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Posted by: Macfive 10-Feb-2007, 12:33 PM
We are starting this thread to discuss current events from around the world.

Posted by: maisky 10-Feb-2007, 06:56 PM
From CNN: It is sad to say, but Putins comments are all too accurate.


MUNICH, Germany (AP) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin on Saturday blamed U.S. policy for inciting other countries to seek nuclear weapons to defend themselves from an "almost uncontained use of military force."

The stinging attack underscored growing tensions between Washington and Moscow.

"Unilateral, illegitimate actions have not solved a single problem, they have become a hotbed of further conflicts," Putin said at the Munich Conference on Security Policy, an annual forum attracting senior officials from around the world.

"One state, the United States, has overstepped its national borders in every way."

The Bush administration said it was "surprised and disappointed" by Putin's remarks.

"His accusations are wrong," said Gordon Johndroe, President Bush's national security spokesman.

However, the White House did not respond in kind.

"We expect to continue cooperation with Russia in areas important to the international community such as counterterrorism and reducing the spread and threat of weapons of mass destruction," Johndroe said.

Putin attacked Bush's administration for stoking a new arms race by planning to deploy a missile defense system in Eastern Europe and for backing a U.N. plan that would grant virtual independence to Serbia's breakaway province of Kosovo.

Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, who was also attending the conference, described Putin's remarks as "the most aggressive speech from a Russian leader since the end of the Cold War."

The United States and an increasingly assertive Russia repeatedly have butted heads during the past year, with Vice President Dick Cheney accusing Moscow of using its energy resources as "tools of intimidation or blackmail."

Washington also has been angered by Russia's reluctance to impose meaningful sanctions against Iran, which is accused of seeking to develop nuclear weapons under the cover of a civilian atomic energy program.

On the other hand, the United States and Russia have been cooperating in trying to negotiate an end to North Korea's nuclear weapons program. (Watch what North Korea is after )

'A world of one master, one sovereign'
But Putin said it was "the almost uncontained hyper-use of force in international relations" that was forcing countries opposed to Washington to seek to build up nuclear arsenals.

"It is a world of one master, one sovereign. ... It has nothing to do with democracy. This is nourishing the wish of countries to get nuclear weapons," he said.

"This is very dangerous. Nobody feels secure anymore because nobody can hide behind international law," Putin told the gathering.

Putin did not mention the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan, but he voiced concern about NATO's expansion plans as possible challenges to Russia.

"The process of NATO expansion has nothing to do with modernization of the alliance or with ensuring security in Europe," Putin said. "On the contrary, it is a serious factor provoking reduction of mutual trust."

On the missile defense system, Putin said it would seriously change the balance of power and could provoke an unspecified "asymmetric" response.


Posted by: CelticRose 22-Feb-2007, 05:04 PM
Hey all. I know there are far more important things going on in the world...like world peace, war in the middle east, our soldiers fighting for our freedom. But sometimes I need a break from that and need entertainment news to ...well entertain me and make me laugh. Sometimes I don't laugh and it makes me cry too.

My recent entertainment news is re both the Anna Nicole Smith and Britney Spears sagas. Anyone interested in discussing?

Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 22-Feb-2007, 06:49 PM
Just wanted to relate two news items that may have escaped wider notice.

1. President Bush came to North Carolina today to give a speech.

2. Today, much of North Carolina was under a High Wind warning.

Posted by: maisky 23-Feb-2007, 01:01 PM
QUOTE (TheCarolinaScotsman @ 22-Feb-2007, 06:49 PM)
Just wanted to relate two news items that may have escaped wider notice.

1. President Bush came to North Carolina today to give a speech.

2. Today, much of North Carolina was under a High Wind warning.

ROFL! Good one!

Posted by: Antwn 24-Feb-2007, 01:40 PM
QUOTE (TheCarolinaScotsman @ 22-Feb-2007, 07:49 PM)
Just wanted to relate two news items that may have escaped wider notice.

1.  President Bush came to North Carolina today to give a speech.

2.  Today, much of North Carolina was under a High Wind warning.

So what are you saying, that there was a high probablility that North Carolinians would be blown away by his speech? Used to be the land of Jesse Helms, right?

Posted by: CelticCoalition 26-Feb-2007, 11:36 AM
QUOTE (CelticRose @ 22-Feb-2007, 05:04 PM)
Hey all. I know there are far more important things going on in the world...like world peace, war in the middle east, our soldiers fighting for our freedom. But sometimes I need a break from that and need entertainment news to ...well entertain me and make me laugh. Sometimes I don't laugh and it makes me cry too.

My recent entertainment news is re both the Anna Nicole Smith and Britney Spears sagas. Anyone interested in discussing?

I feel bad for Brit. She's falling apart and has a bunch of mental issues. Not only that, but it's all in the public eye, so everyone gets to watch her implode.

As for Anna Nicole, man am I sick of her. People are dying every day, and yet I have to constantly hear about this bimbo.

That's my opinon at least.

Posted by: Brendan 10-Apr-2007, 07:56 PM
Here's a current event...
New York's chief justice Kaye has threatened to bring suit on the State for not increasing the annual salaries of the state Judges currently about $136,000.
They are looking for about $165,000.
When I first saw this I laughed however NYC Carpenters with moderate overtime
earn this plus a healthy benefit package so I guess this is not unreasonable.
Just thought I'd share something different with you folks.

Posted by: John Clements 16-May-2007, 07:26 AM
Farewell to Falwell. Maybe there is a god, after all?
JC

Posted by: John Clements 11-Dec-2007, 02:15 PM
Scottish Independence, or not, what do you think? Personally I think it’s about time the Scotts controlled their own destiny.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/news/newsbeat/070814_scotland.shtml?comment=response#comment

Posted by: oldraven 11-Dec-2007, 02:36 PM
I'm really finding it hard to understand why anyone supports Israel anymore. The day before the first peace talks in seven years, and they send troops, tanks, and air support to raid Gaza. Abbas needs to get the Hamas under control too, (these rocket attacks are also unjustifiable), but at least their leader isn't ordering attacks this close to peace talks.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20071211/israel_gaza_071211/20071211?hub=TopStories

Posted by: CelticRose 18-Dec-2007, 09:19 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 11-Dec-2007, 03:15 PM)
Scottish Independence, or not, what do you think? Personally I think it’s about time the Scotts controlled their own destiny.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/news/newsbeat/070814_scotland.shtml?comment=response#comment

Hello John. This is an issue that I find very difficult to decide nowadays. I have Scottish friends on both sides. Some want independence and say they can do so with the making of whisky and oil nearby....no problem. However, I talk to other Scottish friends of mine who like things the way they are and say they don't feel Scotland can survive on its own. So what can I say as an American? I have never even been to Scotland and feel it is not my place to say otherwise. I just want the very best for Scotland, whatever that may be in the future for them.

Alba Gu Brath! smile.gif

Posted by: Camac 30-Jan-2008, 06:29 PM
30/01/08

John;
I was in Scotland in Oct. 07 on a personal pilgrimage to meet my biological fathers family.I left Scotland at the age of five in 1947 as my mother, (a widow) had remarried to a Canadian who adopted me (thus the name Campbell-McArthur). The majority of Scots that I had the pleasure of speaking to were all for independence but not leaving the Commonwealth or setting up a Republic. using Ireland as an example they want a seat in the E.U. and greater control of their economyand of course the tax money stays in Scotland. From a strictly emmotional point I think all Scots long for the day when Scotland is free and the Saltire is recognized as the Nation Flag. I found it surprising that the Scots feel towards England much the same as Canadians feel towrds the U.S. good neighbours but keep your nose out of our business. If the 12 million Scots in the U.S, the 6 million in Canada, and the five million in Australia were allowed to vote not only would Alba be free but the sassenach would be bending a knee to us.

Camac.

Posted by: lawrence50 10-Mar-2008, 02:29 PM
The Monarchy is old and tired no matter what they do to try and appear modern. The Royal family is no better than you and I. They are figureheads at best. The British Empire is no more.

Posted by: John Clements 10-Mar-2008, 04:07 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 30-Jan-2008, 07:29 PM)
30/01/08

John;
I was in Scotland in Oct. 07 on a personal pilgrimage to meet my biological fathers family.I left Scotland at the age of five in 1947 as my mother, (a widow) had remarried to a Canadian who adopted me (thus the name Campbell-McArthur). The majority of Scots that I had the pleasure of speaking to were all for independence but not leaving the Commonwealth or setting up a Republic. using Ireland as an example they want a seat in the E.U. and greater control of their economyand of course the tax money stays in Scotland. From a strictly emmotional point I think all Scots long for the day when Scotland is free and the Saltire is recognized as the Nation Flag. I found it surprising that the Scots feel towards England much the same as Canadians feel towrds the U.S. good neighbours but keep your nose out of our business. If the 12 million Scots in the U.S, the 6 million in Canada, and the five million in Australia were allowed to vote not only would Alba be free but the sassenach would be bending a knee to us.

Camac.

So here I am saying I’m sorry again, for not responding to this post for so long, as I just came on to it. Anyway, I totally agree. (You know I’m beginning to think that I should start playing Roller Hockey again, just so I can get some frustration out).

Posted by: Patch 22-Apr-2008, 08:41 PM
I just saw on CNN today that China is attacking them for their coverage of some of China's recent foul ups. I guess China does not understand our first amendment.

Slàinte,      

Patch

Posted by: oldraven 23-Apr-2008, 06:29 AM
QUOTE (lawrence50 @ 10-Mar-2008, 01:29 PM)
The Monarchy is old and tired no matter what they do to try and appear modern. The Royal family is no better than you and I. They are figureheads at best. The British Empire is no more.

Yes. They are the living history of England, and Britain dare I say it. The Empire is gone, and they hold no real power anymore. At least, I think trying to wield any of that power would spell their doom. But we are all here on CR to celebrate our heritage. As a Reeves, I maintain that the Monarchy plays a very large part in my own heritage. I would see a King or Queen on the throne on my last day, if I had it my way. I hope my children and grandchildren (should I have any wink.gif ) will be able to say the same, as England without a Monarch is hardly England at all. As for the rest of Britain, well, they all had their own Monarchy's in their time. If they became independent, I don't know how they would go about reviving them, even if they wanted to.

Posted by: Camac 23-Apr-2008, 07:00 AM
oldraven;

As a Monarchist I agree with you the Empire is dead but it was replaced as you know with the Commonwealth of which the Monarch is the Head. Mainly the Monarch is a symbol of both continuity and tradition but within Britain itself they are the Executive Branch of Government with considerable powers. The main role is to advise and consent but they do have the power to disolve Parliament and they are the head of the Military. These powers of course are rarely if ever used.
When Scotland gains independence it will retain the present Monarchy because they desend from the Stewarts and I remember reading somewhere that the living
direct members of the Stewarts signed away all claims to the English and Scottish Thrones.

Camac

Posted by: oldraven 25-Apr-2008, 07:25 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 23-Apr-2008, 06:00 AM)
oldraven;

As a Monarchist I agree with you the Empire is dead but it was replaced as you know with the Commonwealth of which the Monarch is the Head. Mainly the Monarch is a symbol of both continuity and tradition but within Britain itself they are the Executive Branch of Government with considerable powers. The main role is to advise and consent but they do have the power to disolve Parliament and they are the head of the Military. These powers of course are rarely if ever used.

Camac

Yes. That's why I said "At least, I think trying to wield any of that power would spell their doom". That is to say, if they were to use some of the more extreme powers they have on paper, such as dissolving Parliament, the people would stand against them so fast their heads would spin. Government would rally the people against the Monarchy to hold on to control. I don't think it would take a lot for them to take a page from France's book.

Posted by: John Clements 25-Apr-2008, 08:44 AM
Shawn Bell?
Once again Law Enforcement get away scot free, after shooting down another unarmed black man, (why they’re not even going to loose their jobs). It doesn’t seem right to me.

Posted by: Patch 25-Apr-2008, 01:48 PM
It is called "Police State". Notice the number of shaved heads (visions of Nazi Storm Troopers) It is even beginning to happen in small communities. We have a trial coming up of a white Swat officer who shot and killed a young black woman who was holding a baby. The baby was wounded. (This was his second suspect killing.) He cries during his court appearances. I saw bullies like that in school. They get thumped on a little and they "cry for Mommy".

Slàinte,   

Patch

Posted by: Camac 26-Apr-2008, 09:27 AM
J.C
So far here north of the border we haven't had to many incidents like the one in NYC. and when we do the S.I.U. take over and usually, not always the constable(s) involved are charged. Our problem is with the Courts and the Justice system.Who are far to lenient with these offenders. Most of our police are fine and do a great job but its always the bad apples who seem to get away with it.

Camac.

Posted by: Patch 26-Apr-2008, 04:42 PM
JC

They may have to deal with Justice Dept and the Federal prison system on Civil Rights Issues yet!

With an election coming I would say say odds are the three are not out of the woods.

Slàinte,   

Patch

Posted by: John Clements 08-May-2008, 06:44 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 26-Apr-2008, 05:42 PM)
JC

They may have to deal with Justice Dept and the Federal prison system on Civil Rights Issues yet!

With an election coming I would say say odds are the three are not out of the woods.

Slàinte,   

Patch

From your lips to Gods ears, Patch, but then, that’s only an expression, is it?
JC

Posted by: Patch 08-May-2008, 08:31 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 26-Apr-2008, 05:42 PM)
JC

They may have to deal with Justice Dept and the Federal prison system on Civil Rights Issues yet! 

With an election coming I would say say odds are the three are not out of the woods. 

Slàinte,   

Patch

From your lips to Gods ears, Patch, but then, that’s only an expression, is it?
JC

It seems that about the only true justice gained is because of some other external force.

Slàinte,     

Patch

Posted by: Patch 08-May-2008, 08:35 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 26-Apr-2008, 05:42 PM)
JC

They may have to deal with Justice Dept and the Federal prison system on Civil Rights Issues yet! 

With an election coming I would say say odds are the three are not out of the woods. 

Slàinte,   

Patch

From your lips to Gods ears, Patch, but then, that’s only an expression, is it?
JC

It seems that about the only true justice gained is because of some other external force.

Slàinte,     

Patch

Before I retired, I had a sign on my office wall which read:

"Government will ALWAYS do the right thing, after all else fails!"

Slàinte,     

Patch

Posted by: John Clements 08-May-2008, 08:52 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 09:35 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 26-Apr-2008, 05:42 PM)
JC

They may have to deal with Justice Dept and the Federal prison system on Civil Rights Issues yet! 

With an election coming I would say say odds are the three are not out of the woods. 

Slàinte,   

Patch

From your lips to Gods ears, Patch, but then, that’s only an expression, is it?
JC

It seems that about the only true justice gained is because of some other external force.

Slàinte,     

Patch

Before I retired, I had a sign on my office wall which read:

"Government will ALWAYS do the right thing, after all else fails!"

Slàinte,     

Patch

That’s funny because it was Winston Churchill who said: You can always count on America to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else.
Good night man,
JC

Posted by: Patch 08-May-2008, 09:38 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 03:52 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 09:35 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 26-Apr-2008, 05:42 PM)
JC

They may have to deal with Justice Dept and the Federal prison system on Civil Rights Issues yet! 

With an election coming I would say say odds are the three are not out of the woods. 

Slàinte,   

Patch

From your lips to Gods ears, Patch, but then, that’s only an expression, is it?
JC

It seems that about the only true justice gained is because of some other external force.

Slàinte,     

Patch

Before I retired, I had a sign on my office wall which read:

"Government will ALWAYS do the right thing, after all else fails!"

Slàinte,     

Patch

That’s funny because it was Winston Churchill who said: You can always count on America to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else.
Good night man,
JC

One of my other framed signs was:

"I'm with the Government and I am here to help you." A common joke at least in Govt. circles.

My oldest Daughter is artistic and did several for me.

My office was like "Casa D' Ice in Pa. though I had to be more careful. If you haven't seen it www.casadice.com

Check his signs (the food is good too!)

Slàinte,     

Patch

Posted by: John Clements 09-May-2008, 06:56 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 10:38 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 03:52 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 09:35 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 26-Apr-2008, 05:42 PM)
JC

They may have to deal with Justice Dept and the Federal prison system on Civil Rights Issues yet! 

With an election coming I would say say odds are the three are not out of the woods. 

Slàinte,   

Patch

From your lips to Gods ears, Patch, but then, that’s only an expression, is it?
JC

It seems that about the only true justice gained is because of some other external force.

Slàinte,     

Patch

Before I retired, I had a sign on my office wall which read:

"Government will ALWAYS do the right thing, after all else fails!"

Slàinte,     

Patch

That’s funny because it was Winston Churchill who said: You can always count on America to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else.
Good night man,
JC

One of my other framed signs was:

"I'm with the Government and I am here to help you." A common joke at least in Govt. circles.

My oldest Daughter is artistic and did several for me.

My office was like "Casa D' Ice in Pa. though I had to be more careful. If you haven't seen it www.casadice.com

Check his signs (the food is good too!)

Slàinte,     

Patch

I’ll go with the: Linguini with Mussels, since mine have been shrinking.

JC

Posted by: Patch 09-May-2008, 05:58 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 09-May-2008, 01:56 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 10:38 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 03:52 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 09:35 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 26-Apr-2008, 05:42 PM)
JC

They may have to deal with Justice Dept and the Federal prison system on Civil Rights Issues yet! 

With an election coming I would say say odds are the three are not out of the woods. 

Slàinte,   

Patch

From your lips to Gods ears, Patch, but then, that’s only an expression, is it?
JC

It seems that about the only true justice gained is because of some other external force.

Slàinte,     

Patch

Before I retired, I had a sign on my office wall which read:

"Government will ALWAYS do the right thing, after all else fails!"

Slàinte,     

Patch

That’s funny because it was Winston Churchill who said: You can always count on America to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else.
Good night man,
JC

One of my other framed signs was:

"I'm with the Government and I am here to help you." A common joke at least in Govt. circles.

My oldest Daughter is artistic and did several for me.

My office was like "Casa D' Ice in Pa. though I had to be more careful. If you haven't seen it www.casadice.com

Check his signs (the food is good too!)

Slàinte,     

Patch

I’ll go with the: Linguini with Mussels, since mine have been shrinking.

JC

I know about the muscle shrinkage. I had lost a considerable amount of weight and was already thin. I am trying to put it back on as muscle before the end of August as that is the tentative date of my trip to Africa. I still can't shoot my heavy rifles. (460 and 375) I have a little over three months to load up on protein and work out.

What did you think os Casa D' Ice?

I was traveling , taking the scenic route, when I found it.

Slàinte,     

Patch

Posted by: John Clements 09-May-2008, 08:00 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 09-May-2008, 06:58 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 09-May-2008, 01:56 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 10:38 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 03:52 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 09:35 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 08-May-2008, 03:31 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 08-May-2008, 01:44 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 26-Apr-2008, 05:42 PM)
JC

They may have to deal with Justice Dept and the Federal prison system on Civil Rights Issues yet! 

With an election coming I would say say odds are the three are not out of the woods. 

Slàinte,   

Patch

From your lips to Gods ears, Patch, but then, that’s only an expression, is it?
JC

It seems that about the only true justice gained is because of some other external force.

Slàinte,     

Patch

Before I retired, I had a sign on my office wall which read:

"Government will ALWAYS do the right thing, after all else fails!"

Slàinte,     

Patch

That’s funny because it was Winston Churchill who said: You can always count on America to do the right thing, after they’ve tried everything else.
Good night man,
JC

One of my other framed signs was:

"I'm with the Government and I am here to help you." A common joke at least in Govt. circles.

My oldest Daughter is artistic and did several for me.

My office was like "Casa D' Ice in Pa. though I had to be more careful. If you haven't seen it www.casadice.com

Check his signs (the food is good too!)

Slàinte,     

Patch

I’ll go with the: Linguini with Mussels, since mine have been shrinking.

JC

I know about the muscle shrinkage. I had lost a considerable amount of weight and was already thin. I am trying to put it back on as muscle before the end of August as that is the tentative date of my trip to Africa. I still can't shoot my heavy rifles. (460 and 375) I have a little over three months to load up on protein and work out.

What did you think os Casa D' Ice?

I was traveling , taking the scenic route, when I found it.

Slàinte,     

Patch

Sorry Patch, I missed what you were getting at. If it was the Neon Signage, I think it looks great. I once designed a Neon Bar sign for Forster’s Beer, when I was doing ad concept for them. It was a fun account to work on.

I have to do some push-ups now, catch you later,
JC

Posted by: Patch 10-May-2008, 01:29 PM
At the Casa D' Ice site there is a link to the "slogans" on his advertising sign out front. He changes it regularly depending the stupid Govt actions at the time. It does not seem to have hurt his business.

Slàinte,    

Patch

Posted by: stoirmeil 10-May-2008, 02:46 PM
Sorry to interrupt the pleasantries. The coastal region of Myanmar has been under stinking salt floodwater full of wreckage and human and animal corpses for a week, and their own government is still blocking most of the relief efforts; they seized a planeload of emergency food and have only now released it with some hasty stickers on it indicating that it's coming from their own government supplies. France is suggesting an airlift override of the blockade, and damn the junta if they try to resist it; they are in no position to do much meaningful resistance anyway. No one else is responding to France.

What are they hiding, and what is the rest of the world waiting for? Why do we think international law is worth a damn, if a tinpot excuse for a government can do whatever it wants with its own population, as long as the people and the place are not strategically interesting to the powers? The Myanmar government is holding a previously planned referendum this week, cool as you please, as if three million people were not displaced and this year's whole rice crop, their main food supply, not destroyed. I never thought I'd believe FEMA was better than nothing, but this balking at rescue and relief is beyond comprehension.

Posted by: Patch 10-May-2008, 04:20 PM
I agree with your take. If an airlift was mounted, their govt could only shake their fist's at the planes and run their mouths.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 12-May-2008, 08:32 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 10-May-2008, 05:20 PM)
I agree with your take. If an airlift was mounted, their govt could only shake their fist's at the planes and run their mouths.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

I think an air drop of food and supplies is a good idea. Since our government would accept the help of Cuban Doctors in New Orleans, maybe they should have parachuted in? Nah…We probably would have shot them down, unlike those plains we should have shot down.

Sorry about be so negative guys. It’s just that there isn’t very much to be positive about, these days.

JC

Posted by: stoirmeil 13-May-2008, 09:30 AM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 12-May-2008, 09:32 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 10-May-2008, 05:20 PM)
I agree with your take.  If an airlift was mounted, their govt could only shake their fist's at the planes and run their mouths.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

I think an air drop of food and supplies is a good idea. Since our government would accept the help of Cuban Doctors in New Orleans, maybe they should have parachuted in? Nah…We probably would have shot them down, unlike those plains we should have shot down.

Sorry about be so negative guys. It’s just that there isn’t very much to be positive about, these days.

JC

If there had been no Berlin Airlift, we would be living in a radically different world today. The Russians took potshots at the relief planes then, but they never risked shooting one down for fear of engaging the rest of the allied powers by an act of war and blowing the whole mess open again. With the Burmese junta, there's no telling what lame-brained thing they would do if they could, but they don't have the firepower to fend off an airlift. Logistically it's a horror dropping perishables because of all the water, but watertight pallets could be devised with a little thought to get something through. The military has apparently kept the small amount of high quality food that was brought in and then seized, and is handing out decayed rice to the people.

A government ripe for a turnover -- too bad there's no oil under Myanmar, just a load of fancy rubies; no one in this world ever deposed a totalitarian leader just because the people are suffering. Write that one right out of the books. dry.gif

Edit -- just read that the Chinese are welcoming funds and supplies, but not relief workers after the earthquake. Same story. What in God's name are these people hiding that they don't want the world to see, and how is it more important than the lives of thousands of their people? ALthough I must say, their infrastructure and personnel are in better shape than Burma, and the nature of the disaster is different -- access is better, and they don't lack for hands to shift rubble. But still, medical specialists, trauma specialists -- they could use all that.

