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> State of scottish politics
Catriona 
Posted: 08-Dec-2002, 04:27 PM
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Freetobeme...

I think, if you read my previous post - you will see that I said I had no problem with FotW commenting on Scottish politics - he/she (I'm not sure of gender) does, after all, live in Scotland....  So, defend away, even if there is nothing to defend :( ..... I SAID I had no view on political comments.  My comments, were on his/her perception of Scottish history and culture....  and, as you have said, I have as much right as anyone else to express my views.

We, too, have freedom of Speech - in fact, isn't your constitution modelled on some of our (unwritten) rules - such as the Declaration of Arbroath, Habeas Corpus etc?
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CelticRadio 
Posted: 08-Dec-2002, 09:17 PM
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This looks like a Hot message thread, but I will throw my 2 cents in. We hear the word Bloody used alot and associated with British - here in the States. IN fact, I personally work with someone from England who uses this word on the fly everyday. I would not consider it the same as some of the common swear words, but grouped in with words like dam, heck, etc.

Also, I always thought that Scotland was a blending ground of different ethnic groups. What is it to be Scottish. Was it not a group of called the Scotties that came from Ireland and mixed with the Picts and then breed with some Vikings? I have read that the french, normans, dutch and even germans contribute to the ethnic mix of Scotland. Seems kinda like American - just a big blending pot. Of course, those blending pots produce some great peoples now don't they! :)



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Catriona 
Posted: 09-Dec-2002, 03:03 AM
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MacFive - you are right, Scotland IS a blend of many different ethnic strands.... but MOST of them ceased to be added into the 'melting pot' by about the year 1000 or so..   NOT the same thing as the point I was TRYING to make here  :(  

And yes, we do have a few 'ethnnic' minorities in Scotland, Indians, Pakistanis, West Indians etc....  but those people are Indian Pakistani etc who have chosen to settle in Scotland.... however, when their children are born and brought up in the same country as me, then of course they are Scots....  maybe not ethnically, but in just the same way as an Indian in the USA, or Canada or Aus would be a 'native' of those countries.....

I really think that the problem is that most of you have no personal knowledge of Scotland and how we live  :(

I cannot believe how much animosity my views seem to have generated here.....   all the more difficult to comprehend as I have expressed NO animus about the original poster and his/her view of Scots politics which seems to have generated some of the ire  ::confused

As for the word 'bloody' - this is not a word that you would use in 'polite' conversation....  :)D   Believe me, if I used that word in a meeting it would be met with much raising of eyebrows.....  It may well be a word that some people use as commonly as 'darn',  and I would admit this is true - usually when talking to someone you know well and you are talking informally.....but here it is certainly NOT in the same category as 'heck'  :D
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free2Bme 
Posted: 09-Dec-2002, 10:07 AM
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I think that what I have found to be most offensive regarding this discussion/debate/thread is that rather than sticking to the subject, some posts have made left-handed references to Nazi Germany. To call someone a Nazi, just because you disagree with them, is considerably more offensive than the use of the word "bloody."


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Catriona 
Posted: 09-Dec-2002, 10:42 AM
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Janet
I have quickly reviewed this entire thread, and I cannot find any reference, oblique or otherwise to calling someone a Nazi....  but perhaps I missed it?

If you are talking about my comment about the 'repressive regime' - I was talking about East Germany which was a 'separate' country from the FDR until the Berlin Wall came down and Germany was reunified.  They were not Nazis. As far as I was taught, the Nazis were defeated in 1945.
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Faileas 
Posted: 09-Dec-2002, 01:27 PM
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A Chatriona,

tha mi gle dhuillich if i swore at u but i was quite upset about the tone of your post. Sorry i didnt mean to be impolite. I know that i am not born in Scotland and wont deny that but Scotland Is my homecountry. And i dont come from East Germany, I was born in the Black Forest. My family never was involved in the 3rd Reich, on no side whatsoever. Its just my general perception about German history. Please accept my appology.  ;)


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free2Bme 
Posted: 09-Dec-2002, 01:36 PM
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Me too Catriona -

I am a very stubborn and opinionated person, and also quite vocal. As for butting in to things I know nothing about - I do that all the time - just look at any message board I have ever posted on!

This is how I learn things. I ask tons of questions, I give my opinions based on my experiences and perceptions, I seek advice, and I poke and prod to get at the truth of a matter. I try to do this in the most respectful and polite manner as possible.

That is how one is able to aquire a Master's Degree in Education - by simply knowing how to ask the right people the right questions.

BTW, I think that one of my character flaws is that Scottish Temper of mine! Please accept my apology too!
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Catriona 
Posted: 09-Dec-2002, 04:27 PM
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Look, I do not wish to 'faw oot' with anyone.   ::confused You have both made your views plain, as have I. Perhaps we need to agree to disagree?  :)  No apologies are necessary.
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Macquarrie 
Posted: 11-Jan-2003, 02:25 PM
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Is it any wonder the racist, sectarian, English rule Scotland, Ireland, and Wales.  No bother trying to unite and focus on ruling your own country.  Let's argue!  After all it is the Celtic way.
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Catriona 
Posted: 11-Jan-2003, 05:51 PM
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'Racist sectarian English'.... rule Scotland, Ireland and Wales..?

Away ye go.....
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Faileas 
  Posted: 17-Jan-2003, 03:20 PM
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Right ye are Catriona!

Harmony and understanding
sympathy and trust about it
no more falsehood and derision
golden living dreams and visions .......

