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> Magdalen Sisters/laundries, film review and link to what happened
barddas 
Posted: 01-Aug-2003, 01:43 PM
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This is my first hearing about this. This morning I heard about what had happend on NPR. So, I thought I would see what I could dig up.




The Magdalen Sisters Review:Beverley Hancock
This is one Mother Superior who certainly won't be singing Climb Every Mountain!
FACT

From February 22nd

Director: Peter Mullen

Starring: Geraldine McEwan, Nora-Jane Noone, Dorothy Duffy


The BBC is not responsible for the content of external websites.


Take one fanatical Mother Superior, three new ?inmates? at a Magdalene Laundry, and one oppressive regime and you have all the makings for a hard hitting and compelling debut feature, by director Peter Mullen.

But be warned, you may never sing along to Sister Act with the same light-hearted abandon again!

The film is set in the 1960s, a time of free love and sexual independence, but not that is if you were a devout Irish Catholic.

Mortal sin

Whilst their British counterparts revelled in their new found liberation, unmarried Irish mothers and those considered by a strict Catholic society to have a low moral virtue, were in effect imprisoned by their families at a Magdalene Laundry and made to work to atone their sins?.

And it is to one such laundry that Margaret (Annne-Marie Duff), Rose (Dorothy Duffy) and Bernadette (Nora-Jane Jones), are sent. A victim of rape, an unmarried mother and a beautiful, headstrong girl, their punishment for such mortal sin, is to work, unpaid 365 days a year in conditions more fitting to a 19th Century goal.

To say the girls bond in friendship is misleading as talking is strictly forbidden, and this a times, leads to a slightly sluggish pace, as character interaction is minimal.

What snatches of conversation the girls achieve, highlights the hopelessness of their situation as their families are as much their jailer as the nuns.

Ritual Humiliation

And what nuns they are! Whilst some nuns may pass the time singing about climbing mountains, these sisters while away long hours in ritual humiliation of the girls, naked runs, and abuse are all inherent in the system.

Brutal and uncomfortable viewing, but essentially, nothing new.

For anyone, like me, who religiously (no pun intended) watched ?Brides of Christ?, or indeed any drama concerning Orthodox Catholicism and its often oppressive, hypocritical treatment of women in particular, this film offers nothing new.

Whilst the performances were excellent and the film included some beautiful imagery, a pan across the bleak and bare dorms with a worn and battered ?Merry Christmas? banner suspended on the wall, held great pathos, I couldn?t help but feel that I?d seen it all before.

The last Magdalene Laundry closed in 1996

That is however, until the final moments in the film, when a caption informs the audience that the last Magdalene Laundry closed in 1996.

Shocking - most certainly, but I am undecided as to whether the nature if this throw away line strengthened or weakened the piece.

If this indeed was the point that is to make this investigation of Catholic hypocrisy different from the so many gone before it, then should it have been lent more prominance?

Overall, this film is not an easy watch and it was never intended to be so. For the performances and the direction, it is a satisfying piece of cinema, for the subject matter - the jury?s still out.


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barddas 
Posted: 01-Aug-2003, 02:18 PM
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This is one of the items I have found so far.....

I never heard of this! You would think you would... Or I wasn't listening at the time....



Originally printed by An Phoblacht/Republican News, Thursday 25 April 1996



``Reflect here upon their lives''

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Meadbh Gallagher examines the controversy behind the Goldenbridge orphanage, the Magdalen laundries and other church institutions for women and children.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Today, if you walk into the centre of Stephen's Green, just to the right of where a magnolia is stretching in full blossom sits a new wooden bench. On it is a metal plaque enscribed with small faceless heads and the words: ``To the women who worked in the Magdalen laundry institutions and to the children born to some members of those communities - reflect here upon their lives.''

In his autobiography, Pat Tierney explains that for the greater part of this century, the state paid the churches to keep people in institutions, ``usually situated behind high stone walls''. The Magdalen laundries were just part of the structure of orphanages, industrial schools and asylums catering for the needs of this mass internment policy. Thousands of women went through them, many died in them. The internees of the industrial schools and `orphanages' were often the children of the `penitents' doing laundry labour in the Magdalen institutions.

