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> Judas Iscariot, What do you think of him?
andylucy 
Posted: 02-Feb-2004, 04:06 AM
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QUOTE (Kiwi Gael @ Feb 1 2004, 06:26 PM)
Christ set the example of baptism as complete submersion under water, not by 'sprinkling' upon the head, which is a man-made invention and is not Scriptural.

Baptism was a sacrament established by Christ, for the remission of original sin. It is not merely symbolic, it does impart grace. It allows all who carry the stain of Adam to be freed from that yoke. To me, it is only right to baptise an infant. It frees him from original sin, leaving the child to grow and develop his conscience without being burdened. It is up to the parents to assist the child in its faith formation, whatever course that may take. That is up to the parents' consciences.

As far as immersion vs. "sprinkling," the Church teaches that immersion was, in general, the rule until around the 12th century. Aspersion, what is often referred to as "sprinkling," is also of antiquity, although not as popular as immersion earlier. Aspersion gained prominence in the late 15th century.

As far as what constitutes a true baptism, all that is required canonically is that water flow over the forehead of the subject, followed by the words, "I baptise you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen." How the water flows over the forehead is up to the presider, the words are not optional.

Not even the Bible holds that it is the "sole source" of Christian guidance. Sola Scriptura is a fairly recent "man-made" invention, especially seeing that most people couldn't read at all until just the last couple of centuries. Sort of makes it hard to see how the Bible is the only source for guidance. wink.gif

Christ instituted something even more spectacular than Baptism. He founded a Church to aid and guide us, led by Peter and the Apostles, that has lasted down to this day by the miracle of apsotolic succession.

Now, can you tell who the token outspoken papist is around here? biggrin.gif

Just my tuppence.

Andy


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Kiwi Gael 
Posted: 02-Feb-2004, 05:09 PM
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That's cool; 'different strokes for different folks'. That's the beauty about the freedom of religion, and the Eternal will allow everybody to exercise their own free will.

However, I choose to follow the example of Christ, and Christ alone. rockon.gif


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andylucy 
Posted: 03-Feb-2004, 12:52 AM
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QUOTE (Kiwi Gael @ Feb 2 2004, 05:09 PM)
However, I choose to follow the example of Christ, and Christ alone. 


Oh! So you are Roman Catholic!!! clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif

lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif

Just Kidding! Just Kidding!

Andy
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 03-Feb-2004, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE (Elspeth @ Jan 12 2004, 09:28 AM)
So, I'm wondering if anyone has thoughts, opinions, insight or research they would like to share on the Bible's most recognizable villain - after Satan, of course.

I've studied the new testament a lot in the past couple of years, and Judas Iscariot is one of the most pivotal people in the story of the life death & resurrection of Christ. To me, he is the most tragic figure of all the 12 disciples because he followed Christ and heard his teachings first hand, yet still clung to his own political agenda in wanting Christ to come out as the military leader of the Jewish nation... when Christ did not step forward to lead a military rebellion, I think Judas got discouraged and disillusioned. That's why he betrayed him, out of disappointment and anger. Greed, too...



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MacErca 
Posted: 03-Feb-2004, 03:32 PM
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Maybe in his own little mind he was trying to force Jesus's hand into ushering in that kingdom.


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 03-Feb-2004, 05:55 PM
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I believe in Satan as a nemesis towards the good... but i have to say the worst thing of all ever is the human nature for me. The ability to kill thousands with just one button or the ability to send millions into their death with one signature.
I don't think satan has anything to do with that, it's the human nature alone. And if there is one thing I give to Religion (depends on which though wink.gif ) it is that it offers a way into higher morals. Which still doesn't keep some from sticking a cat into a microwave or whip a horse until it bleeds and the skin is shredding off it or physically abusing other persons.


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MacErca 
Posted: 03-Feb-2004, 06:44 PM
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Very true. A person has to make choices everyday.
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andylucy 
Posted: 03-Feb-2004, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE
Which still doesn't keep some from sticking a cat into a microwave


Huh? What kind of barbarian puts a cat in the microwave? Don't they know it just makes them stringy and inedible?

**Shudder**

Andy
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Elspeth 
Posted: 04-Feb-2004, 07:16 AM
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QUOTE (andylucy @ Feb 4 2004, 12:16 AM)

Huh? What kind of barbarian puts a cat in the microwave? Don't they know it just makes them stringy and inedible?

**Shudder**

Andy

lol.gif lol.gif lol.gif


Been away, it's interesting to catch up. Not sure how we got onto baptism, but since we jumped there momentairly, thought I'd throw out as an FYI, I baptised by immersion at age 13 - conscious choice. My children, though, were sprkinkeld in Presbyterian church. Not sure why I'm adding this but it did raise some difficult theological issues.

Back to Judas. Almost done writing. HAVE to finish soon. If you guys like I acn post what I wrote.


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 04-Feb-2004, 05:12 PM
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I'd be interested anyway =)

Well as a barbarian I would eat mine either roasted or raw wink.gif
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andylucy 
Posted: 05-Feb-2004, 05:27 AM
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Eslpeth, please do make it available to us. I would very much like to read it! biggrin.gif


QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ Feb 4 2004, 05:12 PM)
Well as a barbarian I would eat mine either roasted or raw wink.gif


Raw!!! You'll get worms!!!! laugh.gif

Andy
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 05-Feb-2004, 01:14 PM
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I think I ate more raw meat than any other person on this board in my life... Finely minced pork with onions, salt and pepper is a delicacy where I come from and called "Mett"... I still don't have any worms...
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 06-Feb-2004, 10:08 AM
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QUOTE (MacErca @ Feb 3 2004, 04:32 PM)
Maybe in his own little mind he was trying to force Jesus's hand into ushering in that kingdom.

You know what? I think he was trying to force Jesus' hand!!
I've always wondered if Judas thought that being taken prisioner would get Jesus so mad that he'd decide to regroup & start a war designed to get Rome control out of Jerusalem. But Jesus didn't, and within just a day or so he was crucified and there wasn't anything Judas could do to stop it...
Judas had been Jesus' friend for several years by then and perhaps regretted betraying his friend so much that he killed himself. Poor guy, if he'd only stuck around a little while longer he would have heard the good news from Mary Magdalene...

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MacErca 
Posted: 06-Feb-2004, 07:22 PM
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Siusaidh Blues I agree with that statement
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Poor guy, if he'd only stuck around a little while longer he would have heard the good news from Mary Magdalene...



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Elspeth 
Posted: 07-Feb-2004, 11:17 AM
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Which brings up the fascinating question - why didn't he? Peter denied his Lord only hours after swearing he never would. And yet he repented and the church was built upon him. Judas could have had the same forgiveness. Why didn't he believe in that?

Such a fascinating person is Judas. And frightening, for his humanity is the same as is ours.

I have completed my script. And once I make sure I haven't made any glaring theological mistakes, I'll post it somewhere. Maybe as a link. Maybe not. I'll have to see how long it is when I take out the musical selections, etc.
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