::yingyang ::angel ::flower  ::luvscotland ::luvireland
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Knightly Knight 
Posted: 20-Jan-2003, 09:46 PM
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I just finished reading this entire thread. In the immortal words of someones whos name I cant seem to remember." Can't we all just get along?" (small joke).  (b)

Heres my quandry. One of my Great-Grandmothers was an Osage Indian from what is now called Missouri in the US. One of my Great Great Grandfathers came from Scotland.  I have been learning about my heritage from them both. There are other cultures involved but these two interest me the most.  :)

I never lived as an Osage Indian, I never lived as a Scot. Does this make me less valuable because I wasn't full-blooded and never lived as an Indian or Scot?  MY QUESTION: If someone wants to learn in ernest about something which they do not know or have a limited scope of knowledge, don't you do yourself justice by helping them learn?  When people feel a kinship to me I allow them in my life, ( not necessarily my wallet though, capitalist you know) lol  :D , and let them get to know me, worts and all. i can be patient and teach thm who the "real " me is. Sometimes they have misconceptions and have to learn. Sometimes I learn why they think what they do. When we both listem we both learn.

I haven't learned yet why my GG-Grandfather came to America.  I do know the Osage had their own Trail of Tears to Oklahoma.  :(   I do feel my people from many corners of the world were cast aways of sorts. No One who is pushed from a land is content. I have no romanticism of either people, but i feel a kinship to each group. I have one thing to say about Most Politicians but it isn't fit to say in a room alone
Let us as People embrace each other and our ways. Lets us learn when its time and let us teach when its time.  ( off my soapbox now)  (d)


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Catriona 
Posted: 21-Jan-2003, 05:16 AM
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Quote (Knightly Knight @ Jan. 20 2003,10:46)
I never lived as an Osage Indian, I never lived as a Scot. Does this make me less valuable because I wasn't full-blooded and never lived as an Indian or Scot?  MY QUESTION: If someone wants to learn in ernest about something which they do not know or have a limited scope of knowledge, don't you do yourself justice by helping them learn?  When people feel a kinship to me I allow them in my life, ( not necessarily my wallet though, capitalist you know) lol  :D , and let them get to know me, worts and all. i can be patient and teach thm who the "real " me is. Sometimes they have misconceptions and have to learn. Sometimes I learn why they think what they do. When we both listem we both learn.

I haven't learned yet why my GG-Grandfather came to America.  I do know the Osage had their own Trail of Tears to Oklahoma.  :(   I do feel my people from many corners of the world were cast aways of sorts. No One who is pushed from a land is content. I have no romanticism of either people, but i feel a kinship to each group. I have one thing to say about Most Politicians but it isn't fit to say in a room alone
Let us as People embrace each other and our ways. Lets us learn when its time and let us teach when its time.  ( off my soapbox now)  (d)

Hello, Knightly Knight.....  just a couple of points in your post that I wanted to raise.....!

Of COURSE you are no less valuable a person because you were not raised as an Osage or a Scot.....   I don't think anyone was suggesting for a minute that anyone is worth less than anyone else here....?  Or did I misread something? :(

I think that I have proved my willingness to assist anyone here with any questions they may have about Scotland, our history or how we live today..... :)  If you have any specific queries, ask away - I'm not infallible and I don't know everything (contrary to what some of you seem to THINK  I think!!!) - but I do have resources here that are perhaps not so readily available to people overseas.

As I have tried to say, many Scots who left Scotland were not 'cleared' or forcibly expatriated.....   they desired a better life for their families than was available to them in Scotland...  an good on them for doing so....!  It takes considerable courage to strike out in a foreign country in conditions of real hardship.  I applaud their courage and fortitude!

The fact is, as you state yourself, you have other nationalities in your background, but you are PARTICULARLY interested in the Osage and the Scots - but that obviously does not negate the 'input' from the rest of your family gene pool.....    After all, they help to make you 'you'!  

Would that some others I've met on the net felt the same :D
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Cabbagehome 
  Posted: 22-Jan-2003, 03:54 AM
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::viking Wellcome back Knightly Knight
It's good to see you back in the room again. Yes I agree, when we are so mixed up, all we can do is specialize, in 1 or 2 parts at a time. I spent quite a while, studing Black Dutch, I came out more confussed, than when I went in.  Finding my birth mother is fairly recent event, has lead me to a study of Apachie and Irish, culture. I've reached a dead end with my father, as my aunt has died.
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Knightly Knight 
Posted: 27-May-2003, 05:41 PM
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Hi all Im back.

Cabbagehome thanks for the Hello

Catriona. Please accept my apologies if I have offened you. I do agree many people do many different things for many different reasons. After reading your second post I see where I erred. I mistook your intent.

Please tell me if this what you are saying Many different reasons motivated people to leave Scotland, not only clearances They may have had an idea or dream for something different for them and their families. No one can point at any ONE Reason. People in many coountries do this today for various reasons

I know of many people who fought for a freedom in their own country and won it but moved to my country FOR DIFFERENT REASONS. I have worked with Russians, Bosnians, Eritreans, Ethiopians. Again many different reasons brought them here. For some it was a thought of a better life. For some it was to be with loved ones. For some it was because of political persecution
Inside my own country people move from location to location for different reason and it would be silly to say they they all moved for the same reason.

When I first read your post, I (mistakenly) though you were saying the clearances was a very minor part of the history of that country. I leave pronouncing my apologies.

I hope I can also leave as your friend


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