Beliefs And Practices, What do you do

hmmmmmm

I have the feeling that I have upset the apple cart here and that wasn't my intention.

PLEASE Don't misunderstand what I was trying to say, I use the word WICCA as a general term. I am also disgusted with the fluffy Bunny Wicca that has developed. My search is for true knowledge and the Truth itself. although Bardy I CAN see our ancestors holding a crystal and calling on it's energy and power.

The point that I was trying to make was that no matter what goes on in our lives, as we grow we shed the old and get brought in to something new. We as people change but we should never forget. We will always be bonded together as a family even if our feet walk different paths. It is OKAY to get interested in something else. We all have specific lessons that we must learn in order to grow how else would we learn if we didn't allow our belief systems to change??


I hope this clears up what I was saying.

much love,

I've been away for too long. [due to Pagan commitments on other boards] sorry.
Good subject guys. I'm enjoying playing catch up.
love
Jax

Angel, No apples knocked off m'cart.
And as the crystal thing goes.... There is very little proof that things of that nature happend. However, it is possible! I am sure that stones were carried as 'tokens' etc. And there is Acheology proof that many cultures carried stones, pieces of bone, seeds, and so on with them. But to walk to the east and spat 'fluffy bunny' stuff and go through steps A, B, C..... Nah, can't believe that. What the use for them was? I am afraid we will never * really* know.

I know throughout Celtic England, and Scotland as well. There have been items found in pools of water or former streams etc... Things like swords, carvings, torc's and so on. These items have been found in *high* numbers. Obviously offerings. So, maybe the crystal thing isn't too far off. Like I said stones etc. have been found in burial sites. ( Mainly as jewelry.. loose stone that have been carved into effigies(sp) have also been found.
I guess I am being redundant.. I just can not see the 'Fluffy' stuff happening during the Pre-Christian time periods.
Or maybe I am just a bit cracked?! LOL!

Angel, I'm not pickin' or anything.... OK?

Jaxom!!!! Good to see ya!!!!!

Nor can I.


I can't see pre-Christian's complaining about "the burning times"

Mary, so when do you think this practice of crystal using etc. started? Do you think it was with, Gerald Gardner, the 'father of modern day wicca'? Or before?
This is an interesting topic mutation.
I am sure in *someways* it may have always been done to anextent. But not to the degree it is today. There is too much of a cerimonial magick aspect to it, today. For it to be considered typical , common folk magick.
Thoughts.....????


Here are a few sites that I found about Gerald Gardner.
Gerald Gardner

Biography, and questions of Wicca history

VERY detailed history of gerald gardner

Good question. I can see people using them for ages, maybe as a talisman? Someone may have seen a pretty rock that "just had something about it", picked it up and had good luck from then on.

I can see how a practice like this can evolve from "I like this rock" to "this rock protects me" to "I can cure you with this rock".

I personally see too much emphasis placed on crystals. They are great tools, and pretty enough for "high ceremonial magick".





Where am I trying to go with this?? I have too many thoughts in my brain. I will just state how I feel about it.


Crystals are great. I think they are overused. I see people relying too much on a crystal instead of what is flowing through them, especially quartz crystals. I have a few, I think they are pretty, and I liked the feel I got from them. They are happy with me.

I do not use them for any ceremonial reasons. I would rather use pebbles I have found in a creek, and that would be more for marking my circle. (which I hardly do)

I am rambling.

I realize that I would rather use what energy is coming through me. I have been struggling with using herbs and other items. I wonder why I should take them, just because I "want to do a spell" for some reason. Should we be relying on what is inside us rather than our surroundings?





Ok, enough rambling. Jason, I hope you can make sense of this. It was good to sort out some things.

I understand what you are trying to get across, Mary. It seems as if these bells and whistles are becoming more important than the ritual itself. Like, 'You can't do it unless you have the ....BLAH' Says who?!

I think your comment about using things that are personal and found by your means is much more effective than going to the stone or Occult shop and buying the Large quartz 'because it will be more effective.'......
And also it comes back to our lack of connection with the natural world. And the over abundance of stimuli that one has to block out in todays world.
So, in that sence I can see where items like crystals etc. are benifical to the user!!! But in my mind, I tried to stive to not use them and use *my* 'inner power' ( so to speak) That is just me. I try to pull form the things in nature already. And I am lucky that my yard, and local woods are running over with things, that already put me in a mindset for Magick.
Everyone is diferent! And different things work for different people........

And I can agree with you, Mary on your brief 'evolution' of the possible use of crystals stonesand what not. Good theory, and plausable.

Ok, what are thoughts on ritual knives( Athame') or swords, boleens etc?

/me peeks in
May I step in where I'm not qualified again?
or should I just say what I have to say and let you more knowledgeable folks tell me if I'm qualified to not...