Industrial schools alone detained over 70,000 children between1900 and 1970. Pat Tierney was one of these. On the 4 January this year, Pat hanged himself on church grounds in Drumcondra, Dublin. Hours earlier, he had rung Patricia McDonnell to talk about the day a memorial would be dedicated to the Magdalen women and children, a day both of them had worked for - Pat for three years, Patricia for 35. Last Saturday, the memorial bench was unveiled at the site Pat and Patricia had chosen in Stephen's Green. The President, Mary Robinson described the occasion as ``historic''.

There are a lot of church grounds in Drumcondra. Travel up Grace Park Road behind the Archbishop's palace and your view to the left is constantly blocked by stone walls, up to fifteen feet in height, enclosing Catholic church property. Near the top of the road is High Park Convent; it was here in 1993 that the Magdalen women suddenly became the subject of public controversy. The owners of the convent, the Sisters of Our Lady of Charity, had ordered the mass exhumation of 133 bodies of Magdalen laundry women buried in a section of the convent grounds. The reason? They had sold the 12-acre section to developers for around one million pounds.

Re-interred in a double grave on the edge of Glasnevin cemetery, the 133 bodies have been joined by 42 more. Under the heading `St Mary's High Park, In Loving Memory of', 175 names and dates of death are listed on grey stone, the first in April 1858, the last in December 1994. There are no religious trimmings on the grave.

Despite the publicity which accompanied the 1993 exhumation, the question still lingers: who are the Magdalen women, that they can be so easily discarded, without explanation and in such numbers?

``The nuns have been at pains to point out that the Magdalen women were poor illiterate destitutes but I would dispute that totally'', Patricia McDonnell says. ``My sister-in-law's father had a farm, a butcher's shop and a dairy herd which supplied all the people within a 10-mile radius with their daily milk.'' In the early 1940s, the girl, Chrissie, was taken from a Galway village and driven by the local priest to a Magdalen laundry in Dun Laoghaire.

``Her parents had both died and she was the only daughter in a family of nine. She was 16. For some reason, the parish priest decided that this girl was ``in moral danger''. He told her brother he'd got her a job in Dublin and the 21-year-old had no reason to doubt the priest's integrity.

``She simply disappeared into the system. When her brother would inquire how she was the priest would suggest they ought to leave her alone. When she came out nearly 20 years later she was really in quite a disgusting condition and weighed about four stone.''

------------------------------------------------------------------------

``History is pregnant and the truth is pushing out and there's no virtue in silence anymore. The ones who wouldn't bow and the ones who wouldn't swallow prove you can't destroy all spirits with some lies''.
from a poem for the Magdalen women by Maighread Medbh
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Another Galway woman, who had an institutional background similar to the Goldenbridge cases highlighted by the `Dear Daughter' television documentary, remembers the threat that she'd be sent to the Magdalen ``asylum'' as punishment for misbehaving. As her mother was ill and her father couldn't get work Maria Madden [not her real name] and her two brothers and one sister were all put in orphanages in the late `40s. From the age of five to 16, she was in St Ann's industrial school, Lenaboy, in Galway. During this time both her parents died. Maria remembers nothing from the age of five to 11. Then she remembers too much. For example, in class, a nun, Sr Coleman, used half of a brush handle to beat the children with. ``She'd belt you black and blue. You'd be hit on your hands and then she'd follow you around the classroom belting you on your back and legs and arms.'' Another punishment was getting your hair cut. ``One girl had hers cut with a breadknife. That was your punishment, to make you look as bad as they could.''

The stories come out in parts, as though they're caught in a mesh. ``People say I should forget my childhood, but should they forget theirs? Should we only talk about childhoods if they are happy ones?''

Maria was put in the school laundry at 11 or 12, ``a frightening place, with big basins, a tank and dripping water''. In the laundry she washed the childrens' own clothes. The nuns' laundry was sent out to the Magdalen. Next door in the furnace the clothes were dried and she would `tease' the straw in mattresses before putting it back in again.

``Someone said to me `it's like something out of Dickens' and it made me think, am I being believed here, because it's not something that far back, it's something much nearer than that.''