Posted by: Patch 13-May-2008, 11:26 AM
I just heard the Chinese are admitting to 9,000 dead and 18,000 still in the rubble in one city alone. There are many more remote areas that have not been heard from at this time. The Chinese have so many people that they could lose 30 to 60 million people and it would only help their economy!

Slàinte,    

Patch  

Posted by: John Clements 13-May-2008, 12:30 PM
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 13-May-2008, 10:30 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 12-May-2008, 09:32 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 10-May-2008, 05:20 PM)
I agree with your take.  If an airlift was mounted, their govt could only shake their fist's at the planes and run their mouths.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

I think an air drop of food and supplies is a good idea. Since our government would accept the help of Cuban Doctors in New Orleans, maybe they should have parachuted in? Nah…We probably would have shot them down, unlike those plains we should have shot down.

Sorry about be so negative guys. It’s just that there isn’t very much to be positive about, these days.

JC

If there had been no Berlin Airlift, we would be living in a radically different world today. The Russians took potshots at the relief planes then, but they never risked shooting one down for fear of engaging the rest of the allied powers by an act of war and blowing the whole mess open again. With the Burmese junta, there's no telling what lame-brained thing they would do if they could, but they don't have the firepower to fend off an airlift. Logistically it's a horror dropping perishables because of all the water, but watertight pallets could be devised with a little thought to get something through. The military has apparently kept the small amount of high quality food that was brought in and then seized, and is handing out decayed rice to the people.

A government ripe for a turnover -- too bad there's no oil under Myanmar, just a load of fancy rubies; no one in this world ever deposed a totalitarian leader just because the people are suffering. Write that one right out of the books. dry.gif

Edit -- just read that the Chinese are welcoming funds and supplies, but not relief workers after the earthquake. Same story. What in God's name are these people hiding that they don't want the world to see, and how is it more important than the lives of thousands of their people? ALthough I must say, their infrastructure and personnel are in better shape than Burma, and the nature of the disaster is different -- access is better, and they don't lack for hands to shift rubble. But still, medical specialists, trauma specialists -- they could use all that.


I’m aware of the Berlin air lift, as I’m sure most of us are.

Tell you what I think, (read mimicking WC Fields).

“What we have here is… “Assisted Genocide”! Or Genocide by Nature, don’t you know that all governments love it, (including ours), because it’s a whole lot cheaper! And they can say…Hey, we did the best we could”?

Of course they don’t want our people in there, so they can manipulate the goods and take money, and also stop outsiders from putting bad ideas in their heads. Little do they know…it’s all the same thing.

You got it Patch.

Got to go get my hands dirty, later,
JC

PS: Oh I almost forgot, for those of you who don’t know, us conspiracy thinkers call 911 a “Coupe”.

Posted by: Patch 14-May-2008, 04:45 AM
The news this AM indicated they finally reached a village of 10,000 at the epicenter of the Chinese quake and only 2300 survived. The death toll is rising rapidly in the rest of the area and many small communities have not been reached yet. I am guessing that this could equal Myamar. It is certain the Chinese will not allow outsiders in to help. I wonder if they are loaning us money to send relief?

Slàinte,    

Patch  

Posted by: Camac 14-May-2008, 09:12 AM
Patch;

There is always the U.N. R.T.P. (Right to Protection) resolution which China voted for. That will stir up the pot.

Camac.

Posted by: Patch 14-May-2008, 07:04 PM
I do not expect China will will allow anyone in to help and it will cost tens of thousands of lives. I am not familiar with the U.N. R.T.P resolution but sometimes things come back to bite you.

Slàinte,    

Patch  

Posted by: Patch 16-May-2008, 08:05 PM
They are now projecting the death toll in China to be over 50,000 and in Myanmar at over 128.000. I doubt with the latter they will ever know for sure how many perished.

Slàinte,   

Patch   

Posted by: Garry Denke 19-May-2008, 08:43 PM
O... My... G-d!

There has been enough Hele Stone weathering of the Jeremiah Ezekiel described lion head, calf head, and face as a man (clockwise) Stone carvings of Heel Stone throughout the millennia, and of those flying eagle's wings centering them on the Heelstone southwest face.

Now vandals are destroying what is left of the Stone which the builders rejected that Jesus Christ described in the Holy Bible Gospel, whereunder rests Daniel the Prophet identified Ancient of days throne described in the Revelation of Jesus Christ by Saint John the Divine.

Well hopefully these vandals did not cause even further Heel Stone damage to that lion head, calf head, face as a man (clockwise) and flying eagle's wings (centering) of the southwest face of Heelstone that faces the King James Bible described seven (7) Stone Archway.

The head of the corner Stone of the Avenue has been weathered enough!
The head of the corner Stone of the Avenue has been destroyed enough!
The head of the corner Stone of the Avenue has been damaged enough!

Save the Heel Stone! Save the Heelstone!

G-d

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/7529895
http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/salisbury/salisburynews/display.var.2281183.0.0.php
http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/headlines/display.var.2281183.0.vandals_cause_damage_at_stonehenge.php

Posted by: Dogshirt 20-May-2008, 09:28 AM
QUOTE
O... My... G-d!

There has been enough Hele Stone weathering of the Jeremiah Ezekiel described lion head, calf head, and face as a man (clockwise) Stone carvings of Heel Stone throughout the millennia, and of those flying eagle's wings centering them on the Heelstone southwest face.

Now vandals are destroying what is left of the Stone which the builders rejected that Jesus Christ described in the Holy Bible Gospel, whereunder rests Daniel the Prophet identified Ancient of days throne described in the Revelation of Jesus Christ by Saint John the Divine.

Well hopefully these vandals did not cause even further Heel Stone damage to that lion head, calf head, face as a man (clockwise) and flying eagle's wings (centering) of the southwest face of Heelstone that faces the King James Bible described seven (7) Stone Archway.

The head of the corner Stone of the Avenue has been weathered enough!
The head of the corner Stone of the Avenue has been destroyed enough!
The head of the corner Stone of the Avenue has been damaged enough!

Save the Heel Stone! Save the Heelstone!

G-d

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/7529895
http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/sal...2281183.0.0.php
http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/news/head..._stonehenge.php



Take it elsewhere, no one is listening!


beer_mug.gif

Posted by: Patch 22-May-2008, 07:46 AM
I read this AM that Crude peaked at $135 plus over night. Ford announced that they are cutting production for the rest of the year due to instability in the market place. The lay off will cause more instability. ALSO, the maximum crude recovery cost on this continent is about $60 a barrel. That is for "oil shale" in this country and "oil sand" in Canada. There is a gigantic deep water reserve off the coast of South America which would cost $90 a barrel to pump.

At some point if the people do not get mad, we will be eating grass and shoe leather as happened during the Irish potato famine!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 28-May-2008, 04:48 PM
I just heard that Scott McClelland's book critical of the bush, white house, himself and the news media was just released. All but Scott are in an uproar!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 29-May-2008, 07:30 AM
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 13-May-2008, 08:30 AM)
If there had been no Berlin Airlift, we would be living in a radically different world today. The Russians took potshots at the relief planes then, but they never risked shooting one down for fear of engaging the rest of the allied powers by an act of war and blowing the whole mess open again. With the Burmese junta, there's no telling what lame-brained thing they would do if they could, but they don't have the firepower to fend off an airlift. Logistically it's a horror dropping perishables because of all the water, but watertight pallets could be devised with a little thought to get something through. The military has apparently kept the small amount of high quality food that was brought in and then seized, and is handing out decayed rice to the people.

A government ripe for a turnover -- too bad there's no oil under Myanmar, just a load of fancy rubies; no one in this world ever deposed a totalitarian leader just because the people are suffering. Write that one right out of the books. dry.gif

Edit -- just read that the Chinese are welcoming funds and supplies, but not relief workers after the earthquake. Same story. What in God's name are these people hiding that they don't want the world to see, and how is it more important than the lives of thousands of their people? ALthough I must say, their infrastructure and personnel are in better shape than Burma, and the nature of the disaster is different -- access is better, and they don't lack for hands to shift rubble. But still, medical specialists, trauma specialists -- they could use all that.

I think it has a lot less to do with what they are hiding from the outside world and more to do with what they are hiding from their own people. Ideas that they don't want into the locals heads.

Posted by: Camac 29-May-2008, 09:22 AM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 29-May-2008, 08:30 AM)
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 13-May-2008, 08:30 AM)
If there had been no Berlin Airlift, we would be living in a radically different world today.  The Russians took potshots at the relief planes then, but they never risked shooting one down for fear of engaging the rest of the allied powers by an act of war and blowing the whole mess open again.  With the Burmese junta, there's no telling what lame-brained thing they would do if they could, but they don't have the firepower to fend off an airlift.  Logistically it's a horror dropping perishables because of all the water, but watertight pallets could be devised with a little thought to get something through.  The military has apparently kept the small amount of high quality food that was brought in and then seized, and is handing out decayed rice to the people. 

A government ripe for a turnover -- too bad there's no oil under Myanmar, just a load of fancy rubies; no one in this world ever deposed a totalitarian leader just because the people are suffering.  Write that one right out of the books. dry.gif

Edit -- just read that the Chinese are welcoming funds and supplies, but not relief workers after the earthquake.  Same story.  What in God's name are these people hiding that they don't want the world to see, and how is it more important than the lives of thousands of their people?  ALthough I must say, their infrastructure and personnel are in better shape than Burma, and the nature of the disaster is different -- access is better, and they don't lack for hands to shift rubble.  But still, medical specialists, trauma specialists -- they could use all that.

I think it has a lot less to do with what they are hiding from the outside world and more to do with what they are hiding from their own people. Ideas that they don't want into the locals heads.

In Knowledge, there lies Power.


Camac.

Posted by: stoirmeil 29-May-2008, 09:35 AM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 29-May-2008, 08:30 AM)
I think it has a lot less to do with what they are hiding from the outside world and more to do with what they are hiding from their own people. Ideas that they don't want into the locals heads.

You're probably right about that. Even more so for Myanmar -- they are keeping Aung San Suu Kyi in her house illegally for another year. Her release would be a political disaster for the government now, but keeping her this way isn't much better either internally or in the eyes of the world. One of the political experts on Asian affairs commented on NPR recently about Burma: "Order first, humanity second. And it's been that way for forty years." I'm glad they're keeping the issue independent of the effort to get some aid provisions in, but it isn't really independent of it in the larger sense. That regime is on borrowed time.

Posted by: John Clements 29-May-2008, 12:22 PM
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 29-May-2008, 10:35 AM)
You're probably right about that. Even more so for Myanmar -- they are keeping Aung San Suu Kyi in her house illegally for another year. Her release would be a political disaster for the government now, but keeping her this way isn't much better either internally or in the eyes of the world. One of the political experts on Asian affairs commented on NPR recently about Burma: "Order first, humanity second. And it's been that way for forty years." I'm glad they're keeping the issue independent of the effort to get some aid provisions in, but it isn't really independent of it in the larger sense. That regime is on borrowed time.

Isn’t it amazing how they always get it backwards. Put Humanity first, and Order comes along for the ride.

That regime is on borrowed time? So is this one! So you better get ready for another terrorist attack, followed immediately by Martial Law. (And this time, they won’t care if they get caught!)

Posted by: Patch 29-May-2008, 01:07 PM
It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market. That market is the engine driving fuel prices. It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released! This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: stoirmeil 29-May-2008, 02:35 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 02:07 PM)
It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market.  That market is the engine driving fuel prices.  It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released!  This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

[irony]
shocking.gif
PRICE MANIPULATION??!!
You can't mean they've been jacking it up and down (or just up) on PURPOSE, can you? [/irony]

You know, when something like that breaks the only thing I can think of is "Who does it benefit that they are exposing this TODAY?" Especially in a high-tension political climate. dry.gif

Posted by: Patch 29-May-2008, 03:48 PM
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 29-May-2008, 09:35 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 02:07 PM)
It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market.  That market is the engine driving fuel prices.  It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released!  This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

[irony]
shocking.gif
PRICE MANIPULATION??!!
You can't mean they've been jacking it up and down (or just up) on PURPOSE, can you? [/irony]

You know, when something like that breaks the only thing I can think of is "Who does it benefit that they are exposing this TODAY?" Especially in a high-tension political climate. dry.gif

Yes my thinking also. The price did drop $4.00 plus a barrel with the announcment. I think for the most part the release for whatever reason is to benefit the GOP. There could be criminal activity (based on the immediate drop in price.)

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 29-May-2008, 04:54 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 04:48 PM)
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 29-May-2008, 09:35 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 02:07 PM)
It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market.  That market is the engine driving fuel prices.  It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released!  This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

[irony]
shocking.gif
PRICE MANIPULATION??!!
You can't mean they've been jacking it up and down (or just up) on PURPOSE, can you? [/irony]

You know, when something like that breaks the only thing I can think of is "Who does it benefit that they are exposing this TODAY?" Especially in a high-tension political climate. dry.gif

Yes my thinking also. The price did drop $4.00 plus a barrel with the announcment. I think for the most part the release for whatever reason is to benefit the GOP. There could be criminal activity (based on the immediate drop in price.)

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Well SURPRISE SUPRRISE!
Didn’t the Baseball team owners do the same thing, (back in the day), conspiring to keep the players salaries down! All the clichés fit, and I think this “Boil” is coming to a head. So you better brake out the bandages!

Posted by: Patch 29-May-2008, 05:11 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 29-May-2008, 11:54 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 04:48 PM)
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 29-May-2008, 09:35 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 29-May-2008, 02:07 PM)
It was just released a few minutes ago that the commodities regulating commission is investigating price manipulation in the oil futures market.  That market is the engine driving fuel prices.  It was said to be unprecedented that this information would be released!  This may have an effect on gas prices shortly.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

[irony]
shocking.gif
PRICE MANIPULATION??!!
You can't mean they've been jacking it up and down (or just up) on PURPOSE, can you? [/irony]

You know, when something like that breaks the only thing I can think of is "Who does it benefit that they are exposing this TODAY?" Especially in a high-tension political climate. dry.gif

Yes my thinking also. The price did drop $4.00 plus a barrel with the announcment. I think for the most part the release for whatever reason is to benefit the GOP. There could be criminal activity (based on the immediate drop in price.)

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Well SURPRISE SUPRRISE!
Didn’t the Baseball team owners do the same thing, (back in the day), conspiring to keep the players salaries down! All the clichés fit, and I think this “Boil” is coming to a head. So you better brake out the bandages!

I am in total agreement. Retail prices were rising on the basis of oil futures prices. It will be interesting to see how many investors" loose their nerve over night and bail tomorrow morning.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 31-May-2008, 02:16 PM
According to prominent Democrats last night, they want to enter the Michigan/Florida primary results and the super delegates according to a formula. Depending on the formula, Hillary may still have an outside chance to win. Who would have thought such!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Robert Phoenix 31-May-2008, 11:16 PM
Check this out. Obama, Bush, and Cheney are all distant cousins.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/familytree/545460,BSX-News-wotreea09.article

And don't worry the pice of gas won't go up until we are all comfortable with $4.00 a gallon. Then they will raise it to $6.00/gal to get us to freak out and be grateful for $5.00/gal

Posted by: Patch 01-Jun-2008, 02:21 AM
QUOTE (Robert Phoenix @ 31-May-2008, 06:16 PM)
Check this out. Obama, Bush, and Cheney are all distant cousins.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/familytree/545460,BSX-News-wotreea09.article

And don't worry the pice of gas won't go up until we are all comfortable with $4.00 a gallon. Then they will raise it to $6.00/gal to get us to freak out and be grateful for $5.00/gal

This "shortage" in the supply of oil per the House and Senate testimony just ended is reminiscent of the past toilet paper, sugar, coffee and fuel shortages. For some strange reason since last Friday, I haven't heard the oil futures price announced on TV. The investigation was announced on Thursday. If I hear nothing on monday, I will have to buy a Wall Street Journal.

As to the cousins, I do not think bush and cheny will admit it.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Emmet 01-Jun-2008, 11:29 PM
Fossil fuels, particularly petrochemicals, are the sine qua non of the Industrial Age. At some point it was inevitable that global demand will outstrip supply; demand will continue to rise while production precipitously declines. The discovery of new oil reserves peaked in the 1962 and has declined to virtually nothing in the past few years. The last year we discovered more oil than we extracted was 1979. Today we consume 6 barrels of oil for every single barrel we find. In 2005 world oil production peaked at just under 82.5 million barrels a day, while global oil consumption was 83.6 million barrels a day. Since then oil production has declined while demand has continued to grow; this year it's projected to be 86.8 million barrels a day.
Reigning in profiteering and re-regulating futures markets, while laudable (and much too little, too late, if it happens at all) won't change the basic equation.

If you think $4.00 a gallon is bad, just wait. Goldman Sachs (one of the leading offenders in backroom commodities trading) predicted gas might be $6.00 a gallon by Christmas, and what do you think will happen if King George (or his anointed heir apparent) gets his wish and bombs Iran, who in turn pops a couple of supertankers in the Straits of Hormuz with Silkworms? Think of the global economy having the equivalent of a massive myocardial infarction.

Posted by: Patch 02-Jun-2008, 01:18 AM
QUOTE (Emmet @ 01-Jun-2008, 06:29 PM)
Fossil fuels, particularly petrochemicals, are the sine qua non of the Industrial Age. At some point it was inevitable that global demand will outstrip supply; demand will continue to rise while production precipitously declines. The discovery of new oil reserves peaked in the 1962 and has declined to virtually nothing in the past few years. The last year we discovered more oil than we extracted was 1979. Today we consume 6 barrels of oil for every single barrel we find. In 2005 world oil production peaked at just under 82.5 million barrels a day, while global oil consumption was 83.6 million barrels a day. Since then oil production has declined while demand has continued to grow; this year it's projected to be 86.8 million barrels a day.
Reigning in profiteering and re-regulating futures markets, while laudable (and much too little, too late, if it happens at all) won't change the basic equation.

If you think $4.00 a gallon is bad, just wait. Goldman Sachs (one of the leading offenders in backroom commodities trading) predicted gas might be $6.00 a gallon by Christmas, and what do you think will happen if King George (or his anointed heir apparent) gets his wish and bombs Iran, who in turn pops a couple of supertankers in the Straits of Hormuz with Silkworms? Think of the global economy having the equivalent of a massive myocardial infarction.

I agree with you with one exception and that would be the reserves of oil shale that we have. The recovery cost is now feasible and is less than the cost of recovery on oil sand in Canada. We could not get it into the system quick enough to forestall the impending economic crisis. In my area there is a move toward Methanol. I have been told that for Methanonl to be economically feasible, gasoline needs to be selling for about $7.00 a gallon at this point.. As the price of corn increases so do production costs. There is a "still" about 30 miles from me which has been in the "planning stage for a number of years. They have been drawing incomes from it but there has been no meaningful production to date. I believe Hydrogen is the fuel that will eventually win out. Again a local fork lift manufacturer is producing demand units that will run their lifts. The key is that they are used indoors where the water does not freeze. Nothing will happen until the oil companies figure out how to control and profit from the system. The world economies are so entertwined that they will all collapse at the same time. Any economic "infarction" today will make 1929 look like a picnic!! I personally blame king george and his minions. Unfortunately our fate is in the hands of countries who have at best, an intense dislike for us!!! I fear we are in for quite a ride.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Emmet 02-Jun-2008, 08:09 AM
I piped a wedding the other day where they'd hired a 1950 Chevrolet as a limo. It's 1950 Straight 6 engine gets about 18 MPG, about the same as an average American SUV today.

Keep in mind that (A) it takes more than a gallon of oil to create a gallon of ethanol (it uses more energy than it produces), and (cool.gif a tankful of ethanol is made from enough grain to feed one human being for a year. 9 million people starve to death annually. That's 25,000 people per day starving to death, 1041 an hour, 17 a minute, most of them children, all of them poor.

Something to think about the next time you fill your massive SUV and congratulate yourself for "going green" when the pump says "contains at least 10% ethanol".

Posted by: oldraven 02-Jun-2008, 01:33 PM
QUOTE (Emmet @ 02-Jun-2008, 07:09 AM)
I piped a wedding the other day where they'd hired a 1950 Chevrolet as a limo. It's 1950 Straight 6 engine gets about 18 MPG, about the same as an average American SUV today.

Keep in mind that (A) it takes more than a gallon of oil to create a gallon of ethanol (it uses more energy than it produces), and (cool.gif a tankful of ethanol is made from enough grain to feed one human being for a year. 9 million people starve to death annually. That's 25,000 people per day starving to death, 1041 an hour, 17 a minute, most of them children, all of them poor.

Something to think about the next time you fill your massive SUV and congratulate yourself for "going green" when the pump says "contains at least 10% ethanol".

There's a lot of misinformation going around on what Ethanol is, and how it is produced. Everything you just said about Ethanol is true, but only for one process using only Corn based feed-stocks. But this is simply the currently popular process of making Ethanol. There are many up and coming Ethanol (some refineries are under construction as we speak) which use zero food-stocks, and require no cultivation. So there is no food being taken from any mouths and no forest being lost to increased production.

Cellulosic Ethanol, holds very much promise, as it can be made from virtually any organic bio-waste (corn husks, wood chips, grasses, etc.) which would only be going to a landfill to begin with. It can be made for $1/US Gal., and the process of producing the fuel is far greener (fewer polutants and no deforestation required) than any of the current (petroleum, corn-ethanol) fuels on the market.

Brazil doesn't have a car on the road that burns less than 20% Ethanol, which is made very cheaply with Sugarcane, and 3 Million run on pure 100% Ethanol. Their people are not starving for it, and they have saved roughly $50 Billion in oil imports since their Ethanol program began in the 70's. Altogether, about 40% of their vehicle fuel is Ethanol.

Then there is Algae processed Ethanol. http://jalopnik.com/394479/sears-tower-or-bust-my-algae+powered-car-adventure
It uses algae, obviously, and photosynthesis to produce fuel. There are a couple of different technologies like this which use non food-stocks and sunlight to capture CO2 (making it a carbon neutral production process, which is supposedly unthinkable) for conversion to liquid fuel (one such process makes a fuel virtually identical to gasoline).

Bio fuel is the answer. Food for fuel just happens to have been a moronic gateway to the future.

Posted by: Patch 02-Jun-2008, 02:41 PM
QUOTE (Emmet @ 02-Jun-2008, 03:09 AM)
I piped a wedding the other day where they'd hired a 1950 Chevrolet as a limo. It's 1950 Straight 6 engine gets about 18 MPG, about the same as an average American SUV today.

Keep in mind that (A) it takes more than a gallon of oil to create a gallon of ethanol (it uses more energy than it produces), and (cool.gif a tankful of ethanol is made from enough grain to feed one human being for a year. 9 million people starve to death annually. That's 25,000 people per day starving to death, 1041 an hour, 17 a minute, most of them children, all of them poor.

Something to think about the next time you fill your massive SUV and congratulate yourself for "going green" when the pump says "contains at least 10% ethanol".

People do not think about those things. Ethanol will never be a viable alternative to hydrocarbon based fuel. The administration floated that idea to raise farm prices. (and maybe make some inside profits) That is of no assistance to the average citizen. It will soon cause food shortages in this country. "Soy diesel is not being used by many farmers due to the cost and that too compounds the food crisis. It causes one to wonder who's side our Government is on or if they are just STUPID. Hybrid electric cars will never solve the problem either. Oil can be extracted from coal too. The Navaho indian reservation has a tremendous reserve of coal.

I see hydrogen as the only alternative. People now think of hydrogen as a gas as in propane or natural gas. Though it could be accomplished in that manner it might cause some real calamities on the roadway. Service stations would have pump hydrogen into the vehicle's storage tank. Oil companies could control that! About 10 years ago I had an advertisement for a hydrogen generator that produced electricity, for your house "hydrogen gas" to heat your house and to fill a hydrogen tank in your auto for local use. There was an installation fee of about $15 K and a monthly fee as in rental.

