Who Wrote The Bible?, and other ramblings

Can anyone tell me with 100% confidence who wrote the bible?

I'm not trying to stir up trouble, but as some of you know, I am agnostic, and really have the belief that God may exist, but he also may not. Until I see proof that satisfies me, I basically believe he does not exist.

According to a few people I've asked, nobody really knows who wrote the bible. If this is the case, then my next question would be why do so many people put so much faith in something that nobody knows the origin of? How can you believe god exists only because the bible tells you so. I see many responses of people in this and other forums stating that they believe god's word, and that god doesn't approve of this or that. How do you really know what god does and does not approve of, if the only place it's recorded is in the bible?

I find religion confusing. I don't doubt anyones beliefs, I'm just trying to find out what the basis of your beliefs are. It seems to me that most people believe in god because that is how they were raised. Does that mean it's right? Just because your parents believe in god, does that mean you should too? Are we all just followers, rather than individuals? I don't know the best way to express it without offending, so I'll see what the responses are up to this point.

Sorry if I've offended anyone already. It's not my intention. Just trying to figure things out.

lastly, do you think it's offensive to abbreviate Christmas as X-mas? Doesn't it defeat the purpose? My mom always told me it was anti-christian to do so.

Hello Brian, 'me 'ol mate!

I can answer this question with total confidence...only by quoting God's Word.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

My opinion, "as one having the Spirit of God" is that the Bible as we have it today is a very reliable record of what God wants us to know.

Re. Xmas, I am one who prefers NOT to associate the Precious Name of Christ with the unscriptural celebration of Christ-mass.

but that is my view based on my understanding of the Bible, I don't judge my brethren who disagree with me, I just remove them from my Xmas card list

Thanks Graham for the insight.

In regards to Christmas cards and Christmas...well, I celebrate both. My wife and I send out Christams cards to family and friends. We generally will choose a non-religious theme, such as "Happy Holidays to you and your family". We also recieve many Christmas cards, and would never be offended if they were of a religious theme.

Christams is strange, and I may be called a hipocrite or something else, but I enjoy the spirit of Christams, and the family. I don't celebrate Christmas because of Christ. To me, Christmas is about the season (winter), the lights, the fire in the fireplace, the Christmas tree, the Christmas music and the exchanging of gifts. I enjoy feeling the warmth of Christmas.

I have an open mind, but I just find it difficult to beleive in something that to me, has no proof of existence (proof that would satisfy me, that is)

BTW, I'd be happy to exchange addresses with you for Christmas card mailings.

How close are you to moving here so we can exchange cards?? (not to jet off topic, or anything!)

Not until May, but I'd still be happy to exchange.

You're entitled to your beliefs and opinion. Can I add my own thoughts though? PUHLEASE???? So yeah Christmas isn't in the bible, but it is a Christain holiday. It is celebrating the birth of Christ our Lord. Mass is defined as the celebration of the Eucharist (for Roman Catholics and some Protestants). The mass is celebrating the death and life of Christ, so Christmas is called Christmas cause it is celebrating the birth of Christ. Does that make any sense? so yaeh it's not in the bible but I believe it is a real holiday and a real moment in history so that's why I don't change the name even though there isn't biblical reference to it. That's my two cents. Thanx!

Yes, I am 100% confident that I cannot. I believe that God inspired men and women to write the Bible, but I don't think God created the words where they were discovered laying about in the desert, and later published. There are too many inconsistencies and contradictions to make me think an all-perfect God wrote it all by himself. For example, Jesus' burial changes and grows in each of the 4 Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke & John). There are even 2 different stories about how Judas died -- he either hung himself or tripped and hit his head.

I'm a Christian, but I'm a liberal one. I believe that a lot of religion and its rules are man-made. So I feel free to ask questions like that anyway.

Proof denies faith though. The whole purpose of having faith is that you don't ever *KNOW* with 100% certainty that He exists or not.

For some people, their faith is a comfort to them. For others, it IS the way they were raised. Some people have had their level of proof satisfied. And for others, they're content to follow their faith unquestioningly.

People who say that God approves or does not approve of something, especially those who say God has "told them" (i.e. Pat Robertson and Oral Roberts), I tend not to believe. There are so many arguments about the interpretation of the Bible itself, and what God meant or didn't mean, that someone who throws in visions of 900 feet tall Jesuses should just be ignored.

