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Celtic Radio Community > Health Matters > Dysfunctional Families


Posted by: pretentiouswombat 28-Feb-2008, 10:46 AM
This thread is a carry-over from the depression/suicide thread. Although many of us have family members who might cause us to experience depression or think of suicide, this is not really the main topic. I think there are a lot of us out there with family situations that cause us grief and we just want someone to talk to about things. I'm sure y'all know that none of this is professional advice, just a nice friendly sounding board.


Posted by: ctbard 28-Feb-2008, 11:42 AM
Well, I don't think my son causes depression, he just ads to the already crappy feeling.

Posted by: pretentiouswombat 28-Feb-2008, 11:48 AM
My daughter caused such a row in the family last year (right before her 21st birthday, I might add) that she told me she was disowning me. Unfortunately, in order to go along with that (after all, that's what she wants) my 10 year old is now unhappy because I won't invite big sister to little sister's birthday evening at Dave & Buster's. I told the little one that her sister does not want me to be part of her family; therefore, until she changes that situation, there is no reason for me to include her in a family outing.

My dad told me that every family has one black sheep and apparently she's the one in ours. sigh.

Posted by: ctbard 28-Feb-2008, 11:59 AM
every family it seems has a black sheep, it's so bad that I cant have him at any family get togethers because he has stolen from every one of them and no one wants him around, he's been into drugs, drinking, been to prison already, has 1 child he cant see, doesnt want to see? and two that was given up for adoption, it really bites when someone asks me if I have grand children, what do you say?
I have a daughter thats great, complete opposite of her brother.

Posted by: pretentiouswombat 28-Feb-2008, 12:14 PM
Yeah, I have six kids. The oldest two (34 and 24) are responsible adults. The 21 year old just looks at life from some other dimension, I guess. When she had her big blow up with me, her friend said that she always felt rejected and never praised for the good things she did. What a crock! This is the daughter who was a dancer for 7 years, who we bragged on and told everyone we knew to come to see her perform. She got her black belt in Kenpo karate and we bragged on her to everyone then. She is a talented costume designer and, most recently, last year our local Borders store let her decorate their display windows for the Harry Potter 7th book release. She did a great job and everyone praised her work. She made a costume for that night and, once again, everyone told her how great it was and how original.

The only thing she's criticized for is not having any ambition. I have given her leads for people who are interested in her work. She never follows up. She is my one homeschooling "dropout" (if you can actually drop out). I encouraged her to study for a GED since I really couldn't in good conscience graduate her. I bought her the materials and told her I would help her - she just won't follow through.

In contrast, her older sister (who was also totally home educated) got scholarships and grants to a private college, graduated Cum Laude from the Honors Program, and has gone on to be an assistant lighting designer for two years at the state theatre of NC. She wanted a break from theatre but, did she move home? No, she got an apartment and went to work for a bookstore where she did some part-time work last year and now she's manager over the cafe. Not big bucks or anything but it shows the girls has the concept of responsibility down, that's for sure.

Another thing about DD#2 is that I was the one person who stuck up for her when she was living with me and I had to rush her to the ER one Sunday morning after she had cut herself up so badly she couldn't stop the bleeding on her arms. I don't know if she's still cutting but now she's smoking. Her dad and older sister wanted to send her away to rehab but I knew that the reason she had ended up in the ER was because she had taken half an Ambien to sleep and, when it didn't help, she took the other half. (Although I had warned her not to. I was afraid it was too potent) She began hearing voices and the voices told her to get all these different items to start cutting herself. She had the serrated bread knife, razor blades, I don't know what else. She snapped out of it when the voices told her to come after me and cut me, too. (I have to wonder if that would stop her now). So, here I was, the one person who just remained calm and took her to the ER, stayed with her through everything, and never criticized her for what happened. This is what I get in return. I guess I should have had her committed. Then she'd actually have something to be pissed about.


Posted by: ctbard 28-Feb-2008, 12:27 PM
Maybe we could fix my son and your daughter up!! He could give her numerous tattoos, yes, he is a tattoost, and then you also could have many grandchildren you cant see!! Maybe they would get so disgusted with each other that they'd straighten out.
Our daughter is married, owns a home on South lake tahoe, has a fantastic job, also teaches in the evenings, snow boards, mountain bikes, etc, etc, and was treated the same as our sone, so, who knows?

Posted by: pretentiouswombat 28-Feb-2008, 12:30 PM
What an idea! She has one tattoo, so far. Maybe he could give her a discount for any more she wants.

Talk about kids who need Tough Love!

Posted by: ctbard 28-Feb-2008, 03:01 PM
You know I always wonder what the heck I did wrong with him, I love him no less then my daughter, but he really a butt pain.