We have a Fork Lift manufacturer, locally, who presently makes "Brown's Gas Gemerators" for their equipment. As an option one can have a Fork Lift that runs on hydrogen. They are "on demand" units (the ultimate in safety) and by hand making each one the cost is approximately $100 each. They feel that if the demand is great enough, they can be produced for less than a dollar. They only work in a warm environment or in a heated building though, as water freezes. I built one to play with and it produces a small extremely hot flame. I doubt you will see it commercially until the oil exec's find a way to profit from it.

NOW---FOR SOME BAD NEWS! as if the above was not enough.

In the news Sunday, the inflation rate for may was announced. It was only .2 percent. That is not too bad but, "ENERGY AND FOOD" were "STRIPPED" from the calculation. I can not strip those two items from my budget. I remember when "whole beef cuts (steak/roasts) were replaced by the same pork cuts, pork then was replaced by hamburger, hamburger then replaced by sausage, then chicken became the protein. Protein then became peanut butter. Now food isn't even in the mix at all! Personally as I look into the distance, I think I see the 4 horseman riding!

We have never seen mass starvation here in America (hunger yes) but outside of Canada and the UK, (if they are able) we should not expect much help.

I know this is depressing but we should all be planning for some tough times.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: MDF3530 02-Jun-2008, 02:54 PM
I've been watching some of the international news (one of our PBS stations gets BBC World News and the English-language Journal from DW-TV, the German state TV network), and even the big European banks are feeling the heat from the subprime mortgage crisis. Royal Bank of Scotland is in particular because they own Charter One here in the US. Others, like Deustche Bank, are feeling it because they agree to take on loans by other banks who are acting as middlemen.

P.S. It is quite astonishing that our family's former little community bank is now part of a multinational corporation. Our old community bank got bought out several years ago by one of the downtown Chicago banks. That bank then got bought out by then Cleveland-based Charter One. Charter One then got bought out by the Royal Bank of Scotland.

Posted by: oldraven 02-Jun-2008, 03:45 PM
There is a critical flaw in using Hydrogen as a fuel. It requires more energy to separate the Hydrogen from a molecule than it can produce as a fuel. Unless we have solar furnaces in every corner of the world, it will be a loss and that spells expensive, no matter how you see it. You thought $6/Gal. was scary. Then there's the incredible danger of storing and transporting Hydrogen. I'm just waiting for our first celebrity casualty, as his/her gifted Hydrogen 7 (BMW passes these out to celebs. all the time to get attention for their green technology) makes a 50' crater out of a stretch of Interstate. It is inevitable, as cars powered by gasoline and diesel catch fire and explode quite regularly. Hydrogen will be far from immune. It would be nice, but the nature of the fuel will never, in my lifetime, be cheap or safe.

You can't say "Ethanol will never be a viable alternative to hydrocarbon based fuel." as it already has been proven a viable alternative in other markets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

Please read that! It will give you facts on Ethanol use as a fuel, rather than generated fears for some campaign.

Remember, Corn does NOT equal Ethanol. It simply can.

What people fail to see about biofuel is that it is the same thing we are pulling out of the ground. Oil is just broken down biomass, and these new processes are simply doing the job that took nature 100,000+ years.

Every time you hear some new claim about how biofuels will be the end of the first world, ask why the naysayers never seem to mention how much energy and oil it takes just to pull petroleum out of the ground. On top of that, there are refining costs (energy cost and environmental cost), transportation costs, etc. I've heard the argument that wind power is the wrong choice because it takes X# of Gj to build the turbine in the first place. The funny thing is I don't seem to remember coal powered powerplants and oil refineries sprouting up out of the ground of their own accord.

When it comes to massive changes to industry and infrastructure, there will always be more people with the power to make the change who won't want it than there will be who do. wink.gif

Posted by: Patch 02-Jun-2008, 06:34 PM
QUOTE (MDF3530 @ 02-Jun-2008, 09:54 AM)
I've been watching some of the international news (one of our PBS stations gets BBC World News and the English-language Journal from DW-TV, the German state TV network), and even the big European banks are feeling the heat from the subprime mortgage crisis. Royal Bank of Scotland is in particular because they own Charter One here in the US. Others, like Deustche Bank, are feeling it because they agree to take on loans by other banks who are acting as middlemen.

P.S. It is quite astonishing that our family's former little community bank is now part of a multinational corporation. Our old community bank got bought out several years ago by one of the downtown Chicago banks. That bank then got bought out by then Cleveland-based Charter One. Charter One then got bought out by the Royal Bank of Scotland.

My daughter worked as an "Investment Counselor" for for 5th 3rd in Ohio. From conversations with her, they were lending in the sub prime market. They made the loans and then sold them to investment banks like Baer Sterns. Baer Sterns had no "accounts as in checking and savings and as near as I can tell was not covered by the FDIC insurance program. The government was under no obligation to protect their holdings with our tax dollars. However they negotiated a "take over" for two dollars a share to keep the bank afloat so to speak. The big stock holders of Baer Sterns screamed foul and the Government then backed the sale at TEN dollars a share. This mostly with your and my money!! As I see it, there were a lot of big political contributors invested in Baer Sterns, and they owned some politicians. I doubt that is the end of the crisis and we may not be hearing about what is going on with other similar banks now. People are "gambling" on everything. We call it Investment banking, the stock market and the futures market. It is like the "atmosphere" of the late 1920's. people were making thousands "on paper" and they thought the party would never end. The scary part is that we are back to gambling on a "margin", as was the case in the late 1920's. That is very dangerous!

When I first had bank dealings in the late 1950's all banks were local. My bank knew me , my family, what I had and most things about my personal life. Now as you say, we are all probably in one way or another connected to international banking.

It is easier to "scam" a bank today. We had one locally where the president of the bank took them for many many millions and invested in gambling boats. Many of the investors had over the FDIC maximum and lost a lot of money. A School district, some villages and businesses lost big time too. The president "rolled over on some of the people in organized crime where he invested the money and got his sentence reduced. His life may be interesting when he is released! We were better when the financial institutions were smaller. If someone at the bank suddenly found a financial wind fall people were looking at them.

I know some of the tellers at my bank and a branch manager. The president of the bank does not talk to me and I would not recognize him. He might if I belonged to the country club but that is out of my league.

I suspect we are headed for some "interesting times"

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 03-Jun-2008, 07:29 AM
http://www.leftlanenews.com/green-crude-fuel-of-the-future.html

There's the Algae based fuel I was telling you about, that uses wastewater, algae, and sunlight to produce a fuel from a natural carbon capture process that is virtually identical to gasoline (petrol). How ironic that it's green and burns identically to gas. cool.gif Looks like gasoline isn't the great evil it was thought to be; drilling for oil is.

Posted by: Patch 07-Jun-2008, 07:10 PM
I read the article and links and found no links to detailed information.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: stoirmeil 07-Jun-2008, 08:21 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 07-Jun-2008, 08:10 PM)
I read the article and links and found no links to detailed information.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

This stuff goes way back -- picking up technical articles on this topic from the beginning of the 80s. Picked this one up searching through Google Scholar (go through the advanced search button on your Google screen -- keywords "green algae fuel"). I can e-mail a link to the article to you if you are interested -- do you have an e-mail in your profile?

Microalgae: a green source of renewable H2

Maria L. Ghirardia, Liping Zhangb, James W. Leec, Timothy Flynna, Michael Seiberta, Elias Greenbaumc and Anastasios Melis, b

a National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Golden, CO 80401–3393, USA

b University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-3102, USA

c Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge, TN 37831-6194, USA


Available online 27 November 2000.

Abstract
This article summarizes recent advances in the field of algal hydrogen production. Two fundamental approaches are being developed. One involves the temporal separation of the usually incompatible reactions of O2 and H2 production in green algae, and the second involves the use of classical genetics to increase the O2 tolerance of the reversible hydrogenase enzyme. The economic and environmental impact of a renewable source of H2 are also discussed.

Author Keywords: biophotolysis; green algae; hydrogen production; photosynthesis; renewable energy; sulfur deprivation

Article Outline
2. Two-stage photosynthesis and H2 production in green algae
2.1. Anaerobiosis in C. reinhardtii cultures upon sulfur deprivation
2.2. Photoproduction of H2 upon S deprivation in C. reinhardtii
3. Single-stage photosynthesis and H2 production in green algae
4. Future prospects
Acknowledgements
References

Posted by: Patch 07-Jun-2008, 08:30 PM
Thank you I will read more

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 16-Jun-2008, 02:27 PM
I read in todays news that the price of corn passed $8.00 per hundred lb. shelled. The increase was attributed to flooding in the "corn belt" of the nation. That will just about wreck ethanol production.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 16-Jun-2008, 04:09 PM
Hydrogen from Algae. That's something different altogether. I was talking about what is essentially a non fossil-fuel petroleum product. I'm all for finding a replacement that doesn't require us to completely reinvent the automobile (the less that changes, the cheaper the cars).

I'm sceptical that there will ever be a sustainable Hydrogen industry. Sure, it hugs butterflies, and makes the sky invent a new shade of blue, but it's a terrible medium for storing energy, and I don't know how much we would be able to produce.

But there's room for all sorts of solutions to the problem. Every litre of Ethanol, biodiesel, bio-petrol, Hydrogen, etc., is one less litre of fossil-fuels needed to suply the world's energy needs.

Posted by: stoirmeil 16-Jun-2008, 07:20 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 16-Jun-2008, 05:09 PM)
Hydrogen from Algae. That's something different altogether. I was talking about what is essentially a non fossil-fuel petroleum product. . . .

But there's room for all sorts of solutions to the problem. Every litre of Ethanol, biodiesel, bio-petrol, Hydrogen, etc., is one less litre of fossil-fuels needed to suply the world's energy needs.

Are you sure it's not the same thing?

Anyway, I think you're correct that no one alternative to burning stored carbon is going to do it.

Posted by: oldraven 16-Jun-2008, 07:55 PM
Unless I'm confused, it's the difference between pure Hydrogen and a Hydrocarbon, like petroleum. I think it's time to give the claim of flex-fuel a push to mean a lot more than it does now. Some manufacturers are working on variable compression technology, and paired with today's engine controls, we could have cars that will adaptably run on anything. thumbs_up.gif

I can't wait to see what the next five years entails. I could probably due without the likely fuel prices in the mean time. wink.gif

Posted by: Patch 16-Jun-2008, 08:19 PM
"Stored" hydrogen will always be dangerous to some degree. We have a fork lift manufacturer in Northwest Ohio that is producing "demand" hydrogen generators for their fork lifts. They work on engines that are not exposed to sub freezing temps. I am certain that engineers could solve the freezing problem in short order. I put one together that produces a burnable gas. It would seem that with the proper pressure regulator one should be able to burn it in conjunction with other fuel and double or better your vehicle's gas milage. I can not attest to that yet. I would like to get a good used auto to experiment with.

Slàinte,   

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 17-Jun-2008, 06:18 AM
The issue with 'generating' Hydrogen is the losses incurred. The fork-lift would get more 'work' done using the electricity taken to generate the Hydrogen than the Hydrogen itself would allow by burning in the fork-lift. It's essentially wasting energy to give you a clean fuel to use indoors (this I see as Hydrogen's place in the future. A fuel that can be used in closed spaces that won't produce noxious fumes.). Meanwhile, a few miles away the power plant is burning coal to run the Hydrogen Generator.

I can't see it being commercially viable to run our cars and trucks (especially commercial trucks, knowing the drastic loss of power over hydrocarbons). You'd use a heck of a lot more Hydrogen to run your car, and knowing what we do about the energy costs of producing it, I can't see it being in any way cheaper than gasoline and diesel are now. We'd be setting ourselves back into the mid 20's (mpg) with our best fuel economy cars that today are getting in the upper 30's (hard to believe that we had cars in the 50's that made 50mpg+).

This is something I noticed with my truck, running it on propane. Sure, propane was cheap (unlike Hydrogen) at the time, but you do use about 20% more propane than you would gasoline, due to the power loss and the fact that you drive to compensate for that. With your foot to the floor. wink.gif

Posted by: Patch 17-Jun-2008, 08:21 AM
Actually, after a modest equipment investment and excluding sub freezing temps, a "demand" generator pretty much produces a free burnable hydrogen gas. How well it will work in an auto I can not say. It is burned WITH hydrocarbon fuel and according to the friend who is making the units as an employee of the fork lift company it will cut hydrocarbon usage by half or more.

With the floods in the corn belt ethanol just took a fatal hit. A few big distillers will survive but the bulk will fail due to extremely high grain prices.

If we do not act soon we will have mass hunger and economic calamity. If you want to see problems watch what happens then. Crime will be rampant! I just read in the print news that our grain reserves are gone.

We need to be deciding soon where our priorities lie. Is the welfare of humans more important than the welfare of animals, trees and scenery? I say yes!

Slàinte,    

Patch    


Posted by: stoirmeil 17-Jun-2008, 01:44 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 17-Jun-2008, 09:21 AM)
We need to be deciding soon where our priorities lie.  Is the welfare of  humans more important than the welfare of animals, trees and scenery?  I say yes!


Let me make sure I am reading this correctly. Are you referring to the ecosystem, of which our species is one intrinsic, small, and fragile moving part among millions, as "animals, trees and SCENERY"?! shocking.gif

I don't know if this discussion is going to tip me over into liberalism, but it may make a paleolithic, shamanic pagan of me yet. Dogshirt -- think I could use that drink. beer_mug.gif

Posted by: Dogshirt 17-Jun-2008, 03:59 PM
QUOTE
QUOTE (Patch @ 17-Jun-2008, 09:21 AM)
We need to be deciding soon where our priorities lie.  Is the welfare of  humans more important than the welfare of animals, trees and scenery?  I say yes!




Let me make sure I am reading this correctly. Are you referring to the ecosystem, of which our species is one intrinsic, small, and fragile moving part among millions, as "animals, trees and SCENERY"?!

I don't know if this discussion is going to tip me over into liberalism, but it may make a paleolithic, shamanic pagan of me yet. Dogshirt -- think I could use that drink. 



I'll take a tree or a wolf or a bear over most of the yuppie scum that has been moving into the county I live in! (Passing a bottle of GOOD scotch!)


beer_mug.gif


Posted by: Patch 17-Jun-2008, 05:07 PM
QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 17-Jun-2008, 10:59 AM)
QUOTE
QUOTE (Patch @ 17-Jun-2008, 09:21 AM)
We need to be deciding soon where our priorities lie.  Is the welfare of  humans more important than the welfare of animals, trees and scenery?  I say yes!




Let me make sure I am reading this correctly. Are you referring to the ecosystem, of which our species is one intrinsic, small, and fragile moving part among millions, as "animals, trees and SCENERY"?!

I don't know if this discussion is going to tip me over into liberalism, but it may make a paleolithic, shamanic pagan of me yet. Dogshirt -- think I could use that drink. 



I'll take a tree or a wolf or a bear over most of the yuppie scum that has been moving into the county I live in! (Passing a bottle of GOOD scotch!)


beer_mug.gif

I too know a lot of people who do not deserve the air they breathe and I like your taste in Whiskey! I do not want to see us follow in Hitler's foot steps. I figure I would end up on the "list" myself. I like my dog better that some people I know. I have spent a lot of time in the Colorado San Juan mountains, and remote areas of New Mexico,, Arizona and Wyoming. I would not like to see that destroyed but I want my children, grandchildren and their offspring to have decent lives. They are more important than animals and trees to me.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 18-Jun-2008, 12:14 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece

Here's another development. A genetically modified version of a non-pathogenic E. Coli bacteria is now producing CRUDE OIL!

“I mean, this is essentially agriculture, right? But the people I talk to – especially the ones coming out of business school – this is the one hot area everyone wants to get into.”

He means bugs. To be more precise: the genetic alteration of bugs – very, very small ones – so that when they feed on agricultural waste such as woodchips or wheat straw, they do something extraordinary. They excrete crude oil.


---

What is most remarkable about what they are doing is that instead of trying to reengineer the global economy – as is required, for example, for the use of hydrogen fuel – they are trying to make a product that is interchangeable with oil. The company claims that this “Oil 2.0” will not only be renewable but also carbon negative – meaning that the carbon it emits will be less than that sucked from the atmosphere by the raw materials from which it is made.

Yes, 1 barrel a week from vat with a 40ft/sq. base is not exactly high volume, but every little bit counts.

---

Because crude oil (which can be refined into other products, such as petroleum or jet fuel) is only a few molecular stages removed from the fatty acids normally excreted by yeast or E. coli during fermentation, it does not take much fiddling to get the desired result.

Posted by: Patch 18-Jun-2008, 12:55 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 18-Jun-2008, 07:14 AM)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece

Here's another development. A genetically modified version of a non-pathogenic E. Coli bacteria is now producing CRUDE OIL!

“I mean, this is essentially agriculture, right? But the people I talk to – especially the ones coming out of business school – this is the one hot area everyone wants to get into.”

He means bugs. To be more precise: the genetic alteration of bugs – very, very small ones – so that when they feed on agricultural waste such as woodchips or wheat straw, they do something extraordinary. They excrete crude oil.


---

What is most remarkable about what they are doing is that instead of trying to reengineer the global economy – as is required, for example, for the use of hydrogen fuel – they are trying to make a product that is interchangeable with oil. The company claims that this “Oil 2.0” will not only be renewable but also carbon negative – meaning that the carbon it emits will be less than that sucked from the atmosphere by the raw materials from which it is made.

Yes, 1 barrel a week from vat with a 40ft/sq. base is not exactly high volume, but every little bit counts.

---

Because crude oil (which can be refined into other products, such as petroleum or jet fuel) is only a few molecular stages removed from the fatty acids normally excreted by yeast or E. coli during fermentation, it does not take much fiddling to get the desired result.

I still think that "hydrogen Demand Generators" are the answer. They work WITH hydrocarbon fuels. A complete switch to hydrogen is not realistic in the short term. Ethanol and electric are not viable either. The biggest myth is an oil shortage. We have more located reserves today than we have ever had. Remember the GREAT sugar, coffee and Toilet Paper shortages? "Now you know" I suspect!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: stoirmeil 18-Jun-2008, 12:55 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 18-Jun-2008, 01:14 PM)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece

Here's another development. A genetically modified version of a non-pathogenic E. Coli bacteria is now producing CRUDE OIL!

“I mean, this is essentially agriculture, right? But the people I talk to – especially the ones coming out of business school – this is the one hot area everyone wants to get into.”

He means bugs. To be more precise: the genetic alteration of bugs – very, very small ones – so that when they feed on agricultural waste such as woodchips or wheat straw, they do something extraordinary. They excrete crude oil.


---

What is most remarkable about what they are doing is that instead of trying to reengineer the global economy – as is required, for example, for the use of hydrogen fuel – they are trying to make a product that is interchangeable with oil. The company claims that this “Oil 2.0” will not only be renewable but also carbon negative – meaning that the carbon it emits will be less than that sucked from the atmosphere by the raw materials from which it is made.

Yes, 1 barrel a week from vat with a 40ft/sq. base is not exactly high volume, but every little bit counts.

---

Because crude oil (which can be refined into other products, such as petroleum or jet fuel) is only a few molecular stages removed from the fatty acids normally excreted by yeast or E. coli during fermentation, it does not take much fiddling to get the desired result.

Mmmmm . . .

But can you keep the little booger nonpathogenic once you have modified him and then his generations start to modify themselves? And will he be irrelevant to the human system, because he has been tailored to subsist on cellulose, and so harmless -- or one of those things that triggers an allmighty fatal purging reaction in the human gut (because the booger will get out and naturalize himself, be sure of it) along the lines of typhus or cholera, just because he's alien?

Posted by: Patch 19-Jun-2008, 04:45 AM
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 18-Jun-2008, 07:55 AM)
QUOTE (oldraven @ 18-Jun-2008, 01:14 PM)
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4133668.ece

Here's another development. A genetically modified version of a non-pathogenic E. Coli bacteria is now producing CRUDE OIL!

“I mean, this is essentially agriculture, right? But the people I talk to – especially the ones coming out of business school – this is the one hot area everyone wants to get into.”

He means bugs. To be more precise: the genetic alteration of bugs – very, very small ones – so that when they feed on agricultural waste such as woodchips or wheat straw, they do something extraordinary. They excrete crude oil.


---

What is most remarkable about what they are doing is that instead of trying to reengineer the global economy – as is required, for example, for the use of hydrogen fuel – they are trying to make a product that is interchangeable with oil. The company claims that this “Oil 2.0” will not only be renewable but also carbon negative – meaning that the carbon it emits will be less than that sucked from the atmosphere by the raw materials from which it is made.

Yes, 1 barrel a week from vat with a 40ft/sq. base is not exactly high volume, but every little bit counts.

---

Because crude oil (which can be refined into other products, such as petroleum or jet fuel) is only a few molecular stages removed from the fatty acids normally excreted by yeast or E. coli during fermentation, it does not take much fiddling to get the desired result.

Mmmmm . . .

But can you keep the little booger nonpathogenic once you have modified him and then his generations start to modify themselves? And will he be irrelevant to the human system, because he has been tailored to subsist on cellulose, and so harmless -- or one of those things that triggers an allmighty fatal purging reaction in the human gut (because the booger will get out and naturalize himself, be sure of it) along the lines of typhus or cholera, just because he's alien?

My personal feeling is that "genetic modification" in any thing is playing with fire. Just because we can does not mean we should!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 19-Jun-2008, 04:56 AM
I just heard on this morning's early news that congress is prepared to move on off shore drilling in the gulf and off the Pacific coast. It seems that after all their past rhetoric, the oil industry spokesmen now have turned 180 degrees and are opposed to the idea. The industry now says doing so will only produce eight million barrels a year and will have little or no effect on energy prices. I smell a RAT!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 19-Jun-2008, 05:05 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Jun-2008, 11:56 PM)
I just heard on this morning's early news that congress is prepared to move on off shore drilling in the gulf and off the Pacific coast. It seems that after all their past rhetoric, the oil industry spokesmen now have turned 180 degrees and are opposed to the idea. The industry now says doing so will only produce eight million barrels a year and will have little or no effect on energy prices. I smell a RAT!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

They just corrected the output to 6 to 8 Billion barrels a year. Still no price reductions!?

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 19-Jun-2008, 06:29 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Jun-2008, 11:55 AM)
I still think that "hydrogen Demand Generators" are the answer. They work WITH hydrocarbon fuels. A complete switch to hydrogen is not realistic in the short term. Ethanol and electric are not viable either. The biggest myth is an oil shortage. We have more located reserves today than we have ever had. Remember the GREAT sugar, coffee and Toilet Paper shortages? "Now you know" I suspect!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

One of the biggest issues we have in coming up with an alternative fuel solution is the fact that everyone is looking for 'The Answer', when we should be looking for 'An Answer, to go along with the Other Answers'. Trying to find the one fuel that will release us from oil will just put us back in a position where we're dependant on one source again. We need to have options of at least five mainstream forms of energy storage, so if one supply goes belly up, we won't be facing another recession.

Electric is very viable, though batteries aren't yet. Electric propulsion is probably the most efficient way of getting anything done, if only storage wasn't an issue. Like I said before, Ethanol is very viable as well. Just ask the Brazilians. The idea of using Hydrogen as an economy booster (it had better save enough fuel to cover the cost the unit and electricity used to produce the gas) is a good one as well. I haven't heard much about this, other than the kids on local Car Club boards asking about doing an HHO conversion for their cars.

