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Celtic Radio Community > Philosophy & Science > Mayberry?


Posted by: Elspeth 03-Nov-2003, 03:10 PM
OK, perhaps this is a lame question to be placed in philosophy, but I am curious.

Recently I have had crime brought right to my doorstep. In talking to the detective, he said "We don't live in Mayberry". I told him but I want to. He responded everyone wants to, but we don't.

OK, that begs for me the question

- If we all want to live in Mayberry, they why don't we?

For those perhaps unfamiliar with Mayberry, it is the setting of a 60's sitcom where crime was nonexistant, people caring and everyone looked out for one another. It has become an American byword for a social eutopia.

So, back to the question -

If we all want it, why don't we have it?

Is it a function of the majority allowing a few bad apples to dictate?

Or do we really not want it in anything but fantasy?

Can it be achieved?

Thoughts?

Posted by: kidclaymore 03-Nov-2003, 05:38 PM
Hi Elspeth

I work for a Sheriff's office here where I live, so I see people at their very worst. No the world is not Mayberry and for the most part I don't think the world really wants it to be, but maybe some day it will happen, if and when human nature changes.

Posted by: Shadows 03-Nov-2003, 05:49 PM
As I have said before... I work in Loss Prevention for a major department store...what I see makes me sick!!! Parents teaching their kids to steal, teenagers out for kicks just taking , then there are those who make a living stealing!!! Had a gun pulled on me recently, third time in my life, not a good feeling!!!

Mayberry???... will never happen in our lives! To much BS and selfishness in the world... teach your own to respect and then maybe, but not Mayberry!

Posted by: kidclaymore 03-Nov-2003, 05:59 PM
Well said Shadows

Posted by: Shadows 03-Nov-2003, 06:25 PM
Thanks!!! I meant what I said, this world sucks as long as there are those who think it owes them just for being!!!! sad.gif

Posted by: Swanny 03-Nov-2003, 07:00 PM
Elspeth, and all. Even the "bad guys" want to live in Mayberry. Their perception of such a place is that of a "target rich environment" where they might plunder, pillage and worse at will. Unfortunately, that is "their" view of Utopia.

I'm truly sorry that crime was brought to your door step. I truly hate to see anybody victimized, especially those of gentle spirit but I'm afraid that so long as we live on this world that is something we will have to endure.

It is not the adversity you face that defines your character, but rather how you face the adversity.

Swanny

Posted by: Elspeth 03-Nov-2003, 07:08 PM
Thank you so very much for your kind words Swanny, they are greatly appreciated.

Shadows and Kidclaymore, you guys have the unenviable task of dealing with, for lack of a better word, the dregs. However, that is what? Five, ten percent of society as a whole?

So, I go back to the original question.

I guess one of the questions I come back to is what can the rest of us, those who do not live our lives or raise our children in the manner of those you interact with, what can we do to reclaim our society?

Like in that movie clip - I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.

Why do we just wish for it to be better?


Posted by: Shadows 03-Nov-2003, 07:27 PM
Look again! If you think it is only 5 to 10 % you are in need of an awakening!!!

It is more like 25 - 33 % that steal!!!

My store alone has a $1.5 million loss each year to grandma's, grandapa's, brothers, sisters, momma's, daddies, and all those between that feel it won't hurt to take this one thing, the owners have so much! Like hell!!!

Everytime someone steals the cost of the goods you buy goes up by 5%!!! That alone makes me MAD!!! that means that my dollars don't go as far as they did last year!!!

I don't know about you but my salary does not go up by 5% every year, so I am paying more just to live because there are those that think we all owe them to live!!!

There is more dishonesty in the world then you seem to realize...!

And that just covers the honest part of society.. we have yet to touch those that thrive off of criminality!!!

Come into my world for a few weeks... your opinion of those around you will change!

Posted by: Richard Bercot 03-Nov-2003, 07:33 PM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Nov 3 2003, 04:10 PM)
Recently I have had crime brought right to my doorstep. In talking to the detective, he said "We don't live in Mayberry". I told him but I want to. He responded everyone wants to, but we don't.

OK, that begs for me the question

- If we all want to live in Mayberry, they why don't we?


We can live in Mayberry.

The Town I live in is quiet. We have a population here of 98, so it is not the Big City. We don't have neighbors calling the law on neighbors. It is all handled peacefully. All the neighbors knows each other and everyone watches out for all the kids. We don't stick our nose in everyone business. We all take notice if something is wrong. And we have no trouble.

The main thing is that the children are taught to respect their Neighbors. And the Adults respect the kids.

So what is wrong with Mayberry? What are the exact requirements for it?

Mayberry was not just a Town, it was a Community

The thing that is probably missing is just one word, "RESPECT"

Posted by: Swanny 03-Nov-2003, 07:59 PM
QUOTE
The thing that is probably missing is just one word, "RESPECT"


You're on the right track here.

My personal opinion though is that what is truly lacking in our world today is a defined by a word that only seems to be heard in old war movies. That word is honor.

Swanny

Posted by: Richard Bercot 03-Nov-2003, 08:09 PM
QUOTE (Swanny @ Nov 3 2003, 08:59 PM)

That word is honor.


Swanny,

I will agree with that too. Why don't we combine the two words and make three out of them.

Honor and Respect.

Posted by: Elspeth 03-Nov-2003, 08:11 PM
I am raising my children to respect, honor and even obey. (man, they are getting ready to get married! biggrin.gif )

Seriously, we do that and so do most others we know, but certianly not all.

Of course we can only control our own actions, but again, so often people sit back and wish for what they lack. There must be more. Can we all move to your town Richard? laugh.gif

Perhaps it is in the awareness of the need where change can be brought about.

