Euro's Vs Americans?, Things I don't understand

thank you all very much, you make things a bit clearer..

I can understand you very well Elspeth, but I do share alot of the feelings of Barddas. Not all here know me very well so I think I will do some explaining on my side.

I come from a very various background. My mothers family has been a maritime family for at least 500 years (that we know about!).. it might have been more. I carry most of Europe, some of Asia and even Northern Africa in my veins. I mean the people that weren't German I know about personally came from France, Italy and Russia. And there is many more, like Turks, Chinese, Japonese (as it was called in that time), Irish (somewhen last century if I remember right), English, various Nordic and even someone from Algeria..
I know what it means to have a mixed background, and I know what it is to feel bonds to a country. I feel strongly connected to France, my Ggrandma was french (from Britanny, Morbihan) and I loved her dearly. She taught me childrens songs, made games up with me or we just sat in the sun, holding hands and she told me stories.
But (and there we come to you Barddas), I wouldn't call myself Franco-German, simply because I am not. I was born in Germany, grew up in Germany and even if I grew up speaking French very well, knowing about French ways (goodness, her baguette were just soooo genially good!) and maybe I'm still doing some things french (as in keeping up traditions )...
I mean, you are Americans, as much as I am German.. that it is all a bit closer together here doesn't change much, but maybe I should call myself European. Having background is wonderful, keeping traditions is great also... but romanticising.. overstating history is not. I mean, I know why it is done (My GGrandma told me the same about her homes, all wonderful and sunshine... but she also didn't have to flee from where she stayed. My fathers family is a completely different story. They had to give up the land were they had stayed for hundreds of years, they fled.. and in their stories the part of Germany where they came from is oversize.. more beautiful, more impressive than it really is).
That is one danger that I fear (and it can be seen in Hollywood films.. how often is history stated as it is? not very often.. and there are ppl (even here!) who take those films for accounts of how it was. or close to how it has been...).

It's not that I want you to give up the fun ppl have detecting heritage or keeping up traditions (maryellen, Haggis is not everyday food here... if it was I would protest.. I can't stand it! ).. i think it's a good thing to do. But I do agree with what barddas said...

Randy: I don't feel attacked.. why should I? I mean if others do it is their right to do so, but also explain to me why. I am not easily feeling attacked or insulted.. (something that makes me mad is the bad way Germans speak in many war films... Not every German speaks like Hitler! I didn't see many warflicks yet in which Germans spoke good german, one was "Battle of Britain"...)
I just seem to have the idea that others here might do.. which I don't understand.

Do you think I like generalisations made about Germans? I definitly don't. I don't mind ppl making jokes about us but we then have the same right.

What you say about Movies and WWII, the German image seems to have the same problems. Not every German speaks as hard as Goebbles did, or others did. A scottish friend of mine said to me that he never believed German could be so softly spoken.
I mean, if you lived in Europe, you should understand us a wee bit better. I doubt that we are jealous. It just makes us a wee bit mad that we are not counted in (which is, I think an old world problem... I think we just don't want to be the "old world"...). I don't mind living standards in America, if they are good or bad.. what I mind is when Americans, and I did experience this in discussions, put themselves above all others. And the current american government (although the one before did it as well) is showing this alot. That is what makes us mad about America. The negative feeling towards America (I think you should part this from Americans, or at least I will) is exactly this attitude.
As I said, I know some Americans and I made these and those experiences. I like American's, I stated that before and I think I will do it again. And I do make a difference between ignorant ones and the ones that are open minded. It is not fair putting all in one pot, I think I never did it before and I think I never will.. I mean you said yourself that you made negative experiences in Europe... which is only natural.. even we are not all the same.

I agree with you on the ignorance, I totally do. But isn't ignorance a state of mind that can be helped? But people have to want knowing too, else they will stay ignorant.

Prejudices are a bad thing, but I think they are there to be cleared up. So, why don't we start on this? I am totally open for it. As I said, you all helped me already and if we keep on clearing things up it will only be for the better.

Randy, I am sorry if I made you feel bad, or anyone else did. I did not want to do so, but yes I admit that in some ways I am very unknowing, but I am willing to learn. As hopefully others are. I mean, I am glad to help opening minds if you all help me opening mine.

