I Want To Know More About Wales

[gwenynen]

Helo Elspeth. I've joined here recently and found this thread. If you are still around, could you reply as I'm interested in Abergwyngregyn?

[Siarls]

What makes you interested in Abergwyngregyn? I went to this area of Wales on holiday once. It is beautiful up there! Biwmaris, Caernarfon and Betws y Coed are particularly lovely. I never took notice of Abergwyngregyn but looking at this map, I must have driven through it on my way to Llandudno and Rhyl.

[gwenynen]

Hi, Siarls! Are we the only ones on the Welsh thread lately? Yahoooo! All the Wales-minded people, please come join!

Abergwyngregyn was a court of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd (and to Llywelyn Fawr too, I believe.) The tower and barn from his time still stand there. The related website is:
http://www.castlewales.com/pen.html

As Llywelyn ap Gruffudd is one of my heroes, I have a special interest in Aber. This is one place I'd definitely go if I had an opportunity to go to Wales (and Cilmeri and Llyn Celyn too.)

Little wonder you drove past Aber without noticing it. It's a small place and not too many people are interested in the last Prince of Wales.

[susieq76]

They have an incredibly beautiful castle in Caernarfon. Too bad it is in North Wales, as I am going to South Wales! But I get to see Cardiff probably, and some other great places as well!

Tell us what you know about Llywelyn ap Gruffud, gwenynen. I would love to open a new thread about it, or discuss it here if you like. Maybe I should open a Welsh history thread......*goes off in search of one, just in case it is already there!*

Okay, gwen. This would be a great place to put any info like that....

Welsh myths and legends



This post has been edited by susieq76 on 03-May-2005, 09:16 AM

[Siarls]

I see! I haven't learn or read much about the Princes of Wales. Partly because I support the present Prince of Wales.

Go to Caerffili Castle, near Cardiff. I didn't know why it was so interesting until the other day... It's the 3rd largest castle in the world!

Ystumllwynarth Oystermouth near where I live is a nice castle. A bed & breakfast for medieval royalty, but the main attraction is the views! Especially on a summer's evening

[gwenynen]

Susanna, I'm so glad you are posing all over the Welsh threads again. You must be busy with the preparations for the trip. I'm eager to hear your report later on.

'Myths and Legends' doesn't seem to be the right thread to post about history. I think this very thread is appropritate as its aim is to know more about Wales. So if you agree, I'm ready to share a few things about Llywelyn.

[susieq76]

Oh, post away!

[gwenynen]

Diolch, Susanna!

I'll start with Prince of Wales; Prince Charles has certainly been making unprecedented efforts to understand Wales by learning Welsh. Yet, he is an English prince. A Welsh prince ought to be called Prince of Wales, but there is no Welsh prince because the last Welsh Prince of Wales (Llywelyn ap Gruffudd) was killed by King Edward I in 1282. Llywelyn's only child, Gwenllian was sent to an abbey in England to ensure she'd bear no heir. She died there without knowing her true identity. King Edward invested his infant son the title of Prince of Wales. Ever since then the male heir to the throne of England has been called that.

[Siarls]

I never knew Llewellyn's children survived. I thought they were all murdered too. I need to brush up on my Welsh history. Although, in fairness to me, we are not taught Welsh history at school. England runs the education system, so we learn about English history. Some say it's a conspiracy to prevent the Welsh from becoming too aware of their identity.
At the same time, I think it's unfair that England does not learn about its sister country... my English friends knew so little about Wales before meeting me, which greatly offended me. And a lot of their opinions were outrightly wrong. Like the fact they thought Welsh was a dead language. One of my friends thought it had been dead for 500 years.

Please continue with interesting facts about our Princes.
When and how did Llewellyn unite Wales? I'll look this up myself too.

[gwenynen]

I don't think he was able to unite the whole of Wales, though he came close; there were some princes who wouldn't support him. I'm not an expert in the Welsh history as I've been just reading on my own. But I do love and admire it. After all what country has survived and preserved its distinct culture and language over the centuries against mighty England?

I could well believe the rumor about its intentional omission though. If all the Welsh learned the Welsh history well, it might make nationalists out of them!

There are several websites about Llywelyn ap Gruffudd such as:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/timelines/bri...rin-wales.shtml
http://www.castlewales.com

The best source of information is Gwynfor's "Land of My Fathers." It was written originally in Welsh, "Aros Mae." The only difficulty in reading this book is it's so long. I almost gave up finishing it half way through had I not heard a great review. You'll be a changed man after reading it.

My aviator, by the way is Llywelyn's Coat of Arms.

[gwenynen]

I meant avatar.

[Siarls]

I already knew about the shield. This flag is still used as the Prince of Wales' royal standard for use in Wales.

[gwenynen]

There is a difference between them, though. The Prince of Wales's Standard of Wales has a green shield with a crown in the center on top of Llywelyn's Arms. It's almost symbolic of the history.

It's not so surprising that your English friends don't know much about Wales. If the Welsh themselves are not taught their own history at school, even less so for the English.

The main policy of England, ever since the Act of Union in 1536 has been to "destroy the Welsh language and delete the national tradition." - quote from the Land of My Fathers. They've partially succeeded but not completely; Cymraeg still lives and is thriving.

[Siarls]

The Blue Books said that the Welsh Language is a hindrance to the economic stablility and moral progress of the country.

A customer at my checkout once said that she speaks English as a favour!!

I want to know more about the Princes, though! Is this Llewellyn Fawr we're talking about?
(On a language point, you know that Llewellyn is pronounced Llew - el - yn. Over time, the 2nd LL has become L. People make the mistake of actually saying Llew - ell - yn.

[gwenynen]

Llywelyn Fawr was the grandfather of Llywelyn ap Gruffudd (or Llywelyn Olaf.)

I didn't know Llywelyn was originally spelled Llywellyn. I sometimes see Llewellyn too. In fact, I found one Llewellyn in the phonebook of my town and was so excited. She turned out to be a college student, and I even emailed her. She said she knew nothing about her name or her ancestors. It was my chance to tell her about both Llywelyns!