A school photograph shows Maria and her class in their best pinafores, which were worn once or twice a year. Maria points to one face: ``I don't know what she done, but this girl was taken away when she was about 15 and put in the Magdalen laundry as punishment. I don't know if she ever got out''.

``We were threatened that if we didn't get our period we'd be put in the `sanatorium'. I would be terrified. A group of girls younger than me, their periods all came at the same time in the way they often do when girls are together, and the nun began not to believe them. She'd make some of them take their knickers off and show her their knickers.''

Summing up her experience in St Ann's, Maria says: ``You looked after the younger children, you looked after yourself and you were a child yourself.'' She recalls when she was 12, herself and another girl were given two babies to mind. ``We used to have to get up in the middle of the night to feed them. One night I got up and put the ring on to heat up the milk. Somehow I fell asleep and woke up to smoke everywhere and nuns running down the corridor. Sr Coleman gave out to us for that but didn't hit us.''

------------------------------------------------------------------------

``I have gone through so many revolving doors, psychological revolving doors that I've never seemed to get out of anything. Whether in or out, I was still locked into the system.''
------------------------------------------------------------------------


I asked Maria what she had thought of the Dear Daughter programme. ``I was bored'', she admits, ``I suppose `cause I've been there; I thought I'd hear something different.''

A day after her sixteenth birthday in 1965 Maria was taken to Dublin and put to work for a wealthy family. For a further fifteen years she worked as a domestic servant, starting out earning 10 shillings a week and walking away in 1980 with £15. ``I was his punchbag,'' she says of the man she worked for, a reputable doctor. ``Where were my rights? Why didn't I report him? I didn't know I had any. You were brought up to believe you had no rights: you were there to wait on other people, to do exactly as they told you. You didn't argue, you never did anything for yourself, nobody ever did anything for you, you did everything for everybody else - that was your life.''

Maria went to counselling when she got married but still has low self esteem, she says. ``I've never felt 100% good about myself, the damage has been done.''

``I don't love myself, I can give love but can't accept it; you can do so much for people and not accept it back. For years I was told I was nothing, that I'd never be anything. I am something, but I can't convince myself.''

She now works for a woman who gives out about ``all the orphanage stories''. ``They're all going for the money now,'' the woman is fond of telling her. Maria finds it hard to take, this constant doubting of the stories of abuse. ``Those affected have every right to raise their stories. Our rights were taken from us when we were young, we're entitled to have them back now. The two nuns I'd want to get at are dead and gone. I just want to never allow it to happen again.''

Kathleen Maher describes the effect of the Goldenbridge stories on her as ``like opening a filing cabinet and getting to look at all these files inside''. She could relate to the Goldenbridge experience. She was born in St Patrick's Home for Unmarried Mothers on the Navan Road in Dublin. Her mother was one of thousands who found herself pregnant and unmarried in the 1940s, her family unable to meet her needs. St Patrick's at this time had 500 babies, it was severely overcrowded. Separated at eight months, Kathleen and her mother lived parallel lives in religious institutions. She describes a childhood ``of distance and denial'' and then spending all her life trying to get a profile of a relationship between herself and her mother. While Kathleen was in St Philomena's home in Stillorgan, her mother was transferred to the Magdalen laundry in Donnybrook ``as part of her penance''. At 11, Kathleen was transferred to the Lakelands industrial school in Sandymount, another institution with its share of cruelty to its children. She has heard the view that as corporal punishment was the norm outside, the nuns in these institutions were only doing what was expected of them. She asks: ``Does that justify such behaviour?

``The record of priests and nuns is not good. They should not be told that everything is all right now. They should answer the questions exactly as a criminal would.''

In Sandymount, Kathleen mixed for the first time with children who had known life on the outside and had experienced family life. She also learnt street language there and after trying out the words ``fuck off'' on a nun, her punishment was to be transferred back to Stillorgan. ``I was sent back to the place I hated, to mind children and to clean. I had no experience of childcare and was just a potwalloper.

``The system was so structured; they used this internal structure so that they always had some arrangement made to relocate someone, this collusion amongst themselves and then of course, the courts and the rest of society helped them.''