*steps down from the soapbox and takes a sip of water*

I am sorry, I didn't mean to be so long (again!) but somehow it just grips me and I write everything down which occupies my mind. I do like this thread quite well so far.. simply because it helps me to understand and talk things off my mind. Hopefully it does the same to you.

Gaun yersel, Mirri, hen

bloody hell, Cat, we seem to do things at the same time noo tae! OMG!

*munches on Mint Humbugs* anyhow... I ken what ye mean... I mean so many things I sometimes lose sight! *grins*

Hey barddas,

I was just clarifying. I know you wouldn't vent at me, 'old fool'

Catriona and Aon Daonna,

I undestand and quite agree with the difference between being descended of a nationality and being a citizen of a country. I would never presume to call myself a Scot or a Welshwoman or an Englishwoman or a German. For one thing it would take too long to say it all And for two, it would just be silly. My ancestors moved away way too long ago.

And I think we should all agree to never take anything that comes out of Hollywood too seriously.

An aside, I have seen a few movies that portray German soldiers as more than charactures, but they are few and far between.

which is a) a shame, these are usually the good ones.
Anybody ever seen No news from(in) the west? It's after the book of a German soldier in the 1st world war it's really worth watching.

I personally want to state that I am an American one of the true ones too. But I also have a lot of Irish in me too plus some other European ancestry. I know that I have said many times that I am Shawnee and I am proud of it too. But this does not stop me from wanting to understand who and what my ancestors were or why they did the thing they did or if any of the traditions that I know today,where they came from.

I love doing my Genealogy and learning from where they all came from trying to understand a little more about myself.

I have always said that even if one of my ancestors gone from my life then I would not be here today writing this Post.

I have met several people in my lifetime most who are good people in my eyes, and I have met some who were total Jerks. But these are personality conflicts. I have also known people who I thought were jerks wind up being rather good and fun people once I really got to know them or that I found out that they had a medical condition stopping them to be their true self. One of these characterists is diabetes, in which I do suffer from. So I can speak from a personal experience on this since I always try to be the best person that I can be but have on occasions been rather a jerk myself. This is not me.

I also believe that a lot of the problems between the pond is the media. In America we hear, over the News, how much the Europeans HATES the Americans. And you probably hear the same thing there about us. I personally do not know of any Americans who hates or even dislikes any European.

Maybe we can stop this media hype and really get to know each other in a positive way.

Wow Richard! Great posting to tell everyone they should be making an effort to get along....thanks!

Having traveled with the military, I have found people to be the same no matter where you go.

Some are a royal pain in the booty and others you feel like you have known your whole life and would not hesitate in inviting them to your home when they come to the States.

I have a group of ladies whom are my clients and have become my dearest friends, the "United Kingdom Lady's Club" , Georgia Chapter..whom are ladies who were born and raised in the UK and they came to the states for one reason or another...they meet once a week and they will tell you how people are the same no matter where you live...some are nice and some are not!
So if anyone has an attitude problem thinking they are any better than anyone else, they need to bring their noses down a notch and join the human race.

Annabelle

mmh I'm not asking that question out of "Media Hype", and I don't think I know anybody in Europe that really HATES Americans/America... and I know alot of them

I think the worst thing you get towards America/n's is total indifference.. but those people usually are (I borrow your wors Richard) jerks.

I mean I did my best explaining the feeling towards America I think... and it definitly isn't hate.

As for the Media, I think anybody of us is very influenced by it. I read alot American News pages, simply because I like keeping up with what is happening in the world.. and some articles I would describe as "Hetze" (It's something similar to a "witchhunt").. I don't say that it is different over here, it is definitly not. But that is as you said: "Media Hype", which doesn't necessarily mirror the feelings of the population.. at least I would say it doesnt always.

But is Not Agreeing the same as Hate?
I think talking of Hate is a wee bit harsh.. maybe it's more of a dislike, if anything. But that still is a reaction, which I think is better than total indifference.