I can't help but be skeptical about it, since so many car companies are doing H2 Fuel Cell research (Honda has just started producing the pure H2 burning FCX Clarity for consumer lease) but none of added a Hydrogen tank to their cars to try and save themselves from the CAFE monster. Why would they have to stop building full-size trucks (the only remaining money-maker for domestics) at their high volumes if there was such a simple solution?

As for oil, the problem isn't supply anymore, it's ease of extraction. We're pretty much to the point where there is no Clampett-Easy Oil left. We need to end our affair with oil before it sinks us all.

Posted by: Patch 19-Jun-2008, 06:32 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 19-Jun-2008, 12:05 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 18-Jun-2008, 11:56 PM)
I just heard on this morning's early news that congress is prepared to move on off shore drilling in the gulf and off the Pacific coast.  It seems that after all their past rhetoric, the oil industry spokesmen now have turned 180 degrees and are opposed to the idea.  The industry now says doing so will only produce eight million barrels a year and will have little or no effect on energy prices.  I smell a RAT!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

They just corrected the output to 6 to 8 Billion barrels a year. Still no price reductions!?

Slàinte,    

Patch    

I read in Mother Earth News magazine some years ago that in a rural setting one could get a federal permit to operate a distillery to produce alcohol for non human consumption. I do not remember what all the restrictions were but remember the key to making it economical was to use wood for the distilling process. The use of oil products made it too costly as is the situation today. I will look as the articles could be available on line still. Were someone be able to raise the grain, and have a wood lot of sufficient size to provide energy for the distilling process one could make ones own ethanol. You would have to get pretty close to 100% alcahol in the final product for it to work. (You might even be able to slip a pint or two out for personal testing if your still was "safe.") There are plans available on the net for building a still.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 19-Jun-2008, 06:36 AM
So Bush is now blaming the democrats for the cost of oil, because they won’t allow the oil companies to drill off shore and in Anwar.
Well if anyone is to blame for the high cost of oil, and global worming for that matter. It would be the republicans and Ron Reagan, who made a deal with Iran to keep holding the hostages, until he won the white house, and for overturning Jimmy Carters plan, for us to kick our oil habit, by perusing clean renewable power, by the year 2020.

This guy has to go, now!

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 19-Jun-2008, 08:17 AM
C-Span live last nite was interesting. A chart of oil drilling permits, wells drilled and the price of gas, all graphed on one chart.
The price of gas climbed regardless of permits and wells drilled.
In fact there are now more permits issued than wells drilled because the oil companies have no desire to drill at anywhere near their capabilities, nor are they willing to invest in the difficult extractions, even when they did drill to the full complement of permits, oil prices still did not drop, but climbed continously.
Then with refineries, even when there was a 50% tax credit to build them , the major oil companies refused and stated they had no interest in building refineries. The ROI wasn't there. Todays refineries are currently running at 80 t0 88% of capacity and again the oil companies say they have no interest in increasing capacity.

Reasons: the Return On Investment is far greater to do nothing than to put their money into oil drilling and refineries. They make far more money operating like they do than by any other means. Remember, corporations are in the business of making money. The most efficient way to make money and increase profits is to continue to function as they do. How many Mobil-Exxon stockholders are screaming at them to put their profits into non-profit making ventures?

Answers: there is no one answer, though that is the the current public policy approach. OldRaven covered this.

Other shames: Oil companies claiming to be "Going Green" in all their commercials ,Citgo, BP, Shell. What a joke. I forget what Mobil-Exxons total income was, but we all know their profits were 40 billion last year. Out of just their profits, the total investment in alternative energy was 10 million.
With the current policy of oil being an unregulated public commodity, oil companies have absolutely no reason to look elsewhere for profits.

Oil is not an open market product, oil prices are not ruled by the supply and demand model as stated by the oil companies to Congress. Oil is a limited, controlled source supply and limited distribution channels with a fixed growth demand.

USN king.gif beer_mug.gif note.gif thumbs_up.gif Vote for me

Posted by: Patch 19-Jun-2008, 09:21 AM
Ex-Bear Stearns managers arrested at their homes
By TOM HAYS, Associated Press Writer
39 minutes ago

I do not have the complete story yet

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 19-Jun-2008, 09:37 AM
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 19-Jun-2008, 03:17 AM)
C-Span live last nite was interesting. A chart of oil drilling permits, wells drilled and the price of gas, all graphed on one chart.
The price of gas climbed regardless of permits and wells drilled.
In fact there are now more permits issued than wells drilled because the oil companies have no desire to drill at anywhere near their capabilities, nor are they willing to invest in the difficult extractions, even when they did drill to the full complement of permits, oil prices still did not drop, but climbed continously.
Then with refineries, even when there was a 50% tax credit to build them , the major oil companies refused and stated they had no interest in building refineries. The ROI wasn't there. Todays refineries are currently running at 80 t0 88% of capacity and again the oil companies say they have no interest in increasing capacity.

Reasons: the Return On Investment is far greater to do nothing than to put their money into oil drilling and refineries. They make far more money operating like they do than by any other means. Remember, corporations are in the business of making money. The most efficient way to make money and increase profits is to continue to function as they do. How many Mobil-Exxon stockholders are screaming at them to put their profits into non-profit making ventures?

Answers: there is no one answer, though that is the the current public policy approach. OldRaven covered this.

Other shames: Oil companies claiming to be "Going Green" in all their commercials ,Citgo, BP, Shell. What a joke. I forget what Mobil-Exxons total income was, but we all know their profits were 40 billion last year. Out of just their profits, the total investment in alternative energy was 10 million.
With the current policy of oil being an unregulated public commodity, oil companies have absolutely no reason to look elsewhere for profits.

Oil is not an open market product, oil prices are not ruled by the supply and demand model as stated by the oil companies to Congress. Oil is a limited, controlled source supply and limited distribution channels with a fixed growth demand.

USN king.gif beer_mug.gif note.gif thumbsup.gif Vote for me

I have pegged the problem all along as being the oil industry. No one, including the government, will solve it. It is up to US. The previous Baer Stearns Executive arrests as report on AP wire service 45 min ago are the kind of things that will shake the system up. The oil Execs lied to the House and Senate when they testified under oath that the profits were justified as they were being reinvested in exploration. I am not brilliant but I know in my little Photography business, if I buy a piece of equipment or new technology with my profits, that portion is no longer profit.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 19-Jun-2008, 03:16 PM
Question, why didn't Bush drill for oil off shore and else where in the states, when the republicans had controle of the white house, and congress? My guess is, because it was much easier to steal it, at the cost of our rights and the blood of young Americans.

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 19-Jun-2008, 04:47 PM
There is no short term answer to this oil price issue. Heck, last month Congress stopped diverting oil to the strategic oil reserves and Bush agreed , yet oil prices did not go down, they went up! And as long as Congress insists on grandstanding and playing partisan answer politics, knowing full well neither party will get any results for the near term, this issue will persist. They are just looking to play the game of "see what we are trying to do for you, but they won't let us". Election year rhetoric just produces theatrics for the gullible publics consumption.

Posted by: Patch 20-Jun-2008, 10:49 AM
<Q> John Clements & UlsterScotNutt


The last two posts display tremendous insight into the cause of our problems. We may have to wait on History to tell us exactly why it happened.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 20-Jun-2008, 04:30 PM
Has anyone done the math to the volume of wealth that is being transferred from the working class to the wealthy? IT IS PHENOMENAL!!!

Posted by: Patch 20-Jun-2008, 04:37 PM
I suspect that when the dust has settled there will be no middle class.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 21-Jun-2008, 07:16 AM
Patch;

McCain was up here in Ottawa yesterday giving a speech to The Economic Club Of Canada. At one juncture in his ramblings he advocated the "Harmonization of Energy Policies". As Canada is the largest supplier of energy to the U.S. what that means to most Canadians is "GIVE US MORE". More Oil, more Natural Gas, more Electricity, and by the way we will also take your Water.Some times it seems to us in the North that all that we are is a "Smorgasborg" for the states.



Camac.

Posted by: Patch 21-Jun-2008, 12:51 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 21-Jun-2008, 02:16 AM)
Patch;

McCain was up here in Ottawa yesterday giving a speech to The Economic Club Of Canada. At one juncture in his ramblings he advocated the "Harmonization of Energy Policies". As Canada is the largest supplier of energy to the U.S. what that means to most Canadians is "GIVE US MORE". More Oil, more Natural Gas, more Electricity, and by the way we will also take your Water.Some times it seems to us in the North that all that we are is a "Smorgasborg" for the states.



Camac.

We got no coverage of that trip at all. That is the policy of our representatives. Use all others reserves first. I have been contacting my representative and senators expressing my opposition to piping water from the great lakes to our South and West. The water is jointly owned and there is no way we could divide it by ownership. China's one child policy is almost a necessity but will never happen here. Along those same lines, the lack of water in Georgia is due to the fact it is being used by Florida. (an extreme concentration of people) In the West and Southwest water was "gold". Water rights were purchased years ago and belonged to the land owner. People were killed for trying to steal water. We could again have civil wars over water. It is a necessary item of survival.

Slàinte,    

Patch

"Love your Country but never trust your Government!"

Posted by: Camac 21-Jun-2008, 01:39 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 21-Jun-2008, 01:51 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 21-Jun-2008, 02:16 AM)
Patch;

McCain was up here in Ottawa yesterday giving a speech to The Economic Club Of Canada. At one juncture in his ramblings he advocated the "Harmonization of Energy Policies". As Canada is the largest supplier of energy to the U.S. what that means to most Canadians is "GIVE US MORE". More Oil, more Natural Gas, more Electricity, and by the way we will also take your Water.Some times it seems to us in the North that all that we are is a "Smorgasborg" for the states.



Camac.

We got no coverage of that trip at all. That is the policy of our representatives. Use all others reserves first. I have been contacting my representative and senators expressing my opposition to piping water from the great lakes to our South and West. The water is jointly owned and there is no way we could divide it by ownership. China's one child policy is almost a necessity but will never happen here. Along those same lines, the lack of water in Georgia is due to the fact it is being used by Florida. (an extreme concentration of people) In the West and Southwest water was "gold". Water rights were purchased years ago and belonged to the land owner. People were killed for trying to steal water. We could again have civil wars over water. It is a necessary item of survival.

Slàinte,    

Patch

"Love your Country but never trust your Government!"

Patch;

I can't remember who said it but it was stated that " Just as the majority of Wars to-day are being fought over oil, in the future Wars will be waged over Water."


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 21-Jun-2008, 02:55 PM
I saw that quoted a week or two ago. You can survive without food for a month or more. Lack of hydration will remove one from the picture in days. Mexico I believe is already complaining that we are not following water treaties.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: dcampbellmcarthur 21-Jun-2008, 03:31 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 21-Jun-2008, 03:55 PM)
I saw that quoted a week or two ago. You can survive without food for a month or more. Lack of hydration will remove one from the picture in days. Mexico I believe is already complaining that we are not following water treaties.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

I am not really up on it and will have to do some more research but if I'm correct there are clause in NAFTA governing the trade of water.


Camac.

Posted by: Camac 21-Jun-2008, 03:45 PM
How did I end up becoming dcampbellmcarthur?


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 21-Jun-2008, 04:38 PM
QUOTE (dcampbellmcarthur @ 21-Jun-2008, 10:31 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 21-Jun-2008, 03:55 PM)
I saw that quoted a week or two ago.  You can survive without food for a month or more.  Lack of hydration will remove one from the picture in days.  Mexico I believe is already complaining that we are not following water treaties.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

I am not really up on it and will have to do some more research but if I'm correct there are clause in NAFTA governing the trade of water.


Camac.

As I recall the complaint was, that too much water was being diverted to California.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 21-Jun-2008, 07:57 PM
Patch;

Methinks that people do not realize that water is not a renewable resource. All the water that ever was or ever will be has been here from the beginning and is just recycled.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 21-Jun-2008, 08:41 PM
We have billions of people competing for it today and we keep reproducing. I suspect that is why "sink holes" appear in heavily populated areas that rely heavily on pumping underground water. Where I live our water comes from rainwater runoff which includes agricultural pesticides and herbicides with a liberal serving of animal waste from mega dairy and hog farms. It is sweetened ever so slightly with waste bypassing the septic systems of homes built in rural areas to "get out of town!" We get regular notifications of noncompliance and people wonder why. I refuse to drink it and would not shower in it if there were another way. I drink only water that has been through three different treatment processes. If you read the labels, some water is labeled as tap water and the water supply is names. The other is "spring" water. Springs tend to have multiple outlets and animals drown in springs. Sorry if I ruined someones favorite water.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 22-Jun-2008, 12:26 PM
We have several springs around here, some are free water sources and some are private and charge, typically 50 cents a gallon. All these springs are under mandated water testing on a daily basis.
I miss our old deep water artesian well, pure, clean, no contaminates just good water.
Water or lack of, on other continents has already caused strife and misery for many and the Sates has its fair share of water issues.
AquaFina is straight out of the Great Lakes, I forget which one, MIchigan, I think. We have several local Premium bottled waters that are straight out of municipal water supply reservoirs, like Ice Mountain, from the Waterbury reservoir.
There have been issues about wanting to tax the commercial use of municipal water supplies.

Posted by: Camac 22-Jun-2008, 01:17 PM
USN;

We have had quite a few reports done here in Ontario about water and with the exception of the Waterton Incident (Where due to incompetance bovine feces entered the water system and alot of townsfolk got ill and a few died. The individuals responsible (two brothers) in charge of the water supply were arrested and tried and convicted) the reports found that the vast majority of municipal water was just as safe if not safer than bottled water. Certainly it was cheaper.Here in Southern Ontario and I assume Northern New York State the drinking water comes right out of Lake Ontario, Erie.and Huron.


Camac.



Posted by: Patch 22-Jun-2008, 05:51 PM
My small area has Mega dairy farms (ave 2000 cows each), Mega hog farms (unknown numbers) and a turkey farm. They produce more waste than the land can carry. We have a "spill" being investigated now (hog manure) and they are in the process off counting dead fish. This is the 5'th one in a year and a half. My Son lives outside of town and his well water (just one of many others) is contaminated. They finally determined that the water, not the well is contaminated. All of the spills and the waste spread on fields eventually ends up in the ground water. In chasing the dollar we have allowed the farm industry to contaminate our water.

We only get notification when the Federal inspectors are present for the test.

I buy only water treated with Carbon Filtration, Reverse Osmosis and UV light. With our extremely high cancer rates and the incidence of high autoimmune disease rates I refuse to drink anything but treated water.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 23-Jun-2008, 09:40 AM
Patch, Yikes, I don't blame you, thats alot of contamination!!!!

Buying bottled water is ridiculous unless you have serious issues like Patch, or perhaps too much money or have been pulled into this huge marketing scheme.
I suppose there may be other reasons.

Here in CT, we just had a 10,000 gallon gasoline disappearence into the ground. Big concerns as to its effect on ground water supplies.

When I was in Venezuela in the 70's doing some social economic development work, the locals would dig a hole for drinking water and 2 feet over from it they would dig a hole for washing clothes in and when you explained that the water was contaminated from the washing, they would point out, don't be silly, its from a different hole.
USN

Posted by: Patch 23-Jun-2008, 10:33 AM
I can get fully treated water for 49 cents a gallon. I give it to my dog too. There are areas of the country where the water is still clean, Ours could be but for greed.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 23-Jun-2008, 12:00 PM
Where do you suppose all those pesticides, and herbicides, that farmers have been using, (for god knows how long), have been going? You got it, in us!

I can’t thing of a better reason for a strong, “hones” government, not even terrorism!

Boy, am I thirsty,
JC

Posted by: stoirmeil 23-Jun-2008, 12:15 PM
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 23-Jun-2008, 10:40 AM)
Here in CT, we just had a 10,000 gallon gasoline disappearence into the ground. Big concerns as to its effect on ground water supplies.


shocking.gif

DISAPPEARANCE!!???
Where did it come from? How did it get out?

I've heard about the comtamination around hog farms. It's shocking -- I never understood why those standing pools were thought to be adequate, containment without treatment. Looks like "primitive" people in Venezuela aren't the only ones who think holes in the ground are impermeable containers.

I'm still drinking New York City tap water. I think it's OK.

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 23-Jun-2008, 12:35 PM
A large underground storage tank at a BP gas center in Cheshire, CT. At first it was supposedly a very small amount, now it is up to 10,000 gallons. The DEP is monitoring the situation and they have not determined the cause nor the whereabouts of the unaccounted for gasoline. Very little other information is being released.

Posted by: Patch 23-Jun-2008, 04:56 PM
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 23-Jun-2008, 07:15 AM)
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 23-Jun-2008, 10:40 AM)
Here in CT, we just had a 10,000 gallon gasoline disappearence into the ground. Big concerns as to its effect on ground water supplies.


shocking.gif

DISAPPEARANCE!!???
Where did it come from? How did it get out?

I've heard about the comtamination around hog farms. It's shocking -- I never understood why those standing pools were thought to be adequate, containment without treatment. Looks like "primitive" people in Venezuela aren't the only ones who think holes in the ground are impermeable containers.

I'm still drinking New York City tap water. I think it's OK.

Like everything else the fuel will show up. The problem with mega animal operations is they do not stop producing waste when the containment ponds get full. Also the waste is spread on farm land and it either leaches into the water supply or runs off into water courses. The other problem is that animals die and the disposal problem is solved by composting. Does anyone want that in their water. The animals in my county alone would require a treatment plant adequate to handle at least 100,000 people. This is happening all over the midwest. I am going to post an idea under Multiple Sclerosis about chemicals which may be something to think about. I can shed some light on the contamination of tomatos, lettuce and strawberries too.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 23-Jun-2008, 05:00 PM
I just saw that George Carlin died last night. I liked his philosophy!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 23-Jun-2008, 06:56 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 23-Jun-2008, 06:00 PM)
I just saw that George Carlin died last night. I liked his philosophy!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

He was real cool. As to his seven words you can't say on TV , we hear that and more on Canadian TV all the time.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 23-Jun-2008, 07:07 PM
His take on life was a favorite with me. His humor and the "Maxine" cartoons. There should be a lot of CD's of his stand up routines on the market soon.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 24-Jun-2008, 05:20 AM
Yeah, the guy pioneered intelligent comedy, in my opinion. It's sad to see him go so young.





Yes, at 29 I still see 71 as too young to go.

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 24-Jun-2008, 06:50 AM
George Carlin was a funny funny insightful man.

Posted by: Patch 24-Jun-2008, 08:30 AM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 24-Jun-2008, 12:20 AM)
Yeah, the guy pioneered intelligent comedy, in my opinion. It's sad to see him go so young.





Yes, at 29 I still see 71 as too young to go.

What do you suppose it looks like from my perspective? (66)

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 24-Jun-2008, 08:56 AM
I’m sorry to say that I missed Carlin just two weeks ago. When he was appearing at a theater in my town, by the time I got around to getting some tickets, all the reasonably priced tickets were gone, and so I decided to catch him the next time around,(so much for waiting). So now that makes two greats ones that I missed seeing live: Joplin, and Carlin, although I am glad to say that I did get to see Hendrix at the Pillmore East, on New Years Eve.

Posted by: Patch 24-Jun-2008, 09:35 AM
I have two of Carlin's Routines on VHS. I plan to buy them on DVD as they hit the market.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 27-Jun-2008, 09:02 AM
I see the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Second Amendment , of sorts. I suspect every sizeable city in the us will have litigation soon. It only took hours for a suit to be filed in Chicago. The Attorneys will eat well for a couple of years.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 27-Jun-2008, 09:49 AM
and again the court was split 5-4. This was the first test of the amendment since 1796 or some year as such. Most laws will remain on the books, just not blanket bannings of handguns. Restrictions still remain as they should.

Posted by: Patch 27-Jun-2008, 10:03 AM
I have one major problem with one of the restrictions. That would be with bush and the new background check law in January! With the stroke of a pen he removed the right to bear arms from tens of thousands of Honorably discharged Military veterans. This when he avoided military service as a sniveling little coward himself! Cheney was no better, a draft dodger, and he shot a hunting partner. Here, one would loose the right to hunt permanently, at least, for an act of that nature!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 27-Jun-2008, 10:08 AM
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 27-Jun-2008, 04:49 AM)
and again the court was split 5-4. This was the first test of the amendment since 1796 or some year as such. Most laws will remain on the books, just not blanket bannings of handguns. Restrictions still remain as they should.

Sometime in the 40's, I think, they determined the second amendment didn't cover sawed off shot guns and machine guns. Speaking of machine guns, did you see where Blackwater was caught as the "straw buyer of 140 plus illegal machine guns for a non permitted agency? It happened somewhere in the south.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 27-Jun-2008, 10:14 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 27-Jun-2008, 11:03 AM)
I have one major problem with one of the restrictions. That would be with bush and the new background check law in January! With the stroke of a pen he removed the right to bear arms from tens of thousands of Honorably discharged Military veterans. This when he avoided military service as a sniveling little coward himself! Cheney was no better, a draft dodger, and he shot a hunting partner. Here, one would loose the right to hunt permanently, at least, for an act of that nature!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

I am not familiar with that restriction , on former military being banned from gun ownership.
GWB did serve in the military.
Cheney was definitely on shaky ground when he draft dodged.
The shear act of negligence in that accident should take away your hunting license. The act of not reporting it til much later should have put him in jail, at least overnight and a permanent loss of any gun carrying priveliges.
USN

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 27-Jun-2008, 10:17 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 27-Jun-2008, 11:08 AM)
Sometime in the 40's, I think, they determined the second amendment didn't cover sawed off shot guns and machine guns. Speaking of machine guns, did you see where Blackwater was caught as the "straw buyer of 140 plus illegal machine guns for a non permitted agency? It happened somewhere in the south.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

This is the first time the court addressed and stated that individuals have the right to possess guns, outside of any state militia. All other court cases with regards to the 2nd have adressed types of weapons.

WAR is a Racket.

USN

Posted by: Patch 28-Jun-2008, 04:38 AM
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 27-Jun-2008, 05:14 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 27-Jun-2008, 11:03 AM)
I have one major problem with one of the restrictions.  That would be with bush and the new background check law in January!  With the stroke of a pen he removed the right to bear arms from tens of thousands of Honorably discharged Military veterans.  This when he avoided military service as a sniveling little coward himself!  Cheney was no better, a draft dodger, and he shot a hunting partner.  Here, one would loose the right to hunt permanently, at least, for an act of that nature! 

Slàinte,    

Patch    

I am not familiar with that restriction , on former military being banned from gun ownership.
GWB did serve in the military.
Cheney was definitely on shaky ground when he draft dodged.
The shear act of negligence in that accident should take away your hunting license. The act of not reporting it til much later should have put him in jail, at least overnight and a permanent loss of any gun carrying priveliges.
USN

Yes, war is a racket, and more often than not it is fought for the wrong reasons!

Any military who were treated by a psychologist for post traumatic stress syndrome fell under the "mental illness" portion of the January "08" changes in the background check law. True mental illness is one thing but having only "talked with a mental health professional makes a service person unable to own firearms.

In reality, the bush family got junior moved from one guard unit to another when it appeared his first unit would be activated. Then they got him out of the Air Guard to help with a distant and obscure relative's election campaign in another state when the second unit looked like it could be deployed. When the time came to return to the guard he refused to report for his flight physical as ORDERED (with no repercussions) and was discharged from the Guard, again, with no reprecussions. There has been a lot speculation as to why he wouldn't do the physical. There is not a doubt in my mind re: what would have happened to me or my friends had we disobeyed orders of any kind in the Military! I do not call what bush did, "service in the military." He is just slightly better than cheney!

That is why I feel he has no right to command the nations military and send any of America's young men and women into harm's way!

Slàinte,   

 Patch    


Posted by: Patch 28-Jun-2008, 08:51 AM
I hust read in the news that in the next "few" years as gasoline reaches $7.00 a gallon (heaven forbid) there will be 10 million fewer automobiles being owned/driven. I wonder how people will get to work?