A friend of Kathleen's was transferred to the Donnybrook Magdalen laundry after she came in one night with love bites on her neck. Twice she escaped and twice she was brought back to the laundry by Gardai. Kathleen was threatened with the laundry when she was late back another night but her reaction may have saved her from ending up in the same place her mother had passed through. ``I thought at the time I needed to show some strength so I said, well, if you're putting me away then put me away.'' Instead, now aged 15, she was sent out as a domestic servant, then into a series of jobs working for doctors and on ward duties in hospitals.

``I have gone through so many revolving doors, psychological revolving doors that I've never seemed to get out of anything. Whether in or out, I was still locked into the system, with no way to unravel everything.''

------------------------------------------------------------------------

``I don't know what she done, but this girl was taken away when she was about 15 and put in the Magdalen laundry as punishment. I don't know if she ever got out''.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Kathleen Maher, Patricia McDonnell and Maria Madden have two things in common other than their connections with institutional care in Ireland. None of them solely blame `the nuns' but see society and the state as colluders. Kathleen Maher views it like this: ``The church colluded with the state, and society, dictated to by the church, readily fed into that''. All three also share a concern for women and children at risk or in care today. Patricia McDonnell is concerned there is not enough monitoring of children in care. ``I think we still pay lip service to our care for the underprivileged. We discarded some of our people without a thought to their rights or to our constitution in the past and the bit about all children being equal has been abandoned left, right and centre. One only has to look at the recent Kelly Fitzgerald case to confirm that.''

Of most concern to Patricia is the fact that there is no legal obligation on religious institutions to keep records, nor is there an obligation on them to publish existing records.

As a community worker, day to day Kathleen Maher sees women trying to develop better support systems for women and children than currently exist. ``The question is,'' she says, ``what will be the question we will be asking ourselves about our care of children in 25 years?'' An unmarried woman who becomes pregnant today goes on a rollercoaster for services, Kathleen says. ``She may have to move to find these services and find herself in a situation where she knows nobody. As she goes through the system of reporting she's homeless and has no money, nothing is concrete, everything is ad hoc, so that there is nothing to suggest women can feel safe when they leave home or when they find themselves pregnant.

``They often end up more vulnerable than they were, and often to the detriment of their health. They become more disconnected from mainstream servuces, their options become limited and they are at risk.''

In spite of the continuing hostile environment for single mothers, ten per cent of families in the 26 Counties are now lone parent families and about 17% of births occur outside marriage, compared to 5.4% in 1981. This trend follows the same pattern throughout Europe. In addition, more mothers are opting to keep their babies rather than have them adopted. In 1982, 18.6% of all adoption orders went to women applying to adopt their own children. In 1992, the figure was 43.6%. State provision of services however, lag far behind. Despite the realities, the system is still geared to deal solely with women who are married or attached.

Kathleen Maher notes how a woman still has to fulfil one of three conditions to be eligible for a Dublin Corporation flat: ``She needs to be married, living with a fella, or have a child''. So in her own right a woman has no right to housing.

Today the number of Irish women seeking abortions abroad continues to rise. The state continues to export a problem. Throughout the period of institutionalisation for the women featured above, children were being exported.The treatment of women as a empty vessel and children as a commodity was vividly being demonstrated through a child migration policy overseen by the churches and implemented by the state. Two thousand children were taken from their mothers and sent abroad, some ending up on the same ships as English children being exported under a smiliar policy exercised from the end of the last century up until the 1960s by Britain. In the Irish case, not only did the birth mother have to give up all rights to the child, but the adoptive mother had to guarantee to give up work, not use contraceptives and to give the child a Catholic education. The Archbishop who devised these rules, John Charles McQuaid, frustrated attempts to bring in adoption legislation in the Irish Free State until his church virtually wrote the eventual Adoption Act of 1952. The same Archbishop presided over the majority of the state's industrial schools and Magdalen institutions.

Last Saturday, there was not a church collar to be seen at the ceremony to dedicate a park bench to the Magdalen women. Several church representatives had been invited. The Catholic Archbishop of Dublin had been approached to give even a one-line statement. Nothing was forthcoming. The silence surrounding the failure of the churches (not all institutions were Catholic) and the state to acknowledge their guilt continues, the mainstream media duly obliging. Focus instead is on individual nuns and priests who are given the benefit of trial and appeal by media. The former internees of the institutions are left to be doubted or left to be written off as `victims' or as history.