I make no secret that I consider myself agnostic. My main reason for this as opposed to some form of paganism is that I don't understand the symbolism and ritual. I don't understand what meaning various symbols mean in context. And an Agnostic stance frees me from symbolic connotations. As such, I hold, use, and carry no religous symbols. I do not wear a pentacle or a cross, I don't have any form of wand, atheme, rosary, or crusifix. I believe this to be where many religons have gone wrong. They place too much importance on symbols, and not enough on what they represent.

However, I cannot deny the omnipresence of God/Goddess. I feel it all the time, I see it. I hear it. I can't explain it, nor do I really care to. I can feel energies, perticularly when I pay attention to it. I can't see auras, but I can sense to a small degree, what kind of person they are on sight (not exceptionally accurate).

Any symbols I use, or anything that might be considered a ritual; I'm not aware of any spiritual/religous context of it. For me, it seems that the most physical representation of the spirit realm in my life (that I'm aware of anyway) is the creative arts. Words, Music, and drawing/painting/sketching/etc...


Opinions welcome This is one subject I want a lot more information on. Please help educate me =)

Why says you're not qualified? Come on in and join the discussion, Aaediwen.

Jax ! was wondering what happened to you Glad to see your back. care to share some of those other sites with us???



Bardy Boy,
well you make a very good point, we don't know what "Really" happened or how they did it, more then likely we are way off base. Though I am of the mind that it can not hurt to try. The heart is what matters. I'm not going to limit myself, I simply do what feels right for the circumstance.

I don't use many impliments in my rituals, mainly meditation, Incense, precious oils if I have them and a few candles for relaxation and of course some fantastic celtic music for low background mood noise. I do what ever it is I am gonna do and that's it,
well expect for when I am in the kitchen , but it is never a big production, I'm not in to Flamboint flare. besides the fact that with as often as people are here for dinner it is better off that they not know that as I have been making the meal I have blessed it in my own way.

So yeah if I ever have any of you around my kitchen table (which I hope will happen) you will know that the food has been "Magicked" (giggles)

I don't believe that "FBW" happened back in the pre-christian era, I believe that "FBW" is what was created 50-60 years ago. The problem facing us as serious practioners is we have to weed out the trash from the treasures. It is definatly a learning experience. My sister-inlaw is now studying Wicca and Witchcraft and man, some of the concepts she has been learning are so far off base I am surprised that she isn't trying to do spells to cook her food!

Raven and I are trying to set her straight and so far she has listened to what we have told her and she continues to ask questions, which is good. She is now barrowing books from my library and getting a better understanding of things.

needless to say this has been a very very bad week for this family so I think a double shot of meditation is due for the weekend. I'll see ya'll later.

much love,

Aaed,
I wear a dragon Pentacle and ring along with my amethyst and terquoise necklace (when it isn't broken)

I wear the Dragons because they are my familiars as a reminder and I just plain love them. the Amethyst I wear because it is my birthstone & the Turquoise I wear because I am 1/4 Cherokee Indian. all these things have personal meanings for me. That is why I wear them. they are person symbols for me and me alone.

yes, I actually talk to my dragons, it's better then telling some one that I talk to myself and I get a better reaction out of people that is just to die for in a laughing fit.

At least sh'e leaning and you can set her streight =) GL

True enough, but we are having to unteach her all the crap that she has learned from people who don't "Know what they are talking about" . When she said that I just started laughing. I looked at her and made the comment "what makes you think that I know what I am talking about?" I think it all has to do with a persons perspectives and how they see things. Raven and I disagree on some parts of Paganism but we see different sides of the same coin.

Anyway I hope what I said about the symbols I use makes sense to you hun, I know it can get extremely confusing.

Angel, you shouldn't limit yerself to A B AND ONLY C.
For me I think it is in the simpicity of things. There is a certain amount of cerimonial magick in modern wiccan magick. At least that is where it's foundation seems to be.
Which is great! But for me, for someone to claim that this is what was happening in the time even as pagan practices were meshed with Christian, I find very hard to believe. And I guess I should REALLY clarify that I am speaking of British Ilse areas, and some of Western Europe.

Because in Egypt, even what was to be come the Americas those people used stones, and other items we have discussed on a regular basis. For medicine, magick, and so on.....

And I think that todays modern 'witchcraft' has infused many of these other cultures practices. To make a completely eclectic 'craft'. Which there is nothing wrong with. My problem is with author's claming this is 'true celtic magick', or 'norse magick' or what have you. If you read these books, it is obvious that they are taking Gradenerian method and applying regional gods to the supposed
'Celtic' practices.

Am I beating the horse to death??????

Angel, I started to ask this one way then realised you had already answered how I was writing it. So any items you use don't really have any connection with your ritual or practice, as being more personal items, right? Similar to my Quill, cloak, or class ring for example? Items that have symbolic meaning, but not religous/spiritual meaning. Right?