Posted by: jime307 28-Feb-2008, 05:16 PM
My brother is the Problem in our family, I mean, we love him so much, he has always had some problems with his anger, We tried everything we possibly could in this town, and we don't even know where the Anger sprouts from but it's there. My mom and my Dad have been divorced almost since he was born, but we don't think thats the issue. We sent him off to my Dad's last year to see if he could help him and there was this fellow named Tim who really helped him out, so we thought for one year would make him great, so for his third grade year we let him stay there and get the help and he got better but wasn't perfect, and halfway through the year my Mom decided I should go down there and stay with my Dad to get help too (for what, I haven't the slightest clue) adn so for half a year both my brother and I were in Estes Park, CO. (Note: I HATE Living with my dad, but then I was used to it, he is WAY unhealthy and he doesnt take care of himself adn its sickening adn as I forced to I had to be stuck there doing really nothing for a half a year, no-one at school like me, period because I wasn't a big athlete So I was short-stocked on friends) My mom was going to make us go back for one year after the summer, but it turns out my dad had been lieing to us for the whole summer and he had moved to a different house, lost his job and he still wanted us to go back, my Mom wouldn't stand for that so we went to school here (I was entering sixth grade) and Thank god for that I couldn't have survived down there after the Summer, during which I lost an incredulous amount of weight from my dads, and made quite a few new friends. We tried to let my Brother stay here but he was still too violent, and always refused to do his work and more problems, at first we thought he would make it. By this time My dad had started his own Buisness adn was back on his feet (we think) and so again we let my beloved brother leave where again he became unhealthy yet better mentally. This year, we thought we'd have him back for sure, but it didn't work, he was now very defiant of his teachers and elders, was a little spoiled (ish) brat and still was a little angry. The summer that we had together was one of my best (not because of him though) My mom, being the protective woman she is, made us go to camp and we had to Ride our bikes there, it was nothing for me but fighting with my brother to even get him on his bike is literrally like trying to throw a car 14 miles. He wouldn't DO anything and it made us sad. Now he's back in Estes, and it turns out my dad had Lied to us more, Benji (my brother) hadn't been seeing Tim for the past two years!! Now that infuriated us, because we gave him up so that he would see Tim and get better but it wasn't happening. I can only imagine what poor benji is thinking during all this because its just scary and messy. I feel so sorry for him because he must feel torn, between us here in Jackson and the Few friends he has in Estes, He made a friend, and I swear, they could be complete twins (apart from looks) and so I don't know what he could be going through, I mean I went through the horror of being down there. But not to this extent. He came to visit at Christams, adn we learned, YESTERDAY, that my Dad had once again lied to us and now he had just been going downhill very much since Christmas and that he longed so badly to be back with us, they said that everthing he says Relates to going back to Jackson. I went there for Spring Break last year and I couldn't stand how they lived, I mean, after living there for half a year I had decided to make a change and so I was used to almost always being outside and being fit and eating healthy and when I went back there it was worse than I ever could have thought it, it was just pathetic, my Uncle had moved in. My dad and he drank probably six cans of diet coke a piece each day, ate fast food WAY too much, and NEVER recycled, both of them are diabetics. My brother had gained about 30+ pounds, I was a Major green freak because my Teacher had changed me into being a peaceful hippielike person (like him wink.gif ) and so I spazzed when I saw the garbage can overflowing with cans and stuff, I talked them into recycling (they say they do it, but lying is a tradition to them) I mean I was just there for a while and I felt like I was in hell and that the visit lasted forever. I feel SO bad for poor benji who has to Always live like that. Man, I wish we could have him back......

It's sad to hear these stories, and even sadder to know they're true. I feel for everyone who's ever had family problems, because no-one's life is perfect

Posted by: ctbard 29-Feb-2008, 06:20 PM
I know it's quite sad, everytime the phone rings at night I think it about my son, accident, jail, etc., most of the times it is.
My daughter lives all the way on the opposite coast and I see her more than my sone who lives 1/2 hour away.):

Posted by: Rindy 01-Mar-2008, 10:43 AM
Hi,
I would like to say I don’t think parents should blame themselves for what their grown adult “child” chooses to do in life. You brought them up gave them what you could, now they go on their own in life.
I do think parents need to be there for advise if asked, and listen.

We all have our faults and hopefully we learn from them. Some do some don’t. The love and pain will never go away no matter how old they become-and its hard to give tough love. Follow your heart.

Life doesn’t last forever and that telephone call could happen at any minute. With all of my family members I let them know I love them and things are ok the last time I see them or talk to them as I may not get another chance.

jim307, wow it sounds like you did all that you could and it’s not your fault. You have been through a great deal trying to make things right for your brother. Benji will be ok no matter what. Remember you are not in charge.
This is when my “Gods” box would come in to play. Any box with a lid will do, mine is wood and has a celtic cross on it and I open the empty box put my thought into it close it and know that my higher power or what ever you believe in if you do will handle your problem.
This has got me through so many situations and it really eases my thoughts.

I think sometimes we have situations with in a family that we can’t control and it makes us feel so bad, but the person that has the problem probably doesn’t feel as bad as we do.

So we need to let go and know it will be ok.

This is just my thoughts on the amazing stories you folks are telling as you said jime307 “no ones life is perfect,” as there is no perfect.