As Kathleen Maher finishes talking to me, she pulls from her pocket a letter received by a woman regarding the absence of her daughter from school in Ballymun a month ago. Under `penalties' the parent is warned her child could be ``placed under the guardianship or committed to an industrial school''. The Act under which this penalty falls, the School Attendance Act 1926, was one of those used to institutionalise children this century. For this mother and child, it's not all in the past.

Two images relating to her childhood come from Maria Madden as she talks. One is a recurring nightmare: she is being sucked out the landing window of St Ann's by the wind. In the other, she is looking out the same window saying, ``I want to be the birds, I want to be the trees.'' Both are still with her.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Catriona 
Posted: 01-Aug-2003, 04:35 PM
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Jason
This is an ongoing scandal in Ireland....

It has had much publicity via the BBC and the newspapers for about 10 years here in the UK and Ireland...

There has also been a scandal about an order of nuns who abused children in care homes in Scotland. This was an order with lots of Irish nuns, who seem to have taken lessons from the Magdalene Sisters... Such a sad thing
Here's the site started by one of the victims... http://www.gentletouchsweb.com/Stories/Maria.html

And, before anyone accuses me of being anti-Catholic.... I was brought up in a Catholic household and educated (privately) at Catholic schools cool.gif
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barddas 
Posted: 01-Aug-2003, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (Catriona @ Aug 1 2003, 11:35 PM)
Jason
This is an ongoing scandal in Ireland....

It has had much publicity via the BBC and the newspapers for about 10 years here in the UK and Ireland...

There has also been a scandal about an order of nuns who abused children in care homes in Scotland. This was an order with lots of Irish nuns, who seem to have taken lessons from the Magdalene Sisters...  Such a sad thing
Here's the site started by one of the victims...  http://www.gentletouchsweb.com/Stories/Maria.html

And, before anyone accuses me of being anti-Catholic....  I was brought up in a Catholic household and educated (privately) at Catholic schools  cool.gif

wow....That is just....I'm speechless. It's just horrible. I know that childeren are abused... but.... for long period of time. It just amazes me that somebody didn't find out or do something.....It is mind boggling to me... Just plain sad to hear about something lke that. And the pain that these women have to endure even today.... appauling....


Catriona, I would have NEVER accused you of being anti- Catholic. Corruption is everywhere.... I know that just because something bad happend in this particular sect, it doesn't make the entire "Thing" bad.
We here in the states are having a problem with Catholic priest, not behaving with young boys... Now years later these sexually abused boys are coming forward... it is almost a weekly topic on the news.... Sad as well

Thanks for the link... very interesting, and sad .... sad.gif

This post has been edited by barddas on 01-Aug-2003, 05:28 PM
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Catriona 
Posted: 02-Aug-2003, 03:59 PM
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And all of it in the name of religion sad.gif unsure.gif

That film about the Magdelen Laundries is very powerful.... It brings tears to your eyes.

The Catholic church in Ireland has a lot to answer for...... as does the church in Scotland. The scandal of the care homes is a dark stain on the church.
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barddas 
Posted: 03-Aug-2003, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (Catriona @ Aug 2 2003, 10:59 PM)
And all of it in the name of religion sad.gif unsure.gif

That film about the Magdelen Laundries is very powerful.... It brings tears to your eyes.

The Catholic church in Ireland has a lot to answer for...... as does the church in Scotland. The scandal of the care homes is a dark stain on the church.

As we know... most conflicts through out history have been over religion sad.gif
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Posted: 03-Aug-2003, 03:45 PM
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We had a big scandal here in the Boston area with Priest's abusing young boys and girls. It has gone on for decades and decades.

One priest tooks these kids on a summer camping trip, abused them, then when driving home drunk he killed one of them. He gave the eulogy at the kids funeral.

Needless to say he is being brought up on charges and they just dumped Cardinal Bernard Law of Boston - who kept moving these abusing priests from parish to parish.

It's a shame because the Catholic Church does so much good; but it is no excuse for what went on here in Boston.