But what are we to do with those in society who do not respect or honor?

So often it seems to come back to a front porch mentality. Another version of Mayberry. But when people had front porches and used them, they knew their neighbors and knew what was going on in the neighborhood. Knew who was in need too.

We use our front porch, but few others do.
Most use their decks hidden away. Everyone living their private lives. Perhaps that is why we have lost our sense of community in most places.

Posted by: kidclaymore 03-Nov-2003, 08:27 PM
The thing is, the people who want to live in peace are in a minority. Sure there's alot of people who want's peace and safety, but those who pray on such people are more numerous. Richard, its nice to live in a small town, But how far is it to the big city next to where you live?. But really it dosn't matter, sooner or later the "bad people" start moving out to the small towns for earier pickings. I hope and pray that this dosn't happen where you live, but I have seen it many times before, It happen to my family and I. The point is unless you move so far out, it will catch up to you no matter what you do. I feel as if scoiety as a whole is breaking down.

Posted by: 3Ravens 03-Nov-2003, 08:58 PM
A word that has been floating through all these posts but doesn't seem to have been highlighted is the key. That word is community. When you know your neighbors, you will care for and about them. You don't prey on people you care for. So often today we don't know the guy next door or across the hall, never mind the guy two doors down or on the next floor. We need to make a deliberate effort to connect. I know it's not the only answer, and it won't work on the sociopaths, but it's a start.

Posted by: oldraven 03-Nov-2003, 09:06 PM
QUOTE (3Ravens @ Nov 3 2003, 09:58 PM)
When you know your neighbors, you will care for and about them.

You forgot one thing, 3Ravens. When you know, and like them. tongue.gif

Posted by: 3Ravens 03-Nov-2003, 09:11 PM
True oldraven, but I even check on the neighborhood curmudgeon if I haven't seen him out puttering in the yard for a couple days, whether he likes it or not!

Posted by: Richard Bercot 03-Nov-2003, 09:22 PM
QUOTE (kidclaymore @ Nov 3 2003, 09:27 PM)
The thing is, the people who want to live in peace are in a minority. Sure there's alot of people who want's peace and safety, but those who pray on such people are more numerous. Richard, its nice to live in a small town, But how far is it to the big city next to where you live?. But really it dosn't matter, sooner or later the "bad people" start moving out to the small towns for earier pickings. I hope and pray that this dosn't happen where you live, but I have seen it many times before, It happen to my family and I. The point is unless you move so far out, it will catch up to you no matter what you do. I feel as if scoiety as a whole is breaking down.

Yes we have had some bad people come through our Town. But so did Mayberry.

Yes we live near Large Cities. 9 miles to the West, 18 miles to the Northeast, 15 miles to the Southwest and 17 miles to the Southeast. And anyone living in the country would say that it was a hop, skip and a jump to a City. So we are not too far out from anywhere.

Yes we have had people move into our Town who were not compatable to the Community. Needless to say, they don't stay very long. In the 27 years I have lived here, I can think of only twice, where the non compatable people lived here and they only stayed for a period of no longer than 6 months. If you do something wrong to your neighbor, your are told about it.

And before anyone asks we are not from one family. We are of multiple families that have lived here a long time. And once you have become a part of the Community, nobody wants to leave.

The one thing we do not have here, that I am Thankful for, is the negativity that I see in other place. And I am going to keep it that way.

Posted by: sheronjessie 03-Nov-2003, 09:24 PM
hi, this is tennesseegirl
I was just reading some of the comments on the subject of Mayberry. I know all of you are looking at this from a blue collar workers point of view, but did you ever wonder why people are out there commiting these crimes in the first place.
I never have commited any of these crimes but the way the world is now it's no wonder that people are so despert to rob, and steal. We are not paid enough wages to take care of our families, we cann't afford healthcare for them either. The people who are out there stealing food, clothing, and other things are trying to cope with the fact that they are having to live on the streets, or live in there cars if they are fortunate to own one. We here in the United States send money to other countries to help there starving children and families, also to take care of there medical needs and let our own families and children starve here. We back these people into a corner and give them no chose but to rob, steal, and even hurt others out of desperation. I hate to hear when someone ends up being hurt, or crime as found it's way to them, but we have to want to change things in our own yards before we can expect to have the Mayberry we all want so much.

Posted by: marius 03-Nov-2003, 09:41 PM
i don't know. sometimes i think all the world needs is a few people who have community, respect and honour pretty constantly on their minds--perhaps like the ppl who here are outraged at the lack of them--who go off to a deserted island paradise and start the whole thing over again, and this time teach their descendants to do things right. i mean, if our goal were to build community, to love and respect each other, rather than just acquiring more stuff, how wrong could we go?
but then i look at myself (i can only really speak for myself), and i find that i can't keep up those ideals for very long on my own. at my centre i am not an "others-seeking" person--really i just want what's in it for me. I'm by definition selfish. and i can't assume this, but i get the feeling that most people are as well.
isn't that why previous attempts to build utopia haven't gone that well?
Pitcairn's Island, for example (Mutiny on the Bounty). granted, the originators were mutineers, but they were devoted to themselves and their island community, until there was a shortage of womenfolk and an introduction of alcohol.
Or the Communist attempts. Communism (in definition) is entirely community minded--"from each according to his ability to each according to his need" (Marx). I'm generalizing, but the main reason the different communist revolutions became communist regimes--and usually oppressive ones--is because, however strong their resolve, they ignored the basic self-seeking nature of humanity: given time and difficulty, it becomes all about me. In "Enemy at the Gates" the Political Officer says that "there will always be something to envy...[ppl] rich in talents, poor in talents, rich in love, poor in love..."
i don't think humanity can retain its nature and exist in a community-minded Mayberry setting for very long w/o destroying it. remember the first matrix? "it was a perfect world which your primitive minds kept trying to wake up from."
but i'm young. perhaps i have more to learn?