Posted by: pretentiouswombat 04-Mar-2008, 12:13 PM
I agree, rindy, and tough love is often the way to go. Unfortunately, when one parent does the tough love and the other wimps out, it just creates more problems.


Posted by: Rindy 04-Mar-2008, 12:33 PM
Yes, pretentiouswombat that is so true. Do any of you that have been to counseling, find that counseling helps or does it make you focus about the problems more?

Slainte

Posted by: pretentiouswombat 04-Mar-2008, 01:52 PM
I was going for a while and my daughter finally relented to go but I don't think it helped her much and then she wasn't under our insurance any more and it got too costly. Especially with her not working to help foot the bill.

Posted by: Rindy 04-Mar-2008, 01:59 PM
That would be costly. That would really make you concentrate on the problem..lol.

Slainte

Posted by: pretentiouswombat 04-Mar-2008, 02:03 PM
Yep, unless someone else was paying for it (like my daughter's situation) and then, pretty much, who cares?


Posted by: Rindy 06-Mar-2008, 12:26 PM
Drugs and Alcohol cause so many family problems. People that do these have no idea how it affects everyone including society. I think its really a good thing to hear all of your stories that way we know were not alone. I don't know of a family that hasn't had problems in some way but most of them are due to drugs and alcohol. Just my 2 cents worth today.

Slainte

Posted by: pretentiouswombat 06-Mar-2008, 01:14 PM
I know my ex's family has alcohol problems and I was always after him that he didn't NEED that beer every day when he came home from work. So, I was a nag about it but I didn't want to see him fall into the same pattern. I know he drinks - don't know how much - but I'm not there to be the nag anymore.

Now my SO has alcoholism in his family (I know how to find them, don't I?) and he doesn't drink a drop. Thank you, lord. In fact, I almost never drink because of that. We've been together nearly 5 years and I probably have less drinks per year than you can count on one hand. (Exception is the occasional Guinness, of course)


Posted by: ctbard 07-Mar-2008, 02:33 PM
My daughter in California just called and yelled at me because I didnt call and remind her that it was her fathers birthday, does anyone remind me of things??? I think not.

Posted by: Rindy 08-Mar-2008, 03:58 PM
QUOTE (ctbard @ 07-Mar-2008, 02:33 PM)
My daughter in California just called and yelled at me because I didnt call and remind her that it was her fathers birthday, does anyone remind me of things??? I think not.

LOL funny how things work isn't it???? Without Moms the world would fall apart.

Did you folks know its International Womens Day! So...

Slainte to all women!

Posted by: jime307 08-Mar-2008, 08:17 PM
happy womens day! =)

Posted by: ctbard 08-Mar-2008, 10:05 PM
Thank you Jime307!!

Posted by: Rindy 09-Mar-2008, 03:59 PM
That's very sweet. Thank you jime.

Slainte

Posted by: pretentiouswombat 12-Mar-2008, 10:30 AM
The latest in the saga of the second daughter -

DD#1 was to go to a concert last week to see Flogging Molly. She had to drive down here from her place (Gainesville - about an hour away), drop off her little sister at her dad's house (little one just had her birthday and thought it was totally cool to go spend the night with her big sister), drive to Decatur (another 20 - 30 minutes) to pick up DD#2. They were then to drive to the MARTA station (train) and take it into town to the concert where they were meeting other friends of DD#1 who were coming down from Gainesville. Whew!

Okay, I had expressed my concerns about them taking the train after the concert as I knew it would really be late but DD#1 thought it would be okay. However, after some mulling over the situation, she decided it would be better to drive back to our side of town and leave her car at a 24-hour service station and ride with the Gainesville gang, after picking up her sister. Okay. Well... somewhere along the line, problem child decided to totally change the plans and it threw a major monkey wrench in DD#1's schedule. #2 got pissed, said she didn't want to go anymore, and they had a big fight.

Meanwhile, DD#1 calls me to see if I will drive her to the drop-off point to meet her friends. Of course, I'll take her wherever because I happened to have nowhere to be anyway. Then, she decided that would further complicate things because she'd have to have her people come all the way to my house to get her car after the concert. So, she ended up driving to the meeting place, waiting for about an hour (while I listened to her raging on about her sister - my cellphone was literally burning up by the time we got finished) and her people finally got her and they went on their merry way. I haven't heard the rest of the evening's events yet but I hope it got better.

The thing is, if her sister had just told her about the change in plans at a reasonable time, DD#1 could have just stayed in Gainesville, come down with her friends, I could have met them somewhere and picked up my youngest, and things would have been so much easier. Instead, chaos reigned and complicated everything. DD#1 is an organizer - that's why you can totally rely on her and she was so good at her job in the theatre. That's why she's a supervisor at work now. You can pretty much count on her to be able to get things put together -- and the other daughter is pretty much the one you can count on to toss the plans out the window. It's unfortunately so predictable. sigh.

