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JACOBITE 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 02:24 AM
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I think a lot of this is a matter of opinion.I have travelled in the USA and Canada and yes sometimes there is a misty eyed view of Scotland but whats wrong with that.
Many people in Scotland think the USA has a huge hot beach and theme park in Florida and maybe some shops in NY.Thats no more the real USA than Glencoe is the real Scotland.
Scotland is moving on but so are other countries.However I believe our culture remains strong whether through our music or the way that many of us view ourselves as a country now and our place in the world.
A friend of mine explains it best when he told me "The USA is my country of birth and I love it dearly but Scotland is where my blood comes from"
I can understand that.Scotland now has many new Scots living here and while they are Scots they also remember the traditions of the countries where their parents or grandparents came from.
And I would hope that any visitor coming to Scotland to seek out their roots and see where their family came from would be treated with the same respect I have always been treated with while attending games and visiting in the USA or Canada and if they are not then we in Scotland have a lesson to learn from our cousins.

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Teriodin 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 03:08 AM
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I think retaining your culture and heritage once you leave your country of origin is natural and laudable.

Scotland has seen an influx of Asians over the last 30 years and a good curry is becoming part of our national diet, but the asians retain their own culture, language and mode of dress.

Why should Scots and their descendents abroad not do likewise?

I have heard the 'plastic scots' debate before in pubs and at family gatherings, yet every one of them admitted that they would not stop being Scottish if they moved abroad and that they'd tell their children they were Scots too.

I think some of it may be that our trans-atlantic cousins make more of an effort to keep Alba's heritage alive than her current residents and this perhaps makes some of the locals feel bad.

Mocking something is always good for assuaging your guilt, eh? angel_not.gif


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Camac
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 07:26 AM
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Jacobite & Teriodin;

I read both your post and I see that there are people who understand what it means to those of us who are part of the Diaspora. I wrote a poem in Celtic Hearts called "Twixt Two" maybe that will explain how I and alot of others feel.


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 08:42 AM
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JACOBITE Posted on 22-Aug-2008, 03:24 AM
Scotland now has many new Scots living here and while they are Scots they also remember the traditions of the countries where their parents or grandparents came from.
And I would hope that any visitor coming to Scotland to seek out their roots and see where their family came from would be treated with the same respect I have always been treated with while attending games and visiting in the USA or Canada and if they are not then we in Scotland have a lesson to learn from our cousins.


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Teriodin Posted on 22-Aug-2008, 04:08 AM
  I think retaining your culture and heritage once you leave your country of origin is natural and laudable.

Scotland has seen an influx of Asians over the last 30 years and a good curry is becoming part of our national diet, but the asians retain their own culture, language and mode of dress.

Why should Scots and their descendents abroad not do likewise?

I have heard the 'plastic scots' debate before in pubs and at family gatherings, yet every one of them admitted that they would not stop being Scottish if they moved abroad and that they'd tell their children they were Scots too.

I think some of it may be that our trans-atlantic cousins make more of an effort to keep Alba's heritage alive than her current residents and this perhaps makes some of the locals feel bad.


Jacobite & Teriodin,

I really appreciate your point of view about the beautiful culture of the Scots and one can read you open mind on how the Canadians and Americans of Scottish descents feel in their bones. Roots is the key word here.

Thank you, LOA smile.gif



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glaswegian 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (Teriodin @ 22-Aug-2008, 03:08 AM)


I think some of it may be that our trans-atlantic cousins make more of an effort to keep Alba's heritage alive than her current residents and this perhaps makes some of the locals feel bad.


Do you mean highland games, bagpipes and kilts.

I would hardly call that scottish culture.
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John Clements 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE (JACOBITE @ 22-Aug-2008, 02:24 AM)
I think a lot of this is a matter of opinion.I have travelled in the USA and Canada and yes sometimes there is a misty eyed view of Scotland but whats wrong with that.
Many people in Scotland think the USA has a huge hot beach and theme park in Florida and maybe some shops in NY.Thats no more the real USA than Glencoe is the real Scotland.
Scotland is moving on but so are other countries.However I believe our culture remains strong whether through our music or the way that many of us view ourselves as a country now and our place in the world.
A friend of mine explains it best when he told me "The USA is my country of birth and I love it dearly but Scotland is where my blood comes from"
I can understand that.Scotland now has many new Scots living here and while they are Scots they also remember the traditions of the countries where their parents or grandparents came from.
And I would hope that any visitor coming to Scotland to seek out their roots and see where their family came from would be treated with the same respect I have always been treated with while attending games and visiting in the USA or Canada and if they are not then we in Scotland have a lesson to learn from our cousins.

Well said!
JC


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glaswegian 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 06:24 PM
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Coming from the westcoast of scotland, we have hundreds of thousands of scots whos' ancestors were irish. While a lot of them are proud of this fact, I have never met a scotsman who described himself as irish. to call oneselve irish because they had irish ancestors 2 -3 generations ago would be even more ridculous.

being proud of your scots heritage is one thing, calling yourself a scot is another thing all together.

Anyway I dont want to sound like a broken record, so I will have to agree to disagree. I would advise actually listening to how the scots feel. The scots are not over sentimental like the americans and canadians seem to be about scotland, i.e crying when listining to bagpipes or writing poems. I am not having a dig. But it is very obvious that the perceptions of scotland are completely differant between scots and non scots.