Posted by: sheronjessie 03-Nov-2003, 10:11 PM
marius I don't know how old you are but the fact that you are using movies to illistrate your point says a lot about you. I think you need a little more reallity shows in your life. Life is't anything like the movies we see and makes it hard to know how people really feel. We need to take a look at the way we treat others, and live our lives accordingly.

Posted by: Elspeth 03-Nov-2003, 10:33 PM
QUOTE (sheronjessie @ Nov 3 2003, 10:24 PM)
hi, this is tennesseegirl
I was just reading some of the comments on the subject of Mayberry. I know all of you are looking at this from a blue collar workers point of view, but did you ever wonder why people are out there commiting these crimes in the first place.
I never have commited any of these crimes but the way the world is now it's no wonder that people are so despert to rob, and steal. We are not paid enough wages to take care of our families, we cann't afford healthcare for them either. The people who are out there stealing food, clothing, and other things are trying to cope with the fact that they are having to live on the streets, or live in there cars if they are fortunate to own one. We here in the United States send money to other countries to help there starving children and families, also to take care of there medical needs and let our own families and children starve here. We back these people into a corner and give them no chose but to rob, steal, and even hurt others out of desperation. I hate to hear when someone ends up being hurt, or crime as found it's way to them, but we have to want to change things in our own yards before we can expect to have the Mayberry we all want so much.

What you say is true for some and is a place where changes can be made. If all have enough to survive then, none will have to steal. There is certianly work there for us to do.

But, there are those as well who do have enough, but just want more. Or they are filled with a rage they cannot name and want to hurt, or they are just plain bored and looking for 'kicks'. These are the crimes that are hard to know how to counter.

3Ravens, I agree wholheartedly with you, that the answer seems to lie in community. I think that is why I chose Mayberry for the analogy in the first place. But, we have community here. The home that was burgurlized and fired was watched over by many. I think that is why recent events have hit me so hard. Ugliness came into our community and defiled it. And it isn't good enough to me to shrug shoulders and say, 'it happens'. There has to be more. I just cannot accept this as the norm.

Posted by: Keltic 03-Nov-2003, 10:42 PM
QUOTE (sheronjessie @ Nov 3 2003, 11:24 PM)
hi, this is tennesseegirl
I was just reading some of the comments on the subject of Mayberry. I know all of you are looking at this from a blue collar workers point of view, but did you ever wonder why people are out there commiting these crimes in the first place.
I never have commited any of these crimes but the way the world is now it's no wonder that people are so despert to rob, and steal. We are not paid enough wages to take care of our families, we cann't afford healthcare for them either. The people who are out there stealing food, clothing, and other things are trying to cope with the fact that they are having to live on the streets, or live in there cars if they are fortunate to own one. We here in the United States send money to other countries to help there starving children and families, also to take care of there medical needs and let our own families and children starve here. We back these people into a corner and give them no chose but to rob, steal, and even hurt others out of desperation. I hate to hear when someone ends up being hurt, or crime as found it's way to them, but we have to want to change things in our own yards before we can expect to have the Mayberry we all want so much.

I have to take exception to your justification in why these crimes are being committed. I should not have to accept the fact that someone broke into my home and stole the television set that I was still paying off. Don't expect me to pat him on the back and tell him that I understand. I have worked for everything that I have and nobody has the right to just walk right up and take it. The choice to commit a crime is just that... a choice!!! It is about time that people are held responsible for their actions and we stop making excuses for them.

Posted by: marius 03-Nov-2003, 11:02 PM
QUOTE
marius I don't know how old you are but the fact that you are using movies to illistrate your point says a lot about you. I think you need a little more reallity shows in your life. Life is't anything like the movies we see and makes it hard to know how people really feel. We need to take a look at the way we treat others, and live our lives accordingly.


cheers sheronjessie--i didn't realize i was doing that--movies come easier to mind i guess. sorry bout that. ohmy.gif

Posted by: McHaggis 03-Nov-2003, 11:44 PM
I've, too, liven by choice in a lot of small "Mayberry-like" towns for the last 20 or so years. There's sure a lot more drunks than Otis in them, Sherrif Andy was a political hack and usually the high school bully likely as not, and there was a lot of domestic violence, a lot of vandalism and out and out thievery, even the occasional murder and weird stuff you don't even wanna know about....but there's a lot of good folks, too. Small towns are just like big urban towns but with less population.

As I said in an earlier post, what ya gotta do is reward proper and decent behavior as you yourself define it and watch your back against the bad guys.

Target-rich environment was a good way to describe how the bad guys see the rurals, that's for sure. Even Aunt Bea probably had some stuff in her closet she wasn't really too proud of.

Still and all, I like small towns (the smallest I lived in had less than 800 people in it...when everybody was home! And there were good people and bad people!)

Sorry, Mayberry is just a myth. Probably always was and always will be. But don't let that stop you from going out to the town square on a summer night to have a soda and buy the kids an ice cream and listen to the brass band over at the gazebo. It exists....I've been there. And didn't even have to lock my car or roll up the windows......just lucky I guess.

RON

Posted by: Richard Bercot 04-Nov-2003, 12:34 AM
Locked Doors? Who does that?

Posted by: Swanny 04-Nov-2003, 01:20 AM
QUOTE
the way the world is now it's no wonder that people are so despert to rob, and steal. We are not paid enough wages to take care of our families, we cann't afford healthcare for them either. The people who are out there stealing food, clothing, and other things are trying to cope with the fact that they are having to live on the streets, or live in there cars if they are fortunate to own one.