Sorry to ramble - if you think that was hard to follow, you should have been here whilst it was all happening!

Posted by: ctbard 12-Mar-2008, 01:22 PM
Finally heard from my son today after about 3 weeks, of course it's getting close to his birthday, so he usually shows up for any present giving holidays.
Didnt even call his father last week for his birthday.
Of course he informed me that he and his girlfriend had been evicted from their friends apartment yesterday, so either can I, give him money, take them in, or take in their 2 cats.
It never ends.

Posted by: pretentiouswombat 11-May-2008, 09:23 PM
Interestingly, my wayward daughter turned up today with a Mothers' Day present and a card for my SO whose uncle died yesterday. I actually had Mothers' Day with all of my kids (with the exception of the eldest who was working). Last night, when I was at dinner with my sweetie, trying to keep him company since he was upset about his uncle, my dad called me and told me that my great-aunt died yesterday. What a weekend!

But I enjoyed my day today - first my eldest daughter took me out to lunch and then we explored this great yarn shop (in Virginia-Highlands, for those Georgia gals who might want to know) and then went to Jo-Ann's to get some cross stitch supplies for her. She got this gorgeous yarn at the shop and I have to help her get her knitting skills back so she can make a shawl for herself.

I wanted some coffee, so we were going to stop by Borders (just down the street from Jo-Ann's in Snellville) and my dd#2 was there with my son as they had been out putting in job applications around the area. DD#1 said that she knew her sister had a gift for me and a card for my SO but didn't know if I wanted to see her or not. I have not been mad at her, just hurt and staying away so I was glad that she at least had got me something and I did want to see her. We hugged each other and enjoyed being together. Then I insisted she come over to my house for my "surprise" party and cupcakes that my youngest girls had "secretly" prepared for me while I was out for the day. The kids all had a great time at my house and I got new pictures of all 5 of them together which I promptly put up on facebook for all to see.

So, although the weekend started out badly, it has ended up quite wonderfully.

Posted by: lschillinger 13-Jan-2009, 09:25 PM
I have a serious dysfunctional family (hehehe don't we all!) and was wonder if anyone else has been in this situation or can offer any insight or advice.

My sister has been dating the same guy since she was 14 (she's 22 now). He has always had a serious drinking and anger problem. He was arrested several times before he turned 18 and several after (I believe he is at 3 felonious assaults). He has been drinking and getting violent with my sister for years. To make matters even better, my mom passed away three years ago. I moved and both my brother and sister moved in with me. At the time my brother was still in highschool. To make matters even worse in some regards, this boys mother passed away five months after ours, which made the bond with he and my sister even stronger. We welcomed him into our home as well. While he was behaved for a few months he soon began drinking again and got violent with my sister so we had to ask him to leave. Everytime one of these incidences happen my sister says she thought she was going to die and swears never to go back. Of course she does everytime. Often hiding it from the rest of us for months as she knows we disprove. We have welcomed him "back" into the family several times trying to give him a chance, because, of course, everytime he has "changed". While this has been an issue, but we have bent over backwards to help my sister, to convince her to go to counseling or file charges, we had finally got to point of her having to help herself. The bad part is...almost two years ago I had to transfer two hours away for my job. I thought it would be a good thing, making them get out on their own and live life....they were very dependent didn't want to work etc. Well my sister recently had a baby with this guy, and nothing has changed. He is still having these outbursts she claims to have kicked him out, then I find out he's right back there. I love my sister, but I love my niece as well, she is three months old and does not need to be in a situation like this. I've tried to get my sister to move down here and have even offered to take the baby for her. She refuses. The only help she is taking is financial. She is the one supporting all three of them. The father does not work, has never worked as long as I've known him, but my sister refuses to file for any help because she does not want him to get in trouble for not paying child support, and refused to leave his name off the birth certificate. She never wanted kids and isn't really taking to this one that well. She is a good mother as far as feeding changing the baby etc, she just doesn't seem to have had any moments of "giddy mother" and doesn't seem to want to hold her just to cuddle/love her, however, she does love the baby as much as my sister can anyway. I am at the point now where I don't feel like helping her at all unless she comes down here. However, I feel completely horrible for thinking like that. I have kind of taken over the "mother" role for my siblings as we have no close immediate family left. I'm not very good at this and am at a loss!

Sorry for the long winded post... Hopefully someone has some thoughts/advice/insight....

Posted by: stoirmeil 13-Jan-2009, 11:12 PM
QUOTE (lschillinger @ 13-Jan-2009, 10:25 PM)
I have a serious dysfunctional family (hehehe don't we all!) and was wonder if anyone else has been in this situation or can offer any insight or advice.

