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Celtic Radio Community > Wales > Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau


Posted by: Siarls 11-May-2005, 09:49 AM
I saw a post in the Scotland section about the Scottish National Anthem and it got me thinking about the hymn we even sing in church that often brings a tear to my eye and makes my hair stand on edge...

Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau

Recently, some Welsh celebrities got together with Welsh-speaking celebrities to learn our National Hymn in The Big Welsh Challenge
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/bigwelshchallenge/

So, are you confident to do the same thing as these celebrities?!

Posted by: gwenynen 11-May-2005, 01:30 PM
Siarls, it's me again. (Please, others do join us!)

I watched The Big Welsh Challenge too. It seemed like they made a grand show for just learning to sing Hen Wlad. I thought they were going to learn to speak Welsh in a short time with the help from those Welsh speakers. Well, maybe it'll be followed by more programs of this kind.

I didn't mean to start with a negative tone. Here, let me fix it. I love Hen Wlad. I know what you mean you feel so moved when you sing it. I especially like the third verse which tells how the Welsh language has lived against all odds.

In fact it was the first Welsh song I've learned (with Bryn Terfel's CD.) The words are hard so it was such a struggle to understand them. But recently I read an article about the song in a Welsh magazine; the words were explained thoroughly together with the history behind the song.

I hope all the Welsh learners will learn it and cherish it in their hearts.

Posted by: Cù Dubh 11-May-2005, 01:39 PM
Does anyone remember John Redwood aka Mr.Spock 'singing' along to the Welsh national anthem & making a total ass of himself?

Posted by: Siarls 11-May-2005, 02:45 PM
There will be more programmes of the Big Welsh Challenge - I think over the next 12 months, the celebrities intend to be fluent.

I only know the 1st verse and chorus off by heart. I am well impressed that you know more, Gwenynen.

I have seen quite a few people trip up over the National Hymn, but unlike Star Spangled Banner, it's offensive not to sing along. Although, people overlooked Gavin Henderson at the Chwe Gwlad. I was irritated he didn't even bother to mime!

Posted by: gwenynen 11-May-2005, 07:09 PM
Thanks, Cú Dubh for posting here. No, I didn't know about Mr. Spock's failed attempt at Hen Wlad. Was it pretty bad? Why on earth did he even try?

Siarls, I'm glad to hear there will be more to the Big Welsh Challenge. Please pardon my premature verdict. I hope the celebs will do well. It'll be an encouragement to learners and may motivate others to start learning Welsh. One of the challengers, the rock singer, his pronunciations were TERRIBLE! If he will be able to speak Welsh reasonablly well in a year, that'll indeed be an accomplishment!

I don't know all of Hen Wlad by heart, only some of it and the chorus.

All the rugby players ought to know it by heart; I thought it was part of the sport (for the Welsh.)

Posted by: gwenynen 11-May-2005, 07:16 PM
Cu Dubh, I'm sorry the stroke above "u" in my previous post is facing the wrong way! I didn't see it till I posted and letters got bigger. I'm afraid my keybord isn't smart enough to type it.

Posted by: WizardofOwls 11-May-2005, 07:59 PM
QUOTE (Cù Dubh @ 11-May-2005, 03:39 PM)
Does anyone remember John Redwood aka Mr.Spock 'singing' along to the Welsh national anthem & making a total ass of himself?

Hi Cù! As an avid Star Trek fan, I'm just a little confused. Mr. Spock was played by a man named Leonard Nimoy. Who is John Redwood?

Posted by: Eiric 12-May-2005, 12:42 AM
As me french teacher's from Britanny I can sing Mae hen wlad ... in Breton, and I know the first verse in Welsh anyway...

Posted by: Cù Dubh 12-May-2005, 02:42 AM
QUOTE
Hi Cù! As an avid Star Trek fan, I'm just a little confused. Mr. Spock was played by a man named Leonard Nimoy. Who is John Redwood?