With all due respect, Tennesseegirl, if that were true all we'd have to do is throw more money at the problem and it would go away. The fact of the matter is that for every poor person who shoplifts there are many more who don't, for every poor person who commits a robbery, rape, assault or murder there are hundreds who don't.

Honesty is not just a blue-collar concept and dishonesty is not confined to the "poor downtrodden souls". I have known very wealthy people to commit heinous crimes and I know desparately poor who would never dream of taking something they hadn't earned, not even welfare payments nor commodity foodstuffs.

I don't want to come across too harshly here, but I am offended by your statement
QUOTE
"I know all of you are looking at this from a blue collar workers point of view."
. Please don't make assumptions about my perspective. You don't know me nearly well enough to know where I'm coming from and though it's only a guess, I'd guess that you don't honestly know the backgrounds of others posting in this thread either.

I haven't always enjoyed the comforts I am blessed with today. I've lived on streets and in cars and under bridges and I stayed stone cold sober and never stole a dime nor hurt a living person the entire time. My mother raised three children on a 1960s secretaries salary in a backwards little cow-town long before AFDC, foodstamps or medicaid existed and she nonetheless set the example to teach each of us to live honest, honorable lives, to live within our means and to share what little we had with others. Yes ma'am, I DO claim offense.

Honor, respect and community aren't restricted to the wealthy and they are not prohibited to the poor.

Swanny

Posted by: andylucy 04-Nov-2003, 01:42 AM
QUOTE (Swanny @ Nov 4 2003, 01:20 AM)



I haven't always enjoyed the comforts I am blessed with today.  I've lived on streets and in cars and under bridges and I stayed stone cold sober and never stole a dime nor hurt a living person the entire time.  My mother raised three children on a 1960s secretaries salary in a backwards little cow-town long before AFDC, foodstamps or medicaid existed and she nonetheless set the example to teach each of us to live honest, honorable lives, to live within our means and to share what little we had with others. 



Huzzah, Swanny!

I can't always claim to have remained sober, but the binges were few and far between rolleyes.gif .

My father died when I was 9 years old, and my mother worked two jobs to make sure my brother and I had the necessities. She taught us to stand proud and to be honorable men. Yes, we were poor as proverbial church-mice, but we never even thought about stealing. If you wanted something, you got a bloody job shovelling $@&# until you earned the money to get it. I went to college, and never took out a student loan. I busted my hump, got scholarships and worked 40+ hours a week in a factory to do it.

I am sorry, but there is no excuse for being a dishonest human being. Honor is what seperates mankind from the lower life forms. Honor, and the ability to appreciate a good single malt Scotch or draught Guinness. wink.gif beer_mug.gif

Just my tuppence.

Andy

Posted by: Elspeth 04-Nov-2003, 08:06 AM
All true, and yet.....

No, throwing money at the problem won't make it go away. And it is never right to steal.

But there are those who work hard and still can't make ends meet. Perhaps that is a place where creativity can be corralled. Gov't can't figure out a solution. Maybe we 'Mayberry wannabes' can come up with some better ideas.

Funny how we got into the groove of stealing....

I'm quoting Swanny now, "The fact of the matter is that for every poor person who shoplifts there are many more who don't, for every poor person who commits a robbery, rape, assault or murder there are hundreds who don't."

That is my point. The vast majority of us don't live like this. Why is it that it seems we are being controlled by those who do?

There is a quote I love.
"Pine woods are just are real as pigsties - and a darn sight pleasanter to be in"
- L M Montgomery


Everything beautiful and true is just as real as that which is ugly and evil. And good is stronger. The problem seems to be we are allowing the good to lie dormant while the evil runs rampant. I think apathy and laziness has gotten us where we are more that anything else.

Thoughts?

Posted by: McHaggis 04-Nov-2003, 11:59 AM
Elspeth and I agree, again. I think it is mandatory to acknowledge behavior which benefits society. That old saw about for evil to win all that has to happen is for good people to do nothing. Apathy has many forms, one of which is taking good stuff for granted.

It always feels good to thank somebody for something nice they did for you: feels good to them, feels good to you. In your llife you can think of many examples, I am sure.

RON

Posted by: Richard Bercot 04-Nov-2003, 12:12 PM
In my little corner of "Mayberry". If someone is in need or is ill. We just pitch in and help that Person/Family out anyway we can. Sometimes it is just mowing their yard for them if they are unable to, help work on the House, plus countless number of small thing we do.

I believe it was Elspeth, who mentioned about the Front Porch attitude. Just about all of us has a Front porch in wich we sit and the neighbors who are out for their evening walks usually stop by just to chat. It makes it kind of nice.

So if people think that I am living in a Fairy Land, then so be it. And when the next Deputy swings through the town. I will just remember of this Fairly Land that I live in and just wave and smile.

Posted by: RavenWing 04-Nov-2003, 12:17 PM
I would rather not live in Mayberry. That is not my idea of a utopian society.

Posted by: Richard Bercot 04-Nov-2003, 12:24 PM
QUOTE (RavenWing @ Nov 4 2003, 01:17 PM)
I would rather not live in Mayberry. That is not my idea of a utopian society.

Ravenwing,

Then is your idea of a Utopian Society? It make me wonder about people who doesn't want a quiet and peaceful life.

Posted by: RavenWing 04-Nov-2003, 12:26 PM
I would like a peaceful life, but not in a Mayberry type setting. I equate Mayberry with the closed-minded attitude my grandparents have about those who are different.

Posted by: Richard Bercot 04-Nov-2003, 12:31 PM
If being Closed minded the Requirement for being "Mayberry" then I would have to admit that we are not.