My sister has been dating the same guy since she was 14 (she's 22 now).  He has always had a serious drinking and anger problem.  He was arrested several times before he turned 18 and several after (I believe he is at 3 felonious assaults).  He has been drinking and getting violent with my sister for years.  To make matters even better, my mom passed away three years ago.  I moved and both my brother and sister moved in with me.  At the time my brother was still in highschool.  To make matters even worse in some regards, this boys mother passed away five months after ours, which made the bond with he and my sister even stronger.  We welcomed him into our home as well.  While he was behaved for a few months he soon began drinking again and got violent with my sister so we had to ask him to leave.  Everytime one of these incidences happen my sister says she thought she was going to die and swears never to go back.  Of course she does everytime.  Often hiding it from the rest of us for months as she knows we disprove.  We have welcomed him "back" into the family several times trying to give him a chance, because, of course, everytime he has "changed".  While this has been an issue, but we have bent over backwards to help my sister, to convince her to go to counseling or file charges, we had finally got to point of her having to help herself.  The bad part is...almost two years ago I had to transfer two hours away for my job.  I thought it would be a good thing, making them get out on their own and live life....they were very dependent didn't want to work etc. Well my sister recently had a baby with this guy, and nothing has changed.  He is still having these outbursts she claims to have kicked him out, then I find out he's right back there.  I love my sister, but I love my niece as well, she is three months old and does not need to be in a situation like this.  I've tried to get my sister to move down here and have even offered to take the baby for her.  She refuses.  The only help she is taking is financial.  She is the one supporting all three of them.  The father does not work, has never worked as long as I've known him, but my sister refuses to file for any help because she does not want him to get in trouble for not paying child support, and refused to leave his name off the birth certificate.  She never wanted kids and isn't really taking to this one that well.  She is a good mother as far as feeding changing the baby etc, she just doesn't seem to have had any moments of "giddy mother" and doesn't seem to want to hold her just to cuddle/love her, however, she does love the baby as much as my sister can anyway.  I am at the point now where I don't feel like helping her at all unless she comes down here.  However, I feel completely horrible for thinking like that.  I have kind of taken over the "mother" role for my siblings as we have no close immediate family left.  I'm not very good at this and am at a loss! 

Sorry for the long winded post... Hopefully someone has some thoughts/advice/insight....

OK -- you won't like all of this, darlin', but bear with me.

You have become a parentalized sibling, as well as an enabler for your sister and her deadbeat lover, and it will wear you down and out without making any real difference in their overall condition. Like pouring your precious self out onto dry sand, a cup of clear water wasted in a desert. You need to educate yourself thoroughly about what this addiction problem in your family means for you, even though you seem to have escaped addiction itself, and make sure you have support and mental health services (even community wellness services for little or nothing, depending on your finances) for YOURSELF, as long as you are involved with your dependent family members. If you can get them to commit themselves to getting proper professional help and staying with it (again, there are services for people who don't have much money, but you need to investigate what those are for your community) then fine, be there for them when they are truly "there" for themselves. If not -- do NOT be there for them, especially when it comes to supporting them financially or being torn apart by the recurrent chapters of their story.

Tell you the truth, my mind is on that infant, because, by your description of the mother-child interaction, she is a prime candidate for an attachment disorder now, and later mental health issues that will go on and on through life. You have instinctively put your finger on the problem: it does take more than a clean bum and a full stomach for a new child's brain and personality, language and interpersonal life to develop, and it sounds like she may be deprived in some ways that can't easily be compensated for later. But even that you can't tackle -- even if your sister let you try to "adopt" her (and I am sure you could do a nice job with that baby's hungry little heart) you will dig yourself in deeper with the addiction issues of the child's parents, who would be very likely to use her to keep you as a close touch for money or whatever else you can provide. It happens all the time. If it should ever look like the child is being neglected or abused, you have the same responsibility as any citizen to report it. That sounds hard-nosed, but it is the truth.

If you find some kind of counseling for yourself, and I really hope you do, they will help you figure out ways to manage the relationship with your sibs so that it has clear boundaries and you don't become another casualty. I wish you the very best luck with it -- it is hard and painful, but the best way through the pain and out the other side is investigating your own support possibilities and beginning to take advantage of them.

Here is a good link to get started just thinking about it all -- also check out the articles under "Family systems theory" at the top of the page. Try not to get too frustrated -- the only behavior you can really change or control is your own, but sometimes, if you prepare yourself as a knowledgeable resource with your own self-preservation in mind, you can do something effective.

My thoughts go with you -- I wish you much, much strength and patience. Keep us posted, we're here to listen if you need it. But also go and find yourself some hands-on help, soon!

http://www.addictioninfo.org/articles/26/1/Family-Therapy--addiction-problems/Page1.html

Posted by: lschillinger 14-Jan-2009, 12:27 AM
Thank you for your reply Stoirmeil. This kind of addiction is something I'm familar with. I've been going to Al-Anon for quite a few years now. We grew up in a household with an alcoholic parent. Who actually did the same sorts of things my sister is going through. I used to bring "repeating history" up to her until I was blue in the face and she insisted that this situation was not the same. She finally said to me the other day she didn't want to raise her daughter to go through the same things she went through. So somewhere inside she is getting it.