Now a days you can not trust anyone. We are very careful who our children spend time with. I can not imagine someone hurting them. But God help them if they did because I surely would run them over when they weren't looking! I think they should take all of these child abusers and be done with them. What right do they have to be in a community if they have shown disrespect for life itself.

Nothing boils my blood more than people hurting children!


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  Posted: 08-Aug-2003, 03:38 PM
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Here is an article from today's Chicago Sun-Times:

QUOTE
Filmmaker hits back at charge of anti-Catholicism

August 8, 2003

BY CATHLEEN FALSANI Religion Reporter

A film about asylums for "fallen women" run by Roman Catholic nuns in 1960s Ireland is drawing fire from the Vatican and American church leaders who say it's anti-Catholic.

The director of "The Magdalene Sisters," which opens in Chicago Aug. 15, says his film is no more anti-Catholic than people who criticize the Bush administration are anti-American.

"The perpetrators of these crimes are the ones who jump up at this instantly with, 'Oh, it's anti-Catholic,' thus, in their idiocy, assuming that every Catholic on Earth would say, 'Right then, we're going to condemn it, too,' " Scottish director Peter Mullan said during a recent stop in Chicago to promote his film.

"Anybody who's ever been near the Catholic faith would watch this film and know that this is a film about Catholics," Mullan said. The stark, dramatic film is set outside Dublin in a "Magdalene laundry," a kind of asylum run by the Roman Catholic church in Ireland where young women--who were accused of "offenses" such as having a child out of wedlock, engaging in premarital sex, being raped or even just being pretty--were sent to "atone for their sins."

The Magdalene asylums, named after the biblical character Mary Magdalene--a reformed prostitute and follower of Jesus Christ--are not fiction. The first asylum was opened in Ireland in the 1880s and the last was shuttered in 1996. Women were often sent by their families, on the advice of their priests, to the Magdalenes. They worked for no pay in sweatshop conditions in industrial laundries run by nuns. The women, who often had their hair shorn and their given names replaced by "saint names," usually stayed imprisoned for the rest of their lives.

Last week, the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights based in Washington, D.C., labeled Mullan's film as "anti-Catholic propaganda." And a review of the film by the Office for Film and Broadcasting of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said the film was "an oversimplified, worst-case scenario."

"An audience has a right to wonder whether the film is attempting to throw light on a painful, little-known situation or merely genuflecting at the altar of sensationalism while exploiting others' suffering," the bishops' review said.

Mullan refused studio executives' pleas to affix the "based on true events" label to his film. "If anybody thinks I'm imaginative enough to think this all up, then Jesus, they really need to examine their - - - - - - - brains. All the incidents are true," he said.

While all of the events in the film are factual, he said, told to him by women who survived the asylums, the characters themselves are composites.

Raised Roman Catholic in his native Scotland, Mullan said he was compelled to make "The Magdalene Sisters" after seeing a documentary about the Magdalene laundries, "Sex in a Cold Climate."

The idea that women could be basically imprisoned for life because were sexually active, flirted with boys, or even looked alluring reminded him of the works of Franz Kafka and the premise of the film "Minority Report," and should be taken as a warning by everyone, Mullan said.

"I understand now that there are lunatics over here and in the U.K. who call themselves scientists who now claim they can spot a potential psychopath at age 3. . . . That's exactly what they did to Bernadette," a character in the film who ends up in a Magdalene asylum because the neighborhood boys fancy her, he said.

"They decided on her behalf, 'We've seen signs that you're a bit of a flirt, and you've got to go. You're too pretty, and we can't have you leading our young men astray. The double standards are quite shocking, and that remains the case in the Catholic church."

Mullan said he's not worried about critics calling the film anti-Catholic.

"Every single country where they've tried that, where they've banged that particular drum, have been Catholic countries and it's broken box-office records," he said.

An estimated one quarter of the Catholic population of Ireland, where "The Magdalene Sisters" debuted last fall, has seen the film.


And on the same web page, there was an ad for the play Late Nite Catechism, a comedy that's been going here in Chicago for about 10 years.

This post has been edited by MDF3530 on 08-Aug-2003, 03:44 PM


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Posted: 08-Aug-2003, 07:27 PM
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This is a very sad story, these girls will have to deal with what they went thru while in this so called home for girls the rest of their lives. This may have been done in the name of religion, but it is not what christianity is about.