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 28-Jun-2008, 10:43 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 09:51 AM)
I hust read in the news that in the next "few" years as gasoline reaches $7.00 a gallon (heaven forbid) there will be 10 million fewer automobiles being owned/driven. I wonder how people will get to work?

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Work! What work?

Sorry,
JC

Posted by: Patch 28-Jun-2008, 10:53 AM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 28-Jun-2008, 05:43 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 09:51 AM)
I hust read in the news that in the next "few" years as gasoline reaches $7.00 a gallon (heaven forbid) there will be 10 million fewer automobiles being owned/driven.  I wonder how people will get to work?

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Work! What work?

Sorry,
JC

It will not be long and there will be no work where I live. At $7.00 a gallon for gas all other expenses may go up so much that My retirement will not allow me to live here!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: maisky 28-Jun-2008, 11:08 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 10:53 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 28-Jun-2008, 05:43 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 09:51 AM)
I hust read in the news that in the next "few" years as gasoline reaches $7.00 a gallon (heaven forbid) there will be 10 million fewer automobiles being owned/driven.  I wonder how people will get to work?

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Work! What work?

Sorry,
JC

It will not be long and there will be no work where I live. At $7.00 a gallon for gas all other expenses may go up so much that My retirement will not allow me to live here!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

at $7 per gallon, I will continue to work for another 20 years, or until I die. At $7 a gallon for gas, I wont be able to afford to retire. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: John Clements 28-Jun-2008, 11:14 AM
QUOTE (maisky @ 28-Jun-2008, 12:08 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 10:53 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 28-Jun-2008, 05:43 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 09:51 AM)
I hust read in the news that in the next "few" years as gasoline reaches $7.00 a gallon (heaven forbid) there will be 10 million fewer automobiles being owned/driven.  I wonder how people will get to work?

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Work! What work?

Sorry,
JC

It will not be long and there will be no work where I live. At $7.00 a gallon for gas all other expenses may go up so much that My retirement will not allow me to live here!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

at $7 per gallon, I will continue to work for another 20 years, or until I die. At $7 a gallon for gas, I wont be able to afford to retire. rolleyes.gif

Retire! What's that?

Sorry again,
JC

Posted by: Patch 28-Jun-2008, 12:24 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 28-Jun-2008, 06:14 AM)
QUOTE (maisky @ 28-Jun-2008, 12:08 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 10:53 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 28-Jun-2008, 05:43 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 09:51 AM)
I hust read in the news that in the next "few" years as gasoline reaches $7.00 a gallon (heaven forbid) there will be 10 million fewer automobiles being owned/driven.  I wonder how people will get to work?

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Work! What work?

Sorry,
JC

It will not be long and there will be no work where I live. At $7.00 a gallon for gas all other expenses may go up so much that My retirement will not allow me to live here!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

at $7 per gallon, I will continue to work for another 20 years, or until I die. At $7 a gallon for gas, I wont be able to afford to retire. rolleyes.gif

Retire! What's that?

Sorry again,
JC

Again, I know where you are coming from. I retired in "95" and am thinking of going back to work, at least part time! That is if there are any jobs available.


Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 28-Jun-2008, 02:22 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 01:24 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 28-Jun-2008, 06:14 AM)
QUOTE (maisky @ 28-Jun-2008, 12:08 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 10:53 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 28-Jun-2008, 05:43 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jun-2008, 09:51 AM)
I hust read in the news that in the next "few" years as gasoline reaches $7.00 a gallon (heaven forbid) there will be 10 million fewer automobiles being owned/driven.  I wonder how people will get to work?

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Work! What work?

Sorry,
JC

It will not be long and there will be no work where I live. At $7.00 a gallon for gas all other expenses may go up so much that My retirement will not allow me to live here!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

at $7 per gallon, I will continue to work for another 20 years, or until I die. At $7 a gallon for gas, I wont be able to afford to retire. rolleyes.gif

Retire! What's that?

Sorry again,
JC

Again, I know where you are coming from. I retired in "95" and am thinking of going back to work, at least part time! That is if there are any jobs available.


Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

Know what you mean. I was suposed to retire last Sept. Way things are I'll more than likely work till they put me under.


Camac rip_1.gif

Posted by: maisky 29-Jun-2008, 06:25 AM
Has anybody been following the "elections" in Zimbabwe? It seems Carl Rove has a new job as President Mugabe's political stratigest! angel_not.gif

Posted by: Patch 29-Jun-2008, 07:02 AM
QUOTE (maisky @ 29-Jun-2008, 01:25 AM)
Has anybody been following the "elections" in Zimbabwe? It seems Carl Rove has a new job as President Mugabe's political stratigest! angel_not.gif

The last I heard, the opposition leader had taken refuge in the Dutch Enbassy. You are right, Rove would fit right in there!

Slàinte,    

Patch    




Posted by: Irisman35 01-Jul-2008, 12:43 PM
Politics are not my best when it comes to discussing them. However, what is the one thing that really ticks you off when it comes to politics and the politicians?
It is there promises that get broken or is it the image smearing that takes place during campains or both?
Irisman35

Posted by: Patch 01-Jul-2008, 12:57 PM
QUOTE (Irisman35 @ 01-Jul-2008, 07:43 AM)
Politics are not my best when it comes to discussing them. However, what is the one thing that really ticks you off when it comes to politics and the politicians?
It is there promises that get broken or is it the image smearing that takes place during campains or both?
Irisman35

I think most of us are tired of it but we do not have an alternative yet. There is an old saying that if you want to know if a politician is not being truthful, just watch him closely. If he is lying, his lips will move!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Irisman35 02-Jul-2008, 05:43 AM
[COLOR=purple]
Well, I like to see both Ireland and Scotland free.
Irisman35

Posted by: oldraven 02-Jul-2008, 07:52 AM
QUOTE (Irisman35 @ 02-Jul-2008, 04:43 AM)
[COLOR=purple]
Well, I like to see both Ireland and Scotland free.
Irisman35

I think they already are. unsure.gif The Republic of Ireland is as free as they can get.

Posted by: Patch 02-Jul-2008, 11:47 AM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 02-Jul-2008, 02:52 AM)
QUOTE (Irisman35 @ 02-Jul-2008, 04:43 AM)
[COLOR=purple]
Well, I like to see both Ireland and Scotland free.
Irisman35

I think they already are. unsure.gif The Republic of Ireland is as free as they can get.

I thiink maybe he means Northern Ireland should be free like Southern Ireland. That is up to the people of Northern Ireland though.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 02-Jul-2008, 01:10 PM
So long as they're free to hold a Referendum, (they are a Democratic Parliament) they are as free as they ever will be. People toss the word 'free' around too much, and I think people still hold this image in their heads of helmeted English in white and red Tabards whipping the Irish and Scots down the Quarry road. If they wanted to leave the Union, they could, just as Quebec was given the choice to leave Canada.

Free is an empty word now, anyway. Being free of one Governing body will only put you in the service of another.

Posted by: Patch 02-Jul-2008, 01:39 PM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 02-Jul-2008, 08:10 AM)
So long as they're free to hold a Referendum, (they are a Democratic Parliament) they are as free as they ever will be. People toss the word 'free' around too much, and I think people still hold this image in their heads of helmeted English in white and red Tabards whipping the Irish and Scots down the Quarry road. If they wanted to leave the Union, they could, just as Quebec was given the choice to leave Canada.

Free is an empty word now, anyway. Being free of one Governing body will only put you in the service of another.

As I posted earlier, it is up to the people of the north. There is still some desire for a United Ireland both in the North and South. There is something about being able to chose ones form of government. That Is why some of us are so firm in our defense of our Constitution here in America.

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

Posted by: Patch 05-Jul-2008, 11:53 AM
THE DEMISE OF COMMON SENSE!


SCHOOL -- 1957 vs. 2007

Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.
1957 - Vice Principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his shotgun to show Jack.
2007 - School goes into lock down, FBI called, Jack hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again. Counsellors called in for traumatized students and teachers.

Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fistfight after school.
1957 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies.
2007 - Police called, SWAT team arrives, arrests Johnny and Mark. Charge them with assault, both expelled even though Johnny started it.

Scenario: Jeffrey won't be still in class, disrupts other students.
1957 - Jeffrey sent to office and given a good paddling by the Principal. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.
2007 - Jeffrey given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra money from state because Jeffrey has a disability.

Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbour's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.
1957 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.
2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has affair with psychologist.

Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some aspirin to school.
1957 - Mark shares aspirin with Principal out on the smoking dock.
2007 - Police called, Mark expelled from school for drug violations. Car searched for drugs and weapons.

Scenario: Pedro fails high school English.
1957 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.
2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by state. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that teaching English as a requirement for graduation is racist. ACLU files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English banned from core curriculum. Pedro given diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.

Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover firecrackers from 4th of July, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle, blows up a red ant bed.
1957 - Ants die.
2007 - BATF, Homeland Security, FBI called. Johnny charged with domestic terrorism, FBI investigates parents, siblings removed from home, computers confiscated, Johnny's Dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario: Johnny falls while running during recess and scrapes his knee. He is found crying by his teacher, Mary. Mary hugs him to comfort him.
1957 - In a short time, Johnny feels better and goes on playing.
2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces 3 years in State Prison. Johnny undergoes 5 years of therapy.

WHAT HAPPENED!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 05-Jul-2008, 12:09 PM
Patch.

Its called the Modern Society. It seems in our day Parents were domaneering sadistic abusers bent on making us good, mannerly law abiding conscientious
citizens. Something that is becomming totally alien nowadays.


Camac.

PS. BTW Common Sense is akin to swearing.

Posted by: Patch 05-Jul-2008, 01:07 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 05-Jul-2008, 07:09 AM)
Patch.

Its called the Modern Society. It seems in our day Parents were domaneering sadistic abusers bent on making us good, mannerly law abiding conscientious
citizens. Something that is becomming totally alien nowadays.


Camac.

PS. BTW Common Sense is akin to swearing.

It is sad. My father today would probably have been considered abusive. However we knew if we broke the law, were dishonest or developed low morals, exactly what would happen. The problem is, the government is too involved in our lives. It began with the programs instituted after the crash of "29." They were necessary but should never have become permanent. The whole mess has snowballed and now things are decided with "political reasoning." Any time government offers something, it is "bait" with a hook in it. For everything you get, you will lose at least twice as much. In America, the farmers were the last group of hold outs re: government aid. They finally took the "hand out" bait and now there are programs being instituted to track everything they produce. The government can enter upon their property without a warrant to inspect their production at any time and without notice.

I hope it never happens but you may end up with a well armed Southern neighbor (dictatorship) who has designs on your resources! The people here are fast trading away their rights!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 05-Jul-2008, 03:46 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 02-Jul-2008, 02:39 PM)
QUOTE (oldraven @ 02-Jul-2008, 08:10 AM)
So long as they're free to hold a Referendum, (they are a Democratic Parliament) they are as free as they ever will be. People toss the word 'free' around too much, and I think people still hold this image in their heads of helmeted English in white and red Tabards whipping the Irish and Scots down the Quarry road. If they wanted to leave the Union, they could, just as Quebec was given the choice to leave Canada.

Free is an empty word now, anyway. Being free of one Governing body will only put you in the service of another.

As I posted earlier, it is up to the people of the north. There is still some desire for a United Ireland both in the North and South. There is something about being able to chose ones form of government. That Is why some of us are so firm in our defense of our Constitution here in America.

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

After Mary gets out of prison, she meats up with Johnny, and they run off to Vegas and get married.

No one can mind their own business anymore, (is my guess).

Posted by: Camac 05-Jul-2008, 03:57 PM
Patch;

Its strange what you say about invasion. Back in the 60s' I read a book (can't remember the title) about that scenario. The US has become a military dictatorship and is looking at Canada for its resources. In order to give legitimacy to their invasion they forment trouble between the French Canadians and the rest of Canada. This causes civil war. Their plan is somewhat foiled when both the French and English find out whose behind all the trouble and secretly unite keeping the Americans thinking we are still fighting. The US invades in order to bring peace to the continent. The quickest invasion route is through Maine into New Brunswick so they amass about 10 divisions and set out. Unbeknownst to them a combined force about of 200,000 French and English are waiting in ambush in the forests along the route. The US force gets trounced pretty bad and pulls back across the border waiting for our counterattack. A shacky armistice is arranged and that where the book ended. Fiction of course because most Canadians know that if such a thing were to happen the country is toast.

Camac



rip.gif rip_1.gif death.gif

Posted by: Patch 05-Jul-2008, 05:28 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 05-Jul-2008, 10:57 AM)
Patch;

Its strange what you say about invasion. Back in the 60s' I read a book (can't remember the title) about that scenario. The US has become a military dictatorship and is looking at Canada for its resources. In order to give legitimacy to their invasion they forment trouble between the French Canadians and the rest of Canada. This causes civil war. Their plan is somewhat foiled when both the French and English find out whose behind all the trouble and secretly unite keeping the Americans thinking we are still fighting. The US invades in order to bring peace to the continent. The quickest invasion route is through Maine into New Brunswick so they amass about 10 divisions and set out. Unbeknownst to them a combined force about of 200,000 French and English are waiting in ambush in the forests along the route. The US force gets trounced pretty bad and pulls back across the border waiting for our counterattack. A shacky armistice is arranged and that where the book ended. Fiction of course because most Canadians know that if such a thing were to happen the country is toast.

Camac



rip.gif rip_1.gif death.gif

There was a time when the American public would not support that action. Now we are pretty much a nation of sheep and I am not sure. Maybe you should have kept that shotgun. LOL

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 05-Jul-2008, 05:31 PM
JC
After Mary gets out of prison, she meats up with Johnny, and they run off to Vegas and get married.

No one can mind their own business anymore, (is my guess).



That is about 98% of it!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 12-Jul-2008, 08:42 PM
Saw this AM that "IndyMac" savings bank was taken over by the Fed. last night. Looks like another fine mess we will have to pay for!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 13-Jul-2008, 09:48 AM
Hi Patch;
Since our currency is now Yuan. The idea of a run on the “BANK” doesn’t make much sense, does it?

So what does that leave us, Gold, nah, too heavy. Led? Yes, (in the form of ammunition). Or diamonds, remember “Marathon Man”.

I don’t know why, but this situation reminds me of the time I let an old lady ahead of me on the baggage check in line, (at the airport). Well!
Next thing I know, all then members of her family are ahead of me too? And you know I didn’t let them get away with that one!

Anyway, my guess is, that those in the know, (and we all know who they are). Already have their nest egg, set up some where else.

Other then that, it’s a beautifully day here in North Jersey.

JC

Posted by: Patch 13-Jul-2008, 11:21 AM
In "29" the important people got the word before they let the market and banks tank. There are less ethics in Govt. and industry today than back then. The news this AM also said there were an additional 90 banks on the "watch list. The last I knew the FDIC fund had about 5 cents for every insured dollar in the system. That was 15 years ago. At its best it was about 25 cents. That is just more of the money (along with the SS fund) that the Govt has loaned itself and that does not show up in the national debt.

I understand they are sending rebate checks to the deceased now and I am still waiting on mine.

Also, if the rebates are helping the economy, it certainly would have been a SORRY mess without them.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 13-Jul-2008, 02:19 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 13-Jul-2008, 12:21 PM)
In "29" the important people got the word before they let the market and banks tank. There are less ethics in Govt. and industry today than back then. The news this AM also said there were an additional 90 banks on the "watch list. The last I knew the FDIC fund had about 5 cents for every insured dollar in the system. That was 15 years ago. At its best it was about 25 cents. That is just more of the money (along with the SS fund) that the Govt has loaned itself and that does not show up in the national debt.

I understand they are sending rebate checks to the deceased now and I am still waiting on mine.

Also, if the rebates are helping the economy, it certainly would have been a SORRY mess without them.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

We got our checks about a week or so a go. Time to start raising some hell, I’d think?

I had heard that the Big Banks deliberately caused the crash of 29, so they could buy their computation, (the small banks for ten cents on the dollar).

I guess sooner or later all corporations/countries overextend themselves.

I understand McCain guy said it was all in our heads, next thing you know they’ll be telling us not to worry, because we’re all going to go heaven. (But that’s another whole story.)

Hey why don’t you Google a video called: “The Panama Deception”, instructing stuff, if you ask me.

Well Patch? It looks like it’s just you and me here today, trying to solve the world’s problems… any ideas?

Over and out,
JC

Posted by: Patch 13-Jul-2008, 04:30 PM
I can see the problems but don't have the solutions.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 14-Jul-2008, 07:10 AM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 13-Jul-2008, 09:19 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 13-Jul-2008, 12:21 PM)
In "29" the important people got the word before they let the market and banks tank.  There are less ethics in Govt. and industry today than back then.  The news this AM also said there were an additional 90 banks on the "watch list.  The last I knew the FDIC fund had about 5 cents for every insured dollar in the system.  That was 15 years ago.  At its best it was about 25 cents.  That is just more of the money (along with the SS fund) that the Govt has loaned itself and that does not show up in the national debt.

I understand they are sending rebate checks to the deceased now and I am still waiting on mine. 

Also, if the rebates are helping the economy, it certainly would have been a SORRY mess without them.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

We got our checks about a week or so a go. Time to start raising some hell, I’d think?

I had heard that the Big Banks deliberately caused the crash of 29, so they could buy their computation, (the small banks for ten cents on the dollar).

I guess sooner or later all corporations/countries overextend themselves.

I understand McCain guy said it was all in our heads, next thing you know they’ll be telling us not to worry, because we’re all going to go heaven. (But that’s another whole story.)

Hey why don’t you Google a video called: “The Panama Deception”, instructing stuff, if you ask me.

Well Patch? It looks like it’s just you and me here today, trying to solve the world’s problems… any ideas?

Over and out,
JC

I watched a good part of the video. Sure makes one proud. Some friends son was down there and he did the same "work" I did when I was in the military. Both still had the same security clearance and we talked a little. It is amazing how things never change! Government will always act to preserve IT'S SELF! The citizens account for nothing.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 14-Jul-2008, 07:21 AM
I just read that the Fed announced there will be no more bank bail-outs re: the mortgage crisis except Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (The government has most of that money already) It is nice to know that they were involved in the scandal too! That is the governments way of telling us that all the important people have their money out of the mortgage mess and only the little investors will loose now!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 14-Jul-2008, 07:33 AM
My neighbor asked me to come over and look at a letter she got from the IRS. Because of the economy and the market losses last year she had over paid her estimated taxes. The government was so kind as to return the over payment and what appeared to be well under 2% interest on the over payment. The beauty of it was the substantial penalty on the overpayment, (Well over 11%) Strange how the government profits even from a POOR economy!!! She wanted to give them a piece of her mind and I advised that she just talk to the person who did her taxes. Other wise the IRS might end up getting more than a "piece" of her "mind"!!

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

Posted by: Patch 14-Jul-2008, 07:38 AM
Will Rogers said a long time ago that we shouldne complain about what we pay in taxes. It was cheap admission to the greatest comedy on earth! At today's tax rates I am not sure if that is still true!! (or it the comedy is that good)

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 14-Jul-2008, 07:39 AM
Aren't we living out more of a tragedy these days anyway?

Posted by: Patch 14-Jul-2008, 07:42 AM
True! I wouldn't go to a theater to see a tragedy. Comedy is my thing!

Slàinte,    

Patch    


Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 14-Jul-2008, 07:58 AM
It is amazing again the volume of money that has transferred itself to the top!

It is amazing how much "money" is being created to cover debt!

It is not a wonder that the dollar is so weak and the economy in the dumpster!

Oil will never again go down in price!

If you have money you will position yourself to take advantage of the windfall profits being removed from the energy consumer to the energy investor!

As the worlds major consumer of about everything there is, best consider how you will be paying for your future consumption!

When you consume anything in any manner you are left with pooh.gif !

These views are the authors and may be extreme and pessimistic cause I haven't had my coffee yet!

USN sad.gif mad.gif disgust.gif down.gif fear.gif msncoffecup.gif

Posted by: Camac 14-Jul-2008, 08:05 AM
Gentlemen;

Could it be that History is repeating itself and is gearing up for War? tank.gif tomcat.gif scared.gif

Posted by: Patch 14-Jul-2008, 09:06 AM
I agree with you in part. Based on the idea that the economy will not go into a "deflationary" period your presumption is true. However deflation (depression) will cause a massive economic readjustment and in all probability also a massive population reduction.

Hope I am wrong!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 14-Jul-2008, 09:11 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 14-Jul-2008, 03:05 AM)
Gentlemen;

Could it be that History is repeating itself and is gearing up for War? tank.gif tomcat.gif scared.gif

That has crossed my mind, Throughout history, war has been good for the economy. I doubt America's politicians realize that they screwed up by letting our industry leave our shores. Because of that act, war does not ramp up our economy any longer.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: UlsterScotNutt 14-Jul-2008, 09:38 AM
The USA has cancelled its SoFA with Iraq today.

Iraq is flexing its soveriegn muscles and demanding a deadline for withdrawal and is complaining about the 20 plus "permanent" military bases and posts being constructed.

With oil supply being produced at a deficit to meet demand on a daily basis, we conserve and for every barrell we conserve, someone else is in line to buy it.

We as a nation are being strategic in the placement of our noses.

Read this, ignore any perceived bias and look at the last sentence.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis114.html

USN

Posted by: Patch 15-Jul-2008, 10:32 AM
I am checking this as best I can. I KNOW we have tremendous Oil Shale reserves in the Rocky Mountains and the Montana/Dakota's field is probably part of Canada's Oil Sand reserves. THIS SHOULD GIVE YOU A PLACE TO START CHECKING!! MAKE UP YOUR OWN MIND!

OIL Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2008 07:48:49 -0700

Like you, I've been absolutely blown away by what has happened to the price of a gallon of gas. More like just plain MAD! But it's time (way past time, obviously) for all of us to put up or shut up. And by that I mean quit belly-aching to one another (trust me - I do it as well - so I'm talking to myself, too, here!) ... and DO SOMETHING. And trust me ... not buying gas from one or two of the 'Big Boys' for a month, or electing to not buy gas on a given day. is not the answer.

The answer is one I know you know, and have heard many times before from people a lot more well-versed in this than me: LESSENING our dependence on foreign oil. Just poking around the Internet recently, I simply 'Googled' the search 'Untapped U.S. Oil Reserves,' and the result (like the current price of a gallon of gas - BLEW ME AWAY! Go ahead, take a minute and see for yourself! Never mind, I'll share some of the highlights I found.

1. Ever heard of the Bakken Formation? GOOGLE it. I did, and again, BLEW my mind. The U.S. Geological Service issued a report in April ('08) that only scientists and oilmen/women knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since '95) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota, western South Dakota and extreme eastern Montana ... check THIS out: The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska's Prudhoe Bay, and has the potential to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... at $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $5.3 trillion. 'When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea' says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyst. 'This sizeable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years,' reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a formation known as the Williston Basin, but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' And it stretches from Northern Montana through North Dakota and into Canada. For years, U.S. oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's massive reserves... and we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels. And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL! That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 41 years straight. If THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - because it's from TWO YEARS AGO, people.

