is no life elsewhere!

Opinions?

Posted by: Raven 22-Nov-2005, 10:31 AM
I always took that the same way Allen but.....

Statistically if you do not believe in God and believe in evolution (per Carl Sagan). The odds are litterally Billions and Billions that there would be other life in the universe.

I think that if God wanted to create other life on other planets the odds go to a sure thing smile.gif


Mikel

Posted by: WizardofOwls 22-Nov-2005, 10:39 AM
QUOTE (Raven @ 22-Nov-2005, 11:31 AM)
Statistically if you do not believe in God and believe in evolution (per Carl Sagan). The odds are litterally Billions and Billions that there would be other life in the universe.

HAH! biggrin.gif Now I can't get Carl Sagan's voice out of my head saying there are Billions and Billions of stars in the universe! You did that on purpose didn't you??? You should be ashamed of yourself, going around planting earworms in people's heads!

Posted by: Herrerano 22-Nov-2005, 10:53 AM
Crimeny!!!!

What about intelligent life on THIS planet?

The search continues.


Leo cool.gif

Posted by: Nightchild 22-Nov-2005, 02:05 PM
There is, isn't there? Didn't anyone tell dolfins were intelligent life forms? wink.gif

Posted by: Raven 23-Nov-2005, 01:09 PM
QUOTE (Herrerano @ 22-Nov-2005, 11:53 AM)
Crimeny!!!!

What about intelligent life on THIS planet?

The search continues.


Leo cool.gif

Que Lastima!

Hows it going Leo tongue.gif

Mikel

Posted by: Raven 23-Nov-2005, 01:11 PM
Yes Allen, I should be ashamed wink.gif

Peace

Mikel

Posted by: SCShamrock 23-Nov-2005, 10:03 PM
QUOTE (WizardofOwls @ 21-Nov-2005, 08:46 PM)


1. I always took this to mean Jesus was talking to Jews, and he was implying that there would be a Gentile flock, and that - in the end - they would become one, under the Good Shepherd, though I am FAR from secure in that opinion and could easily be persuaded otherwise! smile.gif

2. So, if there WERE life on other worlds, would it look like us? According to the Bible, man was created in His image. So would He continue in that same mindset when it came to populating other worlds? Or are we special in that we alone bear His image?


1. So you think Jesus was unclear to the Jews that he was here to save the world, and not just them? I don't think he needed to be so vague considering his whole view on loving your neighbor, and the explanation of what a neighbor is. I could be wrong. The Jews knew full well who and what gentiles were, and as such had no need of them being alluded to, as if the outright mention of them were to bring some calamity to the Son of God.

2. Since the bible explains that God is spirit, why would you assume that man being created in His image meant the physical appearance? When speaking to whom I would presume is Jesus (we can delve into this if you like) about "Let us create man in our image", I can only believe that He was referring to the soul, with all its innate abilities to love, think, rationalize, etc.

Posted by: John Clements 01-Jan-2008, 02:22 PM
It's not God or ET, it's...

Atmos 31-December-2007

The end of the year has arrived at an astonishing speed, and time seems to be going at an ever increasingly fast pace. You can look back at your personal experiences and those in general that have affected your life, and on the face of it for many people it would not appear to have moved much further forward. That is the outer illusion brought about by the continued confusion that exists. It is also because the slow painstaking challenges that are forever presented to us in our plans to remove the last cabal, do not allow us to reveal anything but a general outline of our plans.

However, much progress has been made which is not apparent to you, but known to our allies and us. It has been a long road that has led us to this point in your evolution, but in reality one that has really taken off since the Millennium. Human consciousness has grown immensely since that period of time and the great awakening has truly begun. It is going forward faster than ever, and is your guarantee of success in bringing about conditions that will result in major changes.

This coming year promises to be the one that finally delivers what you have been seeking, and that is your release from the domination of the dark forces. Look around the world and see that it is currently in a state of flux, as the new energies for change grow stronger. The dark and the Light clash but there can only be one winner in such a contest. The Light may have been subdued for eons of time, but now it has risen up and there will be no stopping the fulfilment of its promise. The first part of this year will see a number of attempts to remove the dark, and each one will weaken their position until there is complete success. Eventually the people will have a great bearing on the outcome, as their collective power can be formidable.

There is so much happening that is positive, but of course your media is controlled and concentrates on the fear laden news to overshadow it. Fortunately, the good news does circulate sufficiently that you are now better informed than for some considerable time. Many major events are playing out and none more important than the decline in the banking system, which is seriously caught up in the collapse of the financial markets. All of these events are preparing the way for a major change in money matters, and at the right time they will be ripe for the introduction of the benefits that are outlined in NESARA.

The war in the Middle East is still taking place against the background of disquiet and discontent by those supporting the U.S. The longer it continues the more likely it is that support will be withdrawn, and it will begin to force the hand of those who wish to carry on with their plan to take over that complete area. The U.S. has extended its troops and resources too much, and already struggles to provide a sufficient back up. It is draining the coffers of money that is denied for more worthwhile causes, such as your medical care policies which are a disgrace in the Western World. These facts are not going unnoticed, and they are turning the people against your present administration because of their suffering.