I'll maybe comment more lateron.. GtG now... laters,
Aon

This is a fine example. Mary Ellen has lived in the Midwest for 24 years and has never heard anyone make a blanket statement about people from the East Coast being rude. As a school teacher she would not be likely to run into people who have a lot of contact with people from the east.

I spent time as and OTR driver and the majority of my peers were from the Mid west and I constantly heard comments like this. Yet previously in college where I met people in my world (the Mid West) I did not have that perception at all and consequently dealt with people from the east with a different perspective.

Today I do sales to people all over the world and will hear from the people in my office who are daily in contact with people from the east and they feel that in general they are very abrupt and newbies will always want to ask why people on the east coast are rude.

I think it comes again down to what we know and probably in the end our perceptions of who is what (Rude, arrogant or otherwise is as much a product of our expectations as anything)

If I sell a guitar to a store and I tell them how well the guitar sells for other stores they are much more likely to have a quick turn arround because that is what they expect.

If the people I meet have had a generally bad experience or have bad perceptions of Americans they are more likely to focus on what they consider to be negative. In this case someone like Mary Ellen might be more likely to consider an easterner on their merits and not have a preconcieved opinion. (I hope you don't mind the eample M. E. )

I have been blessed with the ability to generally take people at face value and starting with a clean slate with each new person that I meet and trying to get inside and learn where they are coming from so that I can accept them for who they are. The good side of this is that I have met only 2 people in my life that I instantly disliked (one I gave enough of a chance and eventually decided he was tolerable )
The downside is that I have been blindsided more than once.

To me it is worth the risk as I have learned much and made many good friends from all over the world with all sorts of diverse back grounds. It is one of the many things that makes life exciting for me.

My trepence

Mikel

Hey Ao

What's a mint humbug???

Mikel

Is this the same as All's Quiet on the Western Front?
I have gotten this one out from the library but didn't have time to watch it. If this is the same movie, I know of at least 2 versions, on older (50's?) version and a later (70's?) one. Which one did you see?

The movie we watched recently that impressed me was Hart's War. The commandant of the German POW camp was portrayed very well as a fellow human caught in the same conflict that is war.

Don't you think our history may be romanticized by breech-clouts and vermillion, moccasins and coon-skin caps? What of the image of the American frontiersman as the Natural Man at one with his wilderness. We have our Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett, Lewis and Clark, Jim Bridger, Jeremiah Johnson. Then there are Jesse James, William Butler Hickock and Wyatt Earp.

As a student of North American frontier history I can assure you that the reality of the American frontiersman is much different than the romanticized versions so freely regurgitated to our school children. Even lovable Kit Carson had his dark side (ask any Navajo).

Our history may be brief compared to that of most European nations, but it's spawned it's own special mythology that I wouldn't trade for all the ale in Scotland or whiskey in Ireland.....well, let me think about the whiskey.

The traits I admire in historical highland Scots are the same traits I admire in historical American and Canadian frontiersmen. Fierce independence, courage, boldness of action and a willingness to forge fulfilling lives in unforgiving circumstances. If it's overly romanticized, so be it.

Swanny

It's a boiled mint sweet with a nice taste to it.. I'll try and find a better describtion somewhere... They are quite popular and very tasty. I love mints =)
(my fave's are Everton Mints, which are mints with a very very creamy taste)
(here's a recipe http://www.hwatson.force9.co.uk/cookbook/r...minthumbugs.htm


@ Elspeth*grins* It is , but I know it under it's German name which is the title I said, translated. I can recommend it to you. (The German title is "Im Westen Nichts Neues" which is also the title of the Book by Erich Maria Remarque, a survivor of the first world war. I'm not going to spoil the story for you though;) )

@ Swanny: I never said it wasn't I think that just about happens everywhere.. with just about everything (Although the Nazi-Era and WW2 build a black hole in the minds of Germans).

I know a lot of americans, and I have no reason to hate them.
And I think they have no reason to hate me.
By the way....the stereotypes about the germans are NOT true.
I have to know it, because I am a german.

Sláinte!

Derfel

The book title in English is All Quiet On the Western Front. I remember reading it a long time ago for my History of Western Civ class. Book titles and movie titles very seldom translate well from one language to another.

Well, just trying to help and show I have more then fungus between my ears.

Leo