Everyone here is different in his or her own ways, I do not now if any of the even go to the same Church. We don't care. Just as long as you don't hurt you neighbors. Then we do frown upon that.

Posted by: barddas 04-Nov-2003, 01:23 PM
QUOTE (Richard Bercot @ Nov 4 2003, 02:12 PM)
In my little corner of "Mayberry". If someone is in need or is ill. We just pitch in and help that Person/Family out anyway we can. Sometimes it is just mowing their yard for them if they are unable to, help work on the House, plus countless number of small thing we do.

I believe it was Elspeth, who mentioned about the Front Porch attitude. Just about all of us has a Front porch in wich we sit and the neighbors who are out for their evening walks usually stop by just to chat. It makes it kind of nice.

So if people think that I am living in a Fairy Land, then so be it. And when the next Deputy swings through the town. I will just remember of this Fairly Land that I live in and just wave and smile.

Richard you are one of the few that get to live the dream.
I live in a fairly large city, about 15 minutes from downtown. My street is nice, the neighbors are as well. It's nice to see people waving to each other. I hadn't seen it such a long time. Aside from driving out to my Gparents farm and everyone waves. No matter what they are doing.
But it is a large city mentality for the most part. Almost everyone is in a hurry to get somewhere faster, people are just rude, and the police don't really care unless someone gets murdered. If your car is broken into they pretty much say oh well..... and that is it.

But it is my city. It is where I live and play.... And I still have hope that some things will be corrected. As my generation starts having kids and becomes more involved with everyday political things... Cincinnati is a very conservative city. I hate that!!!! Mark Twain said that when the end of the world comes he wants to be in Cincinnati, because they are 20 yrs behind the times. And I hate to say that he was right, and it still is.
Don't get me wrong, it has it's good points too! ( Iknow we tend to focus on the negative) There are those that are trying..and I intend on voting for them today after work.

sorry about my rant

one day I'll have my farm in Tennessee....where it is slow paced and peaceful all the time... wink.gif

Posted by: Richard Bercot 04-Nov-2003, 01:39 PM
I was just discussing this subject to a Neighbor who was walking by. She said she agreed with me about this being a "Mayberry" town. Once someone moves in, and that is few and far between, they never leave. The only time a House come available, is when the person living there has passed on. A few new homes pop up here and there but not many. I have seen the population climb from 56 to present 98.

And yes Barddas, I do count myself as one of the lucky ones.

Posted by: barddas 04-Nov-2003, 01:43 PM
QUOTE (Richard Bercot @ Nov 4 2003, 03:39 PM)


And yes Barddas, I do count myself as one of the lucky ones.

Good m'friend.

In a way it's a shame we are all so spread out over the globe.... It would be nice to have a highlander cookout wouldn't it.....

Cheers

Posted by: barddas 04-Nov-2003, 01:48 PM
QUOTE (RavenWing @ Nov 4 2003, 02:17 PM)
I would rather not live in Mayberry. That is not my idea of a utopian society.

Just send me off to Waltons mountain. Not perfect, but close.... wink.gif thumbs_up.gif

sorry , I just had to talk about Waltons mountain again.... LOL!!!!!! laugh.gif tongue.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: 3Ravens 04-Nov-2003, 01:48 PM
Yeah, a cookout, or a weekend, or something. I'd love to see everybody face to face!

Posted by: RavenWing 04-Nov-2003, 02:40 PM
That would be interesting

Posted by: maryellen 04-Nov-2003, 03:33 PM
Richard makes a good point. His town is 98 people. I live in one of 17,000 and we still don't have all that much crime. The news is always good things the community is doing for others or fundraisers etc. I think that once you get to a certain number of people per area, the idiots increase dramatically and we have to lose our utopia. Why do we have them and how do we change them may be the question.

Posted by: barddas 04-Nov-2003, 04:02 PM
QUOTE (RavenWing @ Nov 4 2003, 04:40 PM)
That would be interesting

to say the least m'dear wink.gif



Posted by: oldraven 04-Nov-2003, 04:12 PM
That reminds me of the town I grew up near. There have only been 2 murder cases in 12 or so years.

This last one was a 24hr convenience store robbery, and the one 12 years before that was a man killing a fellow who, along with his brothers, tortured the guy for years, and eventually killed his dog. So he went nuts and took the guy out.



I'd say that's a pretty good record for a fairly large University town.

Posted by: Elspeth 04-Nov-2003, 04:31 PM
QUOTE (barddas @ Nov 4 2003, 02:23 PM)
Mark Twain said that when the end of the world comes he wants to be in Cincinnati, because they are 20 yrs behind the times.

Oh, that is so funny! biggrin.gif Gotta love Twain.

And I want Waltons Mountain too! When I was a new mother I found myself so often thinking.... now, what would Olivia or Grandpa Walton do. Corny, sure, but it worked for me! smile.gif

I like the cookout idea. Who's offering their backyard?

And I wonder what the size is where it becomes 'big city'? We are a city of about 55,000 adjacent to a city of 175,000, and yet we still have, if not a small town feel, a suburban one where crime is not prevelant.

I keep coming back to a study we learned of in college where rats were placed in a cage. When there were only a few, they lived peaceably. But when one too many was shoved in there, they began to turn on each other violently -maiming and even killing one another. That is how I think of cities. Just too many people too close. Then again, I want to live on Walton's Mountain or the equilivant in PA so I'm prejudiced.

Posted by: oldraven 04-Nov-2003, 04:38 PM
I've got a back yard. biggrin.gif

I can even make a bonfire to fight the -22* (-7.6*F) temperatures we're getting tonight.

Posted by: Keltic 04-Nov-2003, 04:47 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ Nov 4 2003, 06:38 PM)
I've got a back yard. biggrin.gif

I can even make a bonfire to fight the -22* (-7.6*F) temperatures we're getting tonight.