My primary concern is for my niece as well. Thankfully she is an excellent baby. My sister at least lucked out there. I will be the first person to call someone if I even suspect something is going wrong. I've thought a lot about that and worried a lot about it. Unfortunately when there is proof or suspcision I fear it will be to late. Shaken baby comes to mind a lot. Thankfully the baby is getting SOME interaction with the babysitter. She takes very good care of her and is as smitten as I am.

I have tried to get my sister in counseling several times. I myself have been seeing someone since my mother died. My company has an excellent employee assistance program and she could go for free, but refuses. I know I am enabling them, and this situation is definitely wearing me out. I'm just at a loss. She knows I'm here for her emotionally, but she only takes my calls or calls when something is wrong or she needs money etc. She hasn't had to buy a single thing for that baby so far. Diapers, formula, everything has been provided for her. She doesn't tell anyone thank you or seem to care that she has been this lucky.

I suppose its just hard to live with myself whatever decision I make, and the answers I'm getting from the professionals have been very generic. For example do what you think you have to do and what will make you feel ok with yourself. Well nothing is LOL. The answer I would like to give is, if she doesn't leave him and come down here I can't help her anymore, but I don't want her to cut me out so I am totally in the dark about my niece.

Thank you for the link. You are right and I am going to look in to perhaps going to see a different counselor. Maybe one who specializes in dealing with addiction and maybe try to chat with someone who deals with battered women, because I just dont get that at all no matter how much I read about it. Thank you for your ear and help smile.gif

Posted by: stoirmeil 14-Jan-2009, 12:43 AM
QUOTE (lschillinger @ 14-Jan-2009, 01:27 AM)
I suppose its just hard to live with myself whatever decision I make, and the answers I'm getting from the professionals have been very generic.  For example do what you think you have to do and what will make you feel ok with yourself.  Well nothing is LOL.

Yeah . . . that's not awfully helpful. Even a little contradictory. What's missing from that equation is the fact that what's good FOR yourself may not feel OK WITH yourself, for a while anyway, while you regroup. It will feel uncomfortable to the extent that you care -- seems like a no-brainer, doesn't it? and obviously you care a lot.

I didn't mean to say a lot of things you already know. It seems like you enjoy a wide variety of topics, so maybe you will enjoy reading in the area of family systems in general. In my studies in psychology, it was never required like development, or cognition, or pathology; once I did look into it, in the context of substance dependency issues, I thought it should be. As you say, no family is perfectly functional, and the dynamics are illuminating no matter what the problems are.

It's good to have you on CelticRadio. I've been enjoying your posts. Big welcome!
What does your motto "tada gan iarracht" mean?

Posted by: delainesunshine1978 25-Jan-2009, 12:49 AM
I am not too sure if what I am writing here will fit but lets see!

Our family is full of drinking and drugs. My dads side, they drink themselves to death, there is a history of wife beating and my dad so far does both.

My moms side of the family is full of mental problems like depression and just bad things.

I never talk to my brother, he drinks like a fish and does drugs which makes his personality awful! He truly is a gross person and he says filthy things so i cant talk to him. I dont miss him because he is truly a bad person. But with my dad, I worry because he and I rarly talk even though I miss him. We just do not know hwo to talk to one another. I talk and he judges. I think he is close to dying because his drinking problem is so bad. I live 3000 miles away from my mom and dad, I saw a picture of my dad on my family members myspace page and I was shocked!!! At first I didnt even realize it was him. He was tiny, guantly, and just pale and well i dont know. He is showing signs of liver diease.

Family is a tricky thing for me, I have 2 family members that I love to talk to. The rest scare me and I stay distant. The more I talk to my mother the more likely I am to mess up my family life inside my home.

Posted by: Rindy 25-Jan-2009, 11:03 AM
I am so sorry to hear your going through all of this delainesunshine1978. This is so sad about your Dad. It sounds like your dealing with it all pretty well. It's a lot to deal with.

I've lost family members from Alcoholism. It's tough. Have you thought about going to any of the AA or NA programs? They help you to deal with it and understand it and learn your not alone that lots of people learn how to cope with it all in these programs.

That's too bad you can't speak with your mom though. Just remember none of it is your fault people choose to do drugs and alcohol themselves and they are the only ones that can help themselves. Unfortunately the rest of us suffer from their actions. Your in my thoughts and prayers. Keep us posted on how your doing ok..

Slainte

Posted by: InRi 26-Jan-2009, 03:31 PM
Dear delainesunshine1978

First I have to congratulate you on your bravery to disclose all these things in your family. You've got my absolute respect.