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tartangal 
Posted: 09-Aug-2003, 06:17 AM
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Maggie,
I totally agree with you.Anyone who believes themselves to be Christian would not carry out these acts or indeed condone them.These were real abuses of power that was held and of the position in the community that was given to them.


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As a well-spent day brings happy sleep, so life well used brings happy death.
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barddas 
Posted: 11-Aug-2003, 08:14 AM
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I think that the Vatican and the Church in general, are so against this film, and saying it is ANTI- Catholic is because they got caught. (i'm not just pointing fingers at that religious sect. Corruption is everywhere sadly.)
But, because this particular event had been going on since the 1800's makes it even worse. And some having knowledge about the goings on...always brings the question why wasn't it stopped sooner? Fear, threats, physical and mental harm..that's why. It's the same with all the abuse cases here in the states with priest. Again, it was brought up, and then covered up. The priest moved to another parish... horrible.

Now, I don't know where I am going with this ... sorry.....
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maggiemahone1 
Posted: 11-Aug-2003, 05:33 PM
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barrdas, I'm glad that you posted this. This is so sad when you hear goings on such as this, no matter where it happens. I know it's not only in the Catholic Church. I think a lot of this boils down to power just as tartangal stated in her post. There is alot of power hungry crazies in this world. It's even worst when you want to hurt an innocent child. This boils my blood. As far as the priest that was found out about, in my opinion they should be treated as sex offenders and kicked out of the church and jailed. In this day and age it seems they are just given a slap on the wrist and turned loose.

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RavenWing 
Posted: 12-Aug-2003, 07:12 AM
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I don't want to turn this thread into a sex abuse scandal discussion, but I do have something to add. There was a settlement not to long ago in Louisville and the Church was made to pay millions of dollars. The problem is, the recipients of the settlement are now in court fightung over who gets what money. So much for the "united front"

This all disgusts me.


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A Mom in Hoboken USA
Posted: 23-Aug-2003, 12:32 PM
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As the mom of 2-year old twins and having just seen the Magdalen Sisters it makes me truly sad at the world in which my children will live. In the United States we have had a huge problem with the Catholic churches priests and now I worry about the nuns. Where is the compassion they so speak of. The movie was excellent. I am sure that the injustices that they did should be punnished. Just like Maggiemahone1 says: "As far as the priest that was found out about, in my opinion they should be treated as sex offenders and kicked out of the church and jailed."

               
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Roisin-Teagan 
Posted: 23-Aug-2003, 08:15 PM
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I am very saddened by all this. But we need to remember that information is power! The more the truth is exposed then more power is given to the victims. The problem is so many who claim to 'preach the truth' are the ones who are trying to keep the truth from being exposed. About four or five years ago I had a chance to view the documentaries covering the orphange institutions and the "Magdalene Landries" in Ireland on America's PBS. So many children were taken from their country and exiled, and many women and children held in a virtual slavery. As for the priest and officials critizing the film "fallen women". Shame on them. The ones calling this film 'anti-Catholic' are the ones who are "anti-Truth".

I agree these terrible crimes were done in name of religion and so called righteousness. But true Christianity is expressed through the acts of Jesus Christ. He showed love and respect to the so called "raggamuffins" of society. And he was heavily critized by the religious statis-quo-elite for eating with and touching the "unclean", "prostitutes", "tax-collectors" (crooks), and the worst of society. But Jesus was God's love expressed through human fraility. I believe Jesus' favorite people are the children...They asked Jesus who was the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And he (Jesus) called a child to Himself and set him before them, "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it is better for him that a heavy millstone be hung around his neck, and that he be drowned in the depth of the sea," said Jesus Christ (Matt.18:1-6, New American Standard Bible). smile.gif


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Roisin-Teagan

"There, in that hand, on that shoulder under that chin---all of its lightness delicately balanced and its strings skillfully bowed---it becomes a voice."---Rich Mullins

"At 18, if you have oversized aspirations, the whole world sees you as a dreamer. At 40, you get the reputation for being a visionary." ---Rich Mullins

"God gives the gifts where He finds the vessel empty enough to receive them."---C.S. Lewis

Éire go Brách!
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