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> Clone News 2/09/05, This unnerves me...
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 09-Feb-2005, 10:43 AM
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On the news this morning, they reported that the guy in Scotland who cloned that poor sheep now has permission to clone humans! Does this unnerve anyone but me?? All I can think is, if permission has been legally given to clone a human embryo, its not going to be long before somebody clones themself or a lost loved one...
Think of all the ethical issues in this Pandora's Box!


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Randy 
Posted: 09-Feb-2005, 11:34 AM
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I do not want to critize anyones point of view here, but do you know why they are doing it?? They have found a treatment that will CURE Loe Gehrig disease.

Maybe I should not post in the forum, because I am a research scientist finishing my PhD and I am probably the enemy here, but I want you to understand why things are being done.
Think of your child needing an organ if cloning was easier to get funded it will someday be possible to grow the organ. We are far from that but it will be possible.
Cloning WILL happen whether we like it or not, but I think you would rather it happen here then in some unregulated 3rd world country.
As far as cloning humans I can assure you that it is SO far in the future that I would not loose sleep at night. Technology is not close there yet. Also please do not think cloning embryos is a bunch of little babies in bottles all over the lab. This is an absolute misconception and allows emotions take over.
But remember that when this is possible there will be not more genetic predisposition to any disease including cancer, down syndrome, etc.
Please do not be afraid of science I do not know anyone who wants to may SUPER HUMANS, but I know many who are trying to cure diseases and make peoples live better.
Is it ethical to let millions die when you can help them with out hurting anyone.

If you have any questions that will make you feel better about this just ask I will do my best to help you out.

Back to my experiment ))

BTW sorry for all the spelling and grammar problem science is my life not english ))

Randy
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emerald-eyedwanderer 
  Posted: 09-Feb-2005, 01:07 PM
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I am no science major but I agree with Randy. In the past most major scienitific break throughs have been met with fear because it is new and it is the unknown. We have learned to live and accept most of them. This is just one of the newest ones this society will have to deal with. And just as in the past, with these new produres or testing there will be new laws to protect the people. The people wouldn't stand for anything else.

It would be ideal to be able to produce things that people need to live. No one suffering for months or years waiting until someone else dies so they can get a heart, ect. I don't fear it, in the long run those people really just want to make things better for all of us.


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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 10-Feb-2005, 08:07 PM
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QUOTE (Randy @ 09-Feb-2005, 11:34 AM)
I do not want to critize anyones point of view here, but do you know why they are doing it?? They have found a treatment that will CURE Loe Gehrig disease.

Maybe I should not post in the forum, because I am a research scientist finishing my PhD and I am probably the enemy here, but I want you to understand why things are being done.
Think of your child needing an organ if cloning was easier to get funded it will someday be possible to grow the organ. We are far from that but it will be possible.
Cloning WILL happen whether we like it or not, but I think you would rather it happen here then in some unregulated 3rd world country.
As far as cloning humans I can assure you that it is SO far in the future that I would not loose sleep at night. Technology is not close there yet. Also please do not think cloning embryos is a bunch of little babies in bottles all over the lab. This is an absolute misconception and allows emotions take over.
But remember that when this is possible there will be not more genetic predisposition to any disease including cancer, down syndrome, etc.
Please do not be afraid of science I do not know anyone who wants to may SUPER HUMANS, but I know many who are trying to cure diseases and make peoples live better.
Is it ethical to let millions die when you can help them with out hurting anyone.

If you have any questions that will make you feel better about this just ask I will do my best to help you out.

Back to my experiment ))

BTW sorry for all the spelling and grammar problem science is my life not english ))

Randy

Hey, thanks for your answer! I'm glad to read your perspective on this issue.
I've just heard some scientists say that its possible to use stem cells from adults to cure certain ailments and that its not absolutely necessary to clone embryos in order to get stem cells that will work... but I'm no scientist, so I don't know who to believe.
You're right, cloning will happen whether we like it or not. But just because we can do something doesn't always mean we should.

Some people would say an embryo is a baby, just as much as a full-term baby is at birth.

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gwenlee 
Posted: 11-Feb-2005, 06:47 AM
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I find the idea of human cloning scary because the potential for misuse is so great. But from what I have read on the issue the cloning of a human is very complex and the possibility is small that a human could be successfully cloned. I know that a lot of people say look at all the suffering we could avoid if we could "fix it", but I feel we have no right to go that far in science. Its one thing to grow new organs but to try and clon a whole human being for the purpose of harvesting needed organs is too much. I have a daughter who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis at the age of 17 and right after her diagnosis an article came out about stem cell research/cloning as a mother I thought wow but my daughter said she would never consent to the treatment because she believes life begins at conception ( a reflection of my belief). I know there is a lot of research going on to find cures for various disease and I think we will find cures for what ailes man through other means besides cloning. btw my daughter is about to graduate with a degree in Chemistry and plans to go into pharmaceutical research. Hopefully people like her will be able to find cures without the issues of human cloning.
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 11-Feb-2005, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE (gwenlee @ 11-Feb-2005, 06:47 AM)
I have a daughter who was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis at the age of 17 and right after her diagnosis an article came out about stem cell research/cloning as a mother I thought wow but my daughter said she would never consent to the treatment because she believes life begins at conception ( a reflection of my belief)....

That's what I believe too, Gwenlee.