A lot of things you wrote are well known to me and I can tell you something about it (and maybe help a little bit too). But first I want to tell you something about me.
I am a clean alcoholic for r.a. 12 years. Afore I "drunk like a fish" too. I began to drink as I was a 14 years "old" feller.
A lot of years I drunk more or less but every time I had a bit alcohol in my blood...
On the end of my "active" drinking time I couldn't control it and it was unable for me to stop. I didn't want to see myself in a mirror, I couldn't think about other things than alcohol - my only problem in this time was: how to get the next ration...
One day I was in such a bad shape, that I began to look for a help. I passed an inpatient alcohol therapy (a half year) and after this I never started to drink again.
During this therapy I had a lot of abilities to learn a lot about me, about the alcoholism, about the development of this suffer, the effects to the social environment and much more. Later I began to study a new profession - and addictions was one of the most important things (for me) there.
I worked some years with troubled teens and (what a surprise!) almost everytime I found a kind of addiction...
I said, that I can tell you something about it, but I want to ask you for two things:
Please don't take offense, maybe are some things really hard and maybe you think that you'll never agree with them.
Don't notice this as a kind of "how to do...." The problem is so very complex and all concerned people are so very different - there is no standard way to solve this problem... if it is to solve...

I can read in your post two important things: How Can I help my dad? and How can I help myself (and my own family)?
To the first question is a short but very hard answer: No chance! I hope I can explain this with my own simple words. An alcoholic has (from his point of view) no problem. Therefore he hasn't no reason to change something. So long as he has access to the stuff he (thinks to) need(s) and so long as he has any kind of support (as drinking "friends", someone who wash his clothes, someone who gives him some money, someone who buys (donates) him alcohol - in a nutshell someone who care for him he never has a reason to change his life. He delivered all kind of responsibility for himself to someone other (the supporters)
If some day he loose the last support, then it is able that he begins to change something.
One of my therapists said: "Homeless, workless and up to the ears in the dirt - the perfect premises that an alcoholic can accept a help from outside." No family member can accomplish this - because all these trials are a kind of support again.
He (in this case your dad) has the first step to go. Maybe it is able for him - he have a good chance to survive a bit longer. If it isn't able for him - I'm sorry.
(I got my act together - my father didn't accomplish this - he tried to cure his stroke (created by alcohol) and his cancer of the throat (created by alcohol too) with the same stuff - the result was more unedifying. (he died in the "legendary" age of 62 years)
The second question is more difficult. Rindy has a golden idea. These AA/NA programs can be a really good support for you in such a situation.
But in my opinion two things really important too: To accept, that a help isn't able so long as someone drinks and to accept, that there isn't an own responsibility for the alcoholism of someone other.
This is to be a kind of self-protection - for you and your family.

Alcoholism isn't a weakness of character but a suffer and alcoholics aren't bad people innately - alcohol turn they into such people.

I hope I didn't "build in" too much (langauage) mistakes and the text understandable yet.
Regards from Austria

Ingo

Posted by: delainesunshine1978 26-Jan-2009, 07:12 PM
Rindy, thank you for being so sweet! AndInRi I am going to read your post tonight, at the moment I have a lot of people making noise around me and I have trouble reading. So tonight I will come back and read this! Looks like you put a lot into it, thanks kindly!

And to the others going through so much, I am thinking of you as well!!!!

Posted by: delainesunshine1978 29-Jan-2009, 08:44 PM
QUOTE (InRi @ 26-Jan-2009, 04:31 PM)
Dear delainesunshine1978

First I have to congratulate you on your bravery to disclose all these things in your family. You've got my absolute respect.

A lot of things you wrote are well known to me and I can tell you something about it (and maybe help a little bit too). But first I want to tell you something about me.
I am a clean alcoholic for r.a. 12 years. Afore I "drunk like a fish" too. I began to drink as I was a 14 years "old" feller.
A lot of years I drunk more or less but every time I had a bit alcohol in my blood...
On the end of my "active" drinking time I couldn't control it and it was unable for me to stop. I didn't want to see myself in a mirror, I couldn't think about other things than alcohol - my only problem in this time was: how to get the next ration...
One day I was in such a bad shape, that I began to look for a help. I passed an inpatient alcohol therapy (a half year) and after this I never started to drink again.
During this therapy I had a lot of abilities to learn a lot about me, about the alcoholism, about the development of this suffer, the effects to the social environment and much more. Later I began to study a new profession - and addictions was one of the most important things (for me) there.
I worked some years with troubled teens and (what a surprise!) almost everytime I found a kind of addiction...
I said, that I can tell you something about it, but I want to ask you for two things:
Please don't take offense, maybe are some things really hard and maybe you think that you'll never agree with them.
Don't notice this as a kind of "how to do...." The problem is so very complex and all concerned people are so very different - there is no standard way to solve this problem... if it is to solve...

