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Elspeth 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ Dec 22 2003, 11:53 AM)
Well, if tolerance gets shoved down your throats, that is sad. Because nobody then learns to be tolerant anymore, just see it as a word or a phrase. =/

Tolerance & PC'ness is one of those things you can get wrong easily. And politicians are often overstepping the line.


And politicians are quite adapt at hiding their idiocy behind smooth flowing PC comments. Like being hypnotized by a snake's eyes as it prepares to bite you.

I think we should chuck PC and everyone speak from their hearts. If a politician is an idiot, then we would know it all the sooner. biggrin.gif

But unfortunately PC and the word tolerance have become linked. And it is very unfortunate. And I really resent being told what is ?moral? or how to be ?tolerant? by a bunch of politicians, not one of which I would trust to tell me the truth if it wasn?t in their best interest to do so. *stepping off of soapbox before she trips and shoves foot into mouth once again*

An idiot is an idiot no matter what label they fall under. And another thing - I really hate labels! *oops that tricky soapbox jumped back under my feet*

I try to teach my kids by word and example that the diversity they find in the world is interesting. That way they want to know more about others, aren't threatened by differences and learn how to hold onto their beliefs even when others think differently.


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JaneyMae 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 12:00 PM
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Children shouldn't be threatened by differences but should embrace the difference and uniquiness in everyone.


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Elspeth 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 12:10 PM
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No one should be threatened by differences, but we are. And it is in this fear that the roots of all intolerance lay.

When people get upset by a Wiccan teacher, the question is of course why. What are people afraid of? They are afraid of something, otherwise it wouldn't be a problem.

And if children are taught to be threatened by differences how can they ever learn to embrace the difference and uniqueness in themselves?
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oldraven 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Dec 22 2003, 11:00 AM)
Children shouldn't be threatened by differences but should embrace the difference and uniquiness in everyone.

Which is what tolerance really means. smile.gif

I see your point, Elspeth. There's a few ways you can show tolerance. The way that Janeymae just explained it, and the over the top way. The PC Fanatic. You're talking about the fanatics, and yes, they take it too far. To the point where it starts to loose its meaning.

I'm just talking about the 'good will twards men' (and women) style of PC. Not being alowed to say gay, that's stund. Not being alowed to say ni....... nizzle, that's a good thing. I think we should be PC 'enough' to keep from excluding people or making them feel uncomfortable. We should, however, be allowed to say specific things if the word doesn't carry malice, and that's perfectly clear to everyone.



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JaneyMae 
  Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 12:27 PM
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QUOTE (Elspeth @ Dec 22 2003, 12:10 PM)
When people get upset by a Wiccan teacher, the question is of course why. What are people afraid of? They are afraid of something, otherwise it wouldn't be a problem.


You've hit it! People are afraid of anything that's different. They were never taught to think outside the box or even think for themselves! thumbs_up.gif
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JaneyMae 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 12:29 PM
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StaceyLynne 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 12:40 PM
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My 2 cents.

On a personal level...
I find no offence in a teacher wearing a wiccan symbol, I personally believe in freedom of religion as long as no one is hurt and having studied Wicca, I believe it is harmless. Although a Wiccan holds a different worldview this teacher would not be a threat to students coming from Christian households.

However...
The prevalent views in our Oklahoma USA, Bible- Belt community are not so tolerant, there is a lot of fear and misunderstanding. Although the teacher would certainly have the right to wear religious jewelry I believe it would be difficult for the teacher to be effective in the classroom if he/she is fighting with parents and school board over "rights". I would hope that the teacher who chooses to openly wear pagan jewelry in the classroom, is prepared for the battle that will surely come.

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JaneyMae 
  Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 12:50 PM
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QUOTE (fosterlynne @ Dec 22 2003, 12:40 PM)
Although the teacher would certainly have the right to wear religious jewelry I believe it would be difficult for the teacher to be effective in the classroom if he/she is fighting with parents and school board over "rights". I would hope that the teacher who chooses to openly wear pagan jewelry in the classroom, is prepared for the battle that will surely come.

In the school I used to teach at my cross was considered pagan jewelry. It is all in the eye of the beholder.