He was the Welsh secretary of state and effectively the most powerful politician in Wales pre Welsh Assembly. I can't remember the occasion - A Welsh tory conference or something like that. Anyway at the end everyone started to sing the Welsh national anthem. Redwood not knowing a single word of Welsh started to mime in the most unconvincing manner. Making himself look i right prat. I think it would have shown more respect if he'd have stood reverently in silence. He's nicknamed Spock because of the uncanny resemblence.
Whadaya think...http://www.answers.com/topic/john-redwood
I don't think he was very well liked in Wales.

Posted by: Cù Dubh 12-May-2005, 02:44 AM
QUOTE
Cu Dubh, I'm sorry the stroke above "u" in my previous post is facing the wrong way!

Hehe. That's ok. cool.gif I enjoy nosing around the Welsh section from time to time, if that's ok.

Posted by: Siarls 12-May-2005, 08:14 AM
Redwood's attempts at Hen Wlad is often replayed on Welsh TV. He wasn't very well liked in Wales and generally, the Tories aren't. Until this year, Wales was Tory-free. 3 Tory MPs now. Angers me. Why on Earth would a Welshman vote Tory?????

I was watching Wales Today and a Tory MP and a Lib Dem MP began to argue over who was the larger party in Wales. The Tory MP made a mistake and made a right idiot of himself. Can't remember who they were but the dialogue was something like this...
Lib Dem: We're now the 2nd largest party in Wales
Tory: 3rd largest
Lib Dem: I think you'll find that Lib Dems are larger than the Conservatives. We have 4 seats and you only have 3
Tory: sarcastic tone:Oh wow, 1 seat more.

The National Hymn is a huge part of rugby games. It's the equivalent to that show New Zealand puts on with the Maori dancing. It annoys me that people over look Henderson because another rugby player would be trashed by the media if he did not sing along.

Oh, and I remember reading somewhere that the Breton National Anthem is just the Hen Wlad translated into Breton. Can you demonstrate any of it to us, Ioan Eiric?

Posted by: Cù Dubh 12-May-2005, 01:23 PM
QUOTE
Tory: sarcastic tone:Oh wow, 1 seat more.

Sounds like a Tory in fact it sounds like a politician. Funny how they're are no losers after an election. rolleyes.gif
Wizard: Did you know the Conservative (Tory) party gets it's name from the Gaelic. If i remember correctly it comes from the word tòir meaning persue.

Posted by: Siarls 12-May-2005, 02:36 PM
I thought it was Irish Gaelic, though. Something to do with stealing sheep?

Posted by: gwenynen 12-May-2005, 04:00 PM
I confess I didn't know John Redwood was the former Welsh Secretary of State, and the actor who playd Mr. Spock was called Leonard Nimoy. I had the ridiculous picture in my head of Mr. Spock with his pointy ears trying to sing Hen Wlad!

I'm afraid I'm not a Star Trek fan though I used to watch it in Japan when I was growing up. (It was dubbed in Japanese, for Wizard's information.)

I've decided to learn all three verses of Hen Wlad by heart. I can't criticize other people for not doing it if I myself don't! I love Hen Wlad anyway so it won't be painful. And if I ever happend to be in the place to sing it with the Welsh, I'll be able to join them!

Posted by: Siarls 12-May-2005, 04:39 PM
And boy we will love you! I don't think there's a greater compliment to our identity and culture.

Posted by: Cù Dubh 13-May-2005, 02:11 AM
That's right Siarls it's Irish Gaelic. I believe the term was applied to Irish outlaws in the 15thc.
I usually write the word Gaelic for Irish Gaelic & Gaidhlig for Scots Gaelic. As both words are pronounced differently.

Posted by: WizardofOwls 13-May-2005, 03:53 AM
I don't know if this is just an Americanism or if it is international, but I recall reading somewhere that, technically, Scottish Gaelic should be referred to as Gaelic and Irish Gaelic as Irish. I've never even heard the Welsh natioanl anthem (shame on me!). And no, I didn't know that Tory came from Gaelic! Very interesting!