I can read in your post two important things: How Can I help my dad? and How can I help myself (and my own family)?
To the first question is a short but very hard answer: No chance! I hope I can explain this with my own simple words. An alcoholic has (from his point of view) no problem. Therefore he hasn't no reason to change something. So long as he has access to the stuff he (thinks to) need(s) and so long as he has any kind of support (as drinking "friends", someone who wash his clothes, someone who gives him some money, someone who buys (donates) him alcohol - in a nutshell someone who care for him he never has a reason to change his life. He delivered all kind of responsibility for himself to someone other (the supporters)
If some day he loose the last support, then it is able that he begins to change something.
One of my therapists said: "Homeless, workless and up to the ears in the dirt - the perfect premises that an alcoholic can accept a help from outside." No family member can accomplish this - because all these trials are a kind of support again.
He (in this case your dad) has the first step to go. Maybe it is able for him - he have a good chance to survive a bit longer. If it isn't able for him - I'm sorry.
(I got my act together - my father didn't accomplish this - he tried to cure his stroke (created by alcohol) and his cancer of the throat (created by alcohol too) with the same stuff - the result was more unedifying. (he died in the "legendary" age of 62 years)
The second question is more difficult. Rindy has a golden idea. These AA/NA programs can be a really good support for you in such a situation.
But in my opinion two things really important too: To accept, that a help isn't able so long as someone drinks and to accept, that there isn't an own responsibility for the alcoholism of someone other.
This is to be a kind of self-protection - for you and your family.

Alcoholism isn't a weakness of character but a suffer and alcoholics aren't bad people innately - alcohol turn they into such people.

I hope I didn't "build in" too much (langauage) mistakes and the text understandable yet.
Regards from Austria

Ingo

Well I think what you wrote is true. And based off my moms decsion to let him back in even though she said enough months ago, he will keep falling! She is letting him get away with it by letting him drink around her and live with her again.

I think I will do my best to remember the person I think he used to be, hope he will stop, and get ready for that phone call because it was too late.....

Posted by: InRi 30-Jan-2009, 02:14 PM
QUOTE (delainesunshine1978 @ 30-Jan-2009, 03:44 AM)
And based off my moms decsion to let him back in even though she said enough months ago, he will keep falling! She is letting him get away with it by letting him drink around her and live with her again.

Dear delainesunshine1978
You describes a situation, which apparent isn't understandable at the first moment. But (and it seems to be paradox) it is a current behavior in families they are involved in a addiction problem. There is a name for this kind of behavior - codependence. The name became already in the 70's and describe the behavior of family members in families with a addiction problem.
I found a good item at a Austrian website, which I want to translate for you. Maybe it will help a littlebit to understand your mother - and maybe it shows you, how deep every familiy member is involved in such a addiction problem.

Here is the (maybe pretty clumsy) translation:
The term Codependence became in the 1970's and dealt with the relations between a alcoholic and those people, they're to them.
Meanwhile this term is applied in an advanced meaning: to describe a close personal - but in its character destructive - relation to a addict (there can be varied kinds of addiction - alcohol, drugs, pharmaceuticals, sex, affairs, gambling, Internet, food, work and so forth)
Therefore is Codependence a disorganization of relations, in which one person goes dependent from an addict in self-harming kind.
A codependent defines themself (and its own merit) on the base of other people and look about his acts to the other only so that he gives up the might to decide about his own life in its own responsibility.
He looks about in his doing outside very strong, shepherds the other, looks out, that the other ever have well, feels responsible for the welfare and luck of the other - and forgets there his own needs. Everytime the other is more important as themself - it's better to abstain from the fulfilling of the own needs, as not to fulfill the needs of the other.
As a consequence comes a codependent into a backer-/victimhood, which he can act until the totally self-denial and self-abandonment.
To start a relation to an addict, who needs support and help in extensive quantity - maybe to keep saved - is a further consequence of this behavior pattern.
Where are the reasons for such a self harming behavior?
Codependents very often raised in an enviroment, where it was essential for survival to disable the own feelings. It was not allowed to express the own feelings - they learned to feel, what they have to feel.
This oppression for many of years is the reason, that they lost some time the access to their feelings. They are unsure, if that what they feel is really "real" and correspondes with the reality. Because of this lacking belief in the own emotions they look one the one hand orientation and authentication by the other. On the other hand they have a very sensitive sensorium for the needs of the other - most as a consequence from live together with addict or diseased family members.
All codependents hold a lacking self-confidence. His right to exist he derives to be perfect - in fulfilling the needs of the other. He learned that he'll get love and acceptance only, if he postpones the own needs and instead fulfill the needs and the expectances of the other.
Codependents have to learn to get an access to their emoctions again, to see the own needs as important and to detect the own merit.

If there is somebody who can translate this better, here is the link: http://www.enjoyliving.at/geistseele-magazin/sucht_abhaengigkeit/co-abhaengigkeit.html

I have to say that I found in this item a lot again I saw in my family (my mother), in the "new" family of my father but also in my own family as I drunk.
I don't want to scare you (or somebody here) but I think it is important for the own well-being sometime to think about such things too. Especially if in the own family is an addiction problem.

Regards from Austria

Ingo

Posted by: delainesunshine1978 30-Jan-2009, 07:31 PM
Again, thank you for your posts! I am yet surrounded by the people I live with smile.gif They are loud and always saying hey Delaine Look at this!!!

So once it is late and they are either asleep, or playing a game in the other room I will come back and focus.

I have a hard time taking in info so it takes all my focus, I am sure you know what I mean! So I will comment on it as soon as possible!!!

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