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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 07:24 PM)
Coming from the westcoast of scotland, we have hundreds of thousands of scots whos' ancestors were irish. While a lot of them are proud of this fact, I have never met a scotsman who described himself as irish. to call oneselve irish because they had irish ancestors 2 -3 generations ago would be even more ridculous.

being proud of your scots heritage is one thing, calling yourself a scot is another thing all together.

Anyway I dont want to sound like a broken record, so I will have to agree to disagree. I would advise actually listening to how the scots feel. The scots are not over sentimental like the americans and canadians seem to be about scotland, i.e crying when listining to bagpipes or writing poems. I am not having a dig. But it is very obvious that the perceptions of scotland are completely differant between scots and non scots.

My dear friend for one proud scot that you pretend to be why then are you arboring the British flag on your profile.... and not the Scottish one?

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Camac
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 07:10 PM
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LOA;

My Lady, let off the glaswegian I opened that topic to get some fruitful discussion not for some selfcentred cocky know it all 25 year old to insult people. Let the Topic die.



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glaswegian 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 07:16 PM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 22-Aug-2008, 06:57 PM)
QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 07:24 PM)
Coming from the westcoast of scotland, we have hundreds of thousands of scots whos' ancestors were irish. While a lot of them are proud of this fact, I have never met a scotsman who described himself as irish. to call oneselve irish because they had irish ancestors 2 -3 generations ago would be even more ridculous.

being proud of your scots heritage is one thing, calling yourself a scot is another thing all together.

Anyway I dont want to sound like a broken record, so I will have to agree to disagree. I would advise actually listening to how the scots feel. The scots are not over sentimental like the americans and canadians seem to be about scotland, i.e crying when listining to bagpipes or writing poems. I am not having a dig. But it is very obvious that the perceptions of scotland are completely differant between scots and non scots.

My dear friend for one proud scot that you pretend to be why then are you arboring the British flag on your profile.... and not the Scottish one?

LOA

I'm a scots nationalist, I didnt actually notice the union jack.
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glaswegian 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 22-Aug-2008, 07:10 PM)
LOA;

My Lady, let off the glaswegian I opened that topic to get some fruitful discussion not for some selfcentred cocky 25 year to insult people. Let the Topic die.



Camac.

why dont you write a soppy poem about it. I am starting to think that when you moved to canada the authorities maybe castrated you.
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 06:24 PM)
Anyway I dont want to sound like a broken record, so I will have to agree to disagree. I would advise actually listening to how the scots feel. The scots are not over sentimental like the americans and canadians seem to be about scotland, i.e crying when listining to bagpipes or writing poems. I am not having a dig. But it is very obvious that the perceptions of scotland are completely differant between scots and non scots.

Ahem . . .

I wonder if we could really listen to what this man is saying, without reacting to the idea that he is trying to take something precious away from us? A culture in a diaspora is a diaspora culture. It's selective and hybridized; it may have strong associations and attachment to features of the home culture over many years, but it is a new entity growing and changing its own way. In his own considered understanding, and having grown up on the turf, our glaswegian friend is completely correct in making the distinction. I wonder if some are taking the thought of being a "diaspora descendant" as being regarded by the homeland in some way inferior, or watered down, or somehow not authentic. It isn't -- it's a proud new thing in itself.

The man has said he agrees to disagree, and there's no better than that for laying it down. It would only smooth the discussion to lose the digs at either manhood or poetry, but that's for you men to take on -- I only suggest.
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CelticRadio 
Posted: 22-Aug-2008, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 08:19 PM)
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why dont you write a soppy poem about it. I am starting to think that when you moved to canada the authorities maybe castrated you.

glaswegian,

This is a clear violation of the terms of service. Not only that, it is a very rude comment to make when people are in a discussion.

If that is all you can muster up, then perhaps this forum is not for you.


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JACOBITE 
Posted: 23-Aug-2008, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE (glaswegian @ 22-Aug-2008, 11:24 PM)
Coming from the westcoast of scotland, we have hundreds of thousands of scots whos' ancestors were irish. While a lot of them are proud of this fact, I have never met a scotsman who described himself as irish. to call oneselve irish because they had irish ancestors 2 -3 generations ago would be even more ridculous.


Are you being serious with that statement ????? I to come from Glasgow and there are plenty of Scots born and bred who would look to Ireland as their country.You only have to look at a Celtic match to see that.Where a proportion of their fans would choose Ireland over Scotland.

And before anyone jumps in the other side can be even worse looking to England over Scotland.

And its no problem to get rid of the butchers apron as your flag and get our own flag on there.
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Camac
Posted: 23-Aug-2008, 08:35 AM
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Jacobite;

First I wish to apologize to all that I let my emotions get carried away I have no idea what came over me. If I in any way insulted anyone including glaswegian I ask forgiveness. As to your reference to the "butchers apron" I have never heard the Jack called that before but perhaps it is to harsh a term. The Saltire is Scotlands flag but please remember those men and women who perished in two world wars did so under the Jack and but not for those sacrifices the world would be a far darker place. Again my apologies to all.


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