People power is far greater than you can imagine, which is why for millennia of time you have been imprisoned in an ever growing draconian society, bound by laws that deny your freedom under the Constitution. People can only be pushed so far and now there is a quiet rebellion amongst those who have experienced the harsh hand of the law, and seen its unfairness and lack of justice. There is nothing more powerful than people who band together, in a common cause from which they gain strength and impetus to achieve their goals.

The life and the duty of those who lead should be inspired by a spiritual impulse that sees all as equal, and endeavours to bring people together by attending to their needs. The gap between the rich and poor has never been greater, but with our coming that will completely change with a fairer distribution of all wealth. Greed and avarice have been rampant in recent years, and fed by the dark forces that have lifted materialism to a new level. It is grotesque, and an insult to all of you that strive for just the basic needs to survive. That will quickly change with First Contact and we know that happy and contented people are the most likely to give their support to us. People need to be assured of our intentions, and also see that the results are beneficial and fulfil our promises.

Our coming is one totally of a spiritual nature, as all members of the Galactic Federation recognise the soul within each Being regardless of colour or creed. We acknowledge your God selves and see your potential to rise up out of duality, and we are here to help you in any conceivable way to move onto the path of Ascension. Once your material needs are covered there will be more opportunity to consider your spiritual life, and there will be help for everyone that aspires to lift themselves up. The truth of your past history and your destiny will be clearly explained, so that each of you has an equal opportunity to make a clear choice as to what you wish to do. As we have often made known to you, there is no pressure on you to choose one way more than another. You create your own reality, and we shall always honour your choice.

The year ahead promises so much and will be the turning point in your lives. The cycle must end within a few years, and you have a most informative period ahead of you. For many years we have established excellent contacts with those having an ability to pass on our messages. We have prepared the way, and our presence can hardly have gone unnoticed since we decided to show you our craft travelling through your skies. Be assured that although your Government has developed some similar to ours, in number they are very small and what you see are largely craft of our Federation. We work constantly to deplete the effects of radiation that is poisoning you and your Earth. We have done so ever since you exploded your first atomic bombs, and but for our help your Earth would already be beyond recovery.

I am Atmos from Sirius, and pleased to come at such a special time when you set out your plans for the coming year. I hope you will remember that you have the power to bring change, and look to the highest manifestation of your desires so that all will benefit. Your collective energies do have a strong bearing on what takes place, and now your Light is shining out brightly it is a time to express desires that reflect all that is necessary to lift Man up. Think of Man as One in consciousness and that your contribution will help others to find the Light. Believe that everything is possible, and place no limitations on your vision of the future.

I shall leave you with the Blessings and Good Wishes from all of my companions, that you have a wonderfully fulfilling New Year as it already promises so much for you. Let the Light of your life shine out forever on all around you.

Thank you Atmos.

Posted by: John Clements 25-Jul-2008, 09:18 AM
Dr. Edgar Mitchell (Apollo 14) tells the truth about UFO’s….

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RhNdxdveK7c

Posted by: Camac 25-Jul-2008, 09:56 AM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 25-Jul-2008, 10:18 AM)
Dr. Edgar Mitchell (Apollo 14) tells the truth about UFO’s….

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RhNdxdveK7c

JC.

I watched some of the vid and I will agree on the fact that we are not alone. Not beacuse Mitchell says so but because it makes absolutely no sense that we are the only ones in the Universe. If we are then 'GOD" is playing one hell of a joke. As to us being visited. Well the jury is still out on that one. It is of course possible and if so I figure they took one good look around and said "FORGET IT"

David

Posted by: Patch 25-Jul-2008, 10:22 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 25-Jul-2008, 04:56 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 25-Jul-2008, 10:18 AM)
Dr. Edgar Mitchell (Apollo 14) tells the truth about UFO’s….

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RhNdxdveK7c

JC.

I watched some of the vid and I will agree on the fact that we are not alone. Not beacuse Mitchell says so but because it makes absolutely no sense that we are the only ones in the Universe. If we are then 'GOD" is playing one hell of a joke. As to us being visited. Well the jury is still out on that one. It is of course possible and if so I figure they took one good look around and said "FORGET IT"

David

I agree. We are More of a threat to ourselves than to E.T.'s for the time being. I just saw a show last night on the History channel about "reverse engineering" and UFO's. The timing and the surge in technology are interesting.

Slàinte,    

Patch    


Posted by: Camac 25-Jul-2008, 10:34 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 25-Jul-2008, 11:22 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 25-Jul-2008, 04:56 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 25-Jul-2008, 10:18 AM)
Dr. Edgar Mitchell (Apollo 14) tells the truth about UFO’s….

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RhNdxdveK7c

JC.

I watched some of the vid and I will agree on the fact that we are not alone. Not beacuse Mitchell says so but because it makes absolutely no sense that we are the only ones in the Universe. If we are then 'GOD" is playing one hell of a joke. As to us being visited. Well the jury is still out on that one. It is of course possible and if so I figure they took one good look around and said "FORGET IT"

David

I agree. We are More of a threat to ourselves than to E.T.'s for the time being. I just saw a show last night on the History channel about "reverse engineering" and UFO's. The timing and the surge in technology are interesting.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;
I too have found the coincidence between Roswell and the surge in technology interesting.



Camac.

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