Posted by: Siarls 13-May-2005, 07:00 AM
Sorry, when I see the word Gaelic, I automatically assume Scots Gaelic because in Welsh=
Scots Gaelic Gaeleg (yr Alban)
Irish Gaelic Gwyddeleg

I am shocked that you of all people, Wizard, have not heard the Welsh National Anthem... http://www.wngga.org/HenWlad.html (only works if you have QuickTime).

Posted by: gwenynen 13-May-2005, 04:32 PM
Siarls, I've memorized the 1st & 2nd verses and am working on the last half of the 3rd. Bryn Terfel pronounces 'beirdd' 'bAIrdd.' Is that how you say?

There sure are difficult words, 'gwladgarwyr' for example. I can somewhat manage 'r' if it's at the beginning of a word or followed by a vowel. But I can never roll my r's in '-rdd' or '-rd' So, 'bardd' and 'hardd' are unpronounceable for me. Do you have any remedy?


Posted by: WizardofOwls 13-May-2005, 08:13 PM
Thank you, Siarls, for sharing that with me! It was absolutley beautiful! Reminded me of some of the old hymns.

Posted by: Siarls 14-May-2005, 06:19 AM
Just don't pronounce hardd and bardd the English-language way. A, unless it has a to bach, will always be pronounced like the A in hAt or cAt.

Posted by: gwenynen 18-May-2005, 06:14 PM
I'm afraid I'm hopeless. My r's would not roll before 'd' no matter how hard I try. At least I've memorized all the verses. Now I'm ready for a rugby game in Wales!

Posted by: Siarls 28-May-2005, 03:54 PM
A lot of people can't roll the Rs. I can't roll my Rs after T or D. It's increasingly acceptable to use English Rs. Just make sure that it's an English R you're pronouncing and NOT an English vowel (if you know what I mean?)

Although while watching Star Wars IV, I noticed that some of the British officers (funny how bad guys are always British in American films!) roll their Rs.

Posted by: gwenynen 28-May-2005, 04:46 PM
QUOTE (Siarls @ 28-May-2005, 05:54 PM)
Just make sure that it's an English R you're pronouncing and NOT an English vowel (if you know what I mean?)


I'm afraid I don't know what you mean.

I hope rolled r's won't someday disappear from Welsh because they sound soooooo wonderful.

Posted by: Siarls 29-May-2005, 05:30 AM
It won't be for a long time the rolled R leaves Welsh, if it ever does. A lot of people are proud of the rolled R. I am.

I think you should forget what I said about English vowels, etc. In British English, people tend not to pronounce Rs, so "mother" is pronounced "motha". But I remember American friends telling me that they pronounced Rs more than the British do.

What I meant though was that in English, AR is pronounced as a long A, the equivalent to the Welsh Â. However, the A in a Welsh AR is always pronounced like the A in cAt, despite the R. So even if you cannot roll your Rs, please do not pronounce a word like hardd as hâdd.

Have you studied the "TÔ BACH" yet? (The "little roof" above vowels)

Posted by: gwenynen 29-May-2005, 06:28 PM
I'm afraid using 'cat' to show the Welsh pronunciation is confusing because Americans pronounce it differently from the English. I don't know how you can roll your r's before 'd' or 'dd' as these sounds stop r's vibration. I'm sure it's difficult to explain it by writing. And even if you showed it to me in person, I don't think I can do it. So, I accept my limitations and remember not to say 'hardd' as 'hâdd'.

I learned that ^ means a long vowel sound.

Posted by: Siarls 30-May-2005, 02:23 PM
In parts of Wales, they pronounce hardd as hêdd!! Once you become more acquainted with Welsh, I'm sure it'll fall into place.

I feel so restricted by the net, because I am very vocal and verbal in my tutorials.

Posted by: gwenynen 07-Dec-2005, 09:40 AM
I had to write about this amazing occurrence! Last night, my 12 year old daughter begged me to teach her how to sing Hen Wlad as I'm singing it all the time. I wrote down the words phonetically and helped her. To my utter delight, she could sing so well! She could even roll all the r's (even 'tra') and her ch's and ll's weren't too bad either.