Too bad our world is so narrow minded. unsure.gif
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Knightly Knight 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 12:52 PM
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king.gif Now Thats what I like seeing, a discussion!!! thank you all



On intolerance, I understand hate groups, (don't condone their action) but understand them. Does anyone understand why anyone can tell them they cant hate? Isn't it such a waste of time being Intolerant of the Intolerant? biggrin.gif

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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 01:10 PM
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well.. I'm intolerant of the intolerant?
But trying to tell them why not to hate is a waste of time because they'll never change anyway ...

egg nog!


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barddas 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Dec 22 2003, 02:27 PM)
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Dec 22 2003, 12:10 PM)
When people get upset by a Wiccan teacher, the question is of course why. What are people afraid of? They are afraid of something, otherwise it wouldn't be a problem.


You've hit it! People are afraid of anything that's different. They were never taught to think outside the box or even think for themselves! thumbs_up.gif

Exactly! People fear what they do not understand. And if they go through life wearing blinders to the diversity of the world, they will inturn pass that same fear/intolerance to thier childern.

Childern aren't threatend by diversity. Parents are! *MOST* young childern are very honest in thier perception of things. You ask a little kid if you have a big head, they will tell you if you do! Like it or not...... Most don't care if your black, white purple, pagan, jewish ...etc...... You put a group of young childern in a room together, all they want to do is play. Color, race, ethnicity doesn't play into it... Sure they don't know what it is.... but at the basic level of life.... it dosen't matter.... Only as adult do labels come into the picture....

Childern are who adults should look towards in learning tolerance.

This post has been edited by barddas on 22-Dec-2003, 02:02 PM


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barddas 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 02:03 PM
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The soap box is now free to use again
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Celeste of the Stars1 
  Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 02:19 PM
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Well this discussion has taken a few different turns! I LOVE IT! You all make great points and I look forward to reading them everyday.

Ok My turn to rant biggrin.gif

I was raised in what I thought was a tolerant house until I told them I no longer believed it God. Now suddenly I'm the evil one thats going to burn in h..well you get the picture. Now every time I want to talk to my little brother or sister my mom says "Don't you dare say anything to them about Wicca". So needless to say when my sister saw my pentical she asked me why I wear a devil symbol and I can't tell her anything about it or correct her. I asked my mom the same question I ask you all about a Wiccan teaching and she told my she would do anything she could to get the teacher removed. This is not the same woman I grew up with. I asked her what she would do if a Jewish person was teaching she said she wouldn't do anything. Does that make sense? I asked her to explain why and she said Jewdisim (SP?) was like Christianity, they both believe in God, Wiccans don't. So that was her big argument. Nice!

Ok I think I'm done. biggrin.gif
*steps away from the micraphone.


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Celeste of the Stars1 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE (barddas @ Dec 22 2003, 02:59 PM)
QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Dec 22 2003, 02:27 PM)
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Dec 22 2003, 12:10 PM)
When people get upset by a Wiccan teacher, the question is of course why. What are people afraid of? They are afraid of something, otherwise it wouldn't be a problem.


You've hit it! People are afraid of anything that's different. They were never taught to think outside the box or even think for themselves! thumbsup.gif

Exactly! People fear what they do not understand. And if they go through life wearing blinders to the diversity of the world, they will inturn pass that same fear/intolerance to thier childern.

Childern aren't threatend by diversity. Parents are! *MOST* young childern are very honest in thier perception of things. You ask a little kid if you have a big head, they will tell you if you do! Like it or not...... Most don't care if your black, white purple, pagan, jewish ...etc...... You put a group of young childern in a room together, all they want to do is play. Color, race, ethnicity doesn't play into it... Sure they don't know what it is.... but at the basic level of life.... it dosen't matter.... Only as adult do labels come into the picture....

Childern are who adults should look towards in learning tolerance.

On this same note. As my hubby says, "Ignorance is taught not learned". if you but a black child and a white child in a room from birth til they were 18 with no outside influence when they get out will have NO idea what racism is. Nor would they see the other as a different color at all, just a darker or lighter shade of themselves.
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Falachaidh 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 02:28 PM
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People get angry or afraid when they don't comprehend or understand something. It takes a very brave person and one who isn't afraid to swallow their pride sometimes, to learn something new. Especially something so emotional and touchy as religion.

I would not pull my child out of the class because the teacher is a Wiccan. To me, that says she has more of an open mind than half the Catholics I've ever dealt with!

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