I guess that I shouldn't complain that we are going down to 0 tonight (32F)

Posted by: Swanny 04-Nov-2003, 05:06 PM
I've got a BIG back yard. Big front yard too. And a 48 inch diameter steel fire-ring we can cook over or dance around. Nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away and I don't care if she feels disturbed or not. The next closest is 1/2 and I'll invite them to the party. If we do it summer then it never gets dark. If we do it this time of year we can enjoy brilliant displays of the northern lights (sky cover allowing). If we do it in mid-winter all can become members of the "forty-below club". (that's -40 on either scale, the convergence point).

I also have a huge covered porch that makes pretty good sleeping accommodations for guests, and if we need more I have a tipi, a large wall tent (with a nice cozy wood stove) and some other canvas we can put up.

Heck, if you're gonna travel to a party you might as well travel to Alaska. It's probably closer for our UK guests via the polar route.

Dogs are welcome. Cats?? That's up to the dogs I s'pose.

Swanny

Posted by: Shadows 04-Nov-2003, 06:39 PM
QUOTE (sheronjessie @ Nov 3 2003, 10:24 PM)
hi, this is tennesseegirl
I was just reading some of the comments on the subject of Mayberry. I know all of you are looking at this from a blue collar workers point of view, but did you ever wonder why people are out there commiting these crimes in the first place.
I never have commited any of these crimes but the way the world is now it's no wonder that people are so despert to rob, and steal. We are not paid enough wages to take care of our families, we cann't afford healthcare for them either. The people who are out there stealing food, clothing, and other things are trying to cope with the fact that they are having to live on the streets, or live in there cars if they are fortunate to own one. ...

One of my most recent stops was a woman pushinging her child in a $100 stroller, she was wearing designer clothing, and many diamonds!!! Her lawyer showed up befor the police!!! Her car was a Mercades, it was towed away, and her 2 kids were taken from her on the spot by the cops... don't sound blue collar to me!

It turned out her husband owned a large local business.

Posted by: myriad 04-Nov-2003, 07:49 PM
First of all I would like to say I am all for Alaska Swanny, especially if you have a tipi. Love those things.
Anyway, I am a social worker, we discuss these kinds of things all the time. Unfortunately, discussing gets us nowhere when we don't go out and do something. We will never have Mayberry, because Mayberry never existed. For example, here are a list of social issues... I want someone to try to guess the year and city that these occurred in. I will give the answer in a couple of days but I hope to get some responses first.

High Divorce Rates Kids with guns
Gangs Horrible Economy
Drug & Alcohol problems Assassinations
Bombing Political Terrorists

However we can have better. We can chose to do things for our neighborhoods to help. All one person can do is a little but I read a quote on a professors coffee cup that made me laugh and made me think "If we all work together we can totally disrupt the system." In the United States many people have become pacifists... "there's nothing I can do about it so why try." What do you want to do about it Elspeth... surely you have an idea. Find what you believe is one problem in your neighborhood that you feel passionate about and can personally become involved in solving, and do so. If you have children, teach them to become involved. If the world over we would stop being more concerned with ourselves alone and started looking out for each other and working together we might make a difference. We will not have Mayberry, but we will have some control and will start feeling less like victims.

Posted by: oldraven 04-Nov-2003, 09:36 PM
QUOTE (Keltic @ Nov 4 2003, 03:47 PM)
QUOTE (oldraven @ Nov 4 2003, 06:38 PM)
I've got a back yard. biggrin.gif

I can even make a bonfire to fight the -22* (-7.6*F) temperatures we're getting tonight.

I guess that I shouldn't complain that we are going down to 0 tonight (32F)

No. No you shouldn't.










wink.gif

Posted by: Annabelle 05-Nov-2003, 12:19 AM
Elspeth there is a little subdivision developed by the Disney Corp called Celebration. It is right off of Hwy 192...It looks picture perfect..the houses look similar but each a little different in Victorian styling...you pay a fee each year and everyone gets their yard cut on the ssame day so everyone's yard looks the same...the grass is the same level in the whole neighborhood..
although it looks perfect, town square, community playground everything, there is no way the rest of the world is going to go away...
those that live there live with the same dangers that are in our world today...it's nice to wish for but unrealistic...
If you find it, call me and I'll move too!
Annabelle

Posted by: Annabelle 05-Nov-2003, 12:20 AM
Oh and I forgot to tell you it has it's own downtown and a cute little White Church for all of us God loving folks to go worship...pickett fence and all.
Annabelle

Posted by: Celeste of the Stars1 05-Nov-2003, 02:15 AM
I know this sounds cheesy, but I happen to agree.
lightly quoting the Matrix
"The human brain can not handle a 'perfect' world"

everybody views a "perfect world" differently. Some see it as lollipops and roses others see it was rape and destruction. Its all in the eye of the beholder. Some people think the world we live in now is perfect. Who know maybe we're the one that are "wrong".

Posted by: maryellen 05-Nov-2003, 08:38 PM
Disney is a great illustration. They try to create some perfect world - but there is bad underneath... if you do not like the Disney Corp. like some people.

Few people see a perfect world with rape and destruction. They are the minority and the evil. It is in the eye of the beholder, but most of us could come up with a few common criteria I think. Questioning the way we think is wrong and others are bad is what we are being brainwashed in today's culture: anti-intellectualism. The experts are wrong, nerds are dorks, nothing can be objective, it is all about how you "feel." Decision making isn't based on feeling, it is based on common rules of morals and values that most common sense folk have agreed upon.