2. 'U.S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World!' Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006. Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world - more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth. Here are the official estimates: * 8 times as much oil as Saudi Arabia * 18 times as much oil as Iraq * 21 times as much oil as Kuwait * 22 times as much oil as Iran * 500 times as much oil as Yemen - and it's all right here in the Western United States. HOW can this be? HOW can we NOT be extracting this? Because we've not D E M A N D E D legislation to come out of Washington allowing its extraction, that's why! James Bartis, lead researcher with the study, says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East - more than 2 TRILLION barrels. Untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today, reports The Denver Post. Don't think 'Big Oil' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, and if they can extract it (here) for less, they can afford to sell it for less - and if they DON'T, others will. It will come down - it has to. Got your attention/ire up yet? Hope so! Now, while you're thinking about it ... and hopefully P.O'd, do this:

3. Take 5-10 minutes and compose an e-mail, fax or good old-fashioned letter to our elected officials in Washington ... and their respected leaders. We'll start with them, and here's how you can send them your e-mail/fax, DEMANDING the immediate Legislation/Energy Plan that calls for tapping into these (OUR OWN!) reserves, as well as allowing for the offshore drilling for OUR oil, in OUR offshore waters and inter-continental shelf ... not to mention Alaska. Technology ain't what it used to be, people (ever had arthroscopic surgery?). They can surgically extract OUR oil, and get us on the way to at least some measure of Energy independence, and accomplish it in an environmentally friendly manner. If you don't take a little time to do this, then you should stifle yourself the next time you want to complain about gas prices... because by doing NOTHING, you've forfeited your right to complain.

Posted by: Camac 15-Jul-2008, 11:40 AM
Patch;

On the weekend I caught the tail end of a bit on extracting oil from coal. Seems the |Germans perfected the technique during the War and trhe US has some of the largest coal deposits on the Planet. Mentioned some about they could lower the price to $35.per barrel and it burns cleaner.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 15-Jul-2008, 11:49 AM
The "material" is there. The Industry desire to utilize it is not!! To me that is criminal.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 15-Jul-2008, 12:00 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 15-Jul-2008, 12:49 PM)
The "material" is there. The Industry desire to utilize it is not!! To me that is criminal.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

On the ABC news last night they did a bit on using Sorghum in stead of corn. There again it cheaper and cleaner. I guess thats' the problem. Can't soak the consumer.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 15-Jul-2008, 01:46 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 15-Jul-2008, 07:00 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 15-Jul-2008, 12:49 PM)
The "material" is there.  The Industry desire to utilize it is not!!  To me that is criminal.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

On the ABC news last night they did a bit on using Sorghum in stead of corn. There again it cheaper and cleaner. I guess thats' the problem. Can't soak the consumer.


Camac.

Sorghum has a lot higher sugar and starch content than corn and grows like a weed. Therefor it would produce more alcahol for the dollar. Our "moron" set the trend toward corn.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: stoirmeil 15-Jul-2008, 04:40 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 14-Jul-2008, 10:11 AM)
Throughout history, war has been good for the economy. I doubt America's politicians realize that they screwed up by letting our industry leave our shores. Because of that act, war does not ramp up our economy any longer.


There's a sobering thought -- ramping up all the old shipyards and airplane factories to get everyone back to work. At current American labor prices, and with home-grown steel and plastic materials. I'll tell my mom to take her overalls out of mothballs and get her old riveting gun down off the mantel. dry.gif

Posted by: John Clements 15-Jul-2008, 06:33 PM
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 15-Jul-2008, 05:40 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 14-Jul-2008, 10:11 AM)
Throughout history, war has been good for the economy.  I doubt America's politicians realize that they screwed up by letting our industry leave our shores.  Because of that act, war does not ramp up our economy any longer.


There's a sobering thought -- ramping up all the old shipyards and airplane factories to get everyone back to work. At current American labor prices, and with home-grown steel and plastic materials. I'll tell my mom to take her overalls out of mothballs and get her old riveting gun down off the mantel. dry.gif

Right on stoirmeil, were still living in the past.

JC

Posted by: Patch 15-Jul-2008, 07:11 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 15-Jul-2008, 01:33 PM)
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 15-Jul-2008, 05:40 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 14-Jul-2008, 10:11 AM)
Throughout history, war has been good for the economy.  I doubt America's politicians realize that they screwed up by letting our industry leave our shores.  Because of that act, war does not ramp up our economy any longer.


There's a sobering thought -- ramping up all the old shipyards and airplane factories to get everyone back to work. At current American labor prices, and with home-grown steel and plastic materials. I'll tell my mom to take her overalls out of mothballs and get her old riveting gun down off the mantel. dry.gif

Right on stoirmeil, were still living in the past.

JC

My Mom is gone so someone elses mother will have to cover my military expedeitures.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: stoirmeil 15-Jul-2008, 08:32 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 15-Jul-2008, 08:11 PM)
My Mom is gone so someone elses mother will have to cover my military expedeitures.

Slàinte,

Patch

I guess the point is nobody's Mom is going to be a Rosie the Rivetter any more -- the idea that war (or vigorous armed defense) makes a good domestic industry went out with our big industrial and manufacturing profile as a nation. Rosie the Rivetter is now Dottie the Data Input Operator.

Posted by: Patch 15-Jul-2008, 08:59 PM
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 15-Jul-2008, 03:32 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 15-Jul-2008, 08:11 PM)
My Mom is gone so someone elses mother will have to cover my military expedeitures. 

Slàinte,   

Patch

I guess the point is nobody's Mom is going to be a Rosie the Rivetter any more -- the idea that war (or vigorous armed defense) makes a good domestic industry went out with our big industrial and manufacturing profile as a nation. Rosie the Rivetter is now Dottie the Data Input Operator.

That data input operator is just as likely to be out of the country as the manufacturing jobs.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 15-Jul-2008, 09:02 PM
Tonight before I left to eat and after the stock market closed, GM announced that it would have a "special" announcement to make in the morning. Could be interesting.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 16-Jul-2008, 02:22 PM
GM is closing more factories and announced more job cuts. Outside sources feel Bankruptcy protection is coming. This is the worst situation they have been in in their history according to their spokesman. Bush says "take a breath" and Breneke says there is no correction room left. The Banking committee chairman says we are sitting on an economic powder keg. All this from our local conservative newspaper

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 16-Jul-2008, 05:24 PM
To get off the subject of recession/depression for just a min. It was announced here in Toronto that my Hero the greatest mind since da Vinci, "Stephen Hawkings" has been offered a position at the University of Waterloo (Ont.) and is considering it as he is somewhat peeved with the Brit gov. for cutting back on research funds. If I had a choice of meeting God, the Queen, or Stephen I'll meet Stephen.



Camac.

Posted by: Patch 16-Jul-2008, 07:29 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 16-Jul-2008, 12:24 PM)
To get off the subject of recession/depression for just a min. It was announced here in Toronto that my Hero the greatest mind since da Vinci, "Stephen Hawkings" has been offered a position at the University of Waterloo (Ont.) and is considering it as he is somewhat peeved with the Brit gov. for cutting back on research funds. If I had a choice of meeting God, the Queen, or Stephen I'll meet Stephen.



Camac.

Yours is a better subject. I saw a special on him on PBS. It is amazing what he has done with his life.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 16-Jul-2008, 07:43 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 16-Jul-2008, 08:29 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 16-Jul-2008, 12:24 PM)
To get off the subject of recession/depression for just a min. It was announced here in Toronto that my Hero the greatest mind since da Vinci, "Stephen Hawkings" has been offered a position at the University of Waterloo (Ont.) and is considering it as he is somewhat peeved with the Brit gov. for cutting back on research funds. If I had a choice of meeting God, the Queen, or Stephen I'll meet Stephen.



Camac.

Yours is a better subject. I saw a special on him on PBS. It is amazing what he has done with his life.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

Just caught a blurp on the news that Stephen Hawkings won't be coming to Waterloo. The position was offered to him by Perimetre Research, which was started by the chap who founded RIM (Research in Motion)(Blackberry). He is coming to Waterloo but only for a visit as a colleague from Cambridge did take a position with Perimetre.

PS. I read somewhere that there are those who think that when it comes to theoretical physics he makes Einstein look like a grade school student.
Camac.

Posted by: Patch 16-Jul-2008, 08:35 PM
His thought process is out of my league and I qualified for "Mensa" membership.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 17-Jul-2008, 06:59 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 16-Jul-2008, 09:35 PM)
His thought process is out of my league and I qualified for "Mensa" membership.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

I watched that programme also on PBS. How cruel fate can be sometimes. To be that intelligent and to be trapped in a body that is slowly wasting away. They had him on Star Trek T.N.G. and when he was being shown around the set he was taken to Engineering and looking at the warp drive, he smiled and said give me time I'm working on it. The whole cast and crew were in awe of him.


Camac.



Posted by: John Clements 17-Jul-2008, 08:26 AM
Yes it’s amazing how nature can make up for its defects, and Hawkings is a perfect example.

Posted by: Patch 17-Jul-2008, 08:47 AM
It is my recollection that he was not afflicted as a young man. I do not recall what caused his disability. Most ailments of that nature are terminal. They say we only use a small portion of our mental abilities. Maybe were we to loose other functions ourselves our brains would be able to use more of their ability.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: maisky 17-Jul-2008, 08:55 AM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 17-Jul-2008, 08:26 AM)
Yes it’s amazing how nature can make up for its defects, and Hawkings is a perfect example.

This is true in some cases, such as my personal hero, Mr. Hawkings. Question: what compensation did GWB get for being born without a mind or a conscience?

Posted by: Camac 17-Jul-2008, 09:01 AM
QUOTE (maisky @ 17-Jul-2008, 09:55 AM)
This is true in some cases, such as my personal hero, Mr. Hawkings. Question: what compensation did GWB get for being born without a mind or a conscience?

CHENEY.



Camac.

Posted by: Patch 17-Jul-2008, 09:09 AM
I saw last night that a group of pilots went public claiming the airlines are trying to restrict the pilots ability to determine the amount of fuel to load for flights. (to keep weight down) I have not flown but I have heard that there are no magazines and no in flight videos on many flights to reduce weight and fuel usage. Also food and water have been reduced for the same reason. They charge for extra luggage now too. We may have to pay by the pound for our luggage soon. In matters involving anything that keeps the plane in the air, I want the pilot to make the decision. He has to come along and I assume he doesn't want to fly the plane into the ground.

It isn't like an auto, where, if you were to run out of fuel, you call AAA or walk to get fuel.

That is one of the foremost rules if flying. "The plane will always land." The key to being a successful pilot is to have a "controlled landing" as opposed to an "uncontrolled" one. Also it must occur at the time and place of the pilot's choosing!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 17-Jul-2008, 09:18 AM
Patch;

On the flights that the pilot is forced to restrict the amount of fuel the Airline Execs should be forced to fly along . If the plane starts runing out of fuel at least the passengers can throw the Execs out to lighten the load.. Was in a Canso (PBY) once that had fuel problems. Scared the livin' crap out of me. The Pilot switched tanks and everything settled down. Turned out it was contamination in the fuel.

Camac.

Posted by: Patch 17-Jul-2008, 10:02 AM
The problem with flying is there is an extra dimension (up and down) to deal with.

The plane that crashed in Colorado Springs, did so after I left but would have gone over my house upside down just before the crash. I could stand on the sidewalk, look up the hill and see the hospital that it flew past at about 30 foot above the ground.

One can wean the fuel down and make the engines "stutter" and "pop. That would be a neat trick to perform for the execs though would be tough on the other passengers too.

Reminds me of a joke. (not politically correct)

A flight from Helena Montana to Houston Texas encountered a terrible electrical storm. The turbulence was horrible and eventually the engines failed one at a time. Fortunately the pilot got the engines restarted and made a successful landing. One of the airline reps in the terminal noticed that every one who got off the plane was a "little person." She inquired of the pilot how they happened to have all "little people" on the flight. He told her they were all Texas ranchers coming back from a stock show and most were 6 ft. tall or more till the last engine quit and they all S-it!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 20-Jul-2008, 03:09 AM
I received an article from a friend in Michigan where the author (a doctor)resides. The author related his memories of German society during the period when Hitler came to power and how it relates to radical Islam today. He and his family along with the rest of the population viewed Hitler with idle curiosity. When realization set in as to what had happened it was too late. His family lost their business interests and land holdings to allied bombing and the Nazi Party. He spent the last part of the war in a Nazi concentration camp. His opinion was that Islam may be peopled by many peaceful individuals but if they, due to fear, apathy or whatever, do nothing the radical element of Islam will take over the world with disastrous consequences. On a smaller scale, one has only to look at Cambodia, the Balkans, China North Korea, Russia and the dictatorships of Africa.

Personally I have yet to find where any member of Islam has publicly taken a stand against the radical element of their religion.

Slàinte,   

 Patch    


Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 20-Jul-2008, 06:54 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 20-Jul-2008, 05:09 AM)

Personally I have yet to find where any member of Islam has publicly taken a stand against the radical element of their religion.

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

May I suggest you check out Islam is Peace at http://www.islamispeace.org.uk/ .

Posted by: Patch 20-Jul-2008, 10:26 AM
QUOTE (TheCarolinaScotsman @ 20-Jul-2008, 01:54 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 20-Jul-2008, 05:09 AM)

Personally I have yet to find where any member of Islam has publicly taken a stand against the radical element of their religion.

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

May I suggest you check out Islam is Peace at http://www.islamispeace.org.uk/ .

Ok, I read it and watched the video's and The closest I saw to denunciation was that some misguided individuals in Islam have created the idea that Islam sponsors terrorism. When "Royal" (a Catholic) was posting, he discredited my faith and I was quick to denounce him. I would have done the same if he could have killed me.

Either they are unwilling or too afraid to denounce the radical element that DOES exist in their faith. Islam split into two distinct groups a couple thousand years ago and have waged Jihad against each other ever since. America and our allies (few as they may be) seem to have drawn their attention to "The Great Satan" (us). Like the Doctor from Germany related, all it takes for a national or world catastrophe to take place is for responsible people to "stand silent" until it is too late!

I see the link as a recruitment site and I am satisfied with my faith. I did save the site to study it more closely.

We know who hijacked planes and killed thousands of innocent people here. It is documented as to how the radical element (Taliban) treated the citizens of Afghanistan and Bosnia was no picnic for the Serbs. There isn't a lot of kindness in Africa either.

Homeland Security recently announced that "people" have entered the country (who would have thought that.) and they are now s-itting razor blades hoping they catch them before something happens. As they announced, there is no guarantee that they will. This is a great time for disruption though I doubt any thing done will disrupt our election process. What do you expect the country will do if terrorists kill 50 thousand or more the next time? If you find something concrete re: public denunciation, let me know.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 20-Jul-2008, 09:11 PM
I forwarded the link to friends in Scotland and England. Those in England had some very interesting information. Foremost they had heard nothing of this movement. They related some very interesting anecdotes re: Muslim "friends." The Scots were concerned mostly about the past attacks in England.

Slàinte,    

Patch    




Posted by: Patch 26-Jul-2008, 11:07 AM
I just saw that Wachovia posted a second quarter loss of 8.9 Billion, is laying off 6,300 plus employees and is "exiting" the mortgage loan business. Wachovia, I believe, is the fourth largest bank in the U.S.

It is amazing how greed comes back to bite one!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 27-Jul-2008, 06:20 AM
I just read that the First National Bank of Nevada and the First Heritage bank (AZ) were closed and taken over by the Fed Friday night. Another bank agreed to buy out the deposits.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 27-Jul-2008, 07:53 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 27-Jul-2008, 07:20 AM)
I just read that the First National Bank of Nevada and the First Heritage bank (AZ) were closed and taken over by the Fed Friday night.  Another bank agreed to buy out the deposits.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

Correct me if I'm wrong but it is my understanding that basicly anyone can open a bank in the US. If this is the case it is very different here as in Canada you have to recieve a charter from the Government which is extremely difficult to obtain. We have only five major domestic banks but do allow foreign banks to operate.



Camac.

PS> Canadina banking rules are very strict.

Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 27-Jul-2008, 08:42 AM
Camac

It depends on whether the bank is chartered by the federal government or the state. The rules vary from state to state, but generally are more lax than the federal rules. I'm not familiar with all the rules, but do know that the bank has to have a minimum amount of money to start-up and must maintain a certain percentage of deposits as cash. As to who may start a bank, if a group of people incorporate and meet the requirements for cash reserve, etc. then they can start a bank.

For the two banks that the Fed took over, their cash reserves fell below the minimum and the feds stepped in and arranged a sale before they failed. That way, there was no disruption for the depositors.

Also at risk are Savings and Loans, which are legally different from banks. In recent years, it has become hard to tell the difference because the S and Ls offer most of the same services as a bank. But their rules are more lenient than bank rules. Also, the S and Ls may be state or federally chartered, the rules differing from state to state.

Confused yet?

Posted by: Camac 27-Jul-2008, 08:51 AM
QUOTE (TheCarolinaScotsman @ 27-Jul-2008, 09:42 AM)
Camac

It depends on whether the bank is chartered by the federal government or the state. The rules vary from state to state, but generally are more lax than the federal rules. I'm not familiar with all the rules, but do know that the bank has to have a minimum amount of money to start-up and must maintain a certain percentage of deposits as cash. As to who may start a bank, if a group of people incorporate and meet the requirements for cash reserve, etc. then they can start a bank.

For the two banks that the Fed took over, their cash reserves fell below the minimum and the feds stepped in and arranged a sale before they failed. That way, there was no disruption for the depositors.

Also at risk are Savings and Loans, which are legally different from banks. In recent years, it has become hard to tell the difference because the S and Ls offer most of the same services as a bank. But their rules are more lenient than bank rules. Also, the S and Ls may be state or federally chartered, the rules differing from state to state.

Confused yet?

CarolinaScotsman;

Somewhat. As I said Canadian banking laws are really strict and it is difficult to start one up. I don't know much about it but I vaguely remember years ago a group tried to start a bank but because of the laws ended up opening a Trust Company which in turn was bought out be one of the Charter Bank, Toronto Dominion/Canada Trust. Just as confusing Eh.

Camac.

Posted by: Patch 27-Jul-2008, 10:07 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 27-Jul-2008, 03:51 AM)
QUOTE (TheCarolinaScotsman @ 27-Jul-2008, 09:42 AM)
Camac

It depends on whether the bank is chartered by the federal government or the state.  The rules vary from state to state, but generally are more lax than the federal rules.  I'm not familiar with all the rules, but do know that the bank has to have a minimum amount of money to start-up and must maintain a certain percentage of deposits as cash.  As to who may start a bank, if a group of people incorporate and meet the requirements for cash reserve, etc. then they can start a bank.

For the two banks that the Fed took over, their cash reserves fell below the minimum and the feds stepped in and arranged a sale before they failed.  That way, there was no disruption for the depositors.

Also at risk are Savings and Loans, which are legally different from banks.  In recent years, it has become hard to tell the difference because the S and Ls offer most of the same services as a bank.  But their rules are more lenient than bank rules.  Also, the S and Ls may be state or federally chartered, the rules differing from state to state.

Confused yet?

CarolinaScotsman;

Somewhat. As I said Canadian banking laws are really strict and it is difficult to start one up. I don't know much about it but I vaguely remember years ago a group tried to start a bank but because of the laws ended up opening a Trust Company which in turn was bought out be one of the Charter Bank, Toronto Dominion/Canada Trust. Just as confusing Eh.

Camac.

That is how I understand it to be. I think now S&L's and maybe credit unions are required to insure the deposits through the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. I will have to ask my Daughter as she just left a Credit union to manage a private Branch Bank in the Wall Mart chain. Fortunately she gets paid by the bank and not Wall Mart! I think with the S&L debacle some years ago the insurance expanded to cover most deposits.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 27-Jul-2008, 10:24 AM
I just read in the business section of todays newspaper that Chrysler Corp. is discontinuing their Auto and Truck leasing operation. As I understood the article, they will still assist in obtaining leases through outside lenders. The cost will probably increase somewhat.

Also on the subject of dealerships, Ford, here, has reduced their inventory of new vehicles to 17 auto's, 2 SUV's and 7 pickup's.

Chrysler's local lot had 18 Auto's, 1 SUV and 6 pickups.


GM has 16 Auto's, 31 SUV's and 38 Pickups". They may have more in their storage building.

With the new models coming out soon, the above does not bode well for GM.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 27-Jul-2008, 11:04 AM
Unbelievable!!!

44-year-old Ben Hawkins of Ohio, a known sex offender, posed as a market researcher and gained access to people's children through ads he published. He said he needed to take the children into a separate room for "underwear measurements." And this was just fine with some folks, apparently.

Cincinnati Enquirer 25-Jul-08

Slàinte,    

Patch    



Posted by: Patch 27-Jul-2008, 11:09 AM
It appears that the U.S. isn't the only place screwed up!

Man Gets On-The-Spot $60 Fine For Smoking In His Van Because His Van Is Classified As His Workplace
In other news, workplace theft, committed by government employees, is expected to rise significantly In the UK

A self-employed UK painter and decorator was pulled over and given a $60 instant fine while smoking in his van because his van is classified as his workplace by the local council. And since smoking in the workplace was recently banned in the UK....

"A spokesman for Ceredigion council defended the fine. He said: “The general position in relation to smoking legislation is that there are very few exemptions to the smoking ban. It affects most public premises, including work places and work vehicles.” "

The creator of the legislation disagrees, and says work vans are exempted by the new law, but who cares about him?

It seems that while all of us were watching out for the "thought police," it was the "lack of thought police" we really needed to be concerned about.

The Times (of London) 25-Jul-08

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 27-Jul-2008, 11:12 AM
A Company Installing A Sewer Line Is Forced To Pay $1,250 A Week For Someone To Watch For Trains On An Abandoned Rail Line
The weed infested track is blocked and hasn't seen a train in over a decade

Wannon Water , building a sewage line in Victoria, Australia, must pay a man about $1,250 a week for 3 months to watch for trains coming on a nearby abandoned rail line that is blocked and hasn't been in use for over a decade.

"It's a V/Line requirement that a rail person is on site at all times. We did question that, knowing the rail line was not active, but it was a condition of work," said a Wannon Water communications spokeswoman.

V/Line calls it's a safety issue. We call it being railroaded.

Herald Sun (Australia) 24-Jul-08

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 27-Jul-2008, 08:18 PM
Patch;

Here in Ontario it is illegal to smoke in your car if there are kids on board. They even considered making it iliegal to smoke in your house if you have children. That was shelved very quickly.






Camac.

Posted by: Patch 28-Jul-2008, 06:30 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 27-Jul-2008, 03:18 PM)
Patch;

Here in Ontario it is illegal to smoke in your car if there are kids on board. They even considered making it iliegal to smoke in your house if you have children. That was shelved very quickly.






Camac.

I see a lot of these laws as a way to train people to "accept" government control. That is how a populace is turned into a herd of sheep. Some do have a bit more merit than others.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 28-Jul-2008, 06:45 AM
Patch;

I'm a smoker (my only vice) and I agree with the Law about smoking in cars with kids on board but to say you can't smoke at home for the same reason is "Orwellian"I know many parents who smoke and each one of them has the sense to do so away from their children,usually out on the balcony, deck, or in the basement. No government has the right to invade the privacy of a persons' home.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 28-Jul-2008, 10:01 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 28-Jul-2008, 01:45 AM)
Patch;

I'm a smoker (my only vice) and I agree with the Law about smoking in cars with kids on board but to say you can't smoke at home for the same reason is "Orwellian"I know many parents who smoke and each one of them has the sense to do so away from their children,usually out on the balcony, deck, or in the basement. No government has the right to invade the privacy of a persons' home.


Camac.

They do down here since the patriot act!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 28-Jul-2008, 12:11 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jul-2008, 11:01 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 28-Jul-2008, 01:45 AM)
Patch;

I'm a smoker (my only vice) and I agree with the Law about smoking in cars with kids on board but to say you can't smoke at home for the same reason is "Orwellian"I know many parents who smoke and each one of them has the sense to do so away from their children,usually out on the balcony, deck, or in the basement. No government has the right to invade the privacy of a persons' home.


Camac.

They do down here since the patriot act!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

From some of the postings I read and the news along with history methinks its 1775 in the US rather than 2008. Maybe Georgie Boy. is the reincarnation of king.gif Geo.III. He was mentally unstable too.




Camac

Posted by: oldraven 28-Jul-2008, 12:42 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 27-Jul-2008, 07:18 PM)
Patch;

Here in Ontario it is illegal to smoke in your car if there are kids on board. They even considered making it iliegal to smoke in your house if you have children. That was shelved very quickly.