Your question reminds me of an argument I had with a guy when we were in grad school. I was questioning the validity and infallibility of the Bible, and he was arguing in support of it. His argument was "The Bible is infallible because the Bible SAYS it's infallible."

I'm not offended, but I understand why people would be offended. Christ-mas is named for Jesus. To call it X-mas could be offendsive since it abbreviates -- and thus trivializes -- the cross. Some Politically Correct people will call it X-mas in an attempt to placate those people who are not Christians, but I think they end up being more offensive for that reason.


Erik Deckers

I won't go into most of this for now, because I don't feel like typing that long and thinking everything through right now. But I do believe that referring to Christmas as X-mas should only be done in one of two situations:

1) not enough room to properly spell it out
2) the rare situation where it's known likely to offend and you want to avoid an argument

Christmas is special to me for reasons other than celebrating the birth of Christ, but that is what it is celebrating. That's the main reason for its being, and we must not forget that. The Christian holiday of Christmas exists to celebrate the birth of Christ. despite the materialism that has grown up, we must remember that. It's called Christmas for a reason.

Saying X-mas is to say Christmas without the Christ. Without Christ, what is Christmas?

I have 100% confidence that the Bible is the inspired writing of God.




[QUOTE]Proof denies faith though. QUOTE]


Boy, that says it all.

But as to not knowing if God exists, what is your faith? "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Let me apologise in advance Brian, for changing your post a bit and just say that while I know many sincere people think they are celebrating the birth of Jesus, may I dare to suggest that Jesus nowhere asked us to celebrate His birth, however, we ARE commanded to celebrate His death. This we do through the Lords supper service in most churches.

Just a thought.

So while some cry "lets' put Christ back into christ mass" I would ask whether He ever intended to be there in the first place!

Brian, as a businessman, I also sometimes send cards (non-Xmassy) out to clients thanking them for their support in the year.

Nothing wrong with that mate!

Again, we're just having a great time discussing this, I judge no one, God is the only Judge.

You make a very interesting point. I found many websites that agree with you. I would kindly have to disagree with you Tassie. We celebrate our own birthdays, we celebrate the birthdays of our Presidents. How could we possibly do that and not put our Lord first by celebrating His birthday even more? Back in the 1-2nd centuries, people celebrated the day people died, -- not the day they were born. So perhaps because of a shift in culture, the birthday is more popular than Easter. I DO think that Easter should be more popular than Christmas -- as Tassie says, the Bible tells us to remember His death.
Thank you for encouraging me to look this up!

God bless.

Maryellen, good point too! I'm certainly not as strict (and erroneous) and say JW's on birthdays. I celebrate birthdays too.

One problem is that no one knows the true birth date of our Lord and the date chosen (Dec.25th) was a well known pagan date.

Rather than take the discussion away from the topic here, those interested in further study on this issue are invited to an article on our churches' website.

You will either agree or disagree but it provokes thought.

http://home.cog7.org/publications/literatu...ts/christmas/en

Graham,
That is an extremely interesting article. I have known that the tradition of Christmas trees came from the pagan customs, but we have always had them as a matter of tradition. I will have to look further into this. Thank you for sharing the article.

Just out of curiosity, what are JW's?

Glad you like it Leslie, there's a good spirit in this forum, one of sharing and learning, which is the Father's Will for His children. Often we tend to get defensive and argumentitive when faced with concepts that are new.

In our church here I encourage people to check things out from the Bible and then believe it, but not just because I teach it.

JW's - nickname for Jehovah's Witnesses. They are fine people, many are my friends, and I have some small teachings in common with them, but their leaders take them to unbiblical extremes in some areas of teaching.

More indepth info may be found here http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/jwmain.htm

A word about me.
I spent many years as a young man involved in non-christian cults. When the Lord brought me out of such darkness I began to be concerned at the lack of information, concern and even ignorance within the church about cults.

I have sought in a small way to address that issue over the last 30 years.

As Christians, and lovers of things celtic, I feel that accurate knowledge and spiritual discernment is paramount as we often sail close to rocks in our celtic involvements.

Don't get me wrong, the early celtic saints were in the same position, more so! Some gained victory in the power of God, others scraped those "rocks" and perhaps may have compromised the faith.

With God all things are possible!