She's the only one in the family with a singing voice and is often asked to sing Japanese songs at school. She is so excited she can sing a Welsh song that she's going to sing it to her class when she's practiced some more. Just think! Hen Wlad sang at a small American elementary school! (Maybe the first in the Oklahoma history!) And come to think of it, it was the first time for me to hear someone else sing it in person. It was quite fascinating. I can't imagine what I'd feel if I heard it at the Millennium Stadium!

She wanted to know the meaning too. I gave her a general translation though 'gwrol ryfelwyr' maybe a bit too much for a child. At least she knows what 'hen iaith' means.

Posted by: Antwn 07-Dec-2005, 12:41 PM
I think its great your daughter is singing Hen Wlad in her school. It would be a great thing to hear Welsh sung in an American elementary school indeed. You know Gwen, you might consider teaching her Calon Lan too. Not only is that a traditional Welsh song, but its lyrics are inspiring. .....see below. The Irish/American celtic music band Solas recorded a song The Miner's Life using the tune from Calon Lan. Too bad they didn't record Calon Lan itself!

I had to chuckle when I read back to Siarls' post about the English actors rolling their R's on Star Trek (hadn't seen this thread in a while). I've noticed the same thing. I think they were probably the Shakesperian trained breed. I've noticed there seems to be an upper class tendency to roll R's among the English, though only at certain times. I remember when I saw the first Harry Potter film, all the British actors pronounced the last name "Potta" and the Rs in Harry almost had an L sound....like Hairly Potta almost.

Uh Oh, I hope I'm not getting stuck in bad pronunciation habits, bardd like cat and hat? I was saying the bar in bardd like going to a bar, not like the "bar" in baritone. Which is it?

Gwen, I've noticed that the ei as in beirdd is pronounced by some like bairdd and others like beyrdd. Also the eu in dweud is pronounced by some like dwaid and then I heard someone on Newyddion say dweyd and gwneyd.

Calon Lan

Nid wy'n gofyn bywyd moethus
Aur y byd na'i berlau mân
Gofyn rwyf am calon hapus
Calon onest, calon lân.

Cytgan:
Calon lân yn llawn daioni
Tecach yw na'r lili dlos
Does ond calon lân all ganu
Canu'r dydd a chanu'r nos.

Pe dymunwn olud bydol
Chwim adenydd iddo sydd
Golud calon lân rinweddol
Yn dwyn bythol elw fydd.

Cytgan:

Hwyr a bore fy nymuniad
Esgyn ar adenydd cân
Ar i Dduw, er mwyn fy Ngheidwad
Roddi imi galon lân.

Cytgan:

Posted by: Mihangel 08-Dec-2005, 12:27 AM
Gwenynen
You must be so proud of your daughter. Your story gave me a tingle up the spine and made me homesick at the same time!

Michael

Posted by: Mihangel 08-Dec-2005, 12:36 AM
Antwn

I so agree with you about the hymn Calon Lan. It is truly inspiring. I do remember listening to that sung with so much fervour in the Chapel many times. I have heard it several times and at the moment I have it on CD by Katherine Jenkins.

I agree with the rolled "r" sound and some of my teachers will roll it with great emphasis but others just twill the sound which I find I can manage.

Unfortuately my English education damaged any ability of me to pronounce the "R" in the word ruler for example without a distinct inflexion and I just cannot change it, but in speaking Welsh (or attempting to) there are no problems.

Michael

Posted by: Siarls 08-Dec-2005, 07:45 AM
I in fact say dwêd and sometimes dêd, and with gwneud, i vary from gnêd to nêd!

I was delighted to hear that your daughter's singing Hen Wlad! I am almost reduced to tears when I hear Hen Wlad.
Did you use my syllabic structure of Hen Wlad or was that too hard?