Camac.

Yes. That law was the biggest trend, six months ago. It all started with one average sized town here in Nova Scotia (Bridgewater), and has spread like wildfire throughout Canada and the US.

http://www.volconvo.com/forums/society-rights/19997-cancer-society-applauds-n-s-car.html

QUOTE
Nova Scotia's ban on smoking in vehicles carrying kids will not only protect children from harmful second-hand smoke, but create a "wave of change'' across the country, says the Canadian Cancer Society.


Not just across the Country. This one, in my opinion, was necessary. This should be common sense, but some people just need common sense pounded into them through fines.

Banning smoking in your house is ridiculous, since pretty much every other place in cities with smoking bans would be considered public property, or within so many feet of it. So, smoke on the roof? You may as well just ban smoking outright and wait for the riots to start.

Posted by: Patch 29-Jul-2008, 03:37 PM
I heard on the radio today that McCain had a "spot" removed from his face. He says it is of no consequence as he has it done regularly.? I thought he said he had no procedures done for "skin malignancies" or "precancerous lesions."

Oh well, such is politics.

Slàinte,    

Patch    


Posted by: Patch 29-Jul-2008, 03:40 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 28-Jul-2008, 07:11 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 28-Jul-2008, 11:01 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 28-Jul-2008, 01:45 AM)
Patch;

I'm a smoker (my only vice) and I agree with the Law about smoking in cars with kids on board but to say you can't smoke at home for the same reason is "Orwellian"I know many parents who smoke and each one of them has the sense to do so away from their children,usually out on the balcony, deck, or in the basement. No government has the right to invade the privacy of a persons' home.


Camac.

They do down here since the patriot act!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

From some of the postings I read and the news along with history methinks its 1775 in the US rather than 2008. Maybe Georgie Boy. is the reincarnation of king.gif Geo.III. He was mentally unstable too.




Camac

I will have to read more about George III.

Slàinte,    

Patch    


Posted by: Patch 30-Jul-2008, 11:57 AM
I just read a newsbreak! The Fed. has extended monetary protection to "Hedge Funds" on Wall street. I fear we should be stockpiling food and medicines. It happened in "29". They took care of the major "shakers and players." The rest got -------!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 30-Jul-2008, 03:17 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 30-Jul-2008, 12:57 PM)
I just read a newsbreak! The Fed. has extended monetary protection to "Hedge Funds" on Wall street. I fear we should be stockpiling food and medicines. It happened in "29". They took care of the major "shakers and players." The rest got -------!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

Sometimes my friend I fear there is a conspiracy afoot. It is not that of any nation, political group or enthnicity but of the power brokers. The more they accumulate the more power, the more power, the more control, in an edless cycle of greed. Perhaps "1984" should be retitled "2084".


Camac.



Posted by: TheCarolinaScotsman 30-Jul-2008, 03:55 PM
Maybe I could put an "INC." after my name and apply for an economic bailout?

Posted by: Patch 30-Jul-2008, 04:11 PM
When I invested money, I fully understood it was a gamble. Gambling has never been my nature so I was always uncomfortable with the process. You both are right! The power brokers and corporations will be saved and the little news release I picked up on a Sunday night about funding food pantries and soup kitchens is probably what the rest of us will get. Maybe we should all "incorporate!"

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 30-Jul-2008, 04:27 PM
Patch;

Either incorporate or rebel. If you choose rebel let me know I fought for you guys once I think I could do it again. Got admit though the years have put a lot of weight and aches that I didn't have the first time.



Camac.

Posted by: Patch 30-Jul-2008, 07:39 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 30-Jul-2008, 11:27 AM)
Patch;

Either incorporate or rebel. If you choose rebel let me know I fought for you guys once I think I could do it again. Got admit though the years have put a lot of weight and aches that I didn't have the first time.



Camac.

My health sucks but as long as I can access my ,medicine, I will fight to the death for my children and grand childrens freedom. I appreciate the offer of support. I had a joke about how the government has it all wrong. They should send us older folks instead of the young. We are better suited in temperament and will power to fight wars and most of us come by it rather naturally. I will try to find it again.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: oldraven 31-Jul-2008, 06:16 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 30-Jul-2008, 03:27 PM)
Patch;

Either incorporate or rebel. If you choose rebel let me know I fought for you guys once I think I could do it again. Got admit though the years have put a lot of weight and aches that I didn't have the first time.



Camac.

They could always rebel against their Government and re-associate with the colonies. tongue.gif I can just imagine replacing the Stars with 50 little Maple Leaves.

What a warped thought. laugh.gif

Posted by: Camac 31-Jul-2008, 07:23 AM
QUOTE (oldraven @ 31-Jul-2008, 07:16 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 30-Jul-2008, 03:27 PM)
Patch;

Either incorporate or rebel. If you choose rebel let me know I fought for you guys once I think I could do it again. Got admit though the years have put a lot of weight and aches that I didn't have the first time.



Camac.

They could always rebel against their Government and re-associate with the colonies. tongue.gif I can just imagine replacing the Stars with 50 little Maple Leaves.

What a warped thought. laugh.gif

oldraven;

I like it.

Camac.

Posted by: John Clements 31-Jul-2008, 07:41 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 30-Jul-2008, 05:27 PM)
Patch;

Either incorporate or rebel. If you choose rebel let me know I fought for you guys once I think I could do it again. Got admit though the years have put a lot of weight and aches that I didn't have the first time.



Camac.

Rebel!!! You must be kidding? Bush is a uniter not a divider. I’m with you Dave. And I’ll hold you up if need be.
JC

Posted by: John Clements 04-Aug-2008, 07:42 AM
So what do you think, did the anthrax guy commit suicide, or did Jack Ruby strike again? (Isn’t it interesting…that only democrats got anthrax in the mail)?

Posted by: Patch 04-Aug-2008, 08:07 AM
We are not the only ones who noticed the Democrat connection. The administration needed the Democrats to support its acts of aggression. I question whether the guy did it or not. Imagine the stress of living under the weight of a full govt. investigation. I think most people would consider suicide! They were not able to solve it any other way but NOW it is solved.

Always love your country but NEVER trust your government!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 04-Aug-2008, 08:38 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 04-Aug-2008, 09:07 AM)


Always love your country but NEVER trust your government!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Amen!

JC

Soon I’m going to have to stop talking about this stuff. It’s a waist of breath.


Posted by: Camac 04-Aug-2008, 08:47 AM
J.C.

A suggestion. Throw the government out join Canada. We'll stick the Red Maple Leaf over the whole damn lot and tell the rest of the world to Kiss our Royal Backside.



Camac.

Posted by: John Clements 04-Aug-2008, 09:57 AM
Thanks Dave.

(Since I keep getting an error message when I try to post this on… “Who Are You Going To Vote For”, I posted it here.)

Patch; if I may draw an analogy? Way back when I was promoted to assistant art director from the “BULL PEN”, (another name for the art studio in an ad agency). I had the opportunity to work on the Magnavox account. (Which was pretty good, being the number three in seller at the time,) proceeded only by…if my memory serves me well…RCA, and some upstart called…SONY.

My point being, that I don’t think that Magnavox is even around anymore?

Tell you what Patch. You get the Constitution Party to guarantee “absolute”, (not the Vodka), separation of church and State, and leave Row V Wade alone, they could have a convert in me.

(The operative word being could.)

Please say I’m done for today.
JC

Posted by: Patch 04-Aug-2008, 10:15 AM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 04-Aug-2008, 11:57 AM)
Thanks Dave.

(Since I keep getting an error message when I try to post this on… “Who Are You Going To Vote For”, I posted it here.)

Patch; if I may draw an analogy? Way back when I was promoted to assistant art director from the “BULL PEN”, (another name for the art studio in an ad agency). I had the opportunity to work on the Magnavox account. (Which was pretty good, being the number three in seller at the time,) proceeded only by…if my memory serves me well…RCA, and some upstart called…SONY.

My point being, that I don’t think that Magnavox is even around anymore?

Tell you what Patch. You get the Constitution Party to guarantee “absolute”, (not the Vodka), separation of church and State, and leave Row V Wade alone, they could have a convert in me.

(The operative word being could.)

Please say I’m done for today.
JC

Only the Supreme Court can ever change Roe V Wade. The religious right does not support the Constitution Party and to my knowledge the party has never courted the support of the religious right. If you want to stop the "Pledge of Allegiance" or voluntary school prayer and the removal of "In God We Trust" from our money (etc.) Will not happen. The Constitution says that the Govt will not "establish "A" religion" as in Europe through history.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 05-Aug-2008, 10:08 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 04-Aug-2008, 11:15 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 04-Aug-2008, 11:57 AM)
Thanks Dave.

(Since I keep getting an error message when I try to post this on… “Who Are You Going To Vote For”, I posted it here.)

Patch; if I may draw an analogy? Way back when I was promoted to assistant art director from the “BULL PEN”, (another name for the art studio in an ad agency). I had the opportunity to work on the Magnavox account. (Which was pretty good, being the number three in seller at the time,) proceeded only by…if my memory serves me well…RCA, and some upstart called…SONY.

My point being, that I don’t think that Magnavox is even around anymore?

Tell you what Patch. You get the Constitution Party to guarantee “absolute”, (not the Vodka), separation of church and State, and leave Row V Wade alone, they could have a convert in me.

(The operative word being could.)

Please say I’m done for today.
JC

Only the Supreme Court can ever change Roe V Wade. The religious right does not support the Constitution Party and to my knowledge the party has never courted the support of the religious right. If you want to stop the "Pledge of Allegiance" or voluntary school prayer and the removal of "In God We Trust" from our money (etc.) Will not happen. The Constitution says that the Govt will not "establish "A" religion" as in Europe through history.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

For give me Patch, but I’m not sure I fully understand your response. Now I know that it’s up to the (so called Supreme Court), to over turn Row V Wade if it should decide to do so, but I can’t say that I would agree with that decision. Should it be based on ones religious beliefs? (On the other hand, I also know that a case can be maid that abortion is murder, and in some cases I would agree.) but I afraid that it’s just not that cut and dry.)
As to reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, and praying in school being voluntary? I don’t have a problem with that either. As long as it’s done silently, as not to offend any one else, who may think differently? And as to the removing “In God We Trust” from our currency, all I can say is… that it would save me from having to striking it out with a marker.
Sorry if some of you don’t like my thinking, but than this is supposed to be a free country, or at least I thought it was!

Freedom is terror, and vice a versa.
JC

Posted by: Patch 05-Aug-2008, 10:57 AM
Ok, as to abortion, the constitution guarantees the "right to life" of every individual so one could make the case that the Constitution Party is against abortion. I do not see it specifically addressed. The Supreme court will prevent any changes in our lifetimes. The Constitution does not say that there will be no religion involved in government. We volunteered to come here because in part of the imposition of a specific religion by England. That is why religion was addressed in founding our government. It does say that the government will not impose a religion or lack there of upon its citizens. IE: Religions such as Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Atheist, Wiccan, Catholic or etc. The Constitution guarantees us the right to choose. The government can make references to "a" God, the Ten Commandments and pray when they see fit. All of this falls under freedom of speech/expression. Nothing in the Constitution says you have to listen or participate but by the same token these things do not have to be silent. Income taxes are another thing prohibited by the Constitution. The amendment that allowed the income tax was never ratified. (That is why if you have enough money to fight the IRS, you will not have to pay taxes. It has been done)

The Constitution party stands for a return to the basic values/rights set forth in our Constitution, nothing more, nothing less!

Too many people today are demanding things that are not Constitutional rights but are illegal entitlements. (Legislation in violation of the Constitution.) All of these little things chip away at the government our founding fathers fought and died to give us. It has helped our government over the last 24 or more years to take from us the rights that are Constitutionally ours. We have traded little things of no importance over the years for BIG things and those trades are now rising up to bite us in the A-s

I know this will stir some things up.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 05-Aug-2008, 01:43 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 05-Aug-2008, 11:57 AM)
Ok, as to abortion, the constitution guarantees the "right to life" of every individual so one could make the case that the Constitution Party is against abortion. I do not see it specifically addressed. The Supreme court will prevent any changes in our lifetimes. The Constitution does not say that there will be no religion involved in government. We volunteered to come here because in part of the imposition of a specific religion by England. That is why religion was addressed in founding our government. It does say that the government will not impose a religion or lack there of upon its citizens. IE: Religions such as Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Atheist, Wiccan, Catholic or etc. The Constitution guarantees us the right to choose. The government can make references to "a" God, the Ten Commandments and pray when they see fit. All of this falls under freedom of speech/expression. Nothing in the Constitution says you have to listen or participate but by the same token these things do not have to be silent. Income taxes are another thing prohibited by the Constitution. The amendment that allowed the income tax was never ratified. (That is why if you have enough money to fight the IRS, you will not have to pay taxes. It has been done)

The Constitution party stands for a return to the basic values/rights set forth in our Constitution, nothing more, nothing less!

Too many people today are demanding things that are not Constitutional rights but are illegal entitlements. (Legislation in violation of the Constitution.) All of these little things chip away at the government our founding fathers fought and died to give us. It has helped our government over the last 24 or more years to take from us the rights that are Constitutionally ours. We have traded little things of no importance over the years for BIG things and those trades are now rising up to bite us in the A-s

I know this will stir some things up.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Why Patch!!! You could sell a bag of dirt, so keep going you’re man you’re convincing me. (And I mean that as a complement.)

My only problem with The Constitution Party is the same problem that I kept hearing about Dennis Kucinich, which was. That he didn’t have a chance. So knowing that going in…I’m afraid the only way back to the Constitution, (weather you can call it a Party or not) will have to be through Obama, or by any other means necessary, (much like our founding fathers did).

Thanks for the feed back,
JC

Posted by: Patch 05-Aug-2008, 02:11 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 05-Aug-2008, 03:43 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 05-Aug-2008, 11:57 AM)
Ok, as to abortion, the constitution guarantees the "right to life" of every individual so one could make the case that the Constitution Party is against abortion.  I do not see it specifically addressed.  The Supreme court will prevent any changes in our lifetimes.  The Constitution does not say that there will be no religion involved in government.  We volunteered to come here because in part of the imposition of a specific religion by England.  That is why religion was addressed in founding our government.  It does say that the government will not impose a religion or lack there of upon its citizens.  IE:  Religions such as Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Atheist, Wiccan, Catholic or etc.  The Constitution guarantees us the right to choose.  The government can make references to "a" God, the Ten Commandments and pray when they see fit.  All of this falls under freedom of speech/expression.  Nothing in the Constitution says you have to listen or participate but by the same token these things do not have to be silent.  Income taxes are another thing prohibited by the Constitution.  The amendment that allowed the income tax was never ratified.  (That is why if you have enough money to fight the IRS, you will not have to pay taxes.  It has been done)

The Constitution party stands for a return to the basic values/rights set forth in our Constitution, nothing more, nothing less!

Too many people today are demanding things that are not Constitutional rights but are illegal entitlements.  (Legislation in violation of the Constitution.)  All of these little things chip away at the government our founding fathers fought and died to give us.  It has helped our government over the last 24 or more years to take from us the rights that are Constitutionally ours.  We have traded little things of no importance over the years for BIG things and those trades are now rising up to bite us in the A-s

I know this will stir some things up.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Why Patch!!! You could sell a bag of dirt, so keep going you’re man you’re convincing me. (And I mean that as a complement.)

My only problem with The Constitution Party is the same problem that I kept hearing about Dennis Kucinich, which was. That he didn’t have a chance. So knowing that going in…I’m afraid the only way back to the Constitution, (weather you can call it a Party or not) will have to be through Obama, or by any other means necessary, (much like our founding fathers did).

Thanks for the feed back,
JC

I know little about Obama and he has a tremendous PR machine. Like bush when he ran for office, it is hard to find out Obama's REAL history. Yeah, we know how he voted in in Washington and the surface stuff but the rest is all white wash (no disrespect intended.) With McCain, we see all the "scabs and warts" which is really scary. He is running a "local" campaign as if for a Senate seat. Obama has orchestrated a massive world wide stage play. He is damn good at it too! Just remember, acting is not real substance.

Both by their nature will lead us further from the Constitutional rights we seek. Unfortunately only one of the two CAN win the election. If the Constitution party were to merge with the Libertarian party and Bob Barr were the candidate of choice with maybe Ron Paul as the VP there could be a major upset. Will not happen though. Even then if no party could garner enough Electoral College votes, your representatives would pick the president so guess what?! The system is designed to crush "third" parties.

I fear we will watch the "ship of state" point its nose skyward and slip below the waves. Unfortunately, those in power will steal everything of value, slip away in ALL of the lifeboats leaving the rest of us to the mercy of the sea!

By the way, I have been told that I could sell Bull S-it to dairy farmers. I hope that isn't a bad thing.

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 05-Aug-2008, 02:41 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 05-Aug-2008, 03:11 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 05-Aug-2008, 03:43 PM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 05-Aug-2008, 11:57 AM)
Ok, as to abortion, the constitution guarantees the "right to life" of every individual so one could make the case that the Constitution Party is against abortion.  I do not see it specifically addressed.  The Supreme court will prevent any changes in our lifetimes.  The Constitution does not say that there will be no religion involved in government.  We volunteered to come here because in part of the imposition of a specific religion by England.  That is why religion was addressed in founding our government.  It does say that the government will not impose a religion or lack there of upon its citizens.  IE:  Religions such as Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Atheist, Wiccan, Catholic or etc.  The Constitution guarantees us the right to choose.  The government can make references to "a" God, the Ten Commandments and pray when they see fit.  All of this falls under freedom of speech/expression.  Nothing in the Constitution says you have to listen or participate but by the same token these things do not have to be silent.  Income taxes are another thing prohibited by the Constitution.  The amendment that allowed the income tax was never ratified.  (That is why if you have enough money to fight the IRS, you will not have to pay taxes.  It has been done)

The Constitution party stands for a return to the basic values/rights set forth in our Constitution, nothing more, nothing less!

Too many people today are demanding things that are not Constitutional rights but are illegal entitlements.  (Legislation in violation of the Constitution.)  All of these little things chip away at the government our founding fathers fought and died to give us.  It has helped our government over the last 24 or more years to take from us the rights that are Constitutionally ours.  We have traded little things of no importance over the years for BIG things and those trades are now rising up to bite us in the A-s

I know this will stir some things up.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Why Patch!!! You could sell a bag of dirt, so keep going you’re man you’re convincing me. (And I mean that as a complement.)

My only problem with The Constitution Party is the same problem that I kept hearing about Dennis Kucinich, which was. That he didn’t have a chance. So knowing that going in…I’m afraid the only way back to the Constitution, (weather you can call it a Party or not) will have to be through Obama, or by any other means necessary, (much like our founding fathers did).

Thanks for the feed back,
JC

I know little about Obama and he has a tremendous PR machine. Like bush when he ran for office, it is hard to find out Obama's REAL history. Yeah, we know how he voted in in Washington and the surface stuff but the rest is all white wash (no disrespect intended.) With McCain, we see all the "scabs and warts" which is really scary. He is running a "local" campaign as if for a Senate seat. Obama has orchestrated a massive world wide stage play. He is damn good at it too! Just remember, acting is not real substance.

Both by their nature will lead us further from the Constitutional rights we seek. Unfortunately only one of the two CAN win the election. If the Constitution party were to merge with the Libertarian party and Bob Barr were the candidate of choice with maybe Ron Paul as the VP there could be a major upset. Will not happen though. Even then if no party could garner enough Electoral College votes, your representatives would pick the president so guess what?! The system is designed to crush "third" parties.

I fear we will watch the "ship of state" point its nose skyward and slip below the waves. Unfortunately, those in power will steal everything of value, slip away in ALL of the lifeboats leaving the rest of us to the mercy of the sea!

By the way, I have been told that I could sell Bull S-it to dairy farmers. I hope that isn't a bad thing.

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

Wow…agreement all around. By the way, how much is that bag of BS going for? My Roses are looking a little peeked. (If that how you spell it?)

JC

Posted by: Patch 05-Aug-2008, 03:08 PM
Best spelling I could do! I use spell check when possible and sometimes if still in doubt I type it in an E-mail and check. My E-mail has a bigger dictionary than CR. By the way, the BS is "free for the taking!" The "gift of Gab" is necessary when you are knocking on doors "cold" in an election campaign.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Jillian 05-Aug-2008, 08:14 PM
QUOTE
I know little about Obama and he has a tremendous PR machine. Like bush when he ran for office, it is hard to find out Obama's REAL history. Yeah, we know how he voted in in Washington and the surface stuff but the rest is all white wash (no disrespect intended.) With McCain, we see all the "scabs and warts" which is really scary. He is running a "local" campaign as if for a Senate seat. Obama has orchestrated a massive world wide stage play. He is damn good at it too! Just remember, acting is not real substance.


Ohhh Patch! I was all excited checking out the Constitution Party! Now I feel hopeless and depressed again. Every 4 years I go through this...my heart says, "have hope, be informed, vote responsibly"...and my head says, "Fugettaboutit, there'll never be a 3rd party win". It's kind of like being in a bad relationship...you keep thinking/hoping things will change...but the leopard never changes it's spots!

I hate voting for the lesser of two evils. I always feel as though I'm betraying myself!

Jillian

Posted by: Patch 05-Aug-2008, 08:46 PM
QUOTE (Jillian @ 05-Aug-2008, 10:14 PM)

Ohhh Patch! I was all excited checking out the Constitution Party! Now I feel hopeless and depressed again. Every 4 years I go through this...my heart says, "have hope, be informed, vote responsibly"...and my head says, "Fugettaboutit, there'll never be a 3rd party win". It's kind of like being in a bad relationship...you keep thinking/hoping things will change...but the leopard never changes it's spots!

I hate voting for the lesser of two evils. I always feel as though I'm betraying myself!

Jillian

Since Ross Perrot, they made it harder, but had it not been for the tale about the govt planning to ruin his daughters wedding he could have won!! The lesser of two evils is still and always will be an evil. I will vote for other than the two main parties and this will be the last campaign I work for. My kids will keep up the "good" fight though!

Always be sure to vote!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Dogshirt 05-Aug-2008, 10:02 PM
QUOTE
Since Ross Perrot, they made it harder, but had it not been for the tale about the govt planning to ruin his daughters wedding he could have won!! The lesser of two evils is still and always will be an evil. I will vote for other than the two main parties and this will be the last campaign I work for. My kids will keep up the "good" fight though!

Always be sure to vote!!

Slàinte,   

Patch   


What cost Perrot his chance was his constant "I'm in...I'm out...I'm in ...I'm out...I MIGHT be in." If he had stayed the course he would have made it.


beer_mug.gif

Posted by: Patch 06-Aug-2008, 02:28 PM
AN INTERESTING HISTORY LESSON RE: TODAYS R.R. SPECIFICATIOINS.

Railroad tracks. This is fascinating.

Be sure to read the final paragraph; your understanding of it will depend on
the earlier part of the content.

The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used?
Because that's the way they built them in England , and English expatriates built the US railroads.
Why did th e English build them like that?

Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did 'they' use that gauge then?
Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing?
Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England , because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads?
Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (and England ) for their legions. The roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads?
Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts,
which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels. Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome , they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Bureaucracies live forever.

So the next time you are handed a Specification/ Procedure/ Process and wonder 'What horse's ass came up with it?' you may be exactly right.
Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses' asses.) Now, the twist to the story:

When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRB's. The SRB's are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah . The engineers who designed the SRB's would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRB's had to be shipped by train from
the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains, and the SRB's had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's ass. And you thought being a horse's ass wasn't important? Ancient horse's asses control almost everything.. . and CURRENT Horses Asses are controlling everything else.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 06-Aug-2008, 02:35 PM
QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 06-Aug-2008, 12:02 AM)
QUOTE
Since Ross Perrot, they made it harder, but had it not been for the tale about the govt planning to ruin his daughters wedding he could have won!! The lesser of two evils is still and always will be an evil. I will vote for other than the two main parties and this will be the last campaign I work for. My kids will keep up the "good" fight though!