Posted by: Celeste of the Stars1 05-Nov-2003, 10:42 PM
QUOTE (maryellen @ Nov 5 2003, 09:38 PM)
Disney is a great illustration. They try to create some perfect world - but there is bad underneath... if you do not like the Disney Corp. like some people.

Few people see a perfect world with rape and destruction. They are the minority and the evil. It is in the eye of the beholder, but most of us could come up with a few common criteria I think. Questioning the way we think is wrong and others are bad is what we are being brainwashed in today's culture: anti-intellectualism. The experts are wrong, nerds are dorks, nothing can be objective, it is all about how you "feel." Decision making isn't based on feeling, it is based on common rules of morals and values that most common sense folk have agreed upon.

If you want to really know why we can't have a "mayberry", then take a look at some of the forums that talk about what heaven is going to be like. No one can totaly agree. Everyone has there own opinion, thats all I was trying to get across. I know there are few if any people that want a world full of rape and destruction, it was just an example.

Posted by: Richard Bercot 05-Nov-2003, 11:09 PM
I have worked for Disney and I never had any problems with any of them. I was treated with the most respect while I was there, and I have met a lot of people there clear up to Michael and he was nice.

So the ones with the problems with Disney, Have you ever worked for them?

Posted by: McHaggis 05-Nov-2003, 11:51 PM
I worked a few music gigs at Disneyland in Anaheim back in the late 60s. They partially sponsored The Anaheim Kingsmen Drum and Bugle Corps and we had to reciprocate by providing musicians for the Christmas parade and things like that. Kingsmen played a jazz version of Mickey Mouse Club March going into concert in their field show in early 70s as part of the agreement with Disney.

One of my best friends was the "head" Mickey Mouse in 67 and 68....might have posted a pic of him here somewhere. Last time I heard he was working with the Disney on ice revue but that was years back,

I think Tom Float, a well respected percussionist/instructor in the drum corps field and fomer Diplomat and Kingsmen, is still working with the percussion group that plays on metal ash cans....what are they called "The Ash Can Revue" or something? I went to music classes with another guy who worked in one of the choral groups there as well, but that was in 68 and I cannot remember his name.

Probably could recall a few more here and there if pressed, but that's all I can come up with

So, yeah, I have ties to the Mouswerks.

RON

Posted by: barddas 06-Nov-2003, 12:04 PM
QUOTE (maryellen @ Nov 5 2003, 10:38 PM)
Decision making isn't based on feeling, it is based on common rules of morals and values that most common sense folk have agreed upon.

Isn't it? A feeling is conected with ones personal belief system which consist of those morals and values. So, wouldn't they *almost* be interchangable....

Posted by: RavenWing 06-Nov-2003, 12:12 PM
QUOTE (Annabelle @ Nov 5 2003, 06:19 AM)
Elspeth there is a little subdivision developed by the Disney Corp called Celebration. It is right off of Hwy 192...It looks picture perfect..the houses look similar but each a little different in Victorian styling...you pay a fee each year and everyone gets their yard cut on the ssame day so everyone's yard looks the same...the grass is the same level in the whole neighborhood..
although it looks perfect, town square, community playground everything, there is no way the rest of the world is going to go away...
those that live there live with the same dangers that are in our world today...it's nice to wish for but unrealistic...
If you find it, call me and I'll move too!
Annabelle

Here is where people differ...that sounds like a nightmare to me. I would hate for everything to be the same. blink.gif

Posted by: oldraven 06-Nov-2003, 12:19 PM
Hey guys. This perfect world you're looking for exists. It's called Nova Scotia. wink.gif

Posted by: myriad 06-Nov-2003, 02:52 PM
QUOTE (myriad @ Nov 4 2003, 08:49 PM)
We will never have Mayberry, because Mayberry never existed.  For example, here are a list of social issues... I want someone to try to guess the year and city that these occurred in.  I will give the answer in a couple of days but I hope to get some responses first. 

High Divorce Rates                        Kids with guns
Gangs                                          Horrible Economy
Drug & Alcohol problems                Assassinations
Bombing                                      Political Terrorists

However we can have better.  We can chose to do things for our neighborhoods to help. 

Well, nobody wanted to take a guess at this but the anwer was Chicago 1890. Sounds a lot like today. Some people use the things from this list to say that our world is getting worse. It is just becoming more publicized. Anyway, I will stop boring you all with this.

I would like to reiterate that we can help our communities even if we can't achieve mayberry. Have a great day!

Mary

Posted by: Elspeth 06-Nov-2003, 08:59 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ Nov 6 2003, 01:19 PM)
Hey guys. This perfect world you're looking for exists. It's called Nova Scotia. wink.gif

OK, oldraven, We're all moving to Nova Scotia. Will it still be perfect then?

Posted by: Elspeth 06-Nov-2003, 09:03 PM
QUOTE (RavenWing @ Nov 6 2003, 01:12 PM)
QUOTE (Annabelle @ Nov 5 2003, 06:19 AM)
Elspeth there is a little subdivision developed by the Disney Corp called Celebration.  It is right off of Hwy 192...It looks picture perfect..the houses look similar but each a little different in Victorian styling...you pay a fee each year and everyone gets their yard cut on the ssame day so everyone's yard looks the same...the grass is the same level in the whole neighborhood..
although it looks perfect, town square, community playground everything, there is no way the rest of the world is going to go away...
those that live there live with the same dangers that are in our world today...it's nice to wish for but unrealistic...
If you find it, call me and I'll move too!
Annabelle

Here is where people differ...that sounds like a nightmare to me. I would hate for everything to be the same. blink.gif

I agree Raven Wing. It sounds like a Stepford town to me. I would be compelled to paint my house fuchia and puce and dig up my front lawn and plant pototoes.