I am so proud of your daughter who is about to graduate! Tell her congratulations for me; that's such an accomplishment. I have two adult friends who developed MS during their 40's, and that is one tough illness to deal with.
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MDF3530 
  Posted: 11-Feb-2005, 03:28 PM
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As I said somewhere else on these message boards, I am for any kind of research, including genetic research, that could save my life 30 or 40 years from now.

Let me explain.

Alzheimer's Disease runs in my family. My grandma died of it, my Uncle Chuck is in a nursing home because of it, and I think my Aunt Miriam is in the beginning stages of it.

Do you think Alzheimer's scares me?

You're damn right it does.


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gwenlee 
Posted: 11-Feb-2005, 09:30 PM
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Illness and getting old is something that can be frightening to all of us. But we weren't meant to live forever. And I sometime wonder if that is what people are wanting out of stem cell and cloning research. In curing a disease by cloning or stem cell are we opening up the door to another disease? Don't get me wrong I am a nurse and I deal with life and death and the families that have to deal with it daily. As nurses we often ask ourselves are we prolonging life or are we prolonging death? Cloning isn't a vaccination or drug, people are actually thinking of creating a life. A life that could be terminated to cure a human being. Who are we to say these clons don't have a soul? Are we going to have a whole society of "sub-humans", a group of beings that have no rights all because they were created in the lab? Are we going to grow clons like farm animal and keep them until needed? I think there is a lot of questions that need to be answered be for we venture into this area of science, we need to be responsible.
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Lil 
Posted: 13-Feb-2005, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (MDF3530 @ 11-Feb-2005, 03:28 PM)

Alzheimer's Disease runs in my family.

Do you think Alzheimer's scares me?

You're damn right it does.

yeah, I know what you mean, my great grandmother had it, though back then it was not called "Alzheimer's, it was simply called "senility".
My husband's aunt Talitha has it now, so it is affecting me again in my grownup years, as well as in my childhood.
In some ways, I am grateful that my grandparents went home before this terrible disease could get a hold on them.

As to the issue of cloning, I do not have a problem with it as long as it is limited to only cloning organs or a particular cell.
I don't much like the "Frankenstinean" overtones of the whole cloning process, but I also don't want to put my kids through what I know my nana went through when my Great Grandmother was ill, because I helped take care of her.

Randy,
Thank you for the information, it helps clarify a lot.

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Randy 
Posted: 14-Feb-2005, 09:11 AM
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It is funny you bring up Alzheimer's. My speciality is the Mitochondria (Organelle that is the "powerhouse" of the cell) This mito also helps regulate apoptosis (programed cell death) This is important because cancer can be thought of as cells that because of some genetic defect do not enter apoptosis. Anyway I could go on forever because you name a disease I can find a way the mito is involved. Back to Alzheimer's, there is a fairly large lab here that specializes in the disease. Think of the disease like this. You brain tissue produces a chemical that needs to be removed from the cell. As cells age they loose the ability to remove this and it builds up. Eventually this affects cells function and triggers apoptosis.

Anyway again if anyone has any specific question just ask I will help you understand.

See ya )

Randy
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 14-Feb-2005, 11:16 AM
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My paternal grandmother was diagnosed with 'dementia' but my maternal grandmother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, and the two afflictions seemed very different to us... Alzheimer's is truly a sad disease, so troubling to watch it turn a loved one into someone who doesn't even recognize their family. I remember watching that grandmother go through stages, first where she was confused & couldn't remember the word for something; then she'd forget where she was going; then she'd forget to eat or take meds; she had to live in a nursing home for about 3 years and steadily declined until finally her already weak heart just stopped.
But you know what was strangely comforting? In those last couple of years, she didn't recognize me or my mom (her own daughter!) but she was peaceful and spoke sometimes to her loved ones who had died long ago... she was in another place, an obviously happier place, and once she died it was like she went to be there forever. We grieved her passing but at the same time sensed she'd been released from here...

It scares me too, MDF, the thought of coming down with Alz. myself - but not to the point that I would be in favor of using cloned humans to find a cure. I may fear suffering (mine as well as that of those I love) but I do not fear death; if death is imminent then bring it on.

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DesertRose 
Posted: 18-Feb-2005, 06:13 PM
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Well I am going to sound stupid here, but will go for it anyway. I admit I know very little about all this cloning business. Thanks Randy and others who have explained it. But I am going to go a litle off topic here to have a question that you all can answer me. I know even less about stem cell research. I know, I am under a rock, but I really haven't paid that much attention to what it is and what it all means. So what all is stem cell research and what all does it involve? Thanks in advance! smile.gif


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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 22-Feb-2005, 01:20 PM
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On 11 Feb. this article appeared in my newspaper:

"Scientists have discovered a rare type of stem cell in the hearts of newborn infants that shows promise for repairing congenital heart defects - and may someday be used even in adults to fix the damage of heart attacks. Known as 'cardiac progenitor cells', they are remenants of fetal development previously thought to be extinct after birth. Their discovery in newborns opens a new path in the field of regenerative medicine for heart disease.
'This is the type of discovery that will refocus research' said Dr. Elizabeth Nabel an expert on cell therapies for cardiovascular disease...
The experiments showed how the specialized heart-building cells can be isolated, purified and expanded in laboratory dishes, then coaxed into becoming functional cardiac cells. Unlike mature heart cells which cannot divide, the progenitors are self-renewing."

If this research eventually shows that indeed newborn heart cells are useful for treating congenital heart defects or heart attack victims, perhaps those third trimester babies that are to be aborted will be actually useful then before they are killed.

*shudder*

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