Always be sure to vote!!

Slàinte,   

Patch    


What cost Perrot his chance was his constant "I'm in...I'm out...I'm in ...I'm out...I MIGHT be in." If he had stayed the course he would have made it.


beer_mug.gif

The thing that really lost it for Perrot was when he said the Secret Service was planning to disrupt his daughters wedding and "again" he dropped out to protect her. At that point most people figured he was more than a few cards shy of a full deck and he was finished! People today agree that McCain is a few cards shy, and they are willing to accept him. What happened?!

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

Posted by: Camac 06-Aug-2008, 03:37 PM
Talk about being in a rut.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 06-Aug-2008, 05:29 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 06-Aug-2008, 05:37 PM)
Talk about being in a rut.


Camac.

Yes, you are right!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Dogshirt 06-Aug-2008, 05:42 PM
QUOTE

The thing that really lost it for Perrot was when he said the Secret Service was planning to disrupt his daughters wedding and "again" he dropped out to protect her. At that point most people figured he was more than a few cards shy of a full deck and he was finished! People today agree that McCain is a few cards shy, and they are willing to accept him. What happened?!

Slàinte, 

Patch   


He's still in and not waffeling, that make's a difference. And just for the record, I have backed him for 12 years, I DON"T find him a few shy, I see him as the ONLY viable candidate!


beer_mug.gif

Posted by: Patch 06-Aug-2008, 10:58 PM
QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 06-Aug-2008, 07:42 PM)
QUOTE

The thing that really lost it for Perrot was when he said the Secret Service was planning to disrupt his daughters wedding and "again" he dropped out to protect her. At that point most people figured he was more than a few cards shy of a full deck and he was finished! People today agree that McCain is a few cards shy, and they are willing to accept him. What happened?!

Slàinte,  

Patch    


He's still in and not waffeling, that make's a difference. And just for the record, I have backed him for 12 years, I DON"T find him a few shy, I see him as the ONLY viable candidate!


beer_mug.gif

I live in a rural Republican community and I can only speak for the opinions of those here. Most here, both disillusioned R's and D's are leaning toward Bob Barr. There are many more than in any past election. I will be working for Chuck Baldwin. I only wish my party would have run Bob Barr or Ron Paul. Dr Baldwin is an excellent candidate but has no name recognition. Considering McCains emotional loss of control on the Senate floor over the last 8 years (maybe longer) I could not vote for him even if he were a conservative. I was a Republican until 8 years ago. Now I consider myself a Conservative, and there is a big difference lately.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 11-Aug-2008, 12:02 PM
Russian troops invaded South Ossetia, Georgia, on the same pretense Hitler used to invade Czechoslovakia. Is history repeating it's self? The major world powers have remained relatively silent as they did with Hitler!

Slàinte,    

Patch    


Posted by: Camac 11-Aug-2008, 12:26 PM
QUOTE (Patch @ 11-Aug-2008, 01:02 PM)
Russian troops invaded South Ossetia, Georgia, on the same pretense Hitler used to invade Czechoslovakia.  Is history repeating it's self?  The major world powers have remained relatively silent as they did with Hitler!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Patch;

It seems that it is my friend. Sometimes not often I get so despondent over this old world I think someone should pull the plug and lets start over. Then I realize that in most cases we would still make the same idiotic moves. What the Hey, maybe there is still time for redemption and we will smarten up.

Camac.

PS. Is Putin another clone of Georgie? tank.gif tomcat.gif war.gif

Posted by: Patch 11-Aug-2008, 01:53 PM
I remember in the bush first term when bush said he looked into Putin's eyes and saw a decent and honorable man. Putin had been the head of the KGB!!! In at least that one instance, bush slipped below moronic!


Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Jillian 11-Aug-2008, 05:55 PM
QUOTE
Considering McCains emotional loss of control on the Senate floor over the last 8 years (maybe longer) I could not vote for him even if he were a conservative. I was a Republican until 8 years ago. Now I consider myself a Conservative, and there is a big difference lately.


I lived in Arizona for 7 years and that's why I'm not a McCain fan. Also been a Republican all my life...but now I don't identify with anything but being conservative....not to be confused w/rigid naughty.gif !!!

Jillian

Posted by: Patch 11-Aug-2008, 06:46 PM
QUOTE (Jillian @ 11-Aug-2008, 07:55 PM)

I lived in Arizona for 7 years and that's why I'm not a McCain fan. Also been a Republican all my life...but now I don't identify with anything but being conservative....not to be confused w/rigid naughty.gif !!!

Jillian

I know where you are coming from! I also am not "the religious right." Being from Arizona you probably know more about him than I do. I would imagine you hear more about Dan and Marilyn Quayle than the rest of us do. That man could relate some tales re: the current president. He has taken the moral high road though and said little.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 12-Aug-2008, 07:24 AM
Yesterday bush sternly told
Russia they had better not attack the Georgian Capitol. (They have already laid waste to the country side and the OIL PIPELINE!) That will drive prices up again.

When bush looked into Putin's eyes and saw a "decent and honorable man" he set a standard that he now should be explaining to the free world.

Georgia is a member of NATO and they have already said they will not help. The UN can not help and the free world can help only if they wish to instigate WW3 and "Global Thermonuclear Hell."

This began with short sighted individuals that wanted a global free trade economy. We laid ourselves open to orchestrated financial destruction and that is now WELL under way!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 12-Aug-2008, 07:50 AM
Patch;

Georgia isn't a member of NATO yet it has applied for membership. Some say this is Russia telling them to drop the application also this is a warning to other East European Nations that want to join Nato. Lets face it Putin and Georgie were hatched from the same egg. If Putin is an honourable man then this is the Death of Honour as we know it.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 12-Aug-2008, 08:05 AM
I picked up the NATO membership and lack of support information as I was posting this AM. The news isn't always right. Unfortunately, bush reinforced the thinking of many of our Allies that we can not be counted on when the chips are down. We are a paper tiger of sorts. I think Putin's honor was only in the eyes and small mind of bush. I certainly knew better.

Slàinte,    

Patch    


Posted by: Jillian 12-Aug-2008, 06:16 PM
I don't think anyone ever really trusted Putin...not even George. I think George was trying to play a "pleasant politics" role that really isn't his game. George is one gear...open mouth, sound illiterately tough, and then wait for war so he can send in the military. He's never been able to be "diplomatic"...playing war chess is where this game is at. We need someone who can back someone down w/brains not brawn.

I don't know what you guys think but I think if Condaleeza Rice were allowed to make decisions her way, she would've been smart enough to appear diplomatic but play the war chess game well....your thoughts?

Jillian

Posted by: Camac 12-Aug-2008, 06:21 PM
THE U.S.S.R. is gone but now methinks we will see the rise of "The Russian Hegemony". Georgia is the first step.



Camac.

Posted by: Jillian 12-Aug-2008, 06:24 PM
Would this be the "Bitter, Cold War"?

Jillian

Posted by: Jillian 12-Aug-2008, 06:26 PM
Camac....they could throw snowballs at one another....Jillian

Posted by: Camac 12-Aug-2008, 06:35 PM
QUOTE (Jillian @ 12-Aug-2008, 07:26 PM)
Camac....they could throw snowballs at one another....Jillian

What snow? It's all melting.


Camac.

Posted by: Jillian 12-Aug-2008, 06:47 PM
Oh that's right! Oh no, not even the Cold War can be the Cold War! Maybe the "Moderately Cold War"...I have Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons in my head right now...how the narrator always had that 1950's voice narration..what was the Russian's name? Ivan? Narrator: "As Rocky and Bullwinkle press on to defend the free world, the Cold War waged on until it became the Moderately Cold War, and later the not so cold war at all..."

sorry....rough day at work...

Jillian

Posted by: John Clements 13-Aug-2008, 07:59 AM
The words “high ground” is now only a military term, (certainly not a moral one), at least not since the invasion, and occupation of Iraq.
The burners are turning up on the so called cold war. My only problem is…I’m not sure who the bully is anymore?
JC

Posted by: Camac 13-Aug-2008, 01:53 PM
JC.

There are three bullys in the playground ; Chin, Russ, and Sam.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 13-Aug-2008, 02:44 PM
Though China and Russia are not on the best terms, it is still two against one.

Slàinte,       

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 13-Aug-2008, 05:04 PM
Both of you are right, but not to worry ….

http://www.truemajorityaction.org/postcard/index_patton.php

Posted by: Patch 13-Aug-2008, 06:26 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 13-Aug-2008, 07:04 PM)
Both of you are right, but not to worry ….

http://www.truemajorityaction.org/postcard/index_patton.php

I think we gave China enough technology to get nuclear missiles here and of course Russia has plenty. Then there are the countries, Pakistan, India, North Korea and Israel. THAT would generate some global warming for a while and then we would have a nuclear "winter." I doubt it would matter to us!!

Slàinte,       

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 13-Aug-2008, 06:34 PM
Patch;

Remember the DUCK and COVER adds. Duck and cover your head. (kiss your butt good-bye)



Camac.

Posted by: Patch 13-Aug-2008, 06:48 PM
Remember that and I remember the "wooden" shelter plans for your basement. That would have ignited in a flash. In school we were to get under our desks.

Slàinte,       

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 13-Aug-2008, 07:04 PM
Patch;

It were to happen and I'm still around I'll just go up on the building roof and count mushrooms until the end.

Camac.

Posted by: Patch 13-Aug-2008, 07:07 PM
That sounds like a plan!!

Slàinte,       

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 13-Aug-2008, 07:12 PM

Yeah you will more than likely see me glowing even out there in the American Mid-West.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 13-Aug-2008, 07:16 PM
I should make a really nice flash when the heat reaches me.

Slàinte,       

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 13-Aug-2008, 08:19 PM
I think I’ll run the air conditioner on high tonight.

JC

Posted by: Patch 13-Aug-2008, 08:29 PM
That should work as well as the wooden shelter in the basement or "Duck and Cover"

Slàinte,       

Patch    

Posted by: Patch 14-Aug-2008, 05:23 AM

"If it be asked what is to restrain the House of Representatives
from making legal discriminations in favor of themselves and
a particular class of the society? I answer, the genius of the
whole system, the nature of just and constitutional laws, and
above all the vigilant and manly spirit which actuates the people
of America, a spirit which nourishes freedom, and in return is
nourished by it."

-- James Madison (Federalist No. 57, 19 February 1788)

Reference: Madison, Federalist No. 57.

That was an idea that didn't work!!

Slàinte,       

Patch    

Posted by: Camac 14-Aug-2008, 06:40 AM
Patch;

In this modern world we cannot have Athenian like Democracy but instead opt for a representative type. This in itself makes for a breeding ground of corruption and abuse. Lawyers write the Laws for Lawyers to pass and only they understand what it entails. The ordinary citizen would be total confused with in seconds of trying to decypher a Government Bill. I would assume that in the beginning of your Republic there was little chance of abuse as the Government was relatively small. It was only when the Republic started to expand both in population and in size that the opportunities for grabbing power became easier. As an outsider looking in I see a system that "He who has the most money behind him becomes President" it doesn't matter what the People want. Your Electoral college has to go it has long outlived its day and it is not representative of the People in fact it undermines the will of the majority. The two party system also has to go as it limits the choice people have and in reality behind closed doors they are the same horse different colour.

Camac

Posted by: John Clements 14-Aug-2008, 07:41 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 14-Aug-2008, 07:40 AM)
Patch;

In this modern world we cannot have Athenian like Democracy but instead opt for a representative type. This in itself makes for a breeding ground of corruption and abuse. Lawyers write the Laws for Lawyers to pass and only they understand what it entails. The ordinary citizen would be total confused with in seconds of trying to decypher a Government Bill. I would assume that in the beginning of your Republic there was little chance of abuse as the Government was relatively small. It was only when the Republic started to expand both in population and in size that the opportunities for grabbing power became easier. As an outsider looking in I see a system that "He who has the most money behind him becomes President" it doesn't matter what the People want. Your Electoral college has to go it has long outlived its day and it is not representative of the People in fact it undermines the will of the majority. The two party system also has to go as it limits the choice people have and in reality behind closed doors they are the same horse different colour.

Camac

Exactly correct Dave. But if you were a younger man, (let’s say by some 25 years), and had been raised here in the US. The chances are good, that you may not have gleaned what you know, or even have been taught that you are allowed to think differently. (Sorry Dave I know you know that.)
My understanding of the laws is that it only applies to us. This two party system is really a one system, dedicated to keeping it that way.
I think what we need is a damp blackboard eraser.
JC

Posted by: Camac 14-Aug-2008, 08:07 AM
JC.

I'll joke around and say things like "maybe you guys need another revolution" but I am not an advocate of the overthrown of a legally elected government what ever their stripe. I am an advocate of making that Government totally accountable to the people. The problem is that in order to have that accountability you have to have people watching the government then you need people to watch those people who need people to watch them Ad Nauseum. I don't know what the solution is. Even up here we have a minority government that has the attitude "screw you" we are the government and we will govern whether you like it or not. Our only recourse is a vote of non-confidence which triggers an election and puts the next group of idiots in or the same ones get a majority. Conundrum EH!.



Camac.

Posted by: Patch 14-Aug-2008, 09:19 AM
If we could develop a strong third party here in America that would prevent any one party from gaining enough power to control the Government our system could be improved. It could allow presidents to run wild as the present one has but I think that will happen anyway. The last few presidents have each strayed further from the Constitution than his predecessor. I expect that to continue!

Slàinte,       

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 14-Aug-2008, 09:58 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 14-Aug-2008, 09:07 AM)
JC.

I'll joke around and say things like "maybe you guys need another revolution" but I am not an advocate of the overthrown of a legally elected government what ever their stripe. I am an advocate of making that Government totally accountable to the people. The problem is that in order to have that accountability you have to have people watching the government then you need people to watch those people who need people to watch them Ad Nauseum. I don't know what the solution is. Even up here we have a minority government that has the attitude "screw you" we are the government and we will govern whether you like it or not. Our only recourse is a vote of non-confidence which triggers an election and puts the next group of idiots in or the same ones get a majority. Conundrum EH!.



Camac.

So you’re saying we’re just supposed bend over and take it?
What I want to know is, when are we going to start rallying around the truth, instead of the money?

A side note:

I believe that tomorrow is the anniversary of the big black out, and I said to say that you can blame me for it. Because the power went off the very instant I plugged in the Iron!

JC

Posted by: Camac 14-Aug-2008, 10:27 AM
JC;

No John I'm not saying to sit back and take it. I'm saying that I don't know the solution. A multi-party system might be the solution. We have 5 parties here and of course independents. One of the problems in our system is crossing the floor. A riding elects a Liberal or Consevative or what ever he gets PO ed and walks across the floor to another party,usually the one in power. To hell with the voters.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 14-Aug-2008, 10:35 AM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 14-Aug-2008, 11:58 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 14-Aug-2008, 09:07 AM)
JC.

I'll joke around and say things like "maybe you guys need another revolution" but I am not an advocate of the overthrown of a legally elected government what ever their stripe. I am an advocate of making that Government totally accountable to the people. The problem is that in order to have that accountability you have to have people watching the government then you need people to watch those people who need people to watch them Ad Nauseum. I don't know what the solution is. Even up here we have a minority government that has the attitude "screw you" we are the government and we will govern whether you like it or not. Our only recourse is a vote of non-confidence which triggers an election and puts the next group of idiots in or the same ones get a majority. Conundrum EH!.



Camac.

So you’re saying we’re just supposed bend over and take it?
What I want to know is, when are we going to start rallying around the truth, instead of the money?

A side note:

I believe that tomorrow is the anniversary of the big black out, and I said to say that you can blame me for it. Because the power went off the very instant I plugged in the Iron!

JC

I hope the people wake up and vote the crooks out. When the Democrats took power in the legislature they said there would be changes coming! There were!! Now the Democrats are sealing most of the money instead of the Republicans. It has been that way for years and I expect it to continue. I expect Stevens ® from Alaska to get jail time. An oil exec. spent 250K on Stevens house in renovations and Stevens didn't question it!! If someone spent 50 dollars on my hovel, I would want to know who, when and why!!

Slàinte,       

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 14-Aug-2008, 02:06 PM
QUOTE (Camac @ 14-Aug-2008, 11:27 AM)
JC;

No John I'm not saying to sit back and take it. I'm saying that I don't know the solution. A multi-party system might be the solution. We have 5 parties here and of course independents. One of the problems in our system is crossing the floor. A riding elects a Liberal or Consevative or what ever he gets PO ed and walks across the floor to another party,usually the one in power. To hell with the voters.


Camac.

Oh!
Why didn’t you say that in the place first? (Kidding of course)

This nonsense could make me pull my hair out.

Life goes on…

You know you divert your eyes for a few seconds, and the next thing you know? The Russians starts a war Georgia. I mean you’d think the Georgians had weapons of mass destruction or something? Oh…right we hadn’t provided them yet!

Hang in,
JC

Posted by: Patch 14-Aug-2008, 02:19 PM
QUOTE (John Clements @ 14-Aug-2008, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 14-Aug-2008, 11:27 AM)
JC;

No John I'm not saying to sit back and take it. I'm saying that I don't know the solution. A multi-party system might be the solution. We have 5 parties here and of course independents. One of the problems in our system is crossing the floor. A riding elects a Liberal or Consevative or what ever he gets PO ed and walks across the floor to another party,usually the one in power. To hell with the voters.


Camac.

Oh!
Why didn’t you say that in the place first? (Kidding of course)

This nonsense could make me pull my hair out.

Life goes on…

You know you divert your eyes for a few seconds, and the next thing you know? The Russians starts a war Georgia. I mean you’d think the Georgians had weapons of mass destruction or something? Oh…right we hadn’t provided them yet!

Hang in,
JC

I thought the Georgian Republic was one of the areas that was holding Russian nukes but I do not know what happened to them. Obviously the Russians were more numerous and better armed. What if Rice is "accidentally" killed or wounded while she is there? I am suprised we are sending any "official" to Georgia.

Putin is FAR more dangerous than any leader in the USSR since Stalin! Maybe he is worse than Stalin. He certainly suckered our little bush!

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

Posted by: Camac 14-Aug-2008, 06:29 PM
Patch;

Methinks Putin sees himself as the possible new Tsar.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 14-Aug-2008, 07:11 PM
Yep. We find now that all of those tanks moved to the borders of Georgia and we didnt see it. So much for Satelites and CIA.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Posted by: John Clements 14-Aug-2008, 09:18 PM
According to the BBC...the Russian military thinks they should withdraw Gerogia until the area is secure. Now where have we heard that be for?

JC

Posted by: John Clements 15-Aug-2008, 08:32 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 14-Aug-2008, 03:19 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 14-Aug-2008, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 14-Aug-2008, 11:27 AM)
JC;

No John I'm not saying to sit back and take it. I'm saying that I don't know the solution. A multi-party system might be the solution. We have 5 parties here and of course independents. One of the problems in our system is crossing the floor. A riding elects a Liberal or Consevative or what ever he gets PO ed and walks across the floor to another party,usually the one in power. To hell with the voters.


Camac.

Oh!
Why didn’t you say that in the place first? (Kidding of course)

This nonsense could make me pull my hair out.

Life goes on…

You know you divert your eyes for a few seconds, and the next thing you know? The Russians starts a war Georgia. I mean you’d think the Georgians had weapons of mass destruction or something? Oh…right we hadn’t provided them yet!

Hang in,
JC

I thought the Georgian Republic was one of the areas that was holding Russian nukes but I do not know what happened to them. Obviously the Russians were more numerous and better armed. What if Rice is "accidentally" killed or wounded while she is there? I am suprised we are sending any "official" to Georgia.

Putin is FAR more dangerous than any leader in the USSR since Stalin! Maybe he is worse than Stalin. He certainly suckered our little bush!

Slàinte,   

 Patch    

You know Patch you may be on to something there, should Rice be "accidently" killed, because that would be one less person the shrub would have to pardon, to cover his you know what.

JC

Posted by: Camac 15-Aug-2008, 09:06 AM
JC.

Your a hard man. A good looking woman like Rice being accidentally killed.
Where's your Chivalry.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 15-Aug-2008, 09:32 AM
I am listening to the news now (cease fire) and Rice has bigger "you know what's" than bush!! According to the documentation of the lead up to the invasion the world stood silent while controllable events that led up to it took place. Each country for it's own reasons, including the US. Sort of reminiscent of A. Hitler and his plan!

Slàinte,    

Patch      

Posted by: Camac 15-Aug-2008, 09:48 AM
Patch;

Bush playing Chamberlain. Appeasement (Peace in our Time). EEE Gads.!



Camac.

Posted by: Patch 15-Aug-2008, 10:30 AM
As with Hitler, the US and Europe let Russia believe they would not interfere and now short of nuclear holocaust we can not interfere. Bush is now denouncing Russia though only weakly. He certainly isn't JFK!! Russia has wealth in natural resources and man power. We and the UK have become borrower nations since the conflict in the middle east. It certainly does not bode well for the free world.

Slàinte,   

 Patch      

Posted by: John Clements 15-Aug-2008, 10:33 AM
QUOTE (Camac @ 15-Aug-2008, 10:06 AM)
JC.

Your a hard man. A good looking woman like Rice being accidentally killed.
Where's your Chivalry.


Camac.

Hi Dave;
It’s must be hiding somewhere in the house. Along with the stapler, the poultry scissor, my tape measure, and numerous other items that have mysteriously disappeared over the years.
Truth is my Chivalry is alive and well, (why it a birth right for all woman), unless of course she does something to loose it.

I hat using a heat gun to strip paint,
later,
JC

Posted by: Patch 15-Aug-2008, 10:59 AM
It is nice to know things "hide" in other peoples houses too!

Slàinte,    

Patch      

Posted by: Camac 15-Aug-2008, 11:36 AM
QUOTE (Patch @ 15-Aug-2008, 11:59 AM)
It is nice to know things "hide" in other peoples houses too!

Slàinte,    

Patch      

Patch;

Yeah1 I swear there is a secret colony of missing things in my place.


Camac.

Posted by: Patch 15-Aug-2008, 11:40 AM
Right now, as an example, I have three battery chargers. In December I had none. It is about time for them to sneak away again!

Slàinte,    

Patch      

Posted by: Camac 15-Aug-2008, 11:49 AM
Patch;
Have you also noticed that when you really need something you can't find it and when you don't need it, it jumps up and bites you.


Camac

Posted by: Patch 15-Aug-2008, 12:01 PM
YES! That is why I have all three battery chargers now.

Slàinte,    

Patch      

Posted by: Patch 15-Aug-2008, 12:04 PM
BREAKING NEWS!! "Mrs. Fields Famous Cookies" is filing for bankruptcy. Whatever is the world coming to!

Slàinte,    

Patch      

Posted by: Dogshirt 15-Aug-2008, 02:00 PM
QUOTE

Hi Dave;
It’s must be hiding somewhere in the house. Along with the stapler, the poultry scissor, my tape measure, and numerous other items that have mysteriously disappeared over the years.
Truth is my Chivalry is alive and well, (why it a birth right for all woman), unless of course she does something to loose it.

I hat using a heat gun to strip paint,
later,
JC



If I ever find "Somewhere" I'll find ALL the things I've ever owned!


beer_mug.gif

Posted by: Patch 15-Aug-2008, 02:25 PM
Then you will not have a place to put them all.

Slàinte,    

Patch      

Posted by: John Clements 15-Aug-2008, 02:52 PM
News flash……………
To men have come forward with the body of a Big Foot they found in the woods of North West Georgia. It looks like the real thing from the picture I’ve seen. DNA samples have been taken. I guess we’ll know soon enough?
JC

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