Posted by: Elspeth 06-Nov-2003, 09:10 PM
QUOTE (myriad @ Nov 6 2003, 03:52 PM)
QUOTE (myriad @ Nov 4 2003, 08:49 PM)
We will never have Mayberry, because Mayberry never existed.  For example, here are a list of social issues... I want someone to try to guess the year and city that these occurred in.  I will give the answer in a couple of days but I hope to get some responses first. 

High Divorce Rates                         Kids with guns
Gangs                                           Horrible Economy
Drug & Alcohol problems                Assassinations
Bombing                                       Political Terrorists

However we can have better.  We can chose to do things for our neighborhoods to help. 

Well, nobody wanted to take a guess at this but the anwer was Chicago 1890. Sounds a lot like today. Some people use the things from this list to say that our world is getting worse. It is just becoming more publicized. Anyway, I will stop boring you all with this.

I would like to reiterate that we can help our communities even if we can't achieve mayberry. Have a great day!

Mary

Mary,

You aren't boring us, we just get easily sidetracked. rolleyes.gif

I didn't make a guess, but when I read it, I was thinking of the frontier towns of the 'old west'. Chicago certianly works too.

And you're right things do change, but the bad has always been about to some degree. My grandfather would tell me stories of his day. Helped me have a better perspective from a young age.

But mostly I agree with your last thought. We can all help our communities.

I want to believe things can be better than they are even if 'Mayberry' isn't achievable.

Elspeth

Posted by: myriad 07-Nov-2003, 12:04 PM
Thanks Elspeth, my stepdad is 70 now and has been a great souce of enlightenment for me. He was born during the great depression and was a police officer for 23 years so he has a jaded view about a lot of social issues. I am glad that people are out there striving for better communities. I'm not fighting alone
Myriad

Posted by: oldraven 07-Nov-2003, 12:25 PM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ Nov 6 2003, 07:59 PM)
OK, oldraven, We're all moving to Nova Scotia. Will it still be perfect then?

So far this board seems pretty Utopian, so I'd say yes. I'll get the fire stoked. Save me a seat at table.

beer_mug.gif

Posted by: 3Ravens 07-Nov-2003, 08:09 PM
Yay! We'll all be living in New Scotland and watching the apples grow! And eating dulse!

Posted by: maryellen 18-Nov-2003, 02:34 PM
This question reminds me of the movie "Pleasantville." The main boy (I can't remember his name) tried to keep Pleasantville... pleasant. But, it became inevitably impossible.

Posted by: Annabelle 19-Nov-2003, 10:11 PM
Hey I'll move to NS anytime...I like the cold and men in kilts...pleasantville was too unreal for me...too good....to nice....too un-natural...and no ice cream there....too fattening.

A

Posted by: Unicorns_dragon 03-Jan-2004, 08:35 AM
Sign me up for a little spot of land on new Scotland.....and I agree, it people caring about one another, we may not be able to fix everything but as long as we keep trying, who knows.

Posted by: freekenny 21-Aug-2004, 12:03 AM
QUOTE (Elspeth @ 03-Nov-2003, 04:10 PM)
OK, perhaps this is a lame question to be placed in philosophy, but I am curious.
Recently I have had crime brought right to my doorstep. In talking to the detective, he said "We don't live in Mayberry". I told him but I want to. He responded everyone wants to, but we don't.
OK, that begs for me the question
If we all want to live in Mayberry, they why don't we?
So, back to the question -
If we all want it, why don't we have it?
Is it a function of the majority allowing a few bad apples to dictate?
Or do we really not want it in anything but fantasy?
Can it be achieved?


O'siyo,
First of all, I have no desire to live in a fictional town/community called Mayberry wink.gif I have to live in reality and spending my time looking for a town that only existed in a 'sitcom' would be, in my opinion, a waste of precious time unsure.gif
Do I 'dream' of a world where there is respect for all? Of course, but again, this isn't part of my reality now days because, like it or not, the world is changing and I refuse to say, not in some ways for the better lookaround.gif
Unfortunately, it isn't just a few 'bad apples' that have made the world a little less desirable for those folks that wish to leave their doors unlocked to have that ability, without fear lookaround.gif Whenever there is change it is always going to 'bring about' more deviant behaviour and attitudes. Because of these qualities am I going to 'run' away from the town I am in to search for Mayberry? sad.gif Nah..I want to do what the folks in Mayberry I believe would've done..if deviants would have invaded Andy's home town, the town would've banded together and took care of the problem just as I see many town folks today doing hammer.gif
We can only change the 'things' that we have the absolute ability to change, laws/rules/social 'rights & wrongs'...Mayberry even had 'crime'.. I mean if they didn't and were un-touched by crime then what is up with the jail?
The one absolute I know I can never change is other people's behaviour, attitudes and beliefs...whenever these differences exist there is always going to be a less than perfect society gossip.gif
Sometimes I feel as if others are searching for Mayberry because they don't want to deal with reality, they are tired of the 'ugliness' and most of all they don't know how to fully accept change and the 'factors/characteristics' that go along with it rolleyes.gif
Tis only my opinion~
~Sty-U red_bandana.gif

Posted by: BluegrassLady 21-Aug-2004, 10:42 PM
Just finished all the posts to this topic. I certainly have no sure fire remedies of how to correct all the wrong in this world but I have noticed that people usually respond in kind to how they are treated. If they are treated with respect, they usually are respectful. If they are treated with kindness and honestly, then it is usually returned. So it goes with most attitudes.

The following has always made a lot of sense to me. It was written by Charles Swindoll...

The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than facts. It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company..a church..a home. The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We cannot change our past..we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way. We cannot change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude...I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. And so it is with you..we are in charge of our Attitudes.

Just my opinion...... smile.gif

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