I cannot sing, so I tend to mouth the words because I do not want to ruin our graceful national hymn (which is actually sung in churches in Wales as a hymn), but I am considering singing lessons just so I can proudly express my love for my homeland!!!!


Posted by: gwenynen 08-Dec-2005, 08:50 AM
Children are just amazing in their ability in picking up languages. I wish I had their sponge-like brain! I did use the syllabic structure. Now I sing in that way all the time. When my son plays Hen Wlad, I start singin no matter what I'm doing! Never mind my shaky voice!

OK, I'll work on Calon Lan next. I know the hardship of rolled r's. I couldn't do it at all but I think I can do better now (not completely of course.) So with practice maybe we can all improve.

It'll be great if you could take singing lessons along with your piano lessons.

Posted by: austaff 08-Dec-2005, 11:10 PM
The program I purchased from Lingua Shop Teach me Welsh has a vocab section which gives you a word and the audio will pronounce the word in Welsh for you
so you can hear the different inflections used in the Welsh language, there is also a section where you can speak into a mic and it will tell you if you are pronouncing the word correctly. I would recommend it to all Welsh learners. It is an inexpensive program for under $100 walkman.gif And the speakers are all welsh so it is pure Welsh you hear.

Posted by: gwenynen 09-Dec-2005, 08:56 AM
This is the program I want very much but it doesn't work with MAC (unless you buy an expensive 'thingy' to make it conpatible.) sad.gif

Posted by: Siarls 23-Dec-2005, 11:46 AM
Gyda llaw, ydy'n wir bod Emyn Cenedlaethol Llydaw yn gyfieithiad uniongyrchol Hen Wlad o Gymraeg i Lydaweg?
By the way, is it true that the Breton National Hymn is a direct translation of Hen Wlad from Welsh to Breton?

Dw i'n sicr bod yn wir.
I'm sure it's true.

Posted by: Antwn 27-Dec-2005, 10:24 AM
Same tune Siarls, don't know about the lyrics

Posted by: Siarls 24-Feb-2006, 07:19 PM
Apparently, yes, the Breton National Anthem is just Mae Hen Wlad in Breton... http://david.national-anthems.net/bri.htm

Today in lit class, we were asked to write a poem we know off by heart, thinking I was being smart, I wrote Hen Wlad to the disappointment of the lecturer. She was expecting something more academic than the most common poem of all.

Posted by: gwenynen 25-Feb-2006, 09:11 AM
Cyfareddol! To hear Hen Wlad as another country's anthem!

Posted by: Siarls 26-Feb-2006, 07:55 AM
Mae Cymru'n ysbrydoli'r byd Celtaidd!! biggrin.gif

Posted by: gwenynen 09-Apr-2006, 09:38 PM
You've got to listen to Bryn Terfel delves into the history and power of Land of My Fathers. The siging sent chill down my spine!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/arts/pip/r7fgt/

Posted by: Mihangel 10-Apr-2006, 07:13 PM
Gwenynen
Diolch yn fawr ar gyfer fi i’r BBC rhaglen ar “Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau”. Mae wedi yn gywir rhyfeddol.
Cymaint emosiwn!





------------------------------
Thank you so much for alerting me to the BBC programme on “Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau”. Truly wonderful.
So much emotion!

Posted by: Siarls 28-Feb-2007, 04:11 PM
I found this site:
http://david.national-anthems.net/wal.htm

The sheet music is very simple though - I'm approaching Grade 4 in piano now.
I have been practising ready for St. David's Day.
Is the sheet music you bought for your son to play as simple as this, Gwen?

There is this site about the anthem - BBC is always a brilliant source, its sections on Welsh History are amazing too:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/music/sites/anthem/

You have to go to this site to hear the first ever recording of Hen Wlad and the first ever record in the Welsh Language:
http://www.llgc.org.uk/drych/drych_s044.htm


Posted by: Dopplershift 04-Apr-2008, 12:59 PM
Just beautiful.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=SlAySr3rjcw&feature=related

The music I mean, the team are